WORLDS BEST FRONT END : DCS – NOW IN INDIA

Manek

Ampnut, is it a foot stomp that you hear ?

Why not come over to my place for a listen ?

Righty o !

Weekend ok ?

Manek

Have pm ed you...

Manek schrieb:

Ampnut, is it a foot stomp that you hear ? Manek

I am 'answering' out of turn - sorry.

However, I am not so sure if it is a 'foot stomp'

It sure is a 'frequency
below 35 hertz - very faint in my place & rather pronounced in AN's place.

Bhagwan sir !

You are never out of turn and your views are extremely welcome.


Its interesting that you didn't hear it as a foot stomp but as something else 35hz and under.
that should give us an idea on the resolving abilities of a system of the same material can be totally different.


What we probably have heard is a low note but what exactly is it ? If this song is indeed "A capella" then are we hearing some recording artifact/background noise that engineers missed out on ?
Must do some more investigatin
g.....

Manek schrieb:

Must do some more investigatin g.....

I recommend that this be listened to on a set of headphones.
There the resolution is top notch - imho.

I too am keen to know what that sound is on the Manger Test Disc - Livingstone Taylor. The track number eludes me - right now.

Manek schrieb:

Bhagwan sir ! You are never out of turn and your views are extremely welcome. Its interesting that you didn't hear it as a foot stomp but as something else 35hz and under. that should give us an idea on the resolving abilities of a system of the same material can be totally different. What we probably have heard is a low note but what exactly is it ? If this song is indeed "A capella" then are we hearing some recording artifact/background noise that engineers missed out on ? Must do some more investigatin g.....

Yes it could be a foot stomp. It sure does not sound like any bass instrument that I am familiar with. It has a very sharp decay. It is there faintly in the background nudging the song along rather than providing a bass rhythm like a bass instrument.

I am frankly not very sure about the frequenzy of this sound though.

I would concur with Bhagwan69.

Its distinct but subtle.

IMHO, it would require a REALLY Large Foot to generate a 35 Hz or whatever footstomp !

Maybe that is what its supposed to REPRESENT ?

Headphones....I will check .......


Manek

Something i found on the web http://www.lautsprec...ifi/zyklop_tl_en.htm. I have read that this actually goes down till 22 Hz

.... One interesting example is "Grandma's Hands" by Livingston Taylor. Since this is an acapella there shouldn't be much happening below 100 Hz. Far from it! Taylor is beating the time with his foot. Apparently the troupe is performing on a wooden stage or platform, thus creating a gigantic soundboard that resonates in time. This may be noticed only on some speakers that go down to 30 Hz. . ...

Arj schrieb:

Something i found on the web http://www.lautsprec...ifi/zyklop_tl_en.htm. I have read that this actually goes down till 22 Hz .... One interesting example is "Grandma's Hands" by Livingston Taylor. Since this is an acapella there shouldn't be much happening below 100 Hz. Far from it! Taylor is beating the time with his foot. Apparently the troupe is performing on a wooden stage or platform, thus creating a gigantic soundboard that resonates in time. [b]This may be noticed only on some speakers that go down to 30 Hz.[/b] . ...

super work - well done - I am impressed !! truly..

sir you can thank Larry Page and Sergey Brin for that! i just used their invention with "Livingston Taylor Grandmas hands Bass"
but this has been a learning experience and manek was right about it not possible unless they were on a giant wooden board with a cavity..I guess that is exactly the wooden floor simulated !

and AN..this simply has to be the track to test low bass articulation to some extent !

And the location of the microphone was such that while it did not capture the foot taps but it caught the resultant sound of the wooden cavity .

Abhi

Masing the sharp tap of the foot could have been done with padding under the foot as a damper or some other method.

Good to know there are as few gems hidden in these tracks :-)
Their discovery is so exciting.

Manek

Hi

Heard grandma multiple times tonight on headphones on both the valve amp and the diy amp.


From what I hear from both amps, there is some tapping but I can't say its a foot tap. Can't describe it but there is a trace of something there.

Manek schrieb:

Hi Heard grandma multiple times tonight on headphones on both the valve amp and the diy amp. From what I hear from both amps, there is some tapping but I can't say its a foot tap. Can't describe it but there is a trace of something there.

Sir, now please do visit AN's house & listen to the same song there & let me know what you hear - would be much appreciated.

