Diskussion : The Box Speaker 18-500/8-A

klar bis 200 hz !! kein Ding

in dem Fall kommts auch nich auf die Größe drauf an, sondern wie sportlich die 21" sind ! also wie gut und stark der Antrieb ist, und dieser die Menbran im Griff hat!

und außerdem werden die knackigen Obertönen von Bass-schlägen eh mehr vom mittel und sogar Hochtöner wiedergegeben !!

wichtig is nur das alles impuls- und zeitlich zusammen spielt !! dann darf son Monster von 21" auch mal ruhig nen BISSEL höher arbeiten !!

und Impulse-probleme kann es eh schon geben wenn der Bass am Boden und die Tops auf 2m -2,5m überboden stehen !!
da bräuchteste im Nahfeld ne Zeitkorecktur und in der Ferne ging es auch ohne !!

hehehe also alle geht und nix gelingt
da soll einer was anderes sagen !!

wie viel mm² soll ich denn für die innenverkabelung nehmen??
reichen 2,5mm²?
und halt 1-1,5m lang damit ich den speaker auch mal wieder raus machen kann richtig so?

2,5mm² sollten reichen.

1m von mir aus, aber 1,5 sind zu viel. Wobei selbst 1m etwas arg viel ist, ich würde halt schauen, dass noch ca. 20 cm Kabel aus der Front raus schauen.
Dann kannst du das Chassis noch recht Bequem anklemmen und das Kabel scheppert nicht im Gehäuse rum.

Ich hab mal ne Frage an euch...
Ich hab meine beiden Pegel-Br's jetzt aner Proline 3000 hängen. Vorher liefen se an einer TA1400 zum ersten Mal. Ich habe jetzt ein paar mal relativ stark aufgedreht. Die Auslenkung und der Klang waren auch immer noch im vertretbaren Rahmen und es hat richtig gut gebummst, aber es stinkt jetzt auf einmal aus den Woofern, als wenn die Spulen feuer gefangen hätten und den ganzen Lack weggebrant hätten.
Ist das einfach zu viel Belastung für die, denn sie sind ja nur mit 500 RMS angegeben und vorher an der TA1400 hat gar nichts gestunken, oder ist das normal, wenn man die mal richtig mit Leistung befeuert und das legt sich mit der Zeit?!

Ich habe nämlich Angst, dass nach zwei Stunden einer solchen Belastung dann auf einmal meine Spulen dadrin die Biege machen.

MfG

Das zeigt, dass die Spule auf jeden Fall schonmal gut warm wird . Das stinkt aber zu Anfang immer so, weil sich dann Kleberreste u.s.w. unter der höheren Wärmeenergie lösen und komisch riechen . das riecht so leicht in Richtung angebranntes Plastik .

Sowohl bei meinen Kappa 15 LF, 18-500ern als auch bei den MBH's mit dem L18S800 von RCF hat's die ersten paar Härtetests etwas gestunken ...... . Also mach dir keine Sorgen, nur die Staubschutzkalotte sollte nicht heiß sein - maximalst etwas warm . Das ist schon ein Anzeichen dafür, dass man so langsam die Grenze erreicht hat .

Grüße - Yavem

Ich hätte da nochmal ne andere Frage:
hat wer zufälligerweise einen 18-500er rumfliegen, den er nicht braucht und der nat. funktionsfähig ist? Hätte mir man gleich vier bestellen sollen, bis Anfang Mai dauert das, bis eine neue Lieferung kommt
Hab auch in suche/biete gepostet, aber hier ist ja der Hauptthread zum Thomännchen...
Wär für jedes Angebot dankbar!

Achso, nochmal großes Lob an Yavem und co. an die tolle Entwicklungsaabeit hier, der Pegel-BR ist echt ne feine Sache!

