Good free site for flac format songs

Sir, have you compared the originals with the the ten buck copies? Your opinions on this please!

" Bit Perfect Copy " my &^%$#@!

I use EAC to rip the CD Image + Cue file, and burn a CDR at 4X.

The Orginal ALWAYS sounds better.... as much difference as between 2 rather different interconnects.

IMHO Ofcourse

Thanks. So where would the errors be? Is it that the bit-perfect copy isn't so perfect? Or is it something else?

I would suspect in the REFLECTIVITY of the CDR... which is MUCH lower ( 50% ? ) of a Pressed CD.

Poorer refectiviity = Increased error


I also wonder ( can someone correct me ? ) if the pits in a Pressed CD are with sharper outlines than a on the colour chaged dye in a CDR ?

That would probably translate into worse Jitter for a CDR ?

Ofcourse all this is my speculation.

( Incidentally, many Hi Fi press persons swear that a CDR sounds BETTER

Can all members share their thoughts... Shahrukh... Maybe you set up a poll ?

Better
Worse
Not Actaually heard under Controlled conditions.

( The systems ability to differentiate small differences too, will come into play. IMHO

AMp_Nut, sir, your poll is right here!!

ALso, if it's CD refelctivity - it sure makes sense to read the files direct off hard disc and thru a DAC, na?

But

1. The USB kills ( does not carry ) a separate clock signal for timing, Befrore the Digital audio goes to the DAC

2. Those digital bits are sludge comming out of an SPDIF interface. Again, no dedicated Clock line on an SPDIF. The I2S interface has a separete clock line. I2S used Inside all CD players feeding their internal DACs.

So there are performance hits Atleast at these 2 points.... which do not come into play in a CD Player.

So would it make sense feeding this same signal into a CDP which has a line in as well (one that supports the use of external transports?)

The (external) Transport to DAC interface is the ( Lousy) SPDIF Interface, which makes a "Bhel-Puri" of the digital data and timing signals, just so that they can be transmitted on 2 wires ...

The digital audio has 2 separate streams : The DATA Stream & The CLOCK that regiments the reading of the data. The I2S Bus provides separate wires for the Data & Clock, but I2S cannot be run over long lengths of wire... the signals would get corrupted.

( The Line Out is a final Analog signal out that goes to a Pre amp or an Integrated amplifier. )

Thanks AN. Didn't know that the "digital" signal from SPDIF was such a mess. I am aware of what a LineOut does, though

[quote="Amp_Nut]
Arj, do share your thoughts too...[/quote]

AN, thanks a lot for that detailed post.

My thoughts are on a slightly similiar vein. but actually i have a Dichotomy of thoughts in almost every step whicn is making me unsure.

1. Starting with the Source.:
a)I am now not very convinced if the Rip quality into Lossless is 'Right'. The reason being that if the SPDIF can have timing errors so can the lossles file itself. Where I am unsure of is if two bit perfect recordings can have a difference in "Timing" ?
Sivat had raised this point earlier and i have not found any conclusive proof either way. If that is the case the Lossless file is itself "Compromised" OR am i totally wrong and the Clock simply does not matter at all in this stage ?

b) a digital out from a transport has a clock signal in the SPDIF signal which is high qality, an even if not good it can be "reclocked". while the output from a
Lossless file in a HDD is by default clocked to the system clock. this should cause jitter.. I would like to think it can be removed by Anti-jitter devices..which is what empirical audio recomends as well. But would you want to send the clock signal out vi I2S here?

c) The format of the Digital out, i thoroughly agree that if the signal contains a clock then I2S is the way to go..but in case of lossless which is anyway 'Freeclocked" to the PC/Mac then SPDIF or USB should be the same as I2S? (this is one confusion) so the DACs clock will do what the computers clock or the transports clock could not ? and the DACs clock should be good (I am not even sure if this logic works)

Based on all this I would also agree that a Good CD player (1 Box) is the ideal way forward [u]today[/u]. and hence as you mentioned burning my HDD files to Cds.I am trying to see if there are any GOOD CDRs to use for this. apparently Black or Dark coloured CDRs are better

But I am unable to ignore the ease and the capability which the HDD based player is able to bring in.
I would feel [b]Ideally[/b] any player which can read a CDdirectly and store it in a HDD along with the the clock signal and then send the signal out via I2S would be what we could look for and this could be interface to a I2s Enabled DAC well.

Today even if the above exists it would be exorbitantly priced. so the Empirical audio USB converted would be the best option. hagerman also has entry level product for this.

