DIY 1X = Main Stream 4X

Arj schrieb:

Siva, will your monoblocks run a Dyn Contour ? if not then we may need to use another amp..maybe Abhis plinius or yours ? will go by you on this sir ! points 1-3 all seem fair..anyway i was was thinking that siva, you sW and me would all be rating so that means 4 datapoints. if we have 2 more nothing like it. we can statistically remnove any voring which has a high deviation.

From Abhi what says, i understand the Plinius is better. So lets use Plinius. Further my amp is stripped out and i'm not sure whether i will be able to put it back in time...

Abhi, Do bring your plinius amp...and your interconnects.
Yes. I do have stands.

Regards
Siva.

Further my amp is stripped out and i'm not sure whether i will be able to put it back in time...

Siva ,do try to put it back in time -it will be an impt component to test for this shoot out.

Kamal schrieb:

Further my amp is stripped out and i'm not sure whether i will be able to put it back in time... Siva ,do try to put it back in time -it will be an impt component to test for this shoot out.

Dear Kamal,
Siva has a Plinius power amp (which is a very good amplification unit)..he is just asking me to bring over my Plinius integrated to be used as preamp....Siva, please correct if I am going wrong....

and our shootout this time is only speakers ..right ?

and our shootout this time is only speakers ..right ?

Yes I suppose.

If we need an unbiased rating...it has to be done by neutral people "IMHO". I am personally not confident if I could rate my speakers in an unbiased manner. That way...out of 4 datapoints 3 are not neutral ..

I would care to be there if someone minds...
I'm very neutral as I have no liking or hatred towards any of these ( Hope I don't devolop a hatred after listening )

and our shootout this time is only speakers

As long as Abhi is not one of those underworld goons it's just going to be a speaker shoot out

Folks..very sorry but I need to back out as something has come up and I am working this weekend..you could continue without me or postpone it to next week or week after next..

apologies on the last min pullout but have no choice.

Folks..very sorry but I need to back out as something has come up and I am working this weekend..you could continue without me or postpone it to next week or week after next.. apologies on the last min pullout but have no choice.

Moderator is backing out!!!!!!!!

Ok. Lets postpone to some other time...

Siva,
When will you be available next ? You said you will be traveling for sometime...if you can give the next tentative date we can plan it accordingly in advance.

Arj schrieb:

ok folks, could not work on this earlier but here are my thoughts open for constructive additions Siva would request you to identify 2-4 tracks which have all these compontnts. abhi yiou also have the right to recomend Low and mid bass, midrange with male and female voices. treble with attack and decay. dynamics, background ambience and immediacy (any live recording should do that) along with tracks that have abundance of low details (jazz in the pawnshop types) 1. methodology sivas system to be the reference. first step would be the ice-breaker where we setup the position for the 2 speakers under test so that each has its optimal positioning procedure would be each set ot tracks to be played in the reference system 1-2 times so that we get our ears tuned to that system thenwe play the same tracks on the 2 speaker sets track by track and note down out points on the sheet provided 2. Parameters to be measured/Observed Low Bass (Tactile, immediacy and articulation (Control) Mid Bass : Body and Impact Lower midrange(male voices): Naturality, lack of chestyness/congestion Upper midrange (Femals vocals) Clarity, sibilance,captivation, tonality treble , clarity, attack and decay Overall characteristics: Coherance, Tonality and timbre, details, Dynamics, Timing, transparency, soundstaging -3d spatial . 3. any Instructions on measurement/observations all ears will be caliberated by multiple tracks played in the beginning. so please do not prejudge..just soak in the first session. Ratings of 1-5 (Low to high) to be given relative to reference subjective remarks on any emotional/intutive feeling or lack of it also to be put in 4. Music pieces/Tracks/albums siva this is your baby..since we will be hearing them all so many times limited no of tracks suggested. would suggest to keep music as mainstream and generic to cover all lisners tastes. A;ll commetns welcoms. i will keep modifying this post to put in the latest. cutoff time Sat morning. Ampnut/Manek i remember one of you had once posted on a sheet with a circular diagram which could be utilised for this.. a repost would be highly appreciated.

I have an audio ear-tool that I can share w/ you folks that would allow each one to rate the same element. this way you guys can compare the same items across the entire audience.
I find it very useful. maybe it'll be of some use to all of you?

obviously, I do not know how to upload an image to this forum!
After I hit the "upload" button, it takes me to the Imageshack website.
Then?
Do I click "Quick Post" ?
(It asked me to register, which I did not want to. :P)

bombaywalla schrieb:

After I hit the "upload" button, it takes me to the Imageshack website. Then? Do I click "Quick Post" ? (It asked me to register, which I did not want to. :P)

There will be 4 links displayed there.
Copy the 2nd link and paste it on our forum. The picture will come here auto.
Try it !
It works...........

While we're at it, how do I post a picture as my avatar?

Can we keep it @ 4:00pm on the coming sunday..26th Aug

Regards
Siva.

sivat schrieb:

Can we keep it @ 4:00pm on the coming sunday..26th Aug Regards Siva.