Bilder vom fertigen! Sub folgen...demnächst

http://www.box.net/shared/aspe1e6m5b
http://www.box.net/shared/yxzk0mqnxd

Alles kla danke Yavem
Werde beim nächsten Test mal fühlen, was mit dem Dustcap so passiert...
Hat mich nämlich gewundert. Die TA1400 hatte ich im clipping und da sollns dann schon 450 RMS sein an 8 ohm... nix gestunken. Jetzt die Proline -> volles rohr am stinken!
Und das nich gerade wenig. Und der GEstank steht richtig im raum...
Naja ich werd nochma gucken jetzt...
Aber schonmal danke

MfG

Bei den T.amps sollen doch schon bei -3dB die Clip-LEDs anfangen zu leuchten oder nicht? Dann wären das mit den TA1400 ja etwas mehr als 200-250Watt gewesen. Der Sprung zur Proline ist da ja schon enorm.

Ok das würde dann eventuell schon einiges erklären. Dass bei 200 Watt die Spule noch nicht ausser Puste ist, ist vorstellbar... Wenn du Proline dann feuert, kommt man da schon eher hin.

HALLO
ich hab mal ne Frage:
Spielt der 18-500 in diesem Gehäuse?

Trapezform
ca. 145Liter Volumen
3 Reflexöffnungen ( 10cm Durchmesser und 2,5 cm tief

Ein paar Bilder:

Bild1
Bild2

Mfg
Maurice

Hi,

wenn due Volumenangabe stimmt und du die Rohre auf 17cm verlängerst kannst du den 18-500 in dieses Gehäuse einbauen . 2,5cm Rohrlänge sind zu wenig, das ergibt 70 Hz Tuning und solit wenig Tiefgang in Verbindung mit viel Dröhnbass .

Ist das Gehäuse denn halbwegs amtlich gefertigt ? Sieht mir nach 'ner Billigkiste aus, bei der einfach die Chinapappe rausgenommen wurde . Würde auch das total unsinnige Tuning dieser Bassreflexbox erklären ...
Grüße - Yavem

also schon recht stabil
der originaltreiber kostet 330€
eindeutig zu teuer

2 Bilder vom treiber
eins
zwei

Maurice

Soll ich alle 3Rohre verlängern oder ein Brett einsetzen?

Brett einsetzen wäre sicherlich besser, weil man da auch noch etwas mehr Portquerschnitt bekommt, aber dann musst du in das Brett ja Winkel sägen . Also sich als Trapez nach hinten hin verjüngend . kannst du das ?

Ich kann dir die Tuningfrequenz eines sich trapezförmig öffnenden Resonators berechnen .

Grüße - Yavem

also ich würd bei einem so kleine Gehäuse (ca 145 Liter) den Port im Querschnitt nich all zu sehr vergößern,
weil er da durch ja auch verlängert werden muß !!!
und da das Chassi schon ordentlich Volumen schluck und dann noch das Volumen vom BR Kanal
da bleibt ja nich viel übrig !!! da eig. die BR fläche schon nen Drittel Membranfläche sein sollte ! also sprich 433cm² und 35 cm lang !! das macht ja so schon über 15 Liter !!

lass ma lieber die Roher bei dem Duchmesser und mach sie ALLE 17 cm lang , das passt schon !!
auch wenn das bei hohem Pegel Ströhmungsverluste geben wird !!

hört mann abba dann bei lauter Musik nur wenn man datt Ohr direck rannhält !! und dann nich mehr

is abba alles noch besser als die Kohle für das teure Orginalchassi

Lieber 10l weniger Volumen als beim Portquerschnitt gespart . Das rechnet sich nicht ...

Das gibt bei höherem Pegel nicht nur Ströumungsgeräusche, der Resonator verliert irgendwann teilweise sein Wirkung als solcher und außerdem ist ein großer Port lauter . Lauter als die 10l weniger Volumen das Konstrukt untenrum insgesamt leiser machen ...

