HIFI-FORUM » English » DIY (Engl.) » DIY Subwoofer with Lambda Acoustics SB12 driver | |
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DIY Subwoofer with Lambda Acoustics SB12 driver+A -A |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#1 erstellt: 04. Okt 2008, 08:36 | ||
Finished building this monster subwoofer a few months ago. This is part of my HT system; the quest for which is described in this thread. http://www.hifi-foru...rum_id=60&thread=327 DRIVER I used the highly acclaimed Lambda Acoustics SB12. Made in USA but no longer in production. It was a premium product which unfortunately could not continue due to its high price. I was lucky to get a piece some years ago. Its huge and heavy at about 10kgs. The Lambda SB12 driver is designed for sealed enclosure. It has a high xmax, stiff poly cone with stiff poly dustcap, coated and sealed foam surround, 12 spoke aluminium basket, dual stack 120oz magnet, gold binding post, military spec coatings and glues. It is a high excursion, very low distortion, super tight bass driver. Recommended maximum crossover point is 500Hz, rated power handling is 500W. 2.83VSPL = 88.6dB Specs Size: 12" Motor : PL (overhung) Magnet : 3.4Kg Ceramic 5 VC diameter : 51mm VC Former: Black Anodized Aluminum VC Wire: 2 Layer Copper Roundwire Basket : Cast Aluminum 12 Spoke Cone : Mineral Filled Hard Poly Surround : Doped Foam, 2 layer treatment Dustcap : Hard Poly Spider : Hard stiffness Nomex Faraday : Copper Terminals: Gold Plated Binding Posts Weight : 10 Kgs Fs : 20.9 Hz Qms : 4.23 Qes : 0.64 Qts : 0.56 Vas : 160 Liters Cms : 0.4 mm/N Mms : 145 grams Sd : 531 cm2 Rms : 4.5 Kg/S Pe (nom) : 300 Watts Pe (max) : 500 Watts Pe (transient) : 1000 Watts Air Gap : 14 mm VC Length : 38 mm Linear Xmax : 14 mm (peak) Mech Xmax : 20 mm (peak) AMPLIFIER Along with the Sub driver I had also bought a high power Marchand MOSFET amp and their excellent active XO in Kit form. However I later realized this was a complicated route to follow. The XO would not permit all the function I wanted in a sub. A costly mistake. Particularly as they all came from USA. Later a friend imported a pair of the famous OAudio BASH 500 watts plate amp from the US. This amp has all the control one will ever need to perfectly integrate a subwoofer in any environment. Here is the linK to manufacturer’s website: http://www.oaudio.com/500W_SUBAMP.html And here is a review http://www.audioasyl...ks&n=117881&review=1 ENCLOSURE With a VAS of 160 liters the required box is BIG! A proper sealed box would have been about 10 liters. Since it needed to live in our bedroom, the size had to be reasonable. A compromise was sought. I did not want to loose out on those really low notes such as pipe organs and starwars fx effects. After a lot of modeling with spreadsheets and keeping in view the required goals a size of about 4cuft was decided. Its still huge almost the size of a small washing machine. But just about ok. CONSTRUCTION I used up one full sheet of 8ft x 4 ft MDF. The construction was done in “sandwich” style. Internal braces were used. From this close up pic you can see the wall thickness that is the result of sandwiching two panels of 22mm each. Together they become almost 2 inches and heavy as granite. Its filled 80% by thermal glass fibre and the internal are lined with a very expensive acoustic liner. You can also see the “ducktail” type of edge joints for added rigidity. The joints were sealed with silicone compound. The result is a box is dead quite and needs about 3 people to lift. This was a huge construction. I was assisted by my daughter and a jack-of-all-trades type of guy. The panel are glued to each other and screws were used to tighten the panel. Once the glue set it the screws were removed. Only the glue holds the box together. Needed about 15 U and C clamps for temporary bracings. Here is the cutting layout for anyone interested. The exterior was lined with DURIAN brand veneer. But I goofed up on the finish. I guess I will get a professional to undo the polish damage and put a fresh layer. These require skill and sadly I can’t be a good polish guy. FINISHED SUB With the front grill removed. The CD is for size reference PERFORMANCE I live in a detached property. The next home is about 50 meters away. The first night of testing I unknowingly rattled our neighbour’s fancy window pane with a 20hz test signal. Next morning he was mumbling something about mild earthquakes and wanted to know if I too felt that. I don’t wish to sound biased but I am yet to hear a better sub (not OB type) at any price point that even comes close to this. I am very pleased with this sub. [Beitrag von aks07 am 04. Okt 2008, 08:42 bearbeitet] |
