Reputation : Amps that live up/Amps which dont

Manek schrieb:

Hi all, Was just wondering.....which 5 stereo amps you think live upto or surpass the reputations they have in their respective price brackets ? Which according to you are the duds in those categories.... Manek.

Troublemaker .
Deaf.

Let me start the trouble..

Though I havent auditioned many but still whatever little I have heard, here are my observations..
first the duds:
1. Denon seems to be one of the most overpriced stereo amps.
2. Musical Fidelity Pre-power(I dont remember the model number).
3. I dare say this, but I found the Krell KAV-2250 to be over-priced for the quality of sound (not quantity) it delivers.

There could be more if I ponder around but at the moment thats it.

Now for the real heroes:
1. No prizes for guessing this, Pliniusssssssssssssss...if you like it then its difficult to live without it.
2. Rotel, NAD, Marantz all of them fall into the category of good sound for the price. Depends on taste, which one is for whom.
3. Arasu's Pre-Power for 18k is again a out of the world bargain to me (again depends whether you like the voicing)
4. Sonodyne latest Pre-Power for 26k sounded very good to my ears and one of the best bargains for the price IMO.

abhi.pani schrieb:

1. No prizes for guessing this, Pliniusssssssssssssss...if you like it then its difficult to live without it.

it appears that Plinius has some serious sibilance!!!

Manek schrieb:

Hi all, Was just wondering.....which 5 stereo amps you think live upto or surpass the reputations they have in their respective price brackets ? Which according to you are the duds in those categories.... Manek.

Aare dikra, kya karti??
Are you tired of your "moderator" status on this forum??

War is on...

hi boombaywalla, abhi,

Just thought I would start something interesting and really get to know the feel of what audiophiles on the forum think as VFM and good and what is not.

The Pliniussssssssss! is as sibilant as "Ka" in Jungle Book.

Atleast abhi is has stated his view and I arrpeciate it.


PS : I am not tired of the moderator role at all

Manek.

I can only go by what I own and have heard.

Overrated
The Primare sure didn't have dat swing (based on that one audition)
Rotel, I for one don't like the sound
Sonodyne,for the life of me i cannot understand why they can't get it right.I mean here is one Indian company that has the potential to play the big game seriously, but does not.

Winners
Arcam, atleast mine after all the abuse sound like a million bucks
Rokan Kandy - extreme VFM.

Cheers
K

Krish schrieb:

I can only go by what I own and have heard. Sonodyne,for the life of me i cannot understand why they can't get it right.I mean here is one Indian company that has the potential to play the big game seriously, but does not. K

You are right Krish, they look like having all the potential but they seem to be very confused. As if they dont know where they are going. Sometimes they look like a complete HT company and then suddenly they seem to concentrate on Stereo Pre-Power....I mean what are they upto
Are they concentrating on speakers or amps or HT or....
With all these experience of decades they have not yet come up with a referrence model of anything

A couple of years ago, Sonodyne had an "open House" / demo of their product range, on a Sunday, at La Cosy. ( I think it was immediately After the AV Max show in Mumbai )

Someone asked if their products were for Professional audio or Hi Fi.

The guy said, he did not understand such a question.... The Sonodyne products were well built, with protection and quality parts... so they should be Great in AMY application.

I suspect that is the root cause .... ?

Amp_Nut schrieb:

A couple of years ago, Sonodyne had an "open House" / demo of their product range, on a Sunday, at La Cosy. ( I think it was immediately After the AV Max show in Mumbai ) Someone asked if their products were for Professional audio or Hi Fi. The guy said, he did not understand such a question.... The Sonodyne products were well built, with protection and quality parts... so they should be Great in AMY application. I suspect that is the root cause .... ? :(

Yeah Amp Nut
Typical smartass answer by Sonodyne which proves their undoing regardless of product ability.
Regards Deaf.

A couple of years ago, Sonodyne had an "open House" / demo of their product range, on a Sunday, at La Cosy. ( I think it was immediately After the AV Max show in Mumbai ) Someone asked if their products were for Professional audio or Hi Fi. The guy said, he did not understand such a question.... The Sonodyne products were well built, with protection and quality parts... so they should be Great in AMY application. I suspect that is the root cause .... ?

Thats what always happens ..I mean they employ guys to give demos, but put some sense into their brains..I have actually with my limited knowledge taken some demo guys for a fun ride by asking technical questions and see them come up with some BS explaination with total confidence..Ashok Mehta started off with stereo and should stick to Stereo and Ht is not their ball game..we have onkyo and philips churning cheap HTIB's

Oops soory ManeK Sir, How can I hijack Mod's thread..

here are mine :

Extreme value for money :

1.Parasound 125-Watt THX Ultra2 Certified Two-Channel Amplifier.
2.Cambridge Azur
3.Used good Technics Class A power amps.
4.Sugden A21 ( ya I know it lacks remote , but why do you need one when music is so good it would be the last thing would be you want to fiddle with volume.. )
5.Used Nakamichi PA 7 strata ( designed by famous Nelson Pass)

Waste of money :

1.All amps apart from what I've mentioned above.. ..