Grüße - Yavem

stimmt !!
GROSSE KLAPPE IS LAUTER

abba son Umbau is natürlich auch mit ARBEIT verbunden
und son Gehäuse umbaun is ja auch nich ruck zuck gemacht !!

wär natürlich professioneller

son kleiner Port hat abba auch die Vorzüge den Dröhnbass bei steigender Leistung zu senken , in dem er seine Funktion verliert und somit eher Richtung Geschlossene-Box geht !!

frage mich abba auch was sich dei sogenannte Edelschmiede Whearfdale mit diesen kleinen Röhrchen gedacht hat !! 70 Hz Tuning ????? watt soll datt ???!! und das bei nem 18"er mit 600 Watt *kopfkratz*

na egal !!!

gibt es eigentlich noch jemanden der den sub gebaut hat?

müßte ja eig genug Leute geben die mit dem Chassi gebaut haben, so schnell wie der ausverkauft war !!

ich hab den in ein kleineres Gehäuse gesteckt als das "Pegel"-gehäuse
und geht auch super

in welches gehäuse denn? in das von floh?

ca. 170 liter, Bassreflex 434cm2 x 29cm
ist 60x60x70cm groß , bei 15mm Wandstärke

geht ab ca 45Hz/-3dB , macht abba nen leichten Buckel, was bei ein oder zwei Sub-Betrieb nach meinem Geschmack besser rüber kommt, zB bei Pop-Musik

Ich hatte zwei Pegel-Br's gebaut, hab ich auf ner Seite vorher aber auch schon gepostet. Laufen jetzt aner Proline 3000 und machen gut Dampf! Bilder müssten hier auch schon sein im Thread

Hi.
Ich hab auch zwei von den Chassis.
Allerdings hab ich die in meine W-Bins gesteckt :).

ja stimmt. hab ich noch in erinnerung.
gitb es bei diesem thread noch was zu sagen?
ellenlang das ding.
aber toll. hab viel erfahrung gesammelt.

mfg

Es lässt sich einfach nur nochmal sagen, dass man für das Geld im Selbstbau wohl kaum was besseres finden wird meiner Meinung nach. Wer die Möglichkeit hat und im Selbstbau bewandert ist, sollte sich das Chassis zulegen!

Moin,

nur schade, das es bei Thomann nicht mehr auftaucht. Weiß vielleicht jemand mehr oder hat sich in letzter zeti per Mail informiert, ob der 18-500 in naher oder fernen Zukunft wieder lieferbar ist?

Gruß
Robert

http://www.thomann.de/de/the_box_speaker_185008a.htm
15.05.2010 laut der Seite? Oder verschiebt sich das immer wieder und ich habs nicht mitbekommen?

Hello everybody,

I registered to this forum because I found this thread. I don't understand germany so well so I have been reading this thread/forum through google translator, but sometimes the translation is very ambigious and I have hard time to understand it. I have not read the whole thread yet, but your projects (like Yaverm's) definitely seem interesting.

A week ago I decided that I sell my conventional BR hifi-subs and build two H-frame(=dipole) subs instead. The idea came from this article where the author tests 21" PD woofer in different cabinets and he liked dipole/u-frame chassis best for music in terms of "hifi reproduction": http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Serious-Sub.html . Based on the feedback in this thread, the 18-500 seemed to be a good price-value ratio, good craftmanship(?) and low distortion(?) woofer so I decided to go for 18-500s in this h-frame project (I will put 4 woofers per side, 8 woofers total = total cone are 1m2 )... I placed the order to Thomann just yesterday.

The h-frame subs will form a 2 metres tall "line array sub" and they will fit nicely with my DIY line array dipole main speakers which are also 2 metres tall.

Has there been published pictures of the backside of the 18-500? I would like to see the the whole magnet system and chassis from behind of the woofer. Is the chassis partly open under the spider? I think I see small ventilation holes in the chassis under the spider in Thomann's picture...

Regards,

Legis

backside pictures there

den 18/500 als Dipol , 4 pro seite , WOW

oha... 8 von den Dingern versuche ich mir gerade vorzustellen

würde ich auf jeden fall auch nehmen! 2 machen ja schon ziemlich gut Dampf an meiner Proline 3000

Big_Määääc schrieb:

backside pictures there den 18/500 als Dipol , 4 pro seite , WOW :hail

Thanks for the link. Cone's color differs from the Thomann's picture, or then the camera makes the cone to look lighter than it really is...

