Plinius distributorship in India

power supply.....consumer court, that sounds interesting !

thats what SBFX said, do your homework before you buy. Buy from the right source, a safe source, after all you are going to put in a lac or two and you have the right as a consumer to protect your interest and you have the right to ask questions.
If you dont get answers or if the answers dont satisfy you, walk away. If there is even an element of doubt, walk away. Do not do a risky deal, do not assume your source will honour warranties. There will be other opportunities to buy. Product warranties and service are an integral part of the product you buy.

The next time you or any one buys a product make sure you either have a signed warranty card or have it mentioned on the invoice or both. That way you have written proff of warranty and will be helpfull in consumer court Walk away if the same is not done.

Manek.

The more I analyze this entire thread the more I am convinced about the following.

1) There is a huge nexus between self-acclaimed dealers like AP and deaf.
2) These so called dealers do not like being asked about transparency of their dealerships.
3) They do not want to commit any after sales service and warranty support to the customers and eventually the onus of the same will come on the customers including the shipping and repair costs even during the warranty. Eventually the customer may loose the warranty and have to dispose of the product at a fraction of the purchasing price due to the inefficiency and lack of skills of these dealers to provide after sales warranty and service.
4) There is no difference between buying products from these dealers vs the grey market as both will entail the customer to take the risk. In fact, the customer may get a better price advantage buying from the grey market.
5) The 17 years of experience and all is bulls... and just false ego of these dealers as this experience did not and does not help in educating any members in the forum.
6) These dubious dealers are only in the business for short term gains and pocketing money and will support the customers only till the sale of the products.
7) These guys expect customers to throw lakhs of rupees on them just because they are saying so with their 17 years of dubious and futile experience. But it is criminal for the customer to expect anything in return for the lakhs of rupees that possibly will go down the drains.
8) These dealers do not want to invest in proper showrooms and service centers. Neither do they want to train and have authorized technicians. But the prices they charge from the customers will be astronomical which will include all the customer benefits like infrastructural and after sales warranty costs which would never accrue to the customers but digested by these dubious dealers.
9) These dubious dealers do not have any loyalty to any products they sell. They will promote whatever they can at that point in time. Sometime it can be Plinius, sometimes Krell, Linn, dynaudio, etc.
10) These dealers can go to any length (like hundreds of posts) to keep us away from the truth by deviating from the main topic but will not spend a few minutes explaining and educating us about their business model and support system even though that information is every customer's right.

Is there anyone in this forum who disagrees with my conclusions based on the postings in this thread? If so, I would like the person to state the same right here in this forum (no hush hush PMs) with adequate reasoning, logic and data behind it and no beating around the bush like deaf with the pretext of 17 years bulls... behind.

I fully agree with you Manek.

[quote]Buy from the right source[quote]

Does it mean from an "Authorised Disti" or "Dealer"?

power supply....it means "authorised distributor", "authorised dealer", "Genuine warranty papers/documentation" and the desire to hold the source accountable for non compliance of service and support

Maybe we should also put in service penalty clauses


Manek.

Manek one doubt.

How do we know he is an authorised disti or dealer?

IMO, one way is to go to Mnfrs site & find out whether that disti or dealer's name is listed there or other way to findout is, that Disti or Dealer should diplay his authorised certificate issued either by mnfr or that country's local Disti. Hope I'm not wrong

yes...powersupply..that is the way....

I finally went thru all the posts on this thread...

DD, Deaf....it makes no sense you guys squabling....it would be better if you used your energies doing something more pleasant. Chill. Both of you have a beer on me. Lovely weather for it in Bombay anyways.

DD you have asked questions...the answers to which you have not recvd....valid questions, sadly not answered by the entity in question.

Deaf, it is in the interest of the person who is questioned, to answer. Defending someone else is a noble thing to do but to me it makes no sense defending someone who is least interested or does not want to answer the questions or even defend his position for reasons best known to him.
The way I see it, its not that the other person cant defend himself, he is just letting you fight his battle and you dirty your reputation in turn. I dont think thats fair on you at all.You my friend, in the bargain are bearing the brunt of it all.

Manek.

Hi all!

Been just informed of this posting and read a wee bit at the start b4 just getting curious and tired of the senseless banter being propagated. Curious because I wonder about the level and reason for Daredevil’s concerns. Seems a bit overboard to me. All would appreciate that the easiest way to get clarification would be to write to Plinius directly but I have a feeling that he CANNOT do that IN HIS REAL NAME. I also feel that as far as this matter is concerned he cannot disclose his identity even to the forum or me as his vested interests might show loud and clear. I would request him to call me up if he wishes to prove me wrong.