You guys did not meet ?
What happened ?
I was anxious to read what transpired;
I guess, I will have to wait for another week.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

sivat schrieb: Can we keep it @ 4:00pm on the coming sunday..26th Aug Regards Siva. You guys did not meet ? What happened ? I was anxious to read what transpired; I guess, I will have to wait for another week. :.

Thats because our moderator opted out due to some work at his office.
Here it is:
Arj Wrote:

Folks..very sorry but I need to back out as something has come up and I am working this weekend..you could continue without me or postpone it to next week or week after next.. apologies on the last min pullout but have no choice.

You guys could still have met - at some one else's house this week end, listened to music, talked and faught a bit & done the audio / DIY thing next week end. Just a suggestion......

bhagwan69 schrieb:

You guys could still have met - at some one else's house this week end, listened to music, talked and faught a bit & done the audio / DIY thing next week end. Just a suggestion......

Ya that was definitely possible and my house is definitely open for such meets. But since the notice given was tooooo short, very few people had agreed to come for the scheduled A/B meet. So I just felt lets make things more organised...let people take more time and plan it out as a special event on their calenders.
Moreover meeting in between brings down the excitement enthusiasm of the prime event

sivat schrieb:

Those of you in Bangalore, please visit the Kanua hotel on Sarjapur road. A few DIY enthusiats have put together a wonderful music system there.....and you can also see thier innovation. The basic idea might not be original, but the itegration would have definetly required some amount of mathematics and imagination.

Was there yesterday night to make up to my family missing the weekend with them.

Found the speakers pretty good. seem to have been inspired by Duevels design for omnidirectional dispersion..but i thought the setup with Vifa drivers (Which included a well integerated and beautifully camouflaged sub) was very well put up. it managed the difficulty of ensuring a very decent and even soundfield all across the area which had a tiled roof, but open air terrace area . thought the lower midbass was a bit distorting..but considering that would be a very minor point against it.

BTW that place is worth visiting just for the food (The fish and Chicken Satay is Mind Blowing) and service which is fantastic..made it a really beautiful experience for us and my "errant" behaviour of a working weekend was all forgiven

Kamal schrieb:

While we're at it, how do I post a picture as my avatar?

just click on the "Setting" link above or Here

there is a place here to upload an avatar. needs o be a small image though..

bombaywalla schrieb:

I have an audio ear-tool that I can share w/ you folks that would allow each one to rate the same element. this way you guys can compare the same items across the entire audience. I find it very useful. maybe it'll be of some use to all of you?

sir, that would be more than welcome ! how can you send it across ?

sivat schrieb:

Can we keep it @ 4:00pm on the coming sunday..26th Aug Regards Siva.

have a social engagement that evening

I'm scheduled to reach Bangalore on Sunday (26th) morning at around 8:00am...i was planning to keep it on the evening.....just as a precaution against the punctuality of our trains.

So can we still plan to have it on Sunday morning @ around 10:00am...assuming my train arrives on time.

Arj, Do try to squeeze in a couple of hours..

Regards
Siva

bhagwan69 schrieb:

bombaywalla schrieb: After I hit the "upload" button, it takes me to the Imageshack website. Then? Do I click "Quick Post" ? (It asked me to register, which I did not want to. :P) There will be 4 links displayed there. Copy the 2nd link and paste it on our forum. The picture will come here auto. Try it ! It works........... 8)

OK, main Bhagwan ki aagya maan kar phir se picture post karne ki koshish karta hoon....

bhagwan69 schrieb:

bombaywalla schrieb: After I hit the "upload" button, it takes me to the Imageshack website. Then? Do I click "Quick Post" ? (It asked me to register, which I did not want to. :P) There will be 4 links displayed there. Copy the 2nd link and paste it on our forum. The picture will come here auto. Try it ! It works........... 8)

Spot on, Bhagwan69! thanks!

Pleasure;

How are you ?
Plans to visit ?
Do drop by home for a listen. Nice to have you home.

OK, now that Bombaywalla's done, could you plz tell me how to upload a picture as my avatar?
Thx

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Pleasure; How are you ? Plans to visit ? Do drop by home for a listen. Nice to have you home. :)

yes, we are planning to visit. I do not have any concrete dates as yet.
I'll be sure to let you know & it would be my pleasure to listen to your system.

Kamal schrieb:

OK, now that Bombaywalla's done, could you plz tell me how to upload a picture as my avatar? Thx

sirji, please refer to my post no #72 in this very page !!!

http://www.hifi-foru...read=16&postID=72#72

Thanks, Arj,missed your prev response.
Err..how do I reduce the size of my picture as reqd?

Kamal schrieb:

Thanks, Arj,missed your prev response. Err..how do I reduce the size of my picture as reqd?

Download a free image software like 'irfanview' and resize. Maybe, u can try Paint first if it has what u want.

as me tioned by neutral. open it in Paint (menu option Start > Accessories)
I think there should be a save as where you can keep reducing the size..if you have a problem just mail it to me and ill do it to you for the cost of a Beer the next time I am in Delhi

My trip has been postponed to mid-sep (to my home town in TN).

