Dream setup.

You're the tiger Sub!! Only you can tame him!! Abhi, kya bolti tu?

Shahrukh schrieb:

You're the tiger Sub!! Only you can tame him!! Abhi, kya bolti tu?

Ha Ha...only a Nad owner can tame me

You're the tiger Sub!! Only you can tame him!! Abhi, kya bolti tu?

Thanks for calling me a tiger and turning AB Pani into a femme...

Ha Ha...only a Nad owner can tame me

Then go ahead and buy two NAD's.


Back to topic...

I want to have a Plinius SA 250 or SA REF in my list...aaarggh why ain't I grow money on trees..

Do you like that amp ?
The Plinius SA 250 MK IV or the SA Reference ?

Would you put it in your dream set up ?

What speaker would you use it with ?

Inputs would be appreciated.
Thanks.

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

I want to have a Plinius SA 250 or SA REF in my list...aaarggh why ain't I grow money on trees.. :D

In that case..more often than not you wouldnt be able to afford the tree

In that case..more often than not you wouldnt be able to afford the tree

SShh don't talk about Plinius affordability there are again going to be some dealer fights here..

Hello Gentlemen,
Can we try and forget the NAD's + Money + Tree and what ever else you guys are talking about; please.
This topic is DREAM SET UPS !!! So let us all suggest what we want to have or like or aspire towards.
Thanks.

Do you like that amp ? The Plinius SA 250 MK IV or the SA Reference ? Would you put it in your dream set up ? What speaker would you use it with ? Inputs would be appreciated.

Well these two aren't very different are they???? But I will prefer SA REF, But why is that big question mark as to why it has to get into one's dream set up??? Is is bad for you??
Speakers as mentioned earlier

Dunlavy SC-VI or Sonus Faber Stradivaari Homage

Can we try and forget the NAD's + Money + Tree and what ever else you guys are talking about; please.

No they are valid here as NAD is ABHI's nightmare and Money tree is his dream to raelise other small audio dreams.

Oh ! Sorry. I must have missed that.

That particular Dunlavy I have not auditioned. But the company has shut down.
The SF I have heard on several occasions, never with SA Reference. It sounded best to me with the Mac's [& I do not like McCintosh]. A good speaker none the less. Rather good for classical music.

Then I guess, Abhi has not written about his 'dream set up'. Care to shed some light ? Please...........

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Can we try and forget the NAD's

Yes, can we please let it BEE!

Then I guess, Abhi has not written about his 'dream set up'. Care to shed some light ? Please...........

I guess he already got his Plinius 8200, Dyn 1.3

Ya sad Dunlavy has shut down, but I heard it in Zurich and liked it very much.. hope to find a nice used one owned by an old man..

Neway what's your take on SA REF Bhagwan... be candid.

Abhi has not written about his 'dream set up'. Care to shed some light ? Please...........

To be frank...I am yet to hear something extraordinary .
The other day we were listening to a 25 Lakh Chord rack setup...but there was nothing extraordinary about them.

Just dont want to jot down some esoteric brands which I have no idea about (sonically).

From what I have heard till date the Plinius SA-Ref + Plinius M-Ref (preamp) are definitely in my dreams .

Neway what's your take on SA REF Bhagwan... be candid.

Sir, I would love to, but I have dear friends that use it. I could surely discuss Peter Thomsons designs in detail, but not in public for sure. My Apologies. !!

abhi.pani schrieb:

The other day we were listening to a 25 Lakh Chord rack setup...but there was nothing extraordinary about them.

Hmmm... I'd agree! I spent quite some time with the Chord pre-power setup at ProFx fronted by JM Labs Profile (I think) BE speakers. They were ok. But nothing woweee!! A tad bright IMO.

The other day we were listening to a 25 Lakh Chord rack setup...but there was nothing extraordinary about them.

Sir, I have heard they play rather well with Zingali & more so with JM Labs. The Alto Utopia BE + Chord is one of my top 15 set ups in the world that I may have auditioned. It is all about the 'set up' & 'the room' !!!!
I like Chord, just cannot justify its price. That is the problem I have with it.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

The other day we were listening to a 25 Lakh Chord rack setup...but there was nothing extraordinary about them. Sir, I have heard they play rather well with Zingali & more so with JM Labs. The Alto Utopia BE + Chord is one of my top 15 set ups in the world that I may have auditioned. It is all about the 'set up' & 'the room' !!!! I like Chord, just cannot justify its price. That is the problem I have with it.