That I do intend to sir !

Manek

Manek schrieb:

That I do intend to sir ! Manek

Saturday is 'audio day' !

4 auditions are lined up - starts @ AN's place @ 1000 hours - followed by lunch & then to my place - tea @ 'switch it on' house - for his set up audition & then we finish with dinner @ sbfx's place.

So lots of 'audio' on Saturday.
You are welcome to join us - I take the liberty to invite our 'moderator' hope no one objects.

If any one else wishes to come along - please do pm me - or AN to fix up.

It will be nice to meet everyone.

Cheers !!

Bhagwan

Dear moderator can't make it at 10 am as his dearer better half has to be helped out with.

Could reach post 11 am but will have to leave post lunch on count of work commitments.


Manek

Manek, Most welcome at 11 am too. Infact I expect the guys will be hear till 1 pm, so you are welcome anytime till 1 pm.

However, if you get here too close to 1 pm, you will have to decide between music and lunch !

You are welcome to join us - I take the liberty to invite our 'moderator' hope no one objects. If any one else wishes to come along - please do pm me - or AN to fix up. It will be nice to meet everyone.

Absolutely... All welcome, but request prior info for my place since I am serving lunch

Tks

Will keep in touch


Manek

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Manek schrieb: That I do intend to sir ! Manek Saturday is 'audio day' ! 4 auditions are lined up - starts @ AN's place @ 1000 hours - followed by lunch & then to my place - tea @ 'switch it on' house - for his set up audition & then we finish with dinner @ sbfx's place. So lots of 'audio' on Saturday. You are welcome to join us - I take the liberty to invite our 'moderator' hope no one objects. If any one else wishes to come along - please do pm me - or AN to fix up. It will be nice to meet everyone. Cheers !! :prost

Man, this is when I wished I still lived in BOM!!
What a bonanza for you fellows ......
Enjoy! let us know what your individual impressions are....

Hi

Let me pls state that amp nut was a superb host.

Food was deeeelicious, the beer refreshing, the system and music to match.

Thank you sir !


Did hear the grandma song. It was a bass guitar, nor foot stomping clearly. It was another bass drum track being played. Low in freq but very audible. So much for that song being "a capella" !


What a revelation indeeed !

Manek

Manek schrieb:

Hi Let me pls state that amp nut was a superb host. Food was deeeelicious, the beer refreshing, the system and music to match. Thank you sir ! Did hear the grandma song. It was a bass guitar, nor foot stomping clearly. It was another bass drum track being played. Low in freq but very audible. So much for that song being "a capella" ! What a revelation indeeed ! Manek

There go all theories !!
AN, this proves your system is today more resolving than what many reviewers have
Manek..weeks of mystery put to rest !! or is there another twist in the tale

Manek schrieb:

Let me pls state that amp nut was a superb host. Food was deeeelicious, the beer refreshing, the system and music to match. Thank you sir ! Manek

It was a lovely 'audio filled' Saturday.

AN - as stated above is a 'perfect' host. I loved those dosa's !! Excellent.

The music too was 'refreshing'

We finished - post lunch - moved over to my place;

'deaf' joined us.
'manek' could not come.
AN left in a bit.
4 of us had an extended audio session till 1900 hours.
2 guests left - deaf & I 're-positioned' the speakers !

I was really exhausted - by the end of it.
My stands to move - is a 'physical ordeal' !! 83 kgs each....

bhagwan69 schrieb:

My stands ... 83 kgs each.... :{

Thanks to Manek and Bhagwan69 for your kind words. It was only a simple meal... Your company was what made the afternoon special, interactive & fun !

(As far as Dosas go, Siva's wife makes SUPERB Dosas... Ummmm ! )

Arj Said:

AN, this proves your system is todays more resolving than what many reviewers have

Thanks for the , Arj, but my system is currently a bit too bass heavy to be a good review tool, and Im working on it.....

Most of my attempts to lean the Bass (by changing the CD player, or Pre ) end up (to my ears) resulting in compromises in other aspects... I find those compromises more difficult to live with than the excess bass.

Its like a lovely system with little bass, only, in my case its the opposite....

For me, Saturday was a HUGE THRILL, listning to ( rather briefly) Bhagwan69's system.

Bhagwan69, your set up has been TRANSFORMED in its new Avataar.