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Gelscht
Gelöscht |
#2 erstellt: 04. Okt 2008, 16:52 | ||
Hi Ashok, That is one fantastic sub.Your projects are truly inspirational. Nick Mcinney of Lambda is now with Acoustic Elegance. http://www.aespeakers.com/ They offer the Lambda drivers but I am not sure if they are the same as yours. Nick is in the process of building an Altec 755 clone . http://www.hostboard..._topic&f=3729&t=3632 The Altec 755 is legendary and old drivers are going for silly prices on E.bay. If he manages to get the driver out at the projected price of $250 it will be fantastic.This driver will make for a great midrange driver (80--10,000 Hz)on open an baffel ,with a 15 inch woofer for the lows and a good ribbon tweeter for the highs.Which is basically Lynn Olson's Beyond the Ariel project. Regards Rajiv |
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sivat
Stammgast |
#3 erstellt: 05. Okt 2008, 00:32 | ||
AKS, The sub looks impressive and i'm sure about is sound as well. Like Rajiv said, let's hope more folks get inspired to take thier first step into DIY. My project got a bit more complicated due to the use of Passive radiator. I'm taking a different approach now, will keep u posted. Regards Siva. |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#4 erstellt: 05. Okt 2008, 02:48 | ||
Hi Rajiv, But they pale in comparison to the awesome stuff you do with your vintage drivers. I must thank you for those excellent links on Acoustic Elegance. I knew Nick Mcinney had moved but was not getting a link. The AE site has a fantastic forum. I wish it was known to me when I was researching for my sub build. I was reading the specs on the AE 12” drivers. The basket design looks similar to the Lambda SB series. But none of the AE drivers specs even come near Lambda SB12. My driver has an LE motor with faraday rings. The AE motor looks similar. IIRC you did have an Altec 755. I like the idea of an open baffle with a big driver for lows and ribbon. As coincidence has it our buddy Angshu is just fine tuning a similar OB setup. He is using a VIFA and HiVi Ribbon for mids/high and a cheap 12” Philips driver for the lows. He is so enthused by the result that he is planning to retain this pair as his reference system. He has refused to go back to a sealed enclosure now. Attached pic. |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#5 erstellt: 05. Okt 2008, 02:50 | ||
Sivat-ji Thanks for your good words. Nice to hear praise from a pro If Passives are your preferred method than do meet up with George Ollapally in BLR. I am sure some of your contacts must be knowing him. He swears by passives. He feels they are the only way to go for great sub sound. |
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Manek
Inventar |
#6 erstellt: 05. Okt 2008, 11:50 | ||
Aks nice sub. Funny, about your neighbour. One could use the sub to very good advantage there :-) On a serious note, how well does a large driver like this integrate with the other speakers ? In terms of speed, transition across drivers etc ? What speakers are u using the sub with ? Manek |
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surrealistix
Ist häufiger hier |
#7 erstellt: 06. Okt 2008, 02:08 | ||
After reading yours and Siva's post I have decided to take the plunge and build my first Subwoofer. I am thinking of getting a Rythmik Audio Servo Sub kit. http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS15.html Has anyone built these before or can recommend alternatives? |
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sivat
Stammgast |
#8 erstellt: 06. Okt 2008, 02:55 | ||
Surrealistix, Glad you are getting on board. Wish you the very best. My recommendation - Shipping cost of these drivers will kill you. - Get a sub-amp, but use a driver that is locally available - You can try the Eminence LAB12 driver that is locally available for around Rs.9k (12" woofer) Regards Siva. |
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Gelscht
Gelöscht |
#9 erstellt: 06. Okt 2008, 06:17 | ||
Hi Ashok, You give me more credit than is due.