Anyway, I am not really perturbed by his behaviour which IMHO is just intended to malign Prithvi for no real reason. I have been working with Prithvi since 3 years and have had an excellent relationship with him on a professional and personal level.

The actual fact is that I have taken on distribution of Plinius since end May 2006 and my dealer network includes Absolute Phase/Prithvi. I am concerned with the unsavory choice of description “DALAL” used by Daredevil, which more than proves my point. A dealer “DEALS” in equipment and I hope no further explanation is deserved on this front.

Anyone wishing authentication of this matter may please contact me or even Plinius. I would also request the moderators to ensue that the forum is not misused by such people.

Aditya Gupta

Finally from the horses mouth.

Satyam.

Been watching this topic since the beginning - seems like a lot of hidden issues here - my dear friend Mr. Freud would have had a field day with this.

Back to the topic - glad to see Aditya Gupta has the taken wait and watch approach - it is always better to 'respond' rather than 'react' - Much like a Great Dane would saunter past a barking mongrel rather than engage in a pointless barking match.

We all choose who we can trust - we are all aware of stories where a spoken word is more trustworthy than a thousand page contract - so is the current case with 'dealers' and 'distributors' in this country. Unless one is prepared to sit and pore through acres of paperwork to 'ensure' the definition of a 'distriborship' etc., rely on the spoken word. In this case as Aditya Gupta has openly suggested - write to Plinius without the guise of a pseudonym.

I think the role of the moderator has to been clearly defined. If he/she has to take a call on what should be discussed on the forum and what cannot be dragged on, those boundaries should be spelt out.
Under no circumstances can any moderator take sides and if there is a committment the moderator should personally take the matter up between the parties and post clarifications instead of letting it drag on.
Jeeves

soundsmiths schrieb:

Hi all! Been just informed of this posting and read a wee bit at the start b4 just getting curious and tired of the senseless banter being propagated. Curious because I wonder about the level and reason for Daredevil’s concerns. Seems a bit overboard to me. All would appreciate that the easiest way to get clarification would be to write to Plinius directly but I have a feeling that he CANNOT do that IN HIS REAL NAME. I also feel that as far as this matter is concerned he cannot disclose his identity even to the forum or me as his vested interests might show loud and clear. I would request him to call me up if he wishes to prove me wrong. Anyway, I am not really perturbed by his behaviour which IMHO is just intended to malign Prithvi for no real reason. I have been working with Prithvi since 3 years and have had an excellent relationship with him on a professional and personal level. The actual fact is that I have taken on distribution of Plinius since end May 2006 and my dealer network includes Absolute Phase/Prithvi. I am concerned with the unsavory choice of description “DALAL” used by Daredevil, which more than proves my point. A dealer “DEALS” in equipment and I hope no further explanation is deserved on this front. Anyone wishing authentication of this matter may please contact me or even Plinius. I would also request the moderators to ensue that the forum is not misused by such people. Aditya Gupta

Another one taking deaf's route and will soon bite the dust.

Can you please expalin Mr. Aditya Gupta, is the Plinius distributorship or dealership only meant for DD or for all possible customers? Why can't you as a distributor clarify the very relavant questions being asked in the forum about the transparency of the dealership of AP? Now that you have declared AP to be a dealer, can we know the address of the showroom? Can we know the address of the service center? Can we know the credentials of the Plinius trained technicians supposed to provide after sales and warranty support? Can we know what kind of assurance as a distributor you are ready to provide on behalf of AP (dealer) for ensuring authorized local after sales and warranty support? Last but not the least, if you assume DD has malicious intent and needs to prove otherwise by calling you, the very first onus lies on you to show us you have a clean distributor-dealer relationship with Plinius and can ensure thorough and professional after sales warranty and service support? Can you do it? If not, you have no rights to ask for transparency either. If DD is misleading the forum members, why don't you show them the right direction by differentiating the wheat from the chaff and answering the relevant questions. At least I have my identity concealed and have revealed my questions openly and objectively; which is much less dangerous than having the identity revealed but business model/ethics concealed. Ask your customers which one will they prefer? At the end of the day, you exist because of the customers and not vice versa. Hence you are accoutable for making your dealings transparent, especially with such huge money involved.

sbfx schrieb:

Finally from the horses mouth. Satyam.