Even though I heard it only for a few minutes, I knew right from the first 5 seconds that it WAS SOMETHING SPECIAL ... like Never before at your place.

For the first time in the few years I have know you and heard your various setups, I WAS ABSOLUTELY THRILLED.

My preliminary opinion was that your system was the MOST TRANSPARENT, RESOLVING, OPEN that I have EVER heard. Equally importantly, it still remains musical, and NOT clinical, At All.

I just did not have the time to sit and give it an extended listen, but Bhagwan69 has promised me an extended listen, soon.

I RARELY go Ga Ga about systems and feel this way, about some aspects of a system, maybe once in a couple of years. This was one of those times.

Manek, do visit. You missed something Very Special on Saturday.

Would also urge all others forum members to listen to Bhagwan69's current setup. Its simply Breathtakingly Transparent, resolving and open. Puts paid my doubts on HDD playback, too.

CONGRATS Bhagwan69

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Even though I heard it only for a few minutes, I knew right from the first 5 seconds that it WAS SOMETHING SPECIAL ... like Never before at your place. For the first time in the few years I have know you and heard your various setups, I WAS ABSOLUTELY THRILLED. My preliminary opinion was that your system was the MOST TRANSPARENT, RESOLVING, OPEN that I have EVER heard. Equally importantly, it still remains musical, and NOT clinical, At All.

Thank You - AN -

I have Mr. Shirke & Mr. Jay for this.
The Amps are from Cadence & Jay was most kind to have 'lent' his top of the line electronics to me;

The set up - given the room constraints - speaker position etc. etc. does play well. I too am happy, specially after what was done on Saturday evening by Deaf & then by me on Sunday in the morning.

Any / All forum members are most welcome for a listen..
It shall be a pleasure to host anyone..

I look forward to this;;

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Would also urge all others forum members to listen to Bhagwan69's current setup. Its simply Breathtakingly Transparent, resolving and open. Puts paid my doubts on HDD playback, too.

HDD is here & will only improve;
Hence my Meridian is for sale - on another post on our forum.

There surely is no differance between CD & HDD - to my ears at least. Now MSB from our forum has suggested that I shift to Windows 7 & J River - will try it soon - when sbfx helps me with the install - my computer skills are a little left to be desired...

All are welcome !

Bhagwan,

For me Win7 has been a huge improvement over XP and I strongly urge you to try it. Apparently Vista / Win7 have a better way of handling audio through WASAPI.

I have also downloaded Songbird. www.getsongbird.com. Open source media player from the developers of Firefox. Supposedly the best UI. It has WASAPI support and I will try it today.

With regards to HDD playback, you are 100% correct. CD is history in my books and I would not spend Rs. 5000 on a CD player today.

Thanks for pushing me into HDD!

More on WASAPI for those interested:

http://en.wikipedia....o_stack_architecture
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd371455%28VS.85%29.aspx

I will second J River. I find the interface far better to use/control than Foobar.

Shahrukh schrieb:

I will second J River. I find the interface far better to use/control than Foobar.

sure;

how is the sq ?

Frankly, I haven't found much of a difference. But please understand that my system isn't as resolving. MSB's take on this would carry more weight.

My opinion is purely based on interface/usability.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Thanks for the , Arj, but my system is currently a bit too bass heavy to be a good review tool, and Im working on it.....

AN, am sure you have thought of/tried it but if have you been able to isolate the frequency range where you have this bass heaviness?
From my (very limited+ Elementary) experience the humps in the 45-60 hz are purely due to room dimensions and changing components will not help.
The only option is Bass traps..and if still not solved fully you may have to do some kind eq

bhagwan69 schrieb:

It was a lovely 'audio filled' Saturday. AN - as stated above is a 'perfect' host. I loved those dosa's !! Excellent. The music too was 'refreshing' We finished - post lunch - moved over to my place; 'deaf' joined us. 'manek' could not come. AN left in a bit. 4 of us had an extended audio session till 1900 hours. 2 guests left - deaf & I 're-positioned' the speakers ! I was really exhausted - by the end of it. My stands to move - is a 'physical ordeal' !! 83 kgs each.... :{

great to hear..especially to know about the benefits the above labour has gained

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Bhagwan69, your set up has been TRANSFORMED in its new Avataar. I knew right from the first 5 seconds that it WAS SOMETHING SPECIAL ... like Never before at your place. For the first time in the few years I have know you and heard your various setups, I WAS ABSOLUTELY THRILLED.

