Prices of Plinius products 300% more than the distributor price

rockamedi schrieb:

I thought you all would understand deutsch..I mean German. :prost

Now, can you please translate your other 2 posts in German?

rockamedi schrieb:

First post word to word almost : This is inappropriate!! They must inform us, whom you only we can be accepted truth then are. Why do you take this initiative, in order to uncover bright truth? You are any God even accepted. They behave themselves like a donkey. Greeting Second post again word to word : Ensure much.It's, that, over over German friends to come are general not also.

Now translate this into English

abhi.pani schrieb:

rockamedi schrieb: First post word to word almost : This is inappropriate!! They must inform us, whom you only we can be accepted truth then are. Why do you take this initiative, in order to uncover bright truth? You are any God even accepted. They behave themselves like a donkey. Greeting Second post again word to word : Ensure much.It's, that, over over German friends to come are general not also. Now translate this into English :L

Word for word, the translation in English is still not meaningful enough to be understood. Anyways, forget it.

Jeeves schrieb:

I think this should be moved to off topic as there is no validity here.

Very much valid here. Plinius makes products for Stereo.

Sir, what you are doing is great 'fun' for us, however, not done in the right spirit. It is detremental to the 'health' of the 'Audio Trade' in our small but growing market.

Thanks,

BHAGWAN


'health' of the audio trade? hmmmm.. well the old saying does say health is 'wealth'... assuming dd's right and hugh markups are the norm across dealers... no offence meant to you prithvi or any dealer in particular

a question dd. if 2 lac is the distributor price would they be willing to sell to end consumers (any distributor for that matter) if we approach them directly? something on the lines of buying from a wholesaler? or would that be killing the dealer's trade?

stevieboy schrieb:

a question dd. if 2 lac is the distributor price would they be willing to sell to end consumers (any distributor for that matter) if we approach them directly? something on the lines of buying from a wholesaler? or would that be killing the dealer's trade?

naughty boy !

Please can you help with the prices of other brands too DD, I'm interested in knowing the FOB for JM Labs Alto I would really appreciate it.


Regards,

Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

Please can you help with the prices of other brands too DD, I'm interested in knowing the FOB for JM Labs Alto I would really appreciate it. Regards, Satyam.

I don't have it.

stevieboy schrieb:

a question dd. if 2 lac is the distributor price would they be willing to sell to end consumers (any distributor for that matter) if we approach them directly? something on the lines of buying from a wholesaler? or would that be killing the dealer's trade?

Did you mean Distributor would be willing to give you at the price they get it for or you mean Manufacturer would give you (end customer) at the distri price?

A Dristributor can certainly give a much better price for the Plinius (discussion in this thread). As I said, 100% mark-up should cover for duties, substantial margins, etc. That makes a product like the SA-Ref available to end customers for 4 lakhs, which actually costs about 1.9 lakhs to the distributor.

Please can you help with the prices of other brands too DD, I'm interested in knowing the FOB for JM Labs Alto I would really appreciate it. Satyam.

Go with a rule of thumb that the disty price will be 50% of the retail price for most good brands.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Go with a rule of thumb that the disty price will be 50% of the retail price for most good brands.

Unless of course you come across a dealer like Absolute Phase who charge additional premium for ZERO infrastructure and after sales & warranty support. In such cases, the disti price would be about 25% (or below) of the retail price, like in the case of the Plinius products here.

Did you mean Distributor would be willing to give you at the price they get it for or you mean Manufacturer would give you (end customer) at the distri price?

i meant distributor giving it to me with their relevant mark up added which would still less than retail price.

Daredevil said: Unless of course you come across a dealer like Absolute Phase who charge additional premium for ZERO infrastructure and after sales & warranty support. In such cases, the disti price would be about 25% (or below) of the retail price, like in the case of the Plinius products here.

Hi DD,

That was un-necessary.

You have ventilated that point more than once. We all have read it.. over & over & over again.

Keep Personal vendettata out of this otherwise friendly forum.

The FACT is that the retail price offered to Indian Consumers is On Par with the Retail price offered to American consumers ( US $ 15 K )..... that too, AFTER paying 50% import duty + Freight .

This is because Plinus Offers its dealers that much margin. If you have a problem about this ( Huge OFFICIAL Disty mark up ), either take it up with Plinus, or simply dont buy the product.