Hmmm...whatever you say is possible...afterall you are Bhagwan .

I havent heard the JM Labs Utopia series speakers but I have heard the Chorus, Cobalt, Electra and Profile series speakers...the later 3 were good but nothing to write home about . In each of their price band I felt there were better speakers available.

I admit that I didnt hear the chord setup in a proper listening environment .

abhi.pani schrieb:

Abhi has not written about his 'dream set up'. Care to shed some light ? Please........... The other day we were listening to a 25 Lakh Chord rack setup...but there was nothing extraordinary about them.

Hmm out of curiosity what speakers were they running ?

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Neway what's your take on SA REF Bhagwan... be candid. Sir, I would love to, but I have dear friends that use it. I could surely discuss Peter Thomsons designs in detail, but not in public for sure. My Apologies. !!

I thought the amps were designed by Gary Morrison..

Shahrukh schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: The other day we were listening to a 25 Lakh Chord rack setup...but there was nothing extraordinary about them. Hmmm... I'd agree! I spent quite some time with the Chord pre-power setup at ProFx fronted by JM Labs Profile (I think) BE speakers. They were ok. But nothing woweee!! A tad bright IMO.

I too heard that one. I believe it is the setup which is the culprit there. Hard to believe that such expensive equipment can sound so ordinary. I wonder !

Speakers: Magnepan MG-12
Nothing like magneplanars / electrostats for midrange purity. Celine Dion sounded fabulous on these.

Amp: Bryston 60W
These have a 20-yr warranty. That's something to drool over.

Source: Don't really know

Cables: Sufficiently thick to carry the current

Notes:
1. I have actually heard what I mention here. (I really can't express a view based on a 'hyped' press review)
2. This is an Indian middle-class dream. (I have heard the Avante Garde trios, but not sure whether they will fit through the door )

Shahrukh schrieb:

Hmmm... I'd agree! I spent quite some time with the Chord pre-power setup at ProFx fronted by JM Labs Profile (I think) BE speakers. They were ok. But nothing woweee!! A tad bright IMO.

are you sure it was the JM labs profile ? ...thats a pretty badly setup system IMHO. and i did not know that Be technology has trickled that low down into the range. the profile is primarily meant for HT

in that case you should definitely not blame the chord for brightness (Are you sure the source was the culprit ???) i find it very difficult to drill down to individual component characteristics by listening to a system as a whole and wholeheartedly admire and lookup to people who can...especially in just one hearing session! (BTW shahrukh this is just a general statement and not targetted at you ! just in case )

Check these out the Top 20 most expensive speakers in the world


1st to 10th

11th to 20th

this is what is perhaps meant as a Wall of sound !!

Arj schrieb:

Check these out the Top 20 most expensive speakers in the world 1st to 10th 11th to 20th this is what is perhaps meant as a Wall of sound !!

Looks fantastic

Arj schrieb:

Shahrukh schrieb: Hmmm... I'd agree! I spent quite some time with the Chord pre-power setup at ProFx fronted by JM Labs Profile (I think) BE speakers. They were ok. But nothing woweee!! A tad bright IMO. in that case you should definitely not blame the chord for brightness (Are you sure the source was the culprit ???) i find it very difficult to drill down to individual component characteristics by listening to a system as a whole and wholeheartedly admire and lookup to people who can...especially in just one hearing session! (BTW shahrukh this is just a general statement and not targetted at you ! just in case )

No offence taken. You're right -Can't really blame an individual component. I was talking about the system as a whole. Plus the room waslso quite boomy. Also I plan to go there again. Maybe today itself - if time permits! Will keep the forum posted.

are you sure it was the JM labs profile ? ...thats a pretty badly setup system IMHO. and i did not know that Be technology has trickled that low down into the range. the profile is primarily meant for HT

Mmmm... this is what suprised me too - I saw the Be tweeter but the guy at ProFX insisted it was the Profile range. AFAIK, that range has been discontinued! So no... not VERY sure about that!

I too heard that one. I believe it is the setup which is the culprit there. Hard to believe that such expensive equipment can sound so ordinary. I wonder !