BassFeteschist=) schrieb:

oha... 8 von den Dingern versuche ich mir gerade vorzustellen würde ich auf jeden fall auch nehmen! 2 machen ja schon ziemlich gut Dampf an meiner Proline 3000.

I have two EAW CAZ1400 amplifiers for these subs :D! Luckily I don't have push the amps so hard as 8 woofers generate quite a pressure even at 1 watt. But honestly, upgrading my amps have crossed my mind...

That's certainly impressive. What kind of venue are you planning to use these on? 8 speakers do produce quite a lot of sound pressure, with proper amping probably sufficient for events exceeding 500 PAX, as a mono block or similar sub array with excessive amping you could probably go as far as 800, maybe even 1000 PAX (considering apropriate high/mid units, that is).

If you plan on using these subs for events of more than 200 people, I would strongly recommend to upgrade your amps as soon as you can afford to do so. A Proline 3000 for example would have a tremendous effect on your overall bass performance (especially thanks to its powerful condensators). It is a heavy amp, but one with an incredible bass performance for a low budget. The CAZ 1400 is not an amp I would recommend for subwoofers - you may not believe it, but you will feel the difference once you try hooking up your subs to an amp that has been designed with quality parts and bass performance in mind.

What kind of tops (high/mid units) do you intend to use and what kinds of events (especially in regard to the amount of people) do you expect to be using your system on?

XTJ7 schrieb:

That's certainly impressive. What kind of venue are you planning to use these on? 8 speakers do produce quite a lot of sound pressure, with proper amping probably sufficient for events exceeding 500 PAX, as a mono block or similar sub array with excessive amping you could probably go as far as 800, maybe even 1000 PAX (considering apropriate high/mid units, that is). If you plan on using these subs for events of more than 200 people, I would strongly recommend to upgrade your amps as soon as you can afford to do so. A Proline 3000 for example would have a tremendous effect on your overall bass performance (especially thanks to its powerful condensators). It is a heavy amp, but one with an incredible bass performance for a low budget. The CAZ 1400 is not an amp I would recommend for subwoofers - you may not believe it, but you will feel the difference once you try hooking up your subs to an amp that has been designed with quality parts and bass performance in mind. What kind of tops (high/mid units) do you intend to use and what kinds of events (especially in regard to the amount of people) do you expect to be using your system on?

Hi,

I knew somebody was going to ask this at some point :).

I intend to use these babies purely as a hifi/home theater subs, so no audience except my Frau (and sometimes neighbours ;)) . They are "bit" exaggerated for that purpose, but I thought it would not hurt either because 1) they were cheap and good value and 2) the lowest octave requires quite a lot of displacement in dipole speakers. I planned to use DCX2496 as a x-over and I'm also going to eq the room response to flat from 20Hz and up. I intend to cross them between 70 and 150 Hz, depending on the 18-500's sound quality in > 70Hz frequencies. What low-pass point would you recommend from the sound quality's point of view; what x-over point is too much, if any? (others may answer as well)

My main goal in the beginning was to get dipole-like "fast" bass (good attack and decay), that also extends to the lowest frequencies and to get that without distortion in all imaginable listening levels (in home enviroment). My previous subs (2pcs Peerless 12" XXLSs 75 litre BR @ 21Hz) were too small for the biggest transients and volumes that my line arrays handle with total ease.

Regarding T.amp Proline 3000, it is definitely an amp that I have been considering these last couple of days. If EAWs seem to lack punch and control, I definitely have to sell them and buy Proline. From the inside the CAZ1400 looks like Tapco Juice J1400, and they both come from same factory. I quess they are ok but can not be compared to Proline-series in any way.

I'm interested, as I don't know this pa-language; does PAX refer to number of participants in concert or something else?

Btw, has somebody done measurements on these subs for example with Holm Impulse, ARTA or similar loud speaker software?

-Legis

I'm interested, as I don't know this pa-language; does PAX refer to number of participants in concert or something else?