Can we close this chapter of vendetta, PLEASE ?

stevieboy said

i meant distributor giving it to me with their relevant mark up added which would still less than retail price.

ANY distributor who would underquote his own dealer, is neither professional nor ethical... and you could be his next victum ...

hmmm that's what i thought. wishful hopeful thinking. sigh

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Hi DD, That was un-necessary. You have ventilated that point more than once. We all have read it.. over & over & over again. Keep Personal vendettata out of this otherwise friendly forum. The FACT is that the retail price offered to Indian Consumers is On Par with the Retail price offered to American consumers ( US $ 15 K )..... that too, AFTER paying 50% import duty + Freight . This is because Plinus Offers its dealers that much margin. If you have a problem about this ( Huge OFFICIAL Disty mark up ), either take it up with Plinus, or simply dont buy the product. Can we close this chapter of vendetta, PLEASE ? :(

Your perception. Not necessarily shared by everyone else on the forum. Can you site an example of personal vendetta?

Do you mean to say that the Indian distributors arrive at the retail price in India by calculating the US or Europe retail price (whichever is higher), irrespective of the difference in the quality of the infrastructure?

Do you know that the US and Europe retail prices are higher because the infrastructure expenses are more and the labour is expensive too? We don't even have a basic showroom and a service center for Plinius by the dealer; forget about the world class infrastructure in US and Europe. What the heck is this premium for even if it were the same as in US and Europe? Customers here pay the premium while buying and also spend on their own to get after sales support even during the warranty. Where does the premium go then if not a portion of that is invested for the benefit of the customers? Isn't the entire premium pocketed by the local dealer or the distributor? Enough of justifications for the price comparable to US and Europe. If we compare that, let's also compare the infrastructure and after sales support with US and Europe. Where is it in Absolute Phase??

Enough of justifications for the price comparable to US and Europe. If we compare that, let's also compare the infrastructure and after sales support with US and Europe. Where is it in Absolute Phase??

Or for that matter 95% of the dealers dont have it. Thats why we immediately panic when our system goes wrong.
That is also one of the reason we have a lot of respect for people like Viren and Siva, who are atleast "genuinely" available when their customers are in trouble.

Hi DD.

The good thing you have done with this debate is bringing out the pricing and distribution structure in the business out in the open. This is something many of us would not have been aware of.

The "Not so good thing" you have done is target specifically Plinius/AP/Prithvi. this has given rise to the impression that you have a personal vendetta and this feeling will only serve to drive a nice discussion down a drain with an impact on your credibility.


Looking at pricing there are two pricing strategeis anyone can adopt.

1. low margin/High volume. :In fast moving products you will fix a margin based on, distributer cost of product, markups, freight/handling/inventory cost, cost of capital, obsolescence etc and then price it. focus is on providing the best possible price to increase volumes.

(BTW cost of capital is not such a small amount. it is his money which is stuck till the product sells..)

2. High margin/low sales. typically '2-10' times the margin as above, idea being to sell to a few at a margin so that revenue is equivalent to 4-10 sales of the first kind. typcally done for luxury products etc where you are providing value added services like equipment matching/sales/home demos and help in setup. (May or may not include all of the above).
in the end it is focused on ability of the customer to pay rather than cost..its a different paradigm as sales qty is smqll but revenue high.

Now it is legitimate that the seller choose any of the above process to achieve his end objective..which is the same - make money and at the same time ensure continuity of business.

In case he does he does not meet either of the two, he will fail and not last more than a year (maybe more)

The consumer these days has enough information on prices and warranty from the net.This forum iteslf being just an example. so anyone sho still chooses to walk into pricing 2 and later feels cheated actually deserves it. You can always get a better deal either via ebay/audiogon or internet dealers even with freight and customs taken into account.
Infact in some cases even flying to Singapore/dubai/Hong kong to buy will still be price effective.

If a dealer chooses pricing 2 where the product does not warrant it, he is only going to either lose his business to other sellers (above) who may have a better model (Maybe you could be one offering ti since you have so much inside dope)
OR
drive customers to other products/marques. either way he prices himself out of the market.

Any comments on adding to the above to enhance this discussion ?