Yes, the horse came but forgot to get the carriage along. I just reminded him to get it back.

Jeeves schrieb:

I think the role of the moderator has to been clearly defined. If he/she has to take a call on what should be discussed on the forum and what cannot be dragged on, those boundaries should be spelt out. Under no circumstances can any moderator take sides and if there is a committment the moderator should personally take the matter up between the parties and post clarifications instead of letting it drag on. Jeeves

Where is the question of dragging along? We haven't even got the answers to the basic questions posted in the first post of the thread. It would much rather help if Mr. Aditya Gupta sheds some light on the transparency. Moderator too is a member after all and does cary a opinion.

vick schrieb:

:) Been watching this topic since the beginning - seems like a lot of hidden issues here - my dear friend Mr. Freud would have had a field day with this. Back to the topic - glad to see Aditya Gupta has the taken wait and watch approach - it is always better to 'respond' rather than 'react' - Much like a Great Dane would saunter past a barking mongrel rather than engage in a pointless barking match. We all choose who we can trust - we are all aware of stories where a spoken word is more trustworthy than a thousand page contract - so is the current case with 'dealers' and 'distributors' in this country. Unless one is prepared to sit and pore through acres of paperwork to 'ensure' the definition of a 'distriborship' etc., rely on the spoken word. In this case as Aditya Gupta has openly suggested - write to Plinius without the guise of a pseudonym.

Basic question - Why should a customer write to the manufacturer? Is the customer buying directly from the manufacturer? Is this model of getting information from manufacturer scaleable if all customers were to choose that route? Why can't we expect transparency from the dealers and distributors? The very fact that Prithvi is quiet and though Aditya Gupta responsed but never clarified the main topic of discussion, does spaek volumes of the nature of the deal and what kind of rude shock customers are in for.

soundsmiths Newbie Postings: 1 Member since: Mar 2006

Hi Aditya,

Welcome to the forum. I do hope that we will gain from your presence and exchange of views.

Given the large number of brands that you offer, the knowledge & info that you bring to the table are most welcome.

I see that this is your first post, even though you joined 4 months ago.

Do post actively.

Welcome again & Cheers

Gentlemen - its been a pleasure (tongue in cheek) chatting with y'all today.

Plinius - great product - no doubt
Distributors - have to go with face value - can doubt so please ask around before you buy
DD - oh boy!!! - doubtful about intent - certainly not fighting for the greater good - obviously has some issue with either Plinius, Aditya Gupta, Prithvi OR has just found a new bone for the day to chew on

Lets get back to the finer points of AUDIO - the purpose of the forum.

Had a bit of a revelation last night - when I actually got fed up of tweaking and just sat and listened to 'music' instead. Its a fine line - listening to 'music' rather than the 'equipment'. Began the evening toying with isolators and gave up being critical after an hour - just settled back to Mary Black - good album 'The Best of Mary Black'

Hi Vick,

Nice post.


Hmmmmmmmm Mary Black seems Great for a Rainy weekend.

Incidentally, do you, or any one on this forum have Janis Ian - HUNGER ?

Can you good folks PM me, if U have it, Pleaseeeeee ?

soundsmiths schrieb:

Been just informed of this posting ... Aditya Gupta

By whom? Did you recieve a distress SOS call from Prithvi of AP? Why is he not responding to the pertinent questions making you a mouthpeice for him too?

vick schrieb:

:* Gentlemen - its been a pleasure (tongue in cheek) chatting with y'all today. Plinius - great product - no doubt Distributors - have to go with face value - can doubt so please ask around before you buy DD - oh boy!!! - doubtful about intent - certainly not fighting for the greater good - obviously has some issue with either Plinius, Aditya Gupta, Prithvi OR has just found a new bone for the day to chew on

Help get to the answers of the relevant questions, I will back off. Irrespective of the intent, questions are indeed pertinent and in the greater cause. Beg to differ?; you are welcome not to read or post.

vick schrieb:

Lets get back to the finer points of AUDIO - the purpose of the forum. Had a bit of a revelation last night - when I actually got fed up of tweaking and just sat and listened to 'music' instead. Its a fine line - listening to 'music' rather than the 'equipment'. Began the evening toying with isolators and gave up being critical after an hour - just settled back to Mary Black - good album 'The Best of Mary Black'

Want to start a new thread? This is not the right one for the topic.

hell'o' - started a new thread...lets see what we can weave out of 'hum of the harmonica not the ground loop'

please contribute,

While on this topic could someone tell us what is the average markup percentage wise on an audio product. Also is it scalable ? That is do the entry level products have a lower margin ?