Seems soulforged heard the same setup. Did you have similar observations, sir?

Shahrukh schrieb:

I too heard that one. I believe it is the setup which is the culprit there. Hard to believe that such expensive equipment can sound so ordinary. I wonder ! Seems soulforged heard the same setup. Did you have similar observations, sir?

Shahrukh, I think you mean Square Wave, not me. I've not yet heard the new stuff @ ProFX...

ooops!! sorry for that

Yes, I meant Square Wave.

Neutral schrieb:

Speakers: Magnepan MG-12 Nothing like magneplanars / electrostats for midrange purity. Celine Dion sounded fabulous on these. Amp: Bryston 60W These have a 20-yr warranty. That's something to drool over. )

I heard two different Maggies at the Highend and liked them, despite the Jeff Rowland electronics. Maggies are said to profit from powerful amps. I heard several at the show and the only one I really liked was the Electrocompaniet Nemo (in combination with a Kef Reference). Would have been nice to hear that beast in combination with a Maggie. Has anybody listened to a Macintosh? They say they have improved the flaws of AB amps by using transformers, but I am sceptical.
BTW: The Martion Orgon COULD be listened to at the show, but a block away at an old people`s home.

el`Ol schrieb:

Neutral schrieb: I heard two different Maggies at the Highend and liked them, despite the Jeff Rowland electronics. Maggies are said to profit from powerful amps. I heard several at the show and the only one I really liked was the Electrocompaniet Nemo (in combination with a Kef Reference). Would have been nice to hear that beast in combination with a Maggie. Has anybody listened to a Macintosh? They say they have improved the flaws of AB amps by using transformers, but I am sceptical. BTW: The Martion Orgon COULD be listened to at the show, but a block away at an old people`s home.

Sir,

I have lost you here;
You were there @ Munich High End & you listened to the 3.6 with the JR's in the room next to Eventus Audio + Souloutions Audio & LIKED IT ? I do not know what to say. I am completely lost.

Can you please try and shed some light on what was the 'best sounding room' to you @ HE 2007 ? Maybe the top 3 set ups & what were the worst 3 sounding rooms ?
Please, your suggestions and comments would be appreciated.
Thanks.

Hello Baghwan!

My top three are:
1) Martion Orgon
The midrange is closest to reality of all systems, and in my eyes this is the most important criterium.
2) Kef Reference with Electrocompaniet Nemo
Very audiophile with lots of soul, a pleasure to listen to
3) Burmester
Also a very audiophile setup.

Out of ranking:
The Wiener Lautsprecher Manufaktur
The PAC tweeter has by far the best transients of all tweeters I heard, but the overall sound is a bit harsh. I also found that midrange and bass didn`t match very well.
Piega
Outstanding transparency, but altogether no good setup.
Wilson
The midrange had some kind of "magic" I didn´t hear from other systems, but in my eyes this is just a strange gimmic. Expected more neutrality from such an official reference speaker.

What I really didn`t like:
1) MBL
These 4000W coffins sound awfully electronic, like 80ies electronics made in Japan, the imaging is too diffuse.
2) Avantgarde horns (in several rooms).
Have horn colorations
3) Tannoy
Horn colorations, muddy midbass.

Regards,
Oliver

Hi Oliver !

Nice observations;

Our dislikes are on the same lines.
Accuphase + Tannoy - very poor
MBL - worst that could have been managed
Avant Garde - also very bad [most of the time I have encountered the same result]

However, what you like is very much diffieret from what I liked.

The Burmester was nice but not great.
The Maggies did not like.
The KEF was with Chord [I think] next to the B & W room, near the Audio Date + Argento & next to Fischer & Fischer.
Did they use Electrocompaniet or Chord, I am a bit confused. But this set up was surely better than the Maun [on the ground floor].

I liked the Issophone & Litho [Brinkmann Room] as the best set up & a chinese brand [Jung Sun] on the ground floor, next to Luxman booth.

I have heard the Martion Audio many years back in Frankfurt & had really liked it. This time around, I did not go to his room [out of the show] & hence I missed it. Sad, very sad indeed.
But, I am sure it must have been great !!

Hello Baghwan!