Or for that matter 95% of the dealers dont have it. Thats why we immediately panic when our system goes wrong. That is also one of the reason we have a lot of respect for people like Viren and Siva, who are atleast "genuinely" available when their customers are in trouble.

very true. forget after sales support. most guys dont even support u during the damn sale! and i'm talking about true blue so called audiphile brand stockists. prithvi though does seem to be a guy who's more than willing to have you over for an audition and let you listen to stuff. will see it first hand when i visit him sometime next week.

and like arj says dealers are certainly losing customers to other sources. whats amusing is that then these same dealers cry about support from the audiophile community and cite a lack of this and that which is preventing them offering a good experience/deal. grow up i say

Arj schrieb:

Hi DD. The good thing you have done with this debate is bringing out the pricing and distribution structure in the business out in the open. This is something many of us would not have been aware of. The "Not so good thing" you have done is target specifically Plinius/AP/Prithvi. this has given rise to the impression that you have a personal vendetta and this feeling will only serve to drive a nice discussion down a drain with an impact on your credibility. Looking at pricing there are two pricing strategeis anyone can adopt. 1. low margin/High volume. :In fast moving products you will fix a margin based on, distributer cost of product, markups, freight/handling/inventory cost, cost of capital, obsolescence etc and then price it. focus is on providing the best possible price to increase volumes. (BTW cost of capital is not such a small amount. it is his money which is stuck till the product sells..) 2. High margin/low sales. typically '2-10' times the margin as above, idea being to sell to a few at a margin so that revenue is equivalent to 4-10 sales of the first kind. typcally done for luxury products etc where you are providing value added services like equipment matching/sales/home demos and help in setup. (May or may not include all of the above). in the end it is focused on ability of the customer to pay rather than cost..its a different paradigm as sales qty is smqll but revenue high. Now it is legitimate that the seller choose any of the above process to achieve his end objective..which is the same - make money and at the same time ensure continuity of business. In case he does he does not meet either of the two, he will fail and not last more than a year (maybe more) The consumer these days has enough information on prices and warranty from the net.This forum iteslf being just an example. so anyone sho still chooses to walk into pricing 2 and later feels cheated actually deserves it. You can always get a better deal either via ebay/audiogon or internet dealers even with freight and customs taken into account. Infact in some cases even flying to Singapore/dubai/Hong kong to buy will still be price effective. If a dealer chooses pricing 2 where the product does not warrant it, he is only going to either lose his business to other sellers (above) who may have a better model (Maybe you could be one offering ti since you have so much inside dope) OR drive customers to other products/marques. either way he prices himself out of the market. Any comments on adding to the above to enhance this discussion ?

What seems a personal vendetta is my experience of being cheated by AP, which I had mentioned in my first post few months back. If any other dealer cheats me, I will post against that too.

Lot of folks in this very forum asked me for proof about how AP cheats its customers. My previous post about the lack of showroom and after sales service support was one instance. The ridiculous pricing of Plinius products is another instance.

Where have I attacked a person by the way? If I am questioning the lack of transparency and poor customer service of a particular dealer, why is it considered a personal vendetta? Why can't this be considered as my dealer rating of AP and the reasons/justifications for my rating?

Folks are willing to question my credibility for my posts; whereas OK with Absolute Phase not providing transparency of after sales support and logic behind exorbitant pricing despite being a member of this forum. Isn't that a question mark on the credibility? Can we use the same measuring scale for all?

All the PMs I get indicates how frustrated customers are with these kind of dealers but are afraid to come out in open and speak in this forum as their identity is known.

http://www.parivartan.com/

Read this. We should similarly hold the dealers and distributors accountable for giving us the quality of infrastructure and service that we are paying for.

Unfortunalely, we are used to being cheated as we have stopped questioning and demanding accountability. On the contrary, we are considered to loose our credibility if we question what we are paying for!! Our Philosophy is either buy forcibly (even if you know you are being cheated) or don't buy if you don't like being cheated; but don't question the person who cheats. Amazing philosophy!!!

In the end it is economics..if people feel something is priced too high from percieved value then they will not buy it unless they need to so badly as to pay that price..and if they do, they do it because the value they see in the prduct is worth the price and not worth the price of obtaining it from somewhere else

Unfortunalely, we are used to being cheated as we have stopped questioning and demanding accountability. On the contrary, we are considered to loose our credibility if we question what we are paying for!! Our Philosophy is either buy forcibly (even if you know you are being cheated) or don't buy if you don't like being cheated; but don't question the person who cheats. Amazing philosophy!!!

