How do you listen to Music !

Arj,
Very nice topic. Passive listening is not helping this hobby. I see friends who own iPods and other gadgets. These gadgets are used during work/gym/etc hours. They are surprised to hear that I "sit" on the floor with a pillow or 2 and do "active" listening. The remedy is - invite such friends/cousins to your place and make them listen to either their music or yours. Chances are that they will be surprised at what they have missed all the time. I have personally converted 3 non-audio-enthusiasts into audio-enthusiasts. They started with dumping the cheapo earphones that came with the gadgets and started with Senn PX 100 / Ultimate Audio Super.Fi 3. Now these guys own a big-rig, much better than mine..but hey..atleast they are aware

Bump

Hi,

I think critical listening is stressful at times as one of my friend rightly puts it, its fun to a certain extent but one cant always sit like a doc in front of the system and analyze

I bet most of us who have lost it in this hobby stop listening to music and just listen to the sound and keep tuning your system I know I do this once or twice a week its a long road to nirvana and I believe audiophiles with the best of systems keep changing and experimenting.

Eventually you start enjoying the music not the sound when things start sounding subjectively good.


Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

Hi, I think critical listening is stressful at times as one of my friend rightly puts it, its fun to a certain extent but one cant always sit like a doc in front of the system and analyze Satyam.

Guess who?
Regards Deaf

Ya, my wife can never figure out how I sit rigt in front of my speakers in the heat (I put the fan off, it adds unwanted noise) and listen.

I used to like it when I blasted my Aiwa at home with some of the latest chartbusters. Now I just analyze. Ignorance is bliss I say!

Surprisingly, I never analyze radio. When it's FM it's 99% passive listening. Go figure!

Hi !

Music always there for me whenever I'm home or in the car.

Passive vs. Active is almost 1:1 It's only at the day's end that I sit in a dimly lit room to "actively" enjoy music.

Critical analysis is done only when the system is now or a new component is added. Later, once a particular album has grown on me, I would pay critical attention to the various elements of its composition. But remember that when you get critical, you don't really enjoy music - the primary purpose.

I am an Eye Surgeon and I have tried listening to music while operating on patients. But I have never really liked that and in fact found it distracting. I would like to know how others find music while they are working.

Warm regards

Sanjay

Are there just 18 of us around. That would mean on some posts we have about 100 odd hits each!

Jeeves schrieb:

Are there just 18 of us around. That would mean on some posts we have about 100 odd hits each!

Dude that really is ridiculous,just 18 idiots,hehehehe,iPOD passive listening wins hands down i guess.
Regards Deaf.

18..hmmm..and I can see that there are a hell lot of audiophiles in India now, than there were in 2000/2001. I believe that was the first show at Hotel Sea Princess (Bandra) where I went to see the show. Foreign companies were just coming to set shops. I heard Quads, PSBs, BlueRoom, Krells, etc. Kapil Dev was there to inaugrate Cadance's newest loudspeaker at that show (I met him at Cadence room). I was thrilled about the audio scene in India. Before that, I used to buy stuff from Heera-Panna. And not many options were available. Then I had 2 go 2 US for work. And this is a paradise for audiophiles...hell lot of options available here. And luckily 1 day I found this forum. I cud not believe what I was reading..so many Indian audiophiles in 1 place. I am looking forward 2 return back permenantly in 2 years. And I hope that this forum is alive and kicking.

Has it occured to anyone that we should have an Advt. of this forum in a leading Audiophile magazine in India? That will make people aware of this forum. Internet access is getting common now-a-days. I don't know how the advt works, but that is 1 option that we can look at.

Dear Milpai,

There have always been plenty of audiophiles in India and plenty of equipment options too. Some of the brands that I can recall from my school days (and that a long time ago):

Sonodyne
Cosmic
Woodstock
Norge
Philips
AIWA
Kenwood
Technics
Teac
Bush

Its only recently that Indian market has been bombarded with exotic foreign brands. And of course the arrival of internet and audio magazine have helped audiophiles come together & know each other.

Regards

Sanjay

milpai schrieb:

Has it occured to anyone that we should have an Advt. of this forum in a leading Audiophile magazine in India? That will make people aware of this forum. Internet access is getting common now-a-days. I don't know how the advt works, but that is 1 option that we can look at.

Hi Milpai,

I like the idea. Bbut may be it would be better if the moderators could write to the audio magazines to review this (& other) forum in their magazine.

Manek, may be you should consider that. And since Jay from SNV has advertised in What HiFi, he could influence them.

