Holfi Xandra MP player

Arj schrieb:

wasnt the Firewire used in DCS components ?

Upsampling to DSD is done within the dCS Transports.

For signals of 32, 44.1, 48, 88.2 & 96kS/s data is transmitted via - optical, dig coax (rca), bnc and AES.

Dual AES can carry 88.2, 96, 176.4 or 192kS/s.

The firewire is the 'ONLY' interface that will upsample to DSD (1 bit data at 2.822MS/s).

So one has to use a Firewire cable from the Transport to the Dac to enjoy DSD signals.

For Clocking functions - the Transport, Dac and Upsampler are connected to the Master Clock via BNC for seemless integration.

Regards
SNV

Manek schrieb:

Ampnut Another strong case for a one box cdp rather than a transport+dac combo unless there is an i2s out on transport and i2s in on dac. 20 cms may be managable if the dac+transport are directly placed on top of each other. Manek

Unless ofcourse, as Ampnut rightly mentioned in his last post, you use a dedicated Master Clock.

Regards
SNV

Manek schrieb:

Another strong case for a one box cdp rather than a transport+dac combo unless there is an i2s out on transport and i2s in on dac. 20 cms may be managable if the dac+transport are directly placed on top of each other. Manek

true. a CDP with digital in might be the best way of future proofing

the only combination i know which has I2S is the Northstar Trpt/DAc combo..and they are designed , i believe, to be kept on on top of the other.

SNV schrieb:

For Clocking functions - the Transport, Dac and Upsampler are connected to the Master Clock via BNC for seemless integration. Regards SNV

I did not know that..thanks SNV

true. a CDP with digital in might be the best way of future proofing

In principle, yeas. In practice, there are penalties. I SUSPECT that the SPDIF input on the CD player is a bit opf an after thought, and not too much effort gone into the SPDIF to I2S interface inside the CD player.

Let me relate my experience ....

Some months ago, I had the priveledge to listen at home, to a Top Flight CD player with an external SPDIF input facility.

I had just brought in the Wadia Digital iDOCK which provides an SPDIF output from the iPod. I ripped a CD ( Patricia BVarber - Cafe Blue ) in WAV format, put it on the pod and ran it thru the Digital Dock and from there to the CD Player.

Comparision of the CD played from the CD Player and the iDoc ... chalk and cheese. The CD replay was Streets ahead. The iDoc digital was a distinct Mid Fi sound.

I blamed the iDOCK.

I sold the iDOCK. The IDOCK buyer has 2 systems, one with a Benck mark DEAC and another with a Bel Canto DAC. The iDock sounded pretty close to the CD onm the benchmark DAC, when compared to a CDR.

I then attributed it to probably the rest iof the Hi Fi Chain not being revealing enough.

( the Benchmark DAC has immaculate paper specs, and great jitter correction. However, I would rate its sound as the upper end of Mid Fi... IMHO Ofcourse ! )

Last month, read Stereophile's review of the Wadia Digital Doc. The review fed it to (their fav ) benchmark DAC.

The reviewer Repeatedly said that he could not differentiate the sound from the DOC to the CD played thru the Benchmark DAC.

I found that hard to believe ......

Then read a few words on the tech measurements..... the Wadia OC with the iPod has a Huge amount of jitter... something, I suspect the benchmark DAC handles well.... and the top flight CD Player at my house, probably was not well equiped for...

Hence I would think that it would be un-reasonable to expect a CD player with external SPDIF inputs, to have lavished care, attention and expense for the external SPDIF inputs, that has been lavished on the CD Player's primary path & circuits....


Holfi Cow !

I / We have hijacked this thread . Sorry Deaf ...

OK, what I believe you are looking for is

1. Capability to play cds
2. Capability to take an HDD audio out from your existing collection.

Not considering jitter
for 1. you anyway need a cdplayer. (or transport + Dac)
for 2 you need a standalone dac or Dac facility


Considering Jitter
For 1 a single box is perhaps the answer

For 2 you do not have an answer yet as most digital output (except for , i believe empirical audio) has high jitter problem. so it could be either some form of Low Jitter SPDIF converter or some good USB DAC ??