Not so sure about that.. in my case I am perfectly willing to get it from someplace else or not get it at all.. but frankly I do not know you and have not met you and do not know what has really happened..how can I even in the best of faith trust you ? to me and everyone else, you are someone called Dare Devil who has more than 100 posts and almost every post in the past has been against AP or Prithvi !!! look at it from the forum members viewpoint !

In case you have been cheated then what you have done is the right thing and I am sure everyone will take note of it. Thats why this forum is for.

And from all this cheating business the only thing I have understood is that you paid a big price for the product, which was the quoted price, and when u had a problem you had to pay for warranty (Am I right.?. with so many posts on this topic i really do not know What the problem really is !!!)


regarding showroom,. how does it matter to me whether someone has his place in a shop ,in a showroom or in a garage . as long as the locatoin is reachable, the room is big enough and all his equipment is setup does it really matter ?

regarding Warranty Yes. that is usually the first question I ask and if I DO NOT GET AN ASSURANCE, I DEMAND A BETTER PRICE. thats my prerogative and i very well do exercise it. and all of us need to do so too. because to me personally without that assurance a grey market product is equally feasible. (Or an internat sale + duty+ custom hassle)

Again I feel you have done a very good thing by bringing the whole discussion with facts and figures on cost..something which no one can and has disputed.
This definitely has been a learning for me as would have been for so many other in the forum.

But again , You can only tell the moth that the fire will burn him maybe once maybe twice and maybe more times.. then again maybe either the moth does not see the fire..(Or again he may be Fireproof )

One day Buddha came to his assembly of monks with a flower in his hand. He was to speak, but he would not speak. He just sat, and this continued for a long time. Everyone became puzzled and disturbed and began to whisper into one another “ ears,” what is the matter? Why is he not speaking today? He was just sitting there with a flower in his hand – a lotus flower – looking at it, totally with a flower in his hand – a lotus flower – looking at it, totally absorbed in it. Then someone asked, “Are you not going to speak?”

Buddha said, “I am speaking. Listen!” And he remained silent. Then someone else asked, “We cannot understand what you are doing, Sir. You are just looking at the flower and we have come to listen to something from you.”

Buddha said, “I have said many things to you which could be said. Now I am saying something which cannot be said, and if someone understands let him laugh.”

Only one person laughed – Mahakashyap. He was not known before; no one knew about him. This is the only incident that is known. Mahakashyap was his name.

DD, your message is loud and clear. thanks

One day Buddha came to his assembly of monks with a flower in his hand. He was to speak, but he would not speak. He just sat, and this continued for a long time. Everyone became puzzled and disturbed and began to whisper into one another “ ears,” what is the matter? Why is he not speaking today? He was just sitting there with a flower in his hand – a lotus flower – looking at it, totally with a flower in his hand – a lotus flower – looking at it, totally absorbed in it. Then someone asked, “Are you not going to speak?” Buddha said, “I am speaking. Listen!” And he remained silent. Then someone else asked, “We cannot understand what you are doing, Sir. You are just looking at the flower and we have come to listen to something from you.” Buddha said, “I have said many things to you which could be said. Now I am saying something which cannot be said, and if someone understands let him laugh.” Only one person laughed – Mahakashyap. He was not known before; no one knew about him. This is the only incident that is known. Mahakashyap was his name. DD, your message is loud and clear. thanks

What does your story mean?? And to whom do you associate Mahakashyap?.

I know the way you behave that you are a dealer too, so don't fly your handle off too much nietzche.

nietzsche schrieb:

One day Buddha came to his assembly of monks with a flower in his hand. He was to speak, but he would not speak. He just sat, and this continued for a long time. Everyone became puzzled and disturbed and began to whisper into one another “ ears,” what is the matter? Why is he not speaking today? He was just sitting there with a flower in his hand – a lotus flower – looking at it, totally with a flower in his hand – a lotus flower – looking at it, totally absorbed in it. Then someone asked, “Are you not going to speak?” Buddha said, “I am speaking. Listen!” And he remained silent. Then someone else asked, “We cannot understand what you are doing, Sir. You are just looking at the flower and we have come to listen to something from you.” Buddha said, “I have said many things to you which could be said. Now I am saying something which cannot be said, and if someone understands let him laugh.” Only one person laughed – Mahakashyap. He was not known before; no one knew about him. This is the only incident that is known. Mahakashyap was his name. DD, your message is loud and clear. thanks

I guess you are Buddha here; waiting for a Mahakashyap to laugh at what you posted here!!!