I find it natural that the opinions differ the more, the more a device takes an audiophile approach. MBL tries to reach reality and fails, the Orgon succeeds.
I would be interested what you think about Martin Logan, Cabasse and ATC? With these speakers I had the feeling there is something missing, but it is hard to describe what.

el`Ol schrieb:

Hello Baghwan! Martin Logan, Cabasse and ATC? With these speakers I had the feeling there is something missing, but it is hard to describe what.

Cabasse has a correct approach - from a technical stand point - but the final result has always made me feel that something was not correct. ATC I like. Have heard it at several different places & it is a nice product.
ML has changed ownership. There will be a lot of new things that will be launched @ CES 2008. It is trying to play that 'lifestyle' game & 'american personalised' theme etc. On the sound front, I had actually liked its Prodigy, but the other speakers have that sense of mis match etc. Fit & Finish is very nice. Over all not a bad speaker.

Did either of you hear the Lithophon Speaker, the one that uses the Heil air motion transformer?(Pictures below).
What did you think of it?
How did it rank with you?
Jochen was raving about it!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

The Maggies did not like.

Hi Bhagwan,

Would like to know what you didn't like about the Magnepan? I find their mid-range good, which makes them pleasant sounding for vocals. Perhaps, I have missed out on some of their finer points that you have noticed

Shahrukh schrieb:

Arj schrieb: Shahrukh schrieb: Hmmm... I'd agree! I spent quite some time with the Chord pre-power setup at ProFx fronted by JM Labs Profile (I think) BE speakers. They were ok. But nothing woweee!! A tad bright IMO. in that case you should definitely not blame the chord for brightness (Are you sure the source was the culprit ???) i find it very difficult to drill down to individual component characteristics by listening to a system as a whole and wholeheartedly admire and lookup to people who can...especially in just one hearing session! (BTW shahrukh this is just a general statement and not targetted at you ! just in case ) No offence taken. You're right -Can't really blame an individual component. I was talking about the system as a whole. Plus the room waslso quite boomy. Also I plan to go there again. Maybe today itself - if time permits! Will keep the forum posted. are you sure it was the JM labs profile ? ...thats a pretty badly setup system IMHO. and i did not know that Be technology has trickled that low down into the range. the profile is primarily meant for HT Mmmm... this is what suprised me too - I saw the Be tweeter but the guy at ProFX insisted it was the Profile range. AFAIK, that range has been discontinued! So no... not VERY sure about that! I too heard that one. I believe it is the setup which is the culprit there. Hard to believe that such expensive equipment can sound so ordinary. I wonder ! Seems soulforged heard the same setup. Did you have similar observations, sir?

Hi Shahrukh, Arj,

I definitely feel it is the speakers and the setup that caused the very ordinary sound I heard. It was very un-natural clinical sound with a thickly draped veil between you and the performer. It is one of those HT speakers with fake trickle down technology that does not deliver. I wouldn’t blame the chord electronics unless something is broken.

I personally think those weren't the Profiles! AFAIK, the profiles have that "boat-tail" tweeter enclosure!
But the guy at the store was INSISTING!!

i think the new chorus and cobalt ranges are also like that.

it very well m ight be the new cobalt line which i believe has a new "Profile"

Still a badly matched system IMHO.

Well I liked the Lithophon/Brinkmann setup too, but there were better sounds at the show.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Well I liked the Lithophon/Brinkmann setup too, but there were better sounds at the show. Regards Deaf.

Top 5 set-ups though !! What do you say ?

I like the L & B a lot; Specially on the last day !

Top 5, I don't know, maybe 6-7. My milage may vary from others.
Deaf.

Oh!
Jochen used terms like "best spkrs I've ever heard"
so I was wondering...
Hand never heard of Lithophon before tho I was aware of the Heil air motion technology which is pretty old.
Wonder why no one else had used it in the last 10-20 Yrs.
I guess sonicality also lies in the ear of the Hearer!

