Satellites or full range??!

Since space is really an issue for you a Sat/Sub combo should be it. Personally I’d go for a full sized system (proper bookshelfs etc) if space permits. I just feel that with satellites there some sort of frequency gap in the delivery.

The 3 systems you are considering are all very good based on the reviews I’ve read. Personally I’d go for the Genie over the KEF’s. I won’t comment on the Def Techs as I have not had the chance to listen to one. I’d look to Marantz if the system will be used more for music.

CR.

Hey bro,

Thanks for your suggestion. I'd go for full range speakers anyday myself, if space permits. Considering this setup to cost almost as much as a full range budget setup I think this would be the right setup especially since they are quite high-end in terms of sub/sat systems. I'd like a marantz too, but strangely enough there are absolutely no reviews of it anywhere.

Any more suggestions guys? Do write up.

Have a great weekend.
Jeetu

I would certainly recommend Marantz + KEF. Audition all of them and then decide.

I would highly recommend the DefTech Pro Cinema 100 with marantz combo.
i would not call the def tech a sub sat system. These guys play as clean and as loud as full range speakers.

The Def tech would blow away the competition IMHO.

Audition it, you will not be disaapointed am sure.

Saachi

I "second the motion" of SDHawan and Savyasaachi - audition all 3 systems (preferably driven by a Marantz receiver of your choice) then let your ears decide.

Go to www.audioholics.com and www.avsforum.com. Go to the amps/receiver section. You'll see quite a number of threads related to Marantz.

Happy Hunting!

CR

Hi,

I would recommend the Marantz av reciever with the Kef KHT 2005 package.
The Def Tech Procinema 1000 is excellent for movies. The Kef is better for music, IMO.
You could also consider the new av recievers from Marantz sr4001 & sr 5001.
Prices on the Kef 2005 have been dropped in the UK from 800 pounds to 500. Try and negotiate with profx on the price.

Regards
SNV

Hey thanx so much guys for all your suggestions. Will talk to the profx and audio planet guy on KEF and Marantz today and the Lakozy guy on Def Techs. How about Mordaunt Short guys, anybody? I read in many places that the MS Genies beat the KEFs in many places including the price. So how about a Genie/Denon (AVR1907) combination? Could go with Marantz as well.

Cheers,
Jeetu.

I guess I'm the only one in the lot who'd go for the Genie over the KEF's. Marantz or Denon will go well with the Genies. As I said in my earlier post I can't comment on the Def Techs coz I have not heard one. Although I have a friend in the US who swears by them.

Take in all the recos...look at reviews for whatever its worth - which to me is pointing one in the right direction. At the end of the day it's important to audition all your choices and let your ears decide. Take your own sweet time...

Keep us posted.

CR

I would go for the Mirage omni series anyday.

they are placement insensitive and give you a soundstage irrespective of the placement..very easy to plaec in a drawing room without any compromises

Also being a technology-Buff, loved their innovative tweeter placement.

also sensitive enough to be ru by any amp.

Hey guys,

Hope you had a great time at the Expo. I did think of Mirage earlier Arj but I guess it's the most expensive of the lot. That's why I had to zero in on KEF, MS, and Def Tech. Anyways I will be deciding in the next week or two. The Def Tech guy told me that Procinema is a very powerful system and is better if driven by an Onkyo or else it won't perform to its fullest. He suggest SR604 to be sufficient. If not it would be Denon/KEF combination or Marantz/MS Genie combination. I've got to go to both of these places and audition them first. Keep u'r opinions coming. I had a good time at the Expo and picked myself a Creative Zen! Sounds and looks pretty darn good, and I've always liked the IPOD killers better

Cheers Fellas!

Hi fellow HT mates,

Here's the result of my two-week long hunt and audition of the systems mentioned above. Well, actually I was only able to listen to one setup from the three combinations. I got to audition the MS Genies at Audio Planet with a Yamaha RX receiver. After listening to my own jazz/classical CDs and a King Kong DVD, I felt the genies sounded clean and sweet, although the demo guy told me they sound fantastic with a Marantz receiver. Got the prices for these and they seem fine.

My next stop was Profx for Denon & Kef 2005.2s. I was only able to talk to the guys about the pricing and there was no audition coz they said the 2005s have now been replaced by 3005s! And the 3005s are way expensive (almost 20K more than their descendants). But the guy told me he could still get me the 2005s but at the same price that they were 4 years ago!!! After much negotiating he would only give me a 12% discount on 71K. Is it worth it? I also asked him for Denon 1906/2106 with this combination and he said they replace all the older models with new ones so there's no chance to get them. So that was the experience for my second choice.

The third was Def Tech Pro 800s with either a Yamaha/Onkyo receiver. Again for this I was not able to get any info. I had been calling the Pranav Acoustics guy who incidentally stays close to where I'm located in Kumara Park and he seemed quite uninterested in suggesting anything to me. He mentioned that he only does "high end setup" and is very busy and he doesn't usually do entry-level/mid-range HT. Also said that there would be no auditioning of these and that if I wanted them, he would source them from Bombay along with a receiver of my choice.