I guess you are Buddha here; waiting for a Mahakashyap to laugh at what you posted here!!!

Who's Buddha?

Nietzche!!! Then the lotus is elsewhere.

Ask ram he'll tell all..

Arj schrieb:

Not so sure about that.. in my case I am perfectly willing to get it from someplace else or not get it at all.. but frankly I do not know you and have not met you and do not know what has really happened..how can I even in the best of faith trust you ? to me and everyone else, you are someone called Dare Devil who has more than 100 posts and almost every post in the past has been against AP or Prithvi !!! look at it from the forum members viewpoint !

Agreed. But where is the personal attack? I am posting unethical practices of a particular dealer with relevant facts and data. I am not asking you to trust me as a person as consider my opinion holy. But the data posted here is for you to decide (trust or not).

Arj schrieb:

with so many posts on this topic i really do not know What the problem really is !!!)

PROBLEM: Lack of transparency and accountability for the premium quoted.

Arj schrieb:

regarding showroom,. how does it matter to me whether someone has his place in a shop ,in a showroom or in a garage . as long as the locatoin is reachable, the room is big enough and all his equipment is setup does it really matter ?

Is that what we are supposed to pay 350% premium for?

Arj schrieb:

regarding Warranty Yes. that is usually the first question I ask and if I DO NOT GET AN ASSURANCE, I DEMAND A BETTER PRICE. thats my prerogative and i very well do exercise it. and all of us need to do so too. because to me personally without that assurance a grey market product is equally feasible. (Or an internat sale + duty+ custom hassle)

Is this how an authorized dealer supposed to operate? Price products on a case-to-case basis depending on how much the customer can bargain for the lack of infrastructure?

Howcome I don't see anyone demanding transparency and accountability from the dealer with the same vigour as demonstrated in challenging me for continuing this thread?

DD,

I'm happy to see someone taking a good intiative to spread

the hard thruth behind veils, but how far and how much can

you fight?.

The whole system is corrupt so relax friend.

Howcome I don't see anyone demanding transparency and accountability from the dealer with the same vigour as demonstrated in challenging me for continuing this thread?

Becoz everyone knows you have communicated what had to be done and any further you are wasting your energy.

[quote="buzzer"][quote]I guess you are Buddha here; waiting for a Mahakashyap to laugh at what you posted here!!![/quote]

[quote="buzzer"]Who's Buddha?

Nietzche!!!
[/quote]

Or maybe not. Nietzche may be Mahakashyap instead; already laughing even before arrival of his Buddha!!!

Dieser Pfosten ist noch lebendig! das Überraschen zu mir und kann Sie mehr Details über andere Händler hinzufügen, um ihn interessanter zu bilden.

In English :

This post is still alive! surprising to me and can you add some more details about other dealers to make it more interesting.

I don't care more about Plinius as it sounds too boring, but devil you have exposed the intrinsic business detials which is bread and butter of someone. It's like you go to Pizza hut and discover the pizza you ate for 100 bucks actually costs him just 12 bucks and write a big post, put their grocery bills, overheads etc etc.

I don't care more about Plinius as it sounds too boring, but devil you have exposed the intrinsic business detials which is bread and butter of someone. It's like you go to Pizza hut and discover the pizza you ate for 100 bucks actually costs him just 12 bucks and write a big post, put their grocery bills, overheads etc etc.

..Nice one

Howcome I don't see anyone demanding transparency and accountability from the dealer with the same vigour as demonstrated in challenging me for continuing this thread?

well I can only speak for myself but If the price is too high for me , i feel most of us bargain and if it still does not match I presume we buy elsewhere. eg either grey market or internet.

for bargaining the cost structure you have given is very useful.


But, Till now I have not heard of any dealer being obliged to give details of cost and transparency of operations anywhere (NOt just in india but try asking the same to any dealer anywhere else in the world and in any product) unless he is publishing a balance sheet. I know that firsthand having been a consultant in that area

question is not about Cribbing but what one wants to DO about it ?