Regards

Sanjay

The answer could well be that the majority of audiophiles in the country who dont know about this forum are true active listeners who dont waste time surfing!

Jeeves schrieb:

The answer could well be that the majority of audiophiles in the country who dont know about this forum are true active listeners who dont waste time surfing! ;)

Hi Sanjay,
You are right these companies did exist. I was not too inclined to Sony, Kenwood, Aiwa, Akai etc. I was a not-so-avid reader of Stereo Review (now Sound and Vision) since 1988. I used to go to V.T. and get old (2-3 months back) copies and followed the audio scene then. Most of my friends had the Sonys, Kenwoods, etc. I saved up enough for the next couple of years and ended up buying Bose AM 5 series-II with Yamaha amp, Kenwood CD player and Technics cassette deck. I was into pop then.
Then 1 day I went to Pune to see the Cadence factory (which was closed...being Aug 15). And ended up at Cadence's owner's (Ajay Shirke - a very humble and thorough & down to earth gentleman) mansion/bunglow. He demoed me why vinly was better than CD on his ultra-expensive gear. I was hooked to classical/jazz then. That was when I realized the shortcomings of my system. So my search started for better equipment. And that search ended when I visited the show I mentioned earlier. But you know..I had to leave India. I am so so happy that so many options are available there now. That alone is a reason enough to come back

Regards

Milind

Doc,
I personally would like the word to spread via fellow audiophiles i.e "word of mouth". We members can spread the word to our audiophile friends or people one meets at audio shops and other gatherings. BTW to set the record straight, this forum is not an India specific forum, its just that when I became a member I did manage to get a lot of people onto it from India and since then we have a lot of Indian audiphiles as members...and I would like to keep it that way..everyones welcome

Spread the good word guys 'n' gals.....

....and another thing...the posts on this forum do find their way into google searches and that is would also bring in members so knowingly or unknowlingly our forum is being advertised via search engines....love the internet !

Manek.

Hi All,
Can I get back to'how do you listen to music'? My kids have a joke: they call my aquarium my television. I often sit in front of it and look at the fish. I find it far more interesting than the idiot box. I often listen to music while doing this, although I may not be in front of the speakers. Ofcourse I also enjoy planting myself in front of the monitors, but only late at night and not every day. I cant listen when I am at work, which is basically reading and writing. I dont take recorded music with me when I go for fieldwork, which is deep in the countryside. There's other kinds of music you can hear out there, you dont need no headphones.Am I a passive listener or an active one.
Purnendu

I listen passively 85% of the time and actively just 15% of the time. I am not into that 'analysis' thing - it's simply a waste of time that one can spend doing something better. I do analyse only in order to make posts or recommendations, or when deciding purchases.

Otherwise, I simply enjoy good music while doing something else like reading. Unfortunately, good equipment has corrupted me and I find it hard to listen to average gear sometimes. The harshness hits me.

Hi Neutral, have you heard the idiom: One man's meat is another man's poison? I also don't do analysis. But to some people, it is what music is all about. They search for perfection..and that's how this industry flourishes (if at all).

I have many iPod geeks here (DBAs, Networking gurus, etc), who have the pods on day in and day out. They download MP3 from net or burn themselves. Most don't have clue about what they are missing until they hear the same on my Senn PX 100. And then they say, that Senn is awesome man, but it limits their style...so the earbuds are great. The point is, they do passive listening and miss the true enjoyment. I sit down and enjoy every bit of the music. The only time I am forced to do passive listening is when my better half wants to play some new Hindi numbers, which has no meaning, soundstage, etc. I suggest that you listen to some acoustic instrument recordings (not the synth, keyboards, etc) and you will sit down and SEE :-)

Mine is 100% active listening....meaning i'm always listening to the passages, looking out for all those lush fillings and tiny beautiful notes i missed the previous time i listened to it. Being a drummer, i always imagine i'm playing with the band....playing drums in the air and kicking the floor! Sometimes i become a guitarist and sometimes i play the keyboard...but ALWAYS i'm on the STAGE! Crazy? YES!

What better way to enjoy music than to have 100% participation?

I hope the guy who stays downstairs is not in this forum!

XandY schrieb:

I hope the guy who stays downstairs is not in this forum! :)

My neighbours have given up on me..:D
after complaining the first few times..now they don't bother..
My music is always at around 50-65% volume, spiking to 75-80% for some songs. Oh..along with that i sing(read scream) along.