Well returning to this old topic, I just came back from Denmark and heard my dream setup again. I was accompanied by a music lover who owns a pretty serious system already. It sounds good in his house, has minor issues, but all systems have issues if one were to go around looking for them. Any ways the gent has been blessed with pretty good hearing. Hearing Stravinsky Firebird on the setup, he just had this seriously dazed look in his eyes that said, MY GOD, and I just cracked up laughing loudly along with the system designer and his friend who happens to own a high end electronics brand. The electronics brand guy then puts on Amused To Death, while I was in the hot seat, I swear on anything, the piano was 75-80 degrees to my right 5-6 feet away from me, ditto for the speech to my left but a bit closer, and this at least 10-11 feet INFRONT of the loudspeaker baffle plane. The entire production of the different sounds stretched 25 feet across in a 180 degree panoramic hemisphere with me in the centre, till till till the aeroplane flew above my head from behind completing the entire sonic spectacular like I have never experienced.
That my friends is the best, it is what I am working on to bring to our country commercially.Hope I succeed with mucho Forum members blessings.
Regards
Deaf.

Deaf, I envy you. something like that is still a dream for me

the religious equivalent of it could well be called "meeting God"

Hi Deaf,
Amused to Death a wonderful recording. Even though it is a studio desk created soundstage it has been my favourite for checking imaging. But I have never heard 25feet wide in my set up, the airplane starts from above my head bu only slightly behind. Anyway will listen to it today to see where all the sounds come from and would love to share it with you for your valuable comments.
Regards
Anil

ani schrieb:

Hi Deaf, Amused to Death a wonderful recording. Even though it is a studio desk created soundstage it has been my favourite for checking imaging. But I have never heard 25feet wide in my set up, the airplane starts from above my head bu only slightly behind. Anyway will listen to it today to see where all the sounds come from and would love to share it with you for your valuable comments. Regards Anil

Dear Anil,
Add to that a physicality of size and weight unparalleled in my experience.
BTW Robert E.Greene of the Absolute Sound has heard and described this very same setup in Issue 124 of the Absolute Sound. He is a very accomplished reviewer, orchestral musician, mathematician and leads the pack in reviewing digital room correction devices. He still considers this setup as the best he has ever heard.Quote: The system has a far lower level of such(room related) residual signature than any stereo system I have heard.
Think about it.
Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Dear Anil, Add to that a physicality of size and weight unparalleled in my experience. BTW Robert E.Greene of the Absolute Sound has heard and described this very same setup in Issue 124 of the Absolute Sound. He is a very accomplished reviewer, orchestral musician, mathematician and leads the pack in reviewing digital room correction devices. He still considers this setup as the best he has ever heard.Quote: The system has a far lower level of such(room related) residual signature than any stereo system I have heard. Think about it. Deaf.

Dear Deaf,

I believe you are referring to the design of Ole LC & PL. I have read the review.
They said - "An audio system is a pair of small boxes inside a large box. You have to design them together"
Room Acoustics is the key.
Would really love to hear this set up someday.
Do you think that kind of reproduction is even possible unless you replicate the same environment.

Regards
SNV

Yes it is.
Ole is a very very dear friend.We are working on one such setup in India, the full monty, the first after 12 years. A cheaper version will be available for real world money at about 15 lacs, including acoustics. He is working on using Manger drivers for the cheaper one. An starting level system at 8-10 lacs will also be available by 3rd quarter next year.This will use dynamic drivers.
The idea is simple, get the full solution if you are willing to give a dedicated space, custom designed for yourself. This is the truest path, where room and speaker work as one singular organism, rather than expensive speaker boxes fighting expensive real estate for unpredictable results. I am aware that there will be skeptics and few takers for this idea, and the price is high by Indian standards, but for those who have an open mind and the financial means, I cannot think of a finer solution.
Deaf.

Hi Deaf,
Just read Rob E Green's review about the setup, very interesting stuff. isn't it sad the we we are neglecting or ignoring the most important component of sound reproduction

The price point you mentioned for complete setup of about Rs.10 lakhs sounds very promising, if the complete system can be set up within this budget it will be just like Ratan Tata's Rs.1 lakh car

Wishing you all success in this and future ventures.

Regards
Anil

Dear Anil,
Thank you for your encouragement. When the pilot 10 lac setup is up and going within 150 days, I will call you for sure, while it is being calibrated, if such things interest you. Well actually Ratan Tata is giving a much higher value for investment, the equivalent would be if we ever manage it in 5-6 lacs, which unfortunately seems not worth doing unless we get over 35-40 such setups in the next 24 months, unlikely. Hence the price.
Regards Deaf.