Honestly, all you have done so far is crib and flame. if that is all you want to do, the thread is all yours ..I promise not to write a word more. am sure this is something the others share

But if you want to do something about it WRITE THAT DOWN and lets discuss on that rather than beating about the dead, buried, burnt and absolutely "ashed" topic of how Plinius dealers and absolute phase are ruining the audio scene in india!
If you are in the Audio business then start and alternative option and if you are a consumer then maybe you can put together a power buy from singapore/HK.

TROJAN_HORSE schrieb:

It's like you go to Pizza hut and discover the pizza you ate for 100 bucks actually costs him just 12 bucks and write a big post, put their grocery bills, overheads etc etc. :D

I think you put that one better and shorter than i did !!

DD,

Please post disty prices of all other high-end products too please like JM, Chord and the likes.

I love this and also at the same time feel cheated

Regards,

Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

DD, Please post disty prices of all other high-end products too please like JM, Chord and the likes. I love this and also at the same time feel cheated Regards, Satyam.

I don't have those

Arj schrieb:

But, Till now I have not heard of any dealer being obliged to give details of cost and transparency of operations anywhere (NOt just in india but try asking the same to any dealer anywhere else in the world and in any product) unless he is publishing a balance sheet. I know that firsthand having been a consultant in that area

I have not seen a dealer outside India not having a showroom. I have not seen a dealer outside India not having a service center. I have not seen a dealer outside not explaining what will be covered in the after sales warranty and support. That is the transparency I am talking about. The cost comes next. The question here is: Why the cost without the other things which are mandatory?

Arj schrieb:

question is not about Cribbing but what one wants to DO about it ? Honestly, all you have done so far is crib and flame.

I have atleast tried to post the facts here to show the reality which will help demand transparancy from the dealers. If this is cribbing for you, so be it. On the contrary, you haven't even raised a single question against such dubious dealers inspite of knowing the facts here and have been cribbing about my posts. That indicates how interested you are to do something.

Arj schrieb:

if that is all you want to do, the thread is all yours ..I promise not to write a word more. am sure this is something the others share

May be better for you. I did not force you to write here. I guess you are not the sole voice for all in the forum.

Arj schrieb:

If you are in the Audio business then start and alternative option and if you are a consumer then maybe you can put together a power buy from singapore/HK.

You rather better provide career counselling to the cheats in the name of dealers.

TROJAN_HORSE schrieb:

I don't care more about Plinius as it sounds too boring, but devil you have exposed the intrinsic business detials which is bread and butter of someone.

Oh is it?? So the bread and butter actually becomes pizzas by charging premium from the customers for the service that is never there!!! Which means charging for pizzas but selling bread and butter.

TROJAN_HORSE schrieb:

It's like you go to Pizza hut and discover the pizza you ate for 100 bucks actually costs him just 12 bucks and write a big post, put their grocery bills, overheads etc etc. :D

If one charges for Pizzas and sells bread and butter, it certainly needs to be revealed!!!

buzzer schrieb:

I don't care more about Plinius as it sounds too boring, but devil you have exposed the intrinsic business detials which is bread and butter of someone. It's like you go to Pizza hut and discover the pizza you ate for 100 bucks actually costs him just 12 bucks and write a big post, put their grocery bills, overheads etc etc. ..Nice one

Arj schrieb:

TROJAN_HORSE schrieb: It's like you go to Pizza hut and discover the pizza you ate for 100 bucks actually costs him just 12 bucks and write a big post, put their grocery bills, overheads etc etc. :D I think you put that one better and shorter than i did !!images/smilies/insane.gif

WOW....clap clap clap clap!! I just cant stop myself clapping...
What a way to discourage the MAN (DD)!!
One compares affording Pizzas to affording High-end audio and another pats on his back for giving such a wonderful analogy...cool.
Please guys if you dont want to speak against a dealer its OK, there are many other forum members I know personally who actively want to participate in this thread alongside DD but they dont want to because their identity is known and they are uncomfortable creating a bad rapport with a dealer. Infact I know a few members in this forum who have lost thousands of ruppees because the dealer here in Bangalore (not AP) couldnt give them adequate support even during warranty and finally they had to sell their equipments at throw away prices. Even they are reluctant to post their experiences here because of the same above stated reason. Which basically implies that it requires a significant amount of courage and will power to join DD's camp "OPENLY" even though he is right on most counts. If we cant do that, its ok, but why write such pathetically discouraging posts either ??