Yes, it refers to the amount of people that are expected at the concert/theater and so on. It means: persons approximately

Hey, thanks for your extensive response. Yes, that is certainly massive overkill for a home entertainment system. Nice way of spending your money I hope you do live in a house where you can actually use it at high levels, otherwise it'd be a waste

The 18-500 do have a powerful driver, but because it's so massive and the membrane is rather heavy they are not suited for a high crossover frequency. Depending on what kind of cabinet you're constructing, I would probably suggest something around 80 Hz, 100 at the very most.

Using 8 of these babies is certainly gonna do the job of fast bass, if you don't tune them too low, placing them in an array will help you to achieve the deep notes with power while still providing good kick. As you are planning to use the DCX2496 (which is a good choice, by the way) you may want to consider a two-way bass setup with possibly highly tuned 12" subs for kick between 80 and 200 Hz or something, just in case the 18-500s don't satisfy your need in regard to kick/attack, because that much of membrane area will certainly satisfy you with the lower tones. Just an idea, I haven't done something similar myself.

You will be having enough power for 8 of these in a home environment with one Proline 3000, in a real PA environment you may need 2 of these already, but twice the power is just a mere 3db gain which you will certainly never need in a home cinema, even if it may be as large as 200m².

PAX does indeed refer to the number of people in an event, "people approximately"

Please keep us posted about your progress. I am (and I'm sure others as well) very curious as to how it works out for you, as this is certainly one of the more unique setups to be seen in here.

Was meint ihr wohl, wie viele Leute man mit 4 Pegel-Br's beschallen kann und welche Lautstärken dabei rumkommen, wenn ich das ganze ane Proline 3000 hänge?!

MfG

XTJ7 schrieb:

Hey, thanks for your extensive response. Yes, that is certainly massive overkill for a home entertainment system. Nice way of spending your money I hope you do live in a house where you can actually use it at high levels, otherwise it'd be a waste The 18-500 do have a powerful driver, but because it's so massive and the membrane is rather heavy they are not suited for a high crossover frequency. Depending on what kind of cabinet you're constructing, I would probably suggest something around 80 Hz, 100 at the very most. Using 8 of these babies is certainly gonna do the job of fast bass, if you don't tune them too low, placing them in an array will help you to achieve the deep notes with power while still providing good kick. As you are planning to use the DCX2496 (which is a good choice, by the way) you may want to consider a two-way bass setup with possibly highly tuned 12" subs for kick between 80 and 200 Hz or something, just in case the 18-500s don't satisfy your need in regard to kick/attack, because that much of membrane area will certainly satisfy you with the lower tones. Just an idea, I haven't done something similar myself. You will be having enough power for 8 of these in a home environment with one Proline 3000, in a real PA environment you may need 2 of these already, but twice the power is just a mere 3db gain which you will certainly never need in a home cinema, even if it may be as large as 200m². PAX does indeed refer to the number of people in an event, "people approximately" Please keep us posted about your progress. I am (and I'm sure others as well) very curious as to how it works out for you, as this is certainly one of the more unique setups to be seen in here.

Woofers will be placed in a H-frame dipole as in the picture I quickly drew.



Subs are actually not that big; dipole (especially the h-frame and u-frame and ripole) is a great configuration as one can use huge drivers without the enclosure getting massive. The frame will be still big enought to support also the lowest octave (the path difference of frontal wave and back wave [symbol = D] is about 1240mm). I think the -3 dB point is somewhere between 20 - 30 hertz without eq. Here's some info about the h-frame: 1) http://www.linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm 2) http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/U_and_H_Frames.pdf

According Linkwitz's excel sheet (www.linkwitzlab.com/spl_max1.xls) that appriximates the maximum output in free space, the two arrays are able to provide 107 db @ 20 Hz. According to that same sheet this is about the same pressure that 1100cm2 woofer with 25mm xmax, two 1100cm2 woofers with 12,5mm xmax of four 1100cm2 woofers with 6,25mm xmax etc. etc., in a closed box could produce in free space. Pressures are calculated purely based on the xmax and cone area (Mms), it does not take the RMS power of the woofer into account. The max SPL is not usually RMS limited in the lowest frequencies anyway.