So at the end of two weeks I'm still confused. Guys, is there any other place where I could listen to the Kefs and get a good price in Bangalore? As far as Def Techs, again any other place other than Pranav would be good as I want to listen to them. I wrote directly to Def Tech USA to ask for a suitable receiver and a tech guy from there replied and said any "high power" amp would work great with them but never mentioned Marantz because of its conservative ratings I guess. Please give me your feedback guys.

Cheers! (Hope you have a free Sunday to read such a long post!)

I'd stay away from that Pranav Acoustics guy...a store personnel recommending to buy gear without the benefit of listening to the stuff is obviously out to make a quick buck.

If you're open to other options I'd recommend that you audition the ff:

1. Athena
a. Micra 6 system Athena Micra 6
- sub/sat system
b. Point 5 MKII system Athena Point 5
- Mini-bookshelfs with 2 drivers...a 1" tweeter and a 4" woofer
- S.5 x 4 for front and surrounds and one C.5 (1" tweeter and 2 4" woofers) for the center - the downside here is that the package does not come with a sub

* Athena is part of a Canadian group that handles Energy and Mirage speakers.

2. Wharfedale Movie Star 70 series
- sub/sat system

Both systems offer great VFM.

CR

Hi Jeetu,
I dont know why you have not yet visited the Sonodyne Listening room in Bangalore (Forum mall). It is the most accessible demo room I suppose. To my ears till date, their AVR300 receiver and Genie1, Genie2 Sattelite speakers provide the most VFM sound quality in the sub-sat domain. I didnt mention about their sub-woofer because there are better subs out there from likes of Wharfdale and its kinds.
Sub is something that you can check out other brands as well and buy separately. But as for the AVR and Satts check them out and you will be pleasantly surprised (especially Genie2).
Let us know your feedback on this setup once you hear it.

Hey thanx so much for the suggestion Abhi. I was gonna visit Forum this week by the way. I will surely take a listen and see how it is. By the way any opinions about the three combinations I chose? If you read the whole thread you'll know what I'm talking about. Let me know.

The rest of the readers of this thread, please give me any suggestions/input you've got from my experience. It would be really valuable for me.

Cheers.

I would also suggest you check out the Q Acoustics 1010 sat/sub package:

4 1010's for the front and surrounds
1000C center speaker
1000S sub

This was one of the options I looked at and auditioned (abroad) when I was building a second HT set up in our place. Nice clean sound. Design is also spot on. You can purchase the items separately or as a package. I believe ProFx is the dealer of Q Acoustics in India. The package will probably set you back anywhere between 40-45k here in India.

Check out their site -> Q Acoustics site

CR

Hi Jeetu,
Do take your own CDs/DVDs when you go for audition.

Regarding the system you have mentioned, in the first setup I would remove the Yamaha reciever and replace it by a Marantz or a Sonodyne...otherwise they are good.

The second and the third I have not heard hence cant comment.

Hi guys,

Thanks for more and more feedback coming my way. It's only refining my quest to much finer details. I asked Profx about Q Acoustics some time ago and they said they had stopped getting those! I wonder when they were ever dealing with Q. So if there's any other place where I could check Q Acoustics, please let me know.

Cheers.

I heard the nanosats for a short while. They were playing some action movie. I found the sound quite "shrill" or "bright". I'm sure that an hour of listening to that system would give me a headache.
Maybe it was because the showroom had glass all over? The shelves and doors were all glass. I really hope the other sub-sats systems fare better.

jeetu_AVFreak schrieb:

Hi guys, Thanks for more and more feedback coming my way. It's only refining my quest to much finer details. I asked Profx about Q Acoustics some time ago and they said they had stopped getting those! I wonder when they were ever dealing with Q. So if there's any other place where I could check Q Acoustics, please let me know. Cheers.

It will be worth your while to check again with ProFx. I called them up in Q4 last year here in Mumbai (their store in Cross Roads) to check if I can audition the Q Acoustics 1010 5.1 package…they said yes. Unfortunately I did not get around to auditioning them here…I ended up auditioning the package in when I was in Kuala Lumpur on a business trip.

Guys, here's a new update on Q Acoustics. I wrote directly to their UK HQ and what do I get? A mail from Profx that they would be able to help me get info on the Q series. Then I get another mail saying due to pressure they had to get Q to India, but nobody is really interested on enquiring about them, so I won't be able to audition or see them anywhere! How about that for help. Anyway I asked one of the sales guys to give me KEF 2005.2 and that my max budget for the package is 50K. Let's see what he says. No luck with Def Techs anywhere yet. Looks like in the end I will be closing in on the Genies/Marantz 5600 only. If you've got any messages for me, do update.

Have a great day.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Hi Jeetu, I dont know why you have not yet visited the Sonodyne Listening room in Bangalore (Forum mall). It is the most accessible demo room I suppose. To my ears till date, their AVR300 receiver and Genie1, Genie2 Sattelite speakers provide the most VFM sound quality in the sub-sat domain. I didnt mention about their sub-woofer because there are better subs out there from likes of Wharfdale and its kinds. Sub is something that you can check out other brands as well and buy separately. But as for the AVR and Satts check them out and you will be pleasantly surprised (especially Genie2). Let us know your feedback