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Thats what always happens... I mean they employ guys to give demos, but put some sense into their brains..I have actually with my limited knowledge taken some demo guys for a fun ride by asking technical questions and see them come up with some BS explaination with total confidence.

Yeah, I remember going the B&O showroom some time back. Here are a couple of questions I asked to the guy at the store with answers:

Q: How sensitive are these speakers?
A: "Sir, 200 Watts RMS... that's better than PMPO!" (?)

Q: Er...You already told me their power... how sensitive are they?
A: "Enough to blow your windows away! (with a smile)"

Q: Er... never mind... does this CD player play SACDs?
A: Yes sir! It plays everything! ...including mp3s.

Q: Ok... I'd like to demo this disc in multi-channel SACD mode (I hand the guy the DSOTM SACD)
-He plays the redbook CD mode in stereo!!
I keep quiet for 5 mins then ask him to switch over to the SACD mode...
-He increases the volume!!
"No no... I want to hear it in SACD mode"
-He changes the track (asks me which one I like!)
"Boss!! Does this play SACDs?"
"Sir it plays everything - mp3, VCD, DVD..."
"Then could you please play this disk in SACD mode?"
-He playsthe Hell Freezes Over DVD!! ... and the guy grins.. like... eat yor heart out man..

I leave!

Do keep in mind that for some some reason this guy kept talking in a very very fake so-called-american accent!

You already told me their power... how sensitive are they?

You atleast got a pretty sales answer back...

This is what I asked in Modern world..

Q. Whats the sensitivity of these speakers..
A. Sir these speakers are made of wood and very strong (and gives it a knock) and you also have cloth protecting the speakers and see it's removable (and he removes the grill) so they are not sensitive...Amen I fainted

Do keep in mind that for some some reason this guy kept talking in a very very fake so-called-american accent!

That's to impress spotty ,unshaved , long goatie bearded, loose stinking jeans, torn sneakers which stink to heaven wearing call centre dudes who drop in for a free listen to impress dames before they strat swilling beer in a pub..

My due apologies to call center employees but most of them over do and some have had it from me for good..

What is this going on.....
I will never ask about "Sensitvity" to any store guy here after...Promise..

Cmon guys, before Manek screams and opens another thread...lets get back to the topic and talk about the most overrated and underrated products we have come across.

Do keep in mind that for some some reason this guy kept talking in a very very fake so-called-american accent!

Cant resist my pet bitch ....

Most guys who will have done even a short course in the USA, will cultivate and maintain an 'American' accent for life.... or atleast years.... till they get enough confidence to be themselves again.

The same guys, may spend a decade in the South of India, buit never 'get' that accent..

The same guys, may spend a decade in the South of India, buit never 'get' that accent..

Good observation Amp_Nut Yes it does make me wonder that esp ladies who accompany their husbands to US like baggages have more accent than anyone else..is it a hint she gives world that she used tissues for everything,,

Most guys who will have done even a short course in the USA, will cultivate and maintain an 'American' accent for life

Ridiculous!! this buggers would've worked in some call centers for a short while or so and picked up the accent from Americans but never the right grammar..

That way we should always appreciate BOSE for training their Store guys so well that they can almost handle any customer with their BOSS--EY terminologies and arguments. Thats much better than Sonodyne who cant even talk properly in favour of a genuine product..

Come, come now Mr Pardiwalla, your list please, before we runaway on a tangent

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

You already told me their power... how sensitive are they? You atleast got a pretty sales answer back... This is what I asked in Modern world.. Q. Whats the sensitivity of these speakers.. A. Sir these speakers are made of wood and very strong (and gives it a knock) and you also have cloth protecting the speakers and see it's removable (and he removes the grill) so they are not sensitive...Amen I fainted

Ha, ha, ha, ha!!!
ROTFLMAO!!

i've been reading the posts on Sonodyne & have been very laughing quite a bit.
Thanks for taking the Monday morning blues away for me!
However, this one certainly takes the cake!!

Krish....since you asked here are my options :

Good Value for Money or worthy of their reputation:
1) NAD320BEE (wish it were cheaper in India)
2) Both Cadence VA HP/Class A & Canasyas
3) Audio Analogue Donnizetti (priced very steep here also)
4) Quad 909
5) Arcam power amp - P80

Dont care for the following :
1) Cambridge Audio integrateds
2) Primare integrated
3) Nuforce integrated
4) Cayin integrateds(especially the TA series)
5) Rotel

Manek.

BTW here is avery interesting story...its true !(maybe I've mentioned this before....dont remember.