Arj, Abhi, Sq.wave, are u available this Sunday morning...say around 10:30am.

Regards
Siva.

Coming Sunday morning may be a problem for me. I have guests coming in on Saturday late night flight and have some work with them the next day. I’ll confirm on Saturday.

sivat schrieb:

My trip has been postponed to mid-sep (to my home town in TN). Arj, Abhi, Sq.wave, are u available this Sunday morning...say around 10:30am. Regards Siva.

If you are coming to Chennai (where's your home town?), you are welcome at my friend's place. We could have a Chennai forum meeting

sivat schrieb:

My trip has been postponed to mid-sep (to my home town in TN). Arj, Abhi, Sq.wave, are u available this Sunday morning...say around 10:30am. Regards Siva.

Hi Siva,
I am trying my best to make it. Lets ask the rest of the guys.
Arjun, whats up ??

abhi.pani schrieb:

sivat schrieb: My trip has been postponed to mid-sep (to my home town in TN). Arj, Abhi, Sq.wave, are u available this Sunday morning...say around 10:30am. Regards Siva. Hi Siva, I am trying my best to make it. Lets ask the rest of the guys. Arjun, whats up ??

Guys, please dont me kill me...
I will not be able to make it to the meet this week...something has come up absolutely without notice...need to go out of station. Will be back only Monday morning.

Can we please have it next week ?
Siva,
If you are okay with it, I assure you, I would volunteer the meet and see that maximum members are present.
Please suggest.

It's very unfortunate you B'lore Pals. Have it at the earilest & do post your opinions & observations

HAd a very interesting discussion with someone on this. so thought ill share it with the forum and see what thoughts abound.

typically a mainstream manufacturer has to make a product that is guite generic . that means..say a speaker , it should match (Mix n Match) with almost any amplifier and most rooms. since the tonalityof amps itself can change so much it is not so easy a task. it is this iterative process of arriving at the "right" design which ends up as a house sound. so thhe chances that it is not a"optimal" without the right match is pretty common..but it will perform decently never-the-less

in case of DIY this problem does not exist. one (or 2) person voices his speaker for with 1 or couple of amps in his room(s). so the chances of getting the sound right for that equipment is very high, but chances of performing very differently with other equipment is also pretty high.

what say ?

Arj schrieb:

HAd a very interesting discussion with someone on this. so thought ill share it with the forum and see what thoughts abound. typically a mainstream manufacturer has to make a product that is guite generic . that means..say a speaker , it should match (Mix n Match) with almost any amplifier and most rooms. since the tonalityof amps itself can change so much it is not so easy a task. it is this iterative process of arriving at the "right" design which ends up as a house sound. so thhe chances that it is not a"optimal" without the right match is pretty common..but it will perform decently never-the-less in case of DIY this problem does not exist. one (or 2) person voices his speaker for with 1 or couple of amps in his room(s). so the chances of getting the sound right for that equipment is very high, but chances of performing very differently with other equipment is also pretty high. what say ?

What if there is a DIY pursuit towards "purity"....and is triggered by the very fact that "house sound" is not acceptable. The objective of DIY could be "purer" sound...not restried to either the room or any associated equipment. All though, i'm not saying all DIY effort have this objetive as thier agenda.

If the DIY effort continues for a period of time...you will obvisouly have more people, rooms and equipment being tested along with it...and you'll know the difference.

However, i do not agree to the fact the "house sound" is the result of making a speaker work with many differnt amp and room !!!. "House Sound" can also be the result of designer's preferences, target market, etc., etc.,

*** MOST IMPORTANT FACT ***
DIY is NOT just knowing the technology behind audio equipment. It also requires immense knowledge of "sound". This knowledge can be accumulated - only by listening to various equipment (Obvisously i'm referring to mainstream products here). The more you listen to other equipments in a rational manner, the better knowledge you gain to better your own DIY Effort. You do not always learn what should be done correct, but you'll also learn what to avoid ..

Please remember that if you (those who do NOT DIY) know some fact about audio equipment .... chances are that someone who DIYs also knows the same fact and has taken that into consideration for his project.

Regards
Siva.

Arj schrieb:

HAd a very interesting discussion with someone on this. so thought ill share it with the forum and see what thoughts abound. typically a mainstream manufacturer has to make a product that is guite generic . that means..say a speaker , it should match (Mix n Match) with almost any amplifier and most rooms. since the tonalityof amps itself can change so much it is not so easy a task. it is this iterative process of arriving at the "right" design which ends up as a house sound. so thhe chances that it is not a"optimal" without the right match is pretty common..but it will perform decently never-the-less in case of DIY this problem does not exist. one (or 2) person voices his speaker for with 1 or couple of amps in his room(s). so the chances of getting the sound right for that equipment is very high, but chances of performing very differently with other equipment is also pretty high. what say ?

The answer to this question also lies in one's understanding how the amp and speakers interact and the "factors" that affect thier interaction. Manufactuers do not actually test the speakers with N number of amplifiers, but actually try to optimize these "factors"(which affect the interaction).

Where-as the "house sound" is a completely different issue.