Am i right if that above is the problem ?

are you really sure you want 1 piece to do both ? perhaps not mixing the two and thinking 2 separate solutions ie 1 source for CD playback and another for your HDD might be a good option ?

1) USB Vs SPDIF

The underlying implementation on most machines, simply translate SPDIF To USB and back. Then comes all the other processing of the signal

Hence USB cannot be better than SPDIF...impossible given it is only SPDIF underneath !!

2) Transmitting I2S Over Cables to other equipment

Not a very good idea. You need to remember that the "Cable" by itself is a big factor at these levels of play. You need a SPDIF incase of CD and i do not think you have any choice. Even here the "digital cable" and the interface is a very big factor. I use a very expensive isolation transformer for SPDIF signal, which is not found even in some of the most expensive systems (Reimyo and some of AN products have...but then again not the best quality).

3) iDock not sounding good as a CD.

Well!! it depends on the "Transport". Remember transport is not only the "SPDIF" factor. There is a big difference between the CDPRO2M and the regular CDM12 transport you find in many system. This difference cannot be underestimated. If the iPOD sounds as good as a CDM12, then it is still not as good as a CD (with respect to highest quality of CD playback that is possible). I've also heard other more expensive transports, that beats by CDPRO2M.

Regards
Siva.

Hello Arj,

You are correct.

I dont believe that HDD playback has reached a satisfactory level, for the equipment & price point that i have in mind.

I would like to dabble in HDD Playback, as a "Work In Progress"

Currently my primary focus is good CD Playback.

If a CD Player can offer a digital in, that would be Very Nice, but its not a mandatory requirement at all, for me.

I can always consider a separate buy of a DAC for HDD playback.

Cheers & Thanks for your interaction

Siva had raised another point in another discussion of the ripped file itself having some inbuilt jitter.
..so untill i understand this better, I too, very sadly had to reach the same conclusion. so it is a CDP transport for me now !

I dont believe that HDD playback has reached a satisfactory level, for the equipment & price point that i have in mind. I would like to dabble in HDD Playback, as a "Work In Progress"

I guess now we can get back to the Holfi.
Siva has given the "teaser" on it awaiting you responce after an audition. i had never heard of the Holfi till now and it sounds like another good manufacturer to be aware of.

sivat schrieb:

1) USB Vs SPDIF The underlying implementation on most machines, simply translate SPDIF To USB and back. Then comes all the other processing of the signal Hence USB cannot be better than SPDIF...impossible given it is only SPDIF underneath !! .

Siva, would this mean that the clock signal get lost in this conversion ? in that case jitter should be very high and the origin al clock completely lost such that it cannot even be "Dejitterised " ?

Arj, plz note that SPDIF or transmission over digital cable are NOT the only reason for Jitter. Jitter is caused by a lot of other factors as well. It's just too complicated to write over a few para on these pages..

The clocking signals are taken care by CODECs like 2904 from Burr Brown. Take a look at the following doc...you will get a better understanding. U need some patience though

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm2706.pdf

Amp_Nut_Jee, there is a coverage of I2S in the above document. However, i'm not aware of any such commercial implementation...wanna try

Sivat-ji,

Many thanks for the pointer.... the datasheet is sooo comprehensive, that I would rather read the newspaper

I suspect this is really a low end DAC, for portable consumer audio applications.

For forum members who would like to understand, thru a Block diagram approach eg :

DAC with I2S + SPDIF Module

check out the kits (assembled also available ) at this site:

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com

Good stuff, reasonably priced.

A choice of 3 DACs..

Full Ckt diags, no Hocus pocus...

Any new updates on this thread? The discussion here was so nice.
regards,
christine
Simulation prêt

cjacobbs schrieb:

Any new updates on this thread? The discussion here was so nice. regards, christine Simulation prêt

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