Prithvi, who is a respectable and "ACTIVE" member of this forum should have been here long back, atleast he should have tried to give the forum a clarification !!!
Is he only here for publishing new arrivals at AP ?? Is it not warranted that he also explains about how he plans to give service backups to those arrivals (that too when he questioned sooooo hard) ? Why nobody is questioning him on this thread except DD ? Why the vigour is lacking in his case ? If it is due to the fear/reluctance as stated above then why question DD as well ?

If you think DD is simply cribbing and doing nothing else then you are free to ignore his posts but why do such things as quoted on top ? It would simply give the leverage to the dealers to think that we arent taking these things seriously
and they would continue with the nuisance. Cmon guys lets not put down the face of the consumers in such a pathetic manner. Its insulting..to say the least
Lets not justify things ourselves that the dealers are supposed to justify !! If we cant question them, why answer either?

BTW I would definitely like to add that the way Pizza Hut operates is one of the role models for many other food chains ? If you dont like a Pizza even after eating half of it they replace it free of cost or dont bill you at all (as per your convinience)...there are many other such gestures thats hard to find in the industry and they maintain these gestures worldwide...please dont compare it to the crappy high-end audio dealer scenario in India.

Anyway guys irrespective of who DD is and what does he wants, he definitely is speaking as a consumer, that too with a lot of things that makes sense. IMO we arent doing the right thing by questioning his credibility time and again and answering his question with such saddistic analogies (Pizza hut etc...) and then patting each others back, indirectly making a mockery. We look very silly IMO

DD, pardon me if this has been answered by you, but would appreciate your feedback in knowing the details of your issue on improper support.

To keep it focused, could you please indicate :

1. Name & Model Number of product you purchased from Prithvi.

2. Date of purchase.

3. Nature / duration Warranty provided on purchase.

4. Nature of problem with the equipment.

5. Date when problem occured.

6. Your expectation on customer support from Prithvi

7. What did you get instead from Prithvi

8. Have you escallated this matter to the manufacturer ? ( Plinus ? )

9. Plinus' response ?


The above would provide me a concise picture of the problem, so that similar situations can be avoided by all others in the forum.

Thanks & Regards

I have atleast tried to post the facts here to show the reality which will help demand transparancy from the dealers. If this is cribbing for you, so be it. On the contrary, you haven't even raised a single question against such dubious dealers inspite of knowing the facts here and have been cribbing about my posts. That indicates how interested you are to do something.

Thats what is my point...the amount of time, energy and knowledge being applied to crib about DD's post, why not spend the same in getting replies/clarifications from the commercial members ? This attitude looks sick

Amp_Nut schrieb:

DD, pardon me if this has been answered by you, but would appreciate your feedback in knowing the details of your issue on improper support. To keep it focused, could you please indicate : 1. Name & Model Number of product you purchased from Prithvi. 2. Date of purchase. 3. Nature / duration Warranty provided on purchase. 4. Nature of problem with the equipment. 5. Date when problem occured. 6. Your expectation on customer support from Prithvi 7. What did you get instead from Prithvi 8. Have you escallated this matter to the manufacturer ? ( Plinus ? ) 9. Plinus' response ? The above would provide me a concise picture of the problem, so that similar situations can be avoided by all others in the forum. Thanks & Regards

Pardon me Amp_Nut but that kind of detailed reply would most probably expose the identity of DD and that he may not want and even we shouldnt expect IMO

hmm...i guess i have stayed away from this topic long enough.

Its not that we are afraid of dealers , at least am not.

I have been treated badly on more than one occasion by more than one dealer.

Believe it or not i am yet to see a bill for the wharfedale speakers i bought from DEsigner Audio .
Though he at least gives a neat demo without interfering .

It just blows my mind that even after repeatedly reminding them to give me one i still am yet to see a shred of paper.

Its been exactly two years since i bought the speakers.
The apathy towards their customers is shocking to say the least.


But let them not think that we are spineless.
We are their bread and butter.
So its their duty to offer their services.

The prices revealed by Dare Devil are mind boggling....
its like a 100% markup on a 100% markup.
That just doesn't make sense.
That means even the manufacturer doesn't make that much money.
If the distributor/dealer gets it for x amount and sells it for 3x amount then the distributor/dealer stands to earn more than the manufacturer right?

I shudder to think what the actual cost(cost of materials and other expenses with no profit) would be when the manufacturer is selling a plinius reference for 2 lacs.

For this am glad that Dare Devil has brought up this topic.