I am currently thinking of retaining the Trend UD 10 and keep it for not so serious listening. How did you build a 5V input for it ? will 4.5V with 3 AAAs do or is there some other cell which can be used ?

AN, the Reimyo is amazing (It sounds like heaven with the Leben CS600 int amp) but it neither has a wordclock input nor an I2S input only way in is SDPIF.


Do I sound as Confused as I am ?

Maybe building an HTPC with an External SMPS and a high quality sound Card with SPDIF out may not afterall be a bad idea, thealternative is of couse a Mac Mini.

Arj said :

Maybe building an HTPC with an External SMPS and a high quality sound Card with SPDIF out may not afterall be a bad idea, thealternative is of couse a Mac Mini.

I am repeating myself, but I suspect / IMHO, no PC internal sound card will match the quaklity of a serious DAC like the Remiyo that you have..

Arj,

The questions that you have posed are interesting and thought provoking. I too am learning, and have no ready answers.

Maybe some other forum members can shed more light ?

Arj Said :

I would feel Ideally any player which can read a CDdirectly and store it in a HDD along with the the clock signal and then send the signal out via I2S would be what we could look for and this could be interface to a I2s Enabled DAC well. Today even if the above exists it would be exorbitantly priced.

The ZERO-ONE DAC does EXACTLY the above, and could be available at a price some what more than what you paid for the Reimyo DAC...

Arj schrieb:

RapidWareX rocks. primitive and simple but good and my problem has gone away.

ARJ,

Thats why I am HERCULE PIRATE
Been There for the last 6 years downloading stuff of the Net and 2 years with AvaxHome and Rapidshare
HA
Bye
HP

herculepirate schrieb:

ARJ, Thats why I am HERCULE PIRATE Been There for the last 6 years downloading stuff of the Net and 2 years with AvaxHome and Rapidshare HA Bye HP

You are positively Dangerous

AN, please do comment on this as well

am currently thinking of retaining the Trend UD 10 and keep it for not so serious listening. How did you build a 5V input for it ? will 4.5V with 3 AAAs do or is there some other cell which can be used ?

Hi Arj,

Sorry for my oversight...

The UD-10 requires 5 Volts DC, NO MORE.

6 Volts DC will turn it to Toast

You need to use 4 NiCd ( Nickel Cadmium) rechargable or NiMH Batteries in series.

These are available easily as a rechargable cell pack, used in Cordless telephones ( NOT Mobile Phones )

NiCd or NiMH rechargable batteries have a cell voltage of 1.2 Volts each. A pack of 4 will provide 4.8 Volts... ie very close to the target 5 Volts.


DO NOT use the regular Dry cells ( non rechargable cells ) available at every street corner. They have a voltage of 1.5 Volts each and 3 will be 4.5 Volts: too low,... or 6 Volts ( your UD-10 is toast ).

Do not also use Lead acid batteries, they are 2.2 Volts per cell... UD-10 = Toast again.

Ofcourse you will need to regularly charge the NiCd batteries.... that is another story but you can easily devise one, from a 6 Volt Wall Wart + 1 resistor.

Thanks AN.. will a 5V dc adaptor do ?

BTW there is a nice aricle on PC as a source here titled "Music Playback From A Computer – The Audiophile's Concerns"
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/1208/

From this , what I could infer was that If the DAC is a Good one (Which can suppress Jitter) once the DAC takes over, it is its clock which will be used for timing..So the clock may not really be important at the file level.

If that is the case then the Empirical audio device could well be the best option....and you should still keep your option of a CDP with Digital in open