Eight woofers can produce head-exploding pressures in room (especially at 40hz and up! 140dB+ but not wth my current amplification though), so some of that recerve always gets wasted in home enviroment even with the maddest listener who listens with ear protection 80% of the time ;).

For hifi/home setups people usually build line array speakers and subs for the purpose of them being capable of playing effortlessly and without distortion at any possible listening levels that the listener is going to use. So the idea is more of a "the bigger the headroom = better". Without going deeper to the line array's physics, the great cone area is one of the many advantages of line array and gives better illusion of live performance, especially drums tend to sound very realistic. These oversized (= for home setup) speakers are being build, although the usual listening levels are just the basic "home listening levels" which are, even at the most, quite tiny compared to pa-spl.

I can certainly imagine that in PA people are more prone to think that any given speaker, which is not playing > 50% power, is a waste ;). It depend so much of the point of the view. In any case, I presume that we all agree that for the sub-bass the bigger the cone area = better

I will keep you updated how the project goes, hopefully with pictures.

-Legis


Ps. XTJ7 and else, could you summarize the highs and lows / pros and cons of the 18-500 for me? I have gotten some image through google tarnslate, but translation, in many cases, is hard to construe.

Haven't heard about that H-Frame Dipole before, but it looks interesting.

The main advantage is it's powerful 4" voice coil (24 N/A) that matches speakers that are usually sold for twice as much. The downside is probably it's limited Xmax of just 5.5mm and the power handling of max. 500 Watts (although Yavem said it did take about 1000 Watts during testing without major problems), but on the other side (as Yavem stated) you can get 2 for the price of 250 Euro - a single 18" speaker would need to make 13mm of movement to achieve the same level of air displacement (but you wouldn't find such an 18" speaker for 250 Euro).

Thus if you have the space to put 2 or more speakers, this one is really a good deal. In your case it doesn't seem to be an issue either way, as you've certainly gone nuts and decided to put 8 of these in your living room. Sound pressure is never gonna be an issue for you anymore, after you finish these babies.

In a BR cabinet Yavem compared it to an RCF L18S800 and said that the RCF was just slightly better while being more than twice as expensive.
Another "downside" are it's parameters that require larger cabinets than some other (more expensive) speakers.
The overall quality is described as very good, although according to Yavem the resonances are too big below 45 Hz and you risk running out of your Xmax and breaking the speaker (I guess this wouldn't be an issue though, as you would never go anywhere near the maximum with 8 of these. Furthermore you are not building a BR cabinet but a dipole, so it may be a different story after all).

For the sake of linearity in playback you can still use the DCX2496 in the end, so this will help you setting the subs up for your room.

It really is an interesting project and I think you chose a well suited driver, although I don't know anything about your dipole cabinets, yet I could imagine that to work as expected. You seem to know your stuff

XTJ7 schrieb:

H The overall quality is described as very good, although according to Yavem the resonances are too big below 45 Hz and you risk running out of your Xmax and breaking the speaker (I guess this wouldn't be an issue though, as you would never go anywhere near the maximum with 8 of these. Furthermore you are not building a BR cabinet but a dipole, so it may be a different story after all).

Thanks for the good summary!

What comes to Yavem's saying that the resonances get strong below 45Hz, what did he mean exactly? Where had he tuned the cabinet? Every woofer's excursion increases greatly below cabinet's tuning frequency as the "air spring" that resists the cone's movement disapperas from the inside of the cabinet and woofer acts more like a free air woofer.

If one wants to get deep bass from 18-500 in BR, one would have to tune the cabinet low, but it would decrease the maximum SPL in the upper bass area. And regardless the low tuning, one would not be able to drive the woofer with full power at the low freqs without exceeding the xmax. Xmax can be exceeded however it the output does not sound distorted, for example Beyma calculated the xmax (voice coil's lenght - air gap height)/2 + (air gai height / 3,5)...