Say Milpai,

Good music is like a magnet. Sometimes it draws you in. But mostly, one has hazaar things to do. I reach home around 10 to 11 pm. If I listen to music actively, my life is going to collapse around me Sachi, I dare not blast the music for fear that I will be blasted out of my home and hearth!

I am attracted to the guitar riffs of Mark Knopfler and the tabla of Prem Joshua. Then I usually forget everything else Or get lost in the lap of Dido and Norah

Try Edith Piaf...
WOW!
Now that is someone i would like to listen on a turntable..
That 40s tune is just mesmerizing.
Got to give it to the French..

Hey Neutral, thanks for the leads. I will look forward to listening to Dido and Prem Joshua. Never heard them before, but 1 quick check on their site indicates very nice music.

Actually you are better off yaar. Here the walls are wooden - for thermal insulation. So no blasting...and my son is just 1 1/2 months old :-). I like Mark Knopfler - I have the Sultans of Swing (HDCD). For tabla and fusion I seek Zakir Hussain'r Rhythm Experience. Pretty amazing - how I never liked classical music as a teenager. Now I don't like pop. I purchased Decca's "Your Hundred Best Tunes - Volume 2" in 1997 and it was at my home in India for the past 8 years. I did not like it then. Then I requested my parents to send it across...and it suddenly sounds so wonderful!!!

amazing coincidence..but i am just now listening to the Rhythm Experience. it is not exactly classical..more of fusion

try Viswa Mohan Bhats Meeting by a river. pretty good as well..

Yeah..more of fusion. But it is a fun CD and I like it very much..the presence.
Arj, can you please throw some light on the WaterLily Acoustic CD that you mentioned? Is there Tabla in that CD? How is the music. What other WaterLily Acoustic CDs have you listened to? Thanks.
Milind

Hey have any of you heard U2's version of "Can't Help Falling In Love"? It's got some lovely tabla in it.

Hey Shahrukh, U2+tabla..are you serious

milpai schrieb:

Yeah..more of fusion. But it is a fun CD and I like it very much..the presence. Arj, can you please throw some light on the WaterLily Acoustic CD that you mentioned? Is there Tabla in that CD? How is the music. What other WaterLily Acoustic CDs have you listened to? Thanks. Milind

Yes there is-Sukwinder Singh plays that. It has an amazing "Thump".. good way to test your system for Bass Boom..

The recording does provide for good soundstaging as well..

milpai schrieb:

Hey Shahrukh, U2+tabla..are you serious :)

Dead serious man! It's awesome. Just google "Can't Help Falling In Love" + U2

Thanks Arj. I need to buy that now
Shahruk, this is something else man...I will checkout that song.

I usually listen to music while doing something else and its usually late into the night around 1or 2 that i switch off everything else and listen to the music real soft. I love the vifa drivers in my speakers. They are surprisingly clear even at around 20-25% of the volume. Andlike somebody else mentioned, i switch off everything at times like this. I had a window ac installed in the music room, then i shifted that and got the split installed to cut out the noise of the air conditioning( to me i think this was the biggest improvement till now in the room :-)). Really in the dead of the night, the music is so ethereal.

Hey Arj, I got the "A Meeting By the River"...very nice for latenight listening. Has a nice ambience. Ry Cooder's guitar is no match to Bhatt's Mohan Veena though.

his veena isa redesigned 12 string guitar while Ry plays a regular 6 string Acoustic...

[quote="benkenobi"][quote="XandY"]
I hope the guy who stays downstairs is not in this forum! :)[/quote]

My neighbours have given up on me..:D
after complaining the first few times..now they don't bother..
My music is always at around 50-65% volume, spiking to 75-80% for some songs. Oh..along with that i sing(read scream) along. ;)[/quote]

I wonder if it is possible to 'actively' listen to music as an 'audiophile' or does one listen to music as a 'music lover'.

I personally find it very very difficult to 'actively' listen to music at high volumes. I am able to appreciate & understand what is going on only at very very 'soft' levels. If the 'system' plays 'loud' it attracts attention to itself & I cannot focus on the finner details of the music.

All said, I listen to music rather loud in my car, that is because there [in the car] what I listen to is 'club' tracks & they need to be played rather loud.

But, classical [small ensamble] & light jazz [vocal] I feel can be better appreciated at softer volumes.

Besides, if Hi-Fi is a hobby & one takes it seriously, then it needs a lot of time & dedication; like single malt whisky. You only have 1 or 2 drinks & try to appreciate the subtle tastes & do not drink it to get a 'kick' or to 'get high'.