Am quoting Steve Nugents response rto my questions

"My Understanding is that in case of a HDD based transport, the File is converted into an Async format (Lossless) . This is then played via a PC/Mac and when given out as digital out, the clock that is synched to is the machines own clock (Am I right ?)" The output from the PC, whether it is USB, Firewire or S/PDIF from a soundcard or Mac has the clock embedded. The clock is generated by the computer clock or by a local clock on the sound card. The only time that the soundcard clock frequency can be influenced is if it has a word-clock input that synchronizes the soundcard clock. This does not reduce jitter however. Lossless format is optional. There are many formats that can be stored on the computer hard drive or flash drive. They are all converted to the correct format for transmission on the interface, S/PDIF format for this interface, USB format for this interface etc.. The playback software, such as iTunes or Foobar does this transparently. If you have .wav, AIFF and FLAC files of the same track on the disc and you play them one after another, they will all be converted to the same identical data and format for transmission or transport. The transport formats are different than the stored formats. Transmission of digital data is specific to each interface, USB, Firewire or S/PDIF. Once these are received, they are all eventually converted to either S/PDIF and then I2S or directly to I2S bus. a) does this impact jitter of the Lossless file in anyway ? also what would the difference between an I2S and an USB interface be in this case as the clock is not really the original clock ? Jitter is independent usually of the format that the data is stored. As for the transport format, such as USB, the clock is embedded in the data and must be recovered at the receiving device if it uses Synchronous Adaptive mode. This usually requires a PLL. I2S is not a native interface for a PC or Mac, so it must be generated from another interface, such as USB, Firewire or S/PDIF. I2S is the native interface for the D/A chip, so all interfaces must end-up converted to I2S. I2S is not the original clock in the PC, but is synchronous to the original clock. b) Can the original information without any timing errors be reconstructed from this using an external reclocker like the empirical audio device OR Monarchy ? Reclockers like the Pace-Car 2 can generate a totally new clock which is synchronous or tracking to the original clock, but with lower jitter. The original information is only data, not timing. The timing is only implied by the standard frequency that is used at recording time, when the analog data was converted to digital. If the A/D clock had jitter, then the record timing will be innacurate. This cannot be fixed once the data is stored as a digital recording. If the D/A clock has jitter, then the playback timing will be innacurate. This jitter can be minimized with reclockers, upsamplers etc.. c) If the clock is not present will an external DAC just assume the input to be as per its own clock. (If the rip were done by CDROM using the same clock freq as a DAc give any added benefit) DAC's dont have clocks in general. The only clocks in typical DAC's are for upsampling. DAC's rely on the clock embedded in the incoming datastream, whether it is S/PDIF, AES, Toslink. DAC's recover the clock(s) using hardware. If the interface to the DAC is I2S, then the clocks are discrete so they drive the D/A directly without needing clock recovery. Ripping has nothing to do with the timing accuracy of a data file. It is simply data. There is data and then there is the timing of when the data is presented to the D/A chip. This timing is not stored on the disk. Only the data is stored on the disk. The timing is recreated at playback time. No relationship to the music timing or beat. Steve N. Empirical Audio

I guess Thats why the empirical audio device is better than the Trends..its in the clock and quality of components.


One question I have, Using a ASIO for Foobar is recomended for windows but i understand that in the end ASIO uses the Soundcard of the PC. so it is critical that the soundcard be good ....that may rule out the laptop option as a good option ?

Thanks AN.. will a 5V dc adaptor do ?

Usually, the adaptors ( wall warts ) arer available in 6Volts DC, or 9 Volts DC or 12 Volts DC,

The ^VDC is too close to the 4.8 Volts battery voltage, to be meaningfully controlled by a single external resistor. ( These Wall Warts have unspecified and unpredictable regulation, ie the Voltage varies SIGNIOFICANTLY with the current drawn from them.

For the Charger, I would recommend a 9 Volts DC Wall Wart with a 30 Ohms, 1 Watt resistor.

Instead you can use 3 resistors, each of 10 Ohms ( easily available ).

Each 10 Ohm resistor can be Half Watt or 1 Watt.

You will need to charge for 15 Hours...

Hi Arj,

Thanks for Steve N's informative past.

I believe it re-iterrates what I have been saying, an would like to highlight the following :

1. I2S is the native interface for the D/A chip, so all interfaces must end-up converted to I2S.

2. The original information is only data, not timing.

3. Ripping has nothing to do with the timing accuracy of a data file. It is simply data. There is data and then there is the timing of when the data is presented to the D/A chip. This timing is not stored on the disk. Only the data is stored on the disk. The timing is recreated at playback time. No relationship to the music timing or beat.

Arj said:

One question I have, Using a ASIO for Foobar is recomended for windows but i understand that in the end ASIO uses the Soundcard of the PC. so it is critical that the soundcard be good ....that may rule out the laptop option as a good option ?

I am not sure regarding the context of yr query.

1. If you are using Foobar and the Laptop's own sound card ( ie feeding your Pre / integrated amp with the Audio output for the sound card ) then ofcouse, the Laptop's built in sound card is a bottle neck.

2. However, you can use Foobar, and feed an External USB DAC such as the UD-10 or better products.

In such a case, the Laptop's sound card is completely irrelevant.