I wish I had the 755's.I have the 605A duplex and assorted compression drivers,and woofers. Angshu's woofer cabinet is interesting. Is the woofer enclosed/ported at the rear,or is it open ? Any idea of the model no.of the Philips woofer? Philips India used to sell some very good Holland made woofers dome midrange and dome tweeters back in the 70's and 80's.I hardly see any good Philips drivers today. Regards Rajiv |
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surrealistix
Ist häufiger hier |
#10 erstellt: 06. Okt 2008, 17:09 | ||
Hi Siva, I have some relatives coming down from Canada, so planning on asking them to carry it in. But, since it's pretty heavy - I am very open to the idea of buying the driver here. Will the Eminence driver work with the Rythmik Servo kit - if not, are there any other sub amplifiers that I should consider? O Audio?? Also, I am not on a very tight budget to be honest, for example I could afford to spend up to 20K on a driver - are there other options in India? Ronnie |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#11 erstellt: 07. Okt 2008, 07:38 | ||
Manek-ji The sub is actually over spcked for my small HT speakers but interact beautifully with the room. The parametric equaliser and other filters are a blessing here. I wish there were proper floor standing L & R speakers in my setup and the sub taking care of really low notes. Surrealistix-ji Take the jump ! I would just advice that you engage a carpenter for the bix building. Its an acquired skill and if you don’t plan to extensively woodwork, there is no point in getting the specialised tool. That Eminence looks nice. BASH amp should cost you about Rs. 14,000 landed, custom cleared in India. Mine came on DHL. PE plate amps too look nice. Once you decide on your driver and amp rest is relatively easy. |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#12 erstellt: 07. Okt 2008, 07:46 | ||
[quote="Rajiv"][/quote] Angshu's woofer cabinet is interesting. Is the woofer enclosed/ported at the rear,or is it open ? [/quote] Those are simple H frame types. Dimensions are based on the Philips 12” T/S parameters. I will get the specs and model number for you. Curious know what ideas you are germinating : ) [quote][/quote] |
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sivat
Stammgast |
#13 erstellt: 07. Okt 2008, 09:00 | ||
Ronnie, why don't you look at the amp that Ashok is using. I have not heard the Eminence driver myself, but it comes highly recommended. The specs and build looks good...and the price is attractive. |
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surrealistix
Ist häufiger hier |
#14 erstellt: 08. Okt 2008, 08:37 | ||
I am finalizing on one of the following Plate Amps 1. O Audio 500w Bash Amp (Ashok's recommendation) 2. Ed Audio LT/550 or LT/1300 based on B&O ICE 1000A module - these are the same as the Keiga Plate Amps - http://www.madisound.com/kgnd.html http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_106 If I got for the 1300 Watt amp, I could built two separate sealed enclosures with 12 inch drivers on each and use one plate amp. Like http://www.edesignau...2_41&products_id=682 3. Plate amp for parts express - not finalised a model yet I could go for eminence drivers I guess, unless there is something better available in India that any of you know off. I was planning on buying the Velodyne SPL1200 sub, so my DIY project has to sound better than the Velo :-) |
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sivat
Stammgast |
#15 erstellt: 08. Okt 2008, 09:03 | ||
I somehow feel uncomfortable with a SMPS PSU (conservative me ) ...so will stick to Madisound option myself....but that's only my choice. Since Ashok has tried the O audio, i think it is a safe bet as well. |
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zhopudey
Stammgast |
#16 erstellt: 08. Okt 2008, 10:17 | ||
Great sub, ashok I've bought some peerless drivers for a simple 2.1 system, but am stuck as I can't find a carpenter |
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Manek
Inventar |
#17 erstellt: 08. Okt 2008, 15:05 | ||
Whilst on the subject of plate amps....does anyone know of one that is clas ab(50to70 watts) and can be used to run a two way bookshelf or floorstander ? Manek |
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Gelscht
Gelöscht |
#18 erstellt: 08. Okt 2008, 15:14 | ||
Hi, Ashok,I have nothing exotic planned . I have the Goodmans Axiom 201 full range drivers which I want to use on an open baffle.Just looking for an inexpensive way to extend the lows . Regards Rajiv |