Like this driver, the "true Xmax" would be just 4,5mm (= voice coil's lenght - air gap height), but the stated xmax is 8mm!: http://www.europe-au.../beyma/18P1000fe.pdf It depends on the driver how much it can be exceeded before the distortion is more than 10 % or so...


-Legis

The 45 Hz were referring to the lowest recommended tuning frequency of a BR cabinet, because of the speakers high resonance frequency and low Xmax.
I think that 8 cabinets in an array can easily make up for that flaw though.

Furthermore he wrote that he would instead recommend an Eminence Sigma Pro in case someone wants extrem low frequency bass. I'm not sure how that one compares to the 18-500 though.

XTJ7 schrieb:

The 45 Hz were referring to the lowest recommended tuning frequency of a BR cabinet, because of the speakers high resonance frequency and low Xmax. I think that 8 cabinets in an array can easily make up for that flaw though. Furthermore he wrote that he would instead recommend an Eminence Sigma Pro in case someone wants extrem low frequency bass. I'm not sure how that one compares to the 18-500 though.

I simulated the 18-500 and Eminence Sigma Pro 18 with WinISD. Both drivers are in 234 litre boxes and tuned to 20Hz.

Blue = 18-500 with original "safe" values (500w & 5,5mm xmax)
Yellow = 18-500 (650W & 6mm xmax, which are quite realistic)
Red = Eminence Sigma Pro 18 (650W & 6mm xmax)


Amplitude transfer function:


direct link: http://s5.directupload.net/images/100517/rmrgbbwl.jpg


Maximum SPL:


direct link: http://s7.directupload.net/images/100517/4txrp9nr.jpg

edit. images and links don't work correctly

change [url=e="XTJ7"] to [quote="XTJ7"]
Possibly need to tick the checkbox "HF-Code aktivieren"?

"url=e="XTJ7", where did that came from

Now they work ok. As you can see, there is not much difference between the 18-500 and the Sigma Pro 18 in terms of unequalized FR or max SPL according to WinISD.

Btw. is the cone area really that big that WinISD estimates? I get every time 1260 - 1288cm2, which is over like 120-140cm2 more than for example in Sigma Pro 18 of Fane Colossus XB. That's quite much, especially if you are buying eight woofers like me. By getting eight 18-500 you get extra cone area of 1000cm2+ which equals almost an extra 18 inch woofer, hah

I might be mistaken there, but Yavem mentioned that it's somewhere close to 21".
I'm not sure though

Indeed, the simulation looks quite alike. But I can't tell how that will be in a real life situation It does look good so far, so it's supposed to work as expected. Let's hope for the best!

Check these out:

1) PSSO 18ND-500 (http://cgi.ebay.de/P...&hash=item53dd171082):

https://www.lautspre...8nd-500_100437_2.jpg

2) Thomann 18-500:



The basket looks almost identical. PSSO and 18-500 might come from the same factory?

I saw that you have discussed this like 5 pages backwards.

Has anybody tested these PSSO drivers???

The situation is that Thomann has not got the 18-500 yet and the estimated time of arrival is unknow for the drivers. These I could have straight from the shelf, and yes, their t&h parametres look better than 18-500's.


-Legis

According to my knowledge nobody has tested the PSSO Drivers yet.

I wouldn´t believe in the parameters of the PSSO at all, many manufacturers are using parameters which fit with costumers wishes, but not with reality.
(I don´t know if this sentence makes sence in English, im better in talking than in writing )

Plans have changed.

The delivery time of the 18-500s got delayed until 30.6 (!) and I decided to cancel the deal. I chose to get these instead. PD186s seemed like a good option, and I could still afford them barely ;).

I might still contribute some updates to the forum regarding the (slightly changed) project, if somebody is interested :). Not to this thread though.


-Legis

We're always interested in new projects
Especially big projects like yours

I guess the PD186s will do a very good job producing body-shaking bass

Hopefully you will take some pictures when you build them up

I made a thread regarding these u-frame line array subs in the DIY section: http://www.hifi-foru...m_id=159&thread=5816