Customer : Do you have monoblock amplifiers ?
Rotel Dealer : No sir, we only have stereo, the mono amplifiers are very old technology, we dont deal in that anymore !
Customer : No No....I mean monoblock power amps !
Rotel Dealer : Sorry sir, you have to look at a second hand shop. We sell only the latest equipment.

Customer leaves...slapping his head

This happened in a big audio outlet in Andheri.

Manek.

haha I know THE outlet you're talking about. That SHOP is supposed to carry quite a few quality brands!

Shahrukh....

Spot on ! Spot On !

You plenty Shmart...brother

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

BTW here is avery interesting story...its true !(maybe I've mentioned this before....dont remember. Customer : Do you have monoblock amplifiers ? Rotel Dealer : No sir, we only have stereo, the mono amplifiers are very old technology, we dont deal in that anymore ! Customer : No No....I mean monoblock power amps ! Rotel Dealer : Sorry sir, you have to look at a second hand shop. We sell only the latest equipment. Customer leaves...slapping his head This happened in a big audio outlet in Andheri. Manek.

Maybe the next time around you should try Gujrati with a Kathiawadi accent.Or maybe he understood what you meant and was guiding you to his main shop, a Raddiwalla ka dukan.
Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Maybe the next time around you should try Gujrati with a Kathiawadi accent.Or maybe he understood what you meant and was guiding you to his main shop, a Raddiwalla ka dukan. Deaf.

you guys are cracking me up!!

Manek schrieb:

BTW here is avery interesting story...its true !(maybe I've mentioned this before....dont remember. Customer : Do you have monoblock amplifiers ? Rotel Dealer : No sir, we only have stereo, the mono amplifiers are very old technology, we dont deal in that anymore ! Customer : No No....I mean monoblock power amps ! Rotel Dealer : Sorry sir, you have to look at a second hand shop. We sell only the latest equipment. Customer leaves...slapping his head This happened in a big audio outlet in Andheri. Manek.

Manek,
This just shows the status of the so called audio shops and their salesmen, who do not know anything about audio nor are interested in learning nor have the passion. Sad but true. This is the same case in most of the shops in india.

Recently I went to Giriha's to look at what's new on the TV/DVDP front and told the sales guy to connect a DVDP to the TV, the guy takes a 3rca to 3rca, takes the red and white and plugs it into the front audio left & right and the yellow in the composite on the TV and on the other end of the dvdp he plugs them all into the component. Good lord, he is shocked when no pictures comes.

I ask just for the heck of it: Which is the best connectors for highest video quality and

HE: Sir, composite is the best, then S-Video & lastly worst component.

I just got so pissed that I thought I must atleast teach this guy, so gave him my visiting card and told him to drop in for a small course for free and he is still coming. In other words these guys are not interested in even learing the correct thing.

Rgds

Prithvi

Life just reflects Economics and thence the The seller just reflects the buyer.. only if less than .5 % of the buyer knows what he is looking for, I guess the seller is not even bothered to know

am sure cases like the above happens in a shop only 1 in every 3-4 months, if not even less

I remember going into a "prominent shop" in Domlur more than a year back and since they had a B&W asked the sales guy that I wanted to remove the speaker grill to see the kevlar drivers and he gave me a "YOu seem to know nothing about audio look " and dismissed me saying that in high end speakers that was the driver... apparently as per him speaker cones are used only in Mini Compos and kevlar is the filling INSIDE the speaker to keep it stable and strong.

needless to say I fled home and did not even ask him about the TV i was planning to buy

heh heh....
deaf....these guys will never change.

manek.

I remember going into a "prominent shop" in Domlur

It's the same shop where I had a faboulous experience

BTW I havent seen any commercial members post their preferences....

Manek schrieb:

BTW I havent seen any commercial members post their preferences.... :KR

Oh I did, it is called Manek and the model is called Troublemaker .
Regards Deaf.

ha ha !

C'mon guys this is cold bizarre..total hijack

lets get bck to what chief started off with
Reputation : Amps that live up/Amps which don

Ok here goes,the best amp in world pound for pound is the Gamut D200 Mklll.I know I will get shot for this, but let me say this,I know of no amp in the world as self effacing as this one.It simply does not exist in the chain,as it neither adds nor detracts from the signal.A true straight line with gain, regardless of price.The fact that it is state of the art sound,despite existing for for 24 years, with only 2 upgrades during this period says a lot about this design.The Mkl series of 2 decades ago is upgradeable to Mklll status for only 1200 Euros, that is incredible,as one has the latest design for a fraction of the cost of a new poweramp.
My 2 bit, I know I am going to get flak, but Manek ,you wanted to hear it, so I did it.
Regards Deaf.