Instead of turning on each other, I think it would be good for us, the consumers, to work out a strategy to make sure we are accorded the treatement any customer deserves.

abhi, are you another one ripped by AP ?

Since you are the only other person who has made any comment in that directions other than DD. let me tell you what I have understood from this thread

1. Selling price very high compared to manufacturer price
2. No showroom.. only a garage
3. does not provide transparency on costs/standing with plinius
4. does not provide support.

Other than perhaps No 2, they all hold true for every other dealer in the country . (In fact there are many brands which do not get wrranty support in a country like Singapore as well)

I can understand a vent against dealers..believe me the singapore forums have enough of it and perhaps more so that what you are putting in here, and from what someone told me the french forums have some nuggets as well, but since i do not know the language cannot really understand it.

You I know as someone who is a "authentic" member of this forum and who posts on various topics.. but DD as far as I am concerned is someone who only posts against AP/Prithvi.

If I remember right the only other person who went off on this line earlier was junia (jsaind ??). anyway he seems to have left the forum .. but he used to at least provide a lot of help in the forum with information


since you appear to know DD and other members in this forum, should you not be giving the problems you are facing rather than going on this cost vs price thing and transparency.. also as you said keeping quiet to keep up good relations with someone who was not good to you definitely does not make any sense !

(BTW I am neither a customer nor a supplier/vendor of AP and nither am i in this business. and to be honest am not a fan of any of the brands being promoted by AP now)

Arj schrieb:

(BTW I am neither a customer nor a supplier/vendor of AP and nither am i in this business. and to be honest am not a fan of any of the brands being promoted by AP now)

Does not appear so with your undying desire to end this thread!! Neither does it appear so with your reluctance to question the dealings of dubious dealers.

Isn't the above a fair assumption if you could assume people knew me only because they posted in support of my posts?? Yes, there are people who do know me - through the PMs they have sent me and only as DD and sharing the same concerns as I do. I have never met anyone other than the dealer in question here.

Anyways, wait for my post about what we can do about it. Let me see if you are willing to sign-up. And hope you don't crib signing-up for it. If there are dubious dealers worldwide, does not mean we should encourage the same here too. That's why I had said that we are used to being cheated and you had contested that.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

DD, pardon me if this has been answered by you, but would appreciate your feedback in knowing the details of your issue on improper support. To keep it focused, could you please indicate : 1. Name & Model Number of product you purchased from Prithvi. 2. Date of purchase. 3. Nature / duration Warranty provided on purchase. 4. Nature of problem with the equipment. 5. Date when problem occured. 6. Your expectation on customer support from Prithvi 7. What did you get instead from Prithvi 8. Have you escallated this matter to the manufacturer ? ( Plinus ? ) 9. Plinus' response ? The above would provide me a concise picture of the problem, so that similar situations can be avoided by all others in the forum. Thanks & Regards

Can you solve the problem? If not, I don't see any value in sharing it with you.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

If the distributor/dealer gets it for x amount and sells it for 3x amount then the distributor/dealer stands to earn more than the manufacturer right?

This is precisely my point. I don't have problems with distributors and dealers making huge profits. But certainly not at the customers expense. The manufacturer passes this benefit to the dealers/distributors as dealers have to invest in a showroom, hire sales folks, have a service center, hire and train authorized personnel and provide after sales warranty and service. In a nutshell they become the brand ambassadors of the product for the manufacturers.

On the contrary, the customers here are being treated as one-night-stand partners; relationship till the sale of the product and the dealer pockets all the premium, even the ones that were supposed to be invested in the infrastructure and after sales support that are the rights of the customers.

Daredevil said: Can you solve the problem? If not, I don't see any value in sharing it with you.

Well DD, then, by the same logic, did sharing the price list, and writing against AP and Prithvi solve the problem ????

It seems that the alllegation that yiou ARE NOT AN AGREIVED CUSTOMER AT ALL.

YOU WERE A PLINUS DEALER, THAT HAS LOST HIS BANGALORE DEALERSHIP TO PRITHVI.

THAT ALSO EXPLAINS HOW YOU HAVE GOT COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL PRICELISTS OF BOTH - PLINUS AND SOUNDSMITHS.


YOU HAVE USED THIS FORUM FOR YOUR PERSONAL COMMERCIAL VENGENCE.

SHAME ON YOU.