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Arj
Inventar |
#19 erstellt: 08. Okt 2008, 17:01 | ||
manek try out BK Elec these guys are the OEMS for MJ acoustics and used to make the subs for REL before the takeover by Sumiko. i have one of their subs and its not too bad.. |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#20 erstellt: 09. Okt 2008, 04:06 | ||
I too had reservations on the SMPS psu. It turned out to be unfounded. Look for a plate amp that gives you maximum options on adapting the sub to you room and rest of audio chain. OAudio scores on this. I don’t see as many controls in any other amp. Eminence looks nice from several point of view. Its not easy to smuggle in a 12” sub driver without major hassles at all points. If you get it locally in India then it solves a big problem. zhopudey-ji If you are in Banglore you can contact George. He knows an “audiophile” carpenter. |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#21 erstellt: 09. Okt 2008, 04:07 | ||
Philips 12" in H frame. Consistent with your OB theme. |
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surrealistix
Ist häufiger hier |
#22 erstellt: 13. Okt 2008, 15:04 | ||
Does anyone know where I can get the Eminence Lab12 or any other good 12" driver for a sub in India? Also, any thoughts on pro amps from Behringer, QSC or Crown for use with a Subwoofer? |
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surrealistix
Ist häufiger hier |
#23 erstellt: 14. Okt 2008, 16:18 | ||
The Eminence Lab12s are available for about 6.5K + vat from cinetekk They also carry Crown and QSC pro amps. I was thinking of going with the Crown XTI 1000 amp with digital EQ and two Eminence Lab12 in sealed enclosure. Any thoughts? |
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sivat
Stammgast |
#24 erstellt: 15. Okt 2008, 03:19 | ||
I will recommend that you get a proper sub-woofer amp like what AKS has done. |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#25 erstellt: 15. Okt 2008, 04:11 | ||
Prima facie the price for Eminence driver looks high. But if you consider all the advantages such as local availability its ok. Do you have the TS parameter for this driver ? I agree with Sivat-ji. A purpose made plate amp is quickest and surest method to get going. OAudio has been shipping to India and it fully N. American made. Should cost you between 13.5 to 14k landed. |
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surrealistix
Ist häufiger hier |
#26 erstellt: 16. Okt 2008, 02:58 | ||
I will most likely go with the O Audio plate amp. One of the reasons I was considering a Pro-Amp was so that I can setup two subwoofers in my room powered by a single pro-amp and use a cross over. Some of the Pro-Amps which I looked at are: Crown XTI 1000 - Rs. 25,000 QSC RMX 1450 - Behringer EP 1500 - Rs. 27000 With a Cross Over Cross Over CX2310 - Rs. 8000 DBX 223 - Rs. 7000 What would be the downside of going with such amplification? The TS Parameters for the Eminence Lab12 Driver are: fs22Hz Re4.29 Le1.48mH Qms13.32 Qes0.39 Total Q (Qts)0.38 Vas125.2 ltr/4.4 cu. ft. Vd659cc Cms0.35mm/N BL 15.0 T-M Mms146 grams EBP56 Xmax13.0mm Sd506.7cm2 Xlim22mm These drivers are mostly used in Horn Loaded configuration. I am wondering how they will sound in a Sealed Box. |
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aks07
Stammgast |
#27 erstellt: 01. Nov 2008, 11:06 | ||
surrealistix-ji This looks like a very very good option for your amp search. On Ebay India for Rs. 12,000 [url=http://cgi.ebay.in/Reckhorn-A-400-Subwoofer-External-Amplifier-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ320315204607QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320315204607&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A1%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318]Reckhorn A-400 Subwoofer External Amplifier, Brand New url] |
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surrealistix
Ist häufiger hier |
#28 erstellt: 14. Nov 2008, 12:15 | ||
Hi Ashok, Thanks for the ebay link. The amp is not available for sale any longer on ebay, but I think I will be able to contact the seller. I completed my subwoofer build with the Eminence Lab 12 driver. Did some initial testing with by driving it using my Stratos AMP - it sounds pretty good. I can't wait to get an AMP and finish the project. I will post pics and Graphs on a seperate thread this weekend. |
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