Amp_nut, Arj, maybe y'all want to have a look at Benchmarks's new PRE http://www.benchmark...g-converter/dac1-pre

Thanks shahrukh, I remember reading about this somewhere.

The DAC1 USB version without the pre was also very good. My feeling about Benchmark even as a DAC is that they did not catch up to their potential because of their "Pro" background..which is a contradiction in itself as we strive to reproduce the "Live" which is primarily the studio recording

Yes, Shahrukh, I have looked closely at the Benchmark USB DAC, it even has a (analog ) Volume control, enabling it to replace a Pre amp too !

I did get a chance to listen to the Benchmark, a few months ago, in Pune, to the person I sold my Wadia iDock.

I was not familiar with the entire music system ( he actaully had 2 separate systems !

My speculation ( since I was not familiar with the system sound ) was that the Benchmark was a very neutral DAC - VERY neutral, almost to a fault, where it did not quite get the emotion accross.

I know, this DAC is rated A by Stereopile ....

Just my 2 cents....

It seemed just up your alley. Anyway, I didn't know it was a S'phile Class A product. Just saw the ad on the homepage and clicked.

BTW, any links where one can view the list of all the S'phile Class A and Class B products???

Ampnut

If any device does not get the emotion across then in my books its not neutral. Its robbing the music of something.

Very often people call a lifeless musical presentation as "neutral" for want of a better word.

I guess its another of those things one can argue endlessly about :-)

Manek

Very often people call a lifeless musical presentation as "neutral" for want of a better word.

SO TRUE ! So True !

A case of ( as my idol - J Lindsley Hood once remarked )

" Throwing out the baby with the Bath Water ! "

In fact the word "neutral" is SO OVER-used... It more often than not typifies a 'Lifeless' sound... IMHO

Maybe I just like my music with balls, if that is what the 'neutral' camp calls live music...

Amp_Nut schrieb:

My speculation ( since I was not familiar with the system sound ) was that the Benchmark was a very neutral DAC - VERY neutral, almost to a fault, where it did not quite get the emotion accross. I know, this DAC is rated A by Stereopile .... Just my 2 cents....

Hi ampnut I had heard the original DAC1 (no USB) with a Totem Mani speaker ..dont remember the amp ..it was some SS one.
In that system my memory of the sound was smooth and fluid (I dont remember any unpleasantness anyway !). . the above sound you mentioned may have been a system preference by the system owner ?

AN, Bel Canto has also launched a USB to SPDIF converter !
http://www.belcantodesign.com/news_usb_link.html and this is at500 USD is much cheaper than the empirical audio product as well ! of course no idea of sound quality comparison yet.


AND
Meridian acquires Sooloos !
http://stereophile.com/news/meridian_acquires_sooloos/

In that system my memory of the sound was smooth and fluid

Arj, Did the Emotion come thru ?

Shahrukh said :

BTW, any links where one can view the list of all the S'phile Class A and Class B products???

Hi Shahrukh,

I have not been able to find it on their website.

PM me yr postal address, and I will send you the magazine.

However, I have the following observations :

1. All Musical Fidelity & Ayre Products will be on the list.

As an example of the lavish praise ... a recent issue COVER said " 8th Wonder Of The World" for the new Ayre Preamp.

2. The prices indicated are completely out of whack... they are the prices when the product was reviewed... maybe 3 years ago. Current prices are often 30% more than the indicated list price, so dont use the prices for value-for-money judgements.

3. The brief 1 para descriptions are frequently irrelevant to the sonic qualities for which the product was nominated.

As an example, the Ayre Amp description only talks of an inductor used in the power supply, and not a word about its sonic attributes.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Arj, Did the Emotion come thru ?

I would have liked to say yes or no..but i just do not remember.
It was early days in Audiophiledom for me and i used to look only at sound stage, bass, mid range and treble in those days.

Thanks AN. I'll PM you my address. Also, I happened to see a new product by Chord teh other day at ProFX called the Chordette. It's supposed to be a bluetooth DAC (though I saw NO digital inputs (???!!)) Has anyone heard it? It's priced soemwhere around 30k or so. Seems to be worth a check out. Sadly, no reviews on the net so far

Shahrukh thanks for sharing the info !