I have myself been a victim of no after sales service within 6 months of buying a product from an "Authorized dealer". In my case I was fortunate enough to set it right myself, but the dealer gave all sorts of promises and never turned up. Sad state of affairs.

Behram.

1. Internationally, Hi Fi consumer products typically offer a 50% retail margin.

Therefore an amplifier with a retail price tag of US $1,000 typically costs the retail store US $ 500.

The 50% margin is a ball park figure. Some offer less and ..... Yes ! Some offer MORE !

In the 1980's Technics products flooded US retail stores.... They offered margins as high as 70% Whew !

That means a US $ 100 Technics cassette deck, cost the retailer US $ 30. No wonder they pushed the brand.




2. In Europe, the retail prices are Higher than in the US. For example, an amplifier priced at US $ 1000 in the US maybe priced at Euro 1000 in Europe.

The retailer in Europe stll gets his 50% of the Recommended Selling Price.

( Incidentally, 50% retail margins are the Norm for even High priced watches - Omega, Rolex, etc and other Fashion and life style products )




3. In India, most distributors get the same 50% of Recommended Retail price as their FOB price.

However, Most Indian distributors get the EUROPEAN Purchase Price.

They then have to pay for Freight ( typically, quite a large chunk, specially for small consignments ) and ofcourse Customs Duty ( approx 40% ? ).




4. Most Indian customers look on the 'net at the US Retail prices, and expect the same US Retail price as their purchase price in India,

This implies a fairly thin margin for the retail if at all he decides to match the US Retail price.... sometimes an IMPOSSIBLE proposition, when the disty has bought at the Europen Transfer price.

Many Indian distys, have their own prices, not related to either US or European retail prices. Often they state " Sales taxes and Octroi extra.... that add another 20% ! )


The Indian distributor may typically offer retailers a 15% retail margin.

The distributor is supposed to handle service, within his retail mark up costs.

Issues such as who will pay freight, under warranty, often remain Nemulus.

Even in the US, most companies require the customer to bear atleast Half the freight ( one way ) for rep[airs.

Even internationally, companies try to wriggle out of their warranty clause by saying that it is non transferable..... even in the warranty period





IMHO therefore:


A. Expecting a retailer to have his own service centre, when he operates on a 15% margin, in absurd.

Warranty is the Distributor's issue. The retailer should simply help co-ordinate.... NOT even carry / freight the equipment.

Do you deposit your TV set, to the retailer's premise ?



B. Given the above issues, I have no specific compulsion to buy International Hi Fi from an Indian Distributor, rather than the Grey Market.

The grey market savings often are worth the lack of 12 months warranty support.



C. On the other hand, My KEY consideration in deciding the source of Hi Fi Purchase is an IN HOME Demo.

I am equally happy if a Grey market operator gives me one.



D. However, I PERSONALLY think it is Not just un-ethical BUT INDECENT to take a demo from one source and buy based on lowest price from another. THAT STINKS.

If you CANT ( TYPO EDITED FROM CAN TO CANT ) afford a guy's retail mark up, DONT take his demo, and then dump him.


Just think ... Would You Have Liked to be in that guy's shoes, and be used like that ?

An excellent post amp_nut

Behram schrieb:

While on this topic could someone tell us what is the average markup percentage wise on an audio product. Also is it scalable ? That is do the entry level products have a lower margin ? I have myself been a victim of no after sales service within 6 months of buying a product from an "Authorized dealer". In my case I was fortunate enough to set it right myself, but the dealer gave all sorts of promises and never turned up. Sad state of affairs. Behram.

You have hit the bull's eye here with your point about the percentage mark-up. Wait for my next post in a few days time regarding the same which will make it all the more clear the nexus we have between supposed distributors-dealers like SS-AP and how customers are taken for a ride without any investment in infrastructure like showroom and after sales suport by these dubious distributors and dealers, although customer pays for the same in the retail pricing.

I am sure we all are in for a rude shock!! Till my post, hold on to the suspense!!

Today if I start something against SUB_BOSS in another thread, will it even reach 20 posts if SUB_BOSS doesnt reply ????

You write something against me I will slaughter the thread before it reaches 2 posts and 20 is a tall order... BTW did you get the stabiliser bro??? Call me when you are free