BHAGWAN69

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Besides, if Hi-Fi is a hobby & one takes it seriously, then it needs a lot of time & dedication; like single malt whisky. You only have 1 or 2 drinks & try to appreciate the subtle tastes & do not drink it to get a 'kick' or to 'get high'. BHAGWAN69

Hmm..well if that's the way u like it then what can i say...my definition of music listening clearly isn't the same way u listen. and u forget the fact that the genres themselves are different.
It is definitely possible that are shot becasue of your age and becase of all that high volume listening inyour car.

I don't have to justify the way i enjoy my music..least of all to people like you on an online forum.

I sense a lot of Anger here ..

This is just a hobby and suppsed to be a means to relaxation and peace hence needs to be taken that way !

[quote="benkenobi"][quote="bhagwan69"]

I don't have to justify the way i enjoy my music..least of all to people like you on an online forum.

:cut[/quote]

Sir, I am sorry if I offended you; That is not my intention - I do not even know you.

Each person is allowed and has a right to listen to any kind of music and and how he feels like. You may like a particular kind of music & I may like some other type. It is not that one is 'good' or that the 'other' is bad; just that they are different.

Please do continue to list to what ever you like, how ever you like, at what ever 'volume' that makes you comfortable etc. I was just commenting on 'active & passive' listening & taking audio as a 'serious hobby'. That is all !!

My apology !

Enjoy your music & build great speakers !!! Just keep a goal in sight [what is it that you admire & where is it you want to reach] !!!!!!

BTW which is your favourite speaker ?

BHAGWAN69

[quote="Arj"]I sense a lot of Anger here ..

This is just a hobby and suppsed to be a means to relaxation and peace ;) hence needs to be taken that way ![/quote]

Yes Sir ! I could not agree any more; I did not have any intention of offerding any person. I was mearly expressing my point of view. All said, if I had offended any person, I apologise for it, I did not mean any harm.

This is purely a hobby for us [at least the non commercial members] & let us enjoy it !! Share our views & grow in the process.

Happy Listening !

BHAGWAN69

benkenobi schrieb:

I don't have to justify the way i enjoy my music..least of all to people like you on an online forum. :cut

Definitely you don't have to. It's your music, your room, your system and your taste.

Sorry Benks, but I felt nowadays you are getting unreasonably offensive to people.

Obviously you don't have to justify anything but I felt Bhagwan69 did not mean to offend you.

Let's be realistic, there is hardly anything worth talking about on the forum. I have toned down my postings because of this..but i can't let people take jibes at who i am with no reason whatsoever..they quote me and then target a response based on my posting and invariably they post things that are considered an offense and then they say that they didn't mean to offend anyone.

Let me tell you something..There is a very famous qoute that was based on extensive research.
it says that the fights in online DIYaudio forums are the most bitter and worst kind and the reason for this was that the stakes are the lowest.

I personally feel that this can be attributed to online audio forums as well cause the fights in such forums are based on people's vanity and nothing more.
I see this in our forum too.

you don't have to be sorry diskspinner. ur being candid and that's what i admire. But i disagree that i am being unreasonable..blame it on my vanity or blame it on the other guys offense.

Makes little difference to me cause at the end of the day i just don't want to waste my time debating and justifying my life to someone i don't even know.

The fact that that person had a go at me while knowing that he harldy knows me goes to show how shallow that person is. the very same can be said about me for rebuking him without knowing his intentions, but then again my actions were justified. Solely becasue he gave me reason and cause by not trying to make it sound offensive to me.

This is just a waste of time. If u want some knowledge on audio ur better of looking at some good articles, websites and books, of cousre experimenting will help as well.

the only good thing that has come off my interacting on this forum is the fact that i got acquainted to some talented, genuine people,who have become good friends. Am just glad that my time hasn't been a total waste.

benkenobi schrieb:

Let's be realistic, there is hardly anything worth talking about on the forum. .

Hmm.. if folks like manek had said that couple of years back there would be No Forum now !

Ben, We come here not just to learn but to share interest and interact.

Without the intent to sound either pedantic or obnoxious and with no intention of hurting you, If you feel you have learnt enough and this is a waste of time.. the best suggestion is to move on to another forum than creating bad blood here. Personally, I am only 5 years and a couple of equipment old in this hobby and have found posts by Bhagwan, deaf, prithvi, manek , Sbfx, jeeves....and yourself pretty useful and something to learn from. and if i do nhave an opinion on something I try to put that in.