Sir,
SACD77 - 'S.D.' from our forum - some one that is on an audio sabaticle for the past 3 years - was also present & I just got off the phone with him & he did not like the set up - at all. Well that is what he said.

So I guess, there are all kinds of persons that have different opinion & their likes & dislikes may vary - just wanted to state an observation.

I personally too am rather satisfied with what I have heard @ home...

Today i heard Grandmas hands with a Digital equaliser (Behringer DEQX2496) connected to my transport (via optical )

Surprisingly there is a very strong output which seems to peak between 20-25 Hz and then falls down by around 40 Hz (I can hear it very faintly if I am near the speaker). since the display shows only starting at 20..it appears there is some energy below it as well !

Arj schrieb:

Today i heard Grandmas hands with a Digital equaliser (Behringer DEQX2496) connected to my transport (via optical ) Surprisingly there is a very strong output which seems to peak between 20-25 Hz and then falls down by around 40 Hz (I can hear it very faintly if I am near the speaker). since the display shows only starting at 20..it appears there is some energy below it as well !

I can hear the Bass very very distinctly and clearly on this track even at very low volume.

msb1 schrieb:

Arj schrieb: Today i heard Grandmas hands with a Digital equaliser (Behringer DEQX2496) connected to my transport (via optical ) Surprisingly there is a very strong output which seems to peak between 20-25 Hz and then falls down by around 40 Hz (I can hear it very faintly if I am near the speaker). since the display shows only starting at 20..it appears there is some energy below it as well ! I can hear the Bass very very distinctly and clearly on this track even at very low volume.

Hi MSB !

I shall be @ your place on the 28th, so I would like to hear this track over a SM & experience it for myself....

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Hi MSB ! I shall be @ your place on the 28th, so I would like to heard this track over a SM & experience it for myself.... 8)

Looking forward to your visit sir!

Do listen to Eric Clapton Unplugged.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eric_Clapton_Unplugged.jpg
this also has the same foot stomping +Drums in the 20-30 hz range which make the music sound very different to the way I have usually heard it.
especially track nos 3/12/13

..and i always thought this was a simple accoustic Music

Arj schrieb:

Today i heard Grandmas hands with a Digital equaliser (Behringer DEQX2496) connected to my transport (via optical ) Surprisingly there is a very strong output which seems to peak between 20-25 Hz and then falls down by around 40 Hz (I can hear it very faintly if I am near the speaker). since the display shows only starting at 20..it appears there is some energy below it as well !

Hey Arj, can your stand-mount Merlin bookshelfs even go down to 20-25Hz that you can hear the strong bass @ that freq?? Does you room even support 20-25Hz?? OR, are you running a subwoofer as well to augment the lowest octave??

bombaywalla schrieb:

Arj schrieb: Today i heard Grandmas hands with a Digital equaliser (Behringer DEQX2496) connected to my transport (via optical ) Surprisingly there is a very strong output which seems to peak between 20-25 Hz and then falls down by around 40 Hz (I can hear it very faintly if I am near the speaker). since the display shows only starting at 20..it appears there is some energy below it as well ! Hey Arj, can your stand-mount Merlin bookshelfs even go down to 20-25Hz that you can hear the strong bass @ that freq?? Does you room even support 20-25Hz?? OR, are you running a subwoofer as well to augment the lowest octave??

Looks like you have missed some of the recent posts by Arj.
He is got twin RELs .

Thanks abhi ..:) and my room seems to support 18hz
B'walla we had an interesting thread going Here

Does you room even support 20-25Hz??

my room seems to support 18hz

I really dont know what to make of these 2 statements,
but since the topic has been discussed at length in the recent past, I will let it pass

Arj said :

Do listen to Eric Clapton Unplugged. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eric_Clapton_Unplugged.jpg this also has the same foot stomping +Drums in the 20-30 hz range which make the music sound very different to the way I have usually heard it. especially track nos 3/12/13 ..and i always thought this was a simple accoustic Music

Thanks for that pointer, Arj.

I (re) heard it today and was Surprised at the Very Strong LF.. hardly subtle like in "Gandma's hands."

Infact I best liked the relatively more subtle LF in track 4 " Tears In Heaven" ... one of my fav tracks, and a real tear jerker with Clapton singing it to his son, who died as a toddler...