Bluetooth from what i know has bandwidth issues and can get lossy over a 5M distance...apparently they are targetting Phone audio interface to hifi

but it does have the option if a USB in as well..so might be a lower end USB dac with Bluetooth capability.

http://www.audioaffa...wProd&productId=1136
Specifications:

* Harmonic distortion: < -100 db (1khz, 24-bit @ 44.1khz sample frequency)
* Channel separation: 100db @ 1khz
* Dynamic range: 112db
* Switchable digital inputs: 1 x USB ( b type )
* 1 x Bluetooth supporting A2DP stereo audio
* Analogue outputs: 2 X RCA Phono
* Sample frequencies: 44KHz – 96KHz
* Output max 2v rms. unbalanced
* Output impedance: 75 ? (short circuit protected)
* Dimensions in mm: 160 x 70 x 40mm (Width x Height x Depth)
* Weight: 0.4Kg

Price: $786.00 or £399

Yeah - for Chord taking out such a "budget" product, one would guess it is targetted to the not-so-critical listener. Then again for a company of Chord's repute to come out with something like this, makes me think again. Will try and demo it over the weekend.

That would be great !do post your view on it...ideally take your laptop and play some lossless file to hear how it sounds. what source would yo be able to compare it with at the store ?


So with Wadia, Bel Canto , Meridian and now Chord all making progress into Computer based Audio ,things seem to be moving rather fast in the HDD transport direction

Hmmm... they have some Denon CDPs there - so I guess that'll have to be it. Wouldn't be fare comapring it to the Chord electronics (which I nevertheless will, I think) because of the two extemes in price points.

Shahrukh schrieb:

BTW, any links where one can view the list of all the S'phile Class A and Class B products???

They have it only in the magazine..

but components of the year are online
http://www.stereophile.com/features/1208poty/index1.html

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Hi Arj, 1. I2S is the native interface for the D/A chip, so all interfaces must end-up converted to I2S. 2. The original information is only data, not timing. 3. Ripping has nothing to do with the timing accuracy of a data file. It is simply data. There is data and then there is the timing of when the data is presented to the D/A chip. This timing is not stored on the disk. Only the data is stored on the disk. The timing is recreated at playback time. No relationship to the music timing or beat.

Jitter ?

sivat schrieb:

Jitter ?

Siva, based on the above, would not Jitter be a factor only once the conversion to SPDIF occurs ?

Background :

-> WAV/MP3/FLAC are all formats that are based on computers are processed in data-blocks. No timing issues here

-> On a CD though, you get a PCM format which was not originally designed for computers. PCM rides on the system clock (hence the need for high quality clocks from the likes of TentLabs, etc.,) and therefore the timing issue...whereas computer formats are processed independent of system clock.

Please refer to an earlier discussion we had about the Linn media player.

Specific Answer to Arj's question :

It is NOT only the process of conversion to SPDIF or the actual transmission (using SPDIF) that cause Jitter. It is caused at various levels, including transmission of data within the system (even if it is I2S). This is the reason why people spend mega-bucks on good quality transport.

that means the Clock is anyway lost when you have a flac ?


Siva, do all CDPs have the same clock frequency ? from what I have figured out, each manufacturer has a different "standard" clock they use. does this not mean that the conversion from PCM will vary from transport to transport itself ?

Arj schrieb:

that means the Clock is anyway lost when you have a flac ? Siva, do all CDPs have the same clock frequency ? from what I have figured out, each manufacturer has a different "standard" clock they use. does this not mean that the conversion from PCM will vary from transport to transport itself ?

FLAC is a computer format..which is in the form of Data Blocks, but when you convert it to PCM and send it over SPDIF, it will again be clocked. But it makes no sense to convert FLAC to PCM ....unless you want to hook up the data to a conventional DAC that expects a PCM stream.

No. Different CD players use different clock freq, depending on thier circuit..

Regards
Siva.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

The ^VDC is too close to the 4.8 Volts battery voltage, to be meaningfully controlled by a single external resistor. ( These Wall Warts have unspecified and unpredictable regulation, ie the Voltage varies SIGNIOFICANTLY with the current drawn from them.

AN sir, i made a battery pack with 1.2V Ni-Mh X 4, and it DOES improve the dynamics by a great deal over using the USB only for power. of course am using the ASIO driver.

Been curious to know...would there be a difference in audio when a laptop is played off the battery and mains ? Provided it has decent audio circuitry.......

Manek

Doubt if there would be any difference as direct power is not used in audio in computers

maybe the soundcard might have an impact but if you are taking direct USB out it may not be impacted...but this is just my guess

These are very interesting posts but unfortunately they are buried in a thread where they will not be found by many users. Would be good if a new thread was started for this topic.

very true Sir,
any more website for download?
Movies or Music ?
Regards
HP

try this
link deleted