But if you feel you have lost any personal fulfilment in this, it makes more sense to move on personally for you
OR
you could stay and contribute.. your choice

Philosophically speaking this holds true not just for this forum but for Life as well

arj,

methinks u ought to be moderator. u have the gift of being saying things without being hurtful yet making a point.

you know ben when i joined the forum i had lots to learn, i learnt a lot from forum guys and reading stuff and now i find, like you, that most posts dont give me anything new. in fact i'd be really surprised if most of the posts give anyone anything new. most of it is just sharing stuff. and points of interest pop up, that one can take and do online indepth research on. i dont mean to be offensive to anyone. the point i'm trying to make is that real indepth stuff is quite limited here. most posts just touch the surface of interesting topics.

so i just log on once a while to read up and if i read soemthing interesting i do online research myself rather than being active and subjecting myself to irritation.

and frankly i think guys like arj, prithvi, screamgigi and a few more are miles ahead knowledge wise and dont really have much to learn from the newbies that are in the majority here, including myself. rather they're more like guys who share what they know.

maybe thats something u ought to be doing? sharing what u know and ignoring the posts that dont give you anything? just a friendly thought...

and i think bhagwan was using ur post more as an anchor to have some sort of relevance to his post and maybe he found a topic of dicussion in ur post. i dont think he meant that he was right and u were wrong.

i mean isnt that the object of the topic? to bring out different forum members listening habits?

How you listen to music depends mostly on what you play and your listening environment.
My take: Vocals and light jazz sounds more realistic at softer volumes.
Hard rock, metal, and classical symphonies need more volume.

I guess we all vary the volume based on the music, our moods, and most importantly the moods of the people around us

I think Ben has been a valuable member of this forum and I would request him to continue to post on technical topics. No forum member is in any way obliged to reply to the differing views of other members. Silence is golden!
(I personally take no offence even though several people have taken potshots at me. To each his own!)

Hi Folks,
My one bit in defence of loud listening. Its not the genre, its the attitude. I love blasting Mahler, which is where my system limitations come out clearly. I also like chamber music at live levels, so that you can hear the fingers moving up and down. Small jazz ensembles are much more than background music. Listening to Mingus softly is tantamount to insulting the great man. All that said however, most of the time I have to listen at moderate levels for the sake of domestic peace and good neighbourly relations. To my mind the test of a good system is its capacity to play 'quietly' at high volumes -i.e. it shouldnt hurt, as much as its ability to play engagingly at low volumes. Old rock for example makes very good background music, although I no longer find it musically challenging enough to want to listen to it with attention.
Purnendu

Mahler # 2 [Resurrection] - last movement - has to be played at rather loud volumes. So is the case with Beethoven # 05 & 09. Some passages do need the spl splurge, I must agree.

However, I am not so convinced about the Chamber Music part.

"To my mind the test of a good system is its capacity to play 'quietly' at high volumes -i.e. it shouldnt hurt, as much as its ability to play engagingly at low volumes".

GOLDEN WORDS !!!

I could not agree more.

"Philosophically speaking this holds true not just for this forum but for Life as well" - ARJ

VERY WELL SAID !!

Let us all keep an open mind, share our experiances & contribute to our & fellow forum members growth.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

Hi Bhagwan,
Which Mahler Resurection have you got.
Purnendu

Hi !

Many;

I have them on Teldec + DG + Decca + Phillips + Telarc + RCA + SONY etc.

I have the details at home. I will have to pull the CD's out to check on the exact perfornamces [Conductor i.e.].
But I can do so & let you know in a day.

Are you from Bombay ? If so, you could drop by for a listen, maybe we could exchange a few CD's ????

I might have a few classical CD's that may interest you [if you are a lover of classical music, i.e.].

Let me know; PM me & we can take it forward.

Thanks.

BHAGWAN69

Malher....no 2...

Awesome piece of composition. I have heard 3 versions of the same but have loved the Kluas Tennstedt with the lpo the best. The other I heard were israel phil with Z mehta and another american orchestra which I dont remember now(it was so hot anyways).
The first movement to my mind is quite unforgetable.

Agree with the Beethoven 5th and 9th. I do enjoy the Carlos Kleiber Vienna phil recording of the 5th very much.

All the above pieces to my mind need to be played a bit loud to appreciate the pieces, man dont these 3 pieces pack a punch ? A challange for any system at any price.

Manek.