P.S:The D200 has got the highest points by Jean Hiraga, in Review du Son, along with the Cadence Canasya,identical points. .

deaf schrieb:

Ok here goes,the best amp in world pound for pound is the Gamut D200 Mklll.I know I will get shot for this, but let me say this,I know of no amp in the world as self effacing as this one.It simply does not exist in the chain,as it neither adds nor detracts from the signal.A true straight line with gain, regardless of price.The fact that it is state of the art sound,despite existing for for 24 years, with only 2 upgrades during this period says a lot about this design.The Mkl series of 2 decades ago is upgradeable to Mklll status for only 1200 Euros, that is incredible,as one has the latest design for a fraction of the cost of a new poweramp. My 2 bit, I know I am going to get flak, but Manek ,you wanted to hear it, so I did it. Regards Deaf. P.S:The D200 has got the highest points by Jean Hiraga, in Review du Son, along with the Cadence Canasya,identical points. .

have heard and read about it especially about the classic straight wire with gain.

If anybody is interested there is a 2nd hand one for sale in singapore
http://www.soundscap...fiers.htm#gamut-d200

Hi Deaf,
You have stated the best...now is the turn to state the worst..
Cmon buddy, tell us which amps do you feel are duds...

deaf...atleast I am not going to give you any flack.

If you believe that the gamut is really good so be it...

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

deaf...atleast I am not going to give you any flack. If you believe that the gamut is really good so be it... Manek.

Thank you Manek,I thought others would kill me, not you.
Deaf.

Deaf,
I dont think others will grab you so long as you believe in the product. Thats what this thread is about, belief in brands.

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

Deaf, I dont think others will grab you so long as you believe in the product. Thats what this thread is about, belief in brands. Manek.

As well as products that we dont believe in...
Cmon guys this aspect also as important.

Manek schrieb:

Deaf, I dont think others will grab you so long as you believe in the product. Thats what this thread is about, belief in brands. Manek.

True my friend,thank you.
True Abhi, fiend.Notice a crucial 'r' missing .
Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Ok here goes,the best amp in world pound for pound is the Gamut D200 Mklll.I know I will get shot for this, but let me say this,I know of no amp in the world as self effacing as this one.It simply does not exist in the chain,as it neither adds nor detracts from the signal.A true straight line with gain, regardless of price.The fact that it is state of the art sound,despite existing for for 24 years, with only 2 upgrades during this period says a lot about this design.The Mkl series of 2 decades ago is upgradeable to Mklll status for only 1200 Euros, that is incredible,as one has the latest design for a fraction of the cost of a new poweramp. My 2 bit, I know I am going to get flak, but Manek ,you wanted to hear it, so I did it. Regards Deaf. P.S:The D200 has got the highest points by Jean Hiraga, in Review du Son, along with the Cadence Canasya,identical points. .

Deaf,
Gamut has good sound overall. I've heard it a few times now + in BOM as well. I would say that its sound is on the warm side.
Plus, IMHO, I've found Gamut works best in an all-Gamut system.

Anyway, like Manek said, I don't think that we'll give you crap for believing in Gamut. You are a "commercial" member & probably sell Gamut 'cuz you believe in it. That's good indeed. Thanks for showing us your hand!
Best Regards,

Dear Bombaywalla,
Most people infact find the amp too neutral or unemotional,so I am surprised you found it warm.I find it absolutely invisible, for lack of better words.
With regards to an all Gamut system,only one such system exists in India.All the other systems use other speakers, including the best Cadence Arca setup I have ever heard.The amplifier is designed for studio monitoring and also mastering puposes.The worlds largest studio monitoring system uses them at PUK studios in Denmark.The National Radio in Denmark uses them for their monitoring,and thats saying a lot.I have heard almost every highend solid state amp in the world, and I can say this amp is the most neutral regardless of price.This is my opinion and other milage may vary.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Dear Bombaywalla, Most people infact find the amp too neutral or unemotional,so I am surprised you found it warm.I find it absolutely invisible, for lack of better words. With regards to an all Gamut system,only one such system exists in India.All the other systems use other speakers, including the best Cadence Arca setup I have ever heard.The amplifier is designed for studio monitoring and also mastering puposes.The worlds largest studio monitoring system uses them at PUK studios in Denmark.The National Radio in Denmark uses them for their monitoring,and thats saying a lot.I have heard almost every highend solid state amp in the world, and I can say this amp is the most neutral regardless of price.This is my opinion and other milage may vary. Regards Deaf.

Interesting.In fact I second Bombaywallah's opinion, I too felt that the all Gamut system at the Times AV show sounded warm.

BTW your set up at the Times AV show was superb.My comment really is based on listening to that set-up.

K

Those amps are the new M230 monoblocks which do have a warmer tone(audiophilic?) than the D200Mklll.The original amp is stark neutral.As I said individual milage varies.
Regards Deaf.

I must thank you Krish, for your kind comments.Once again Thank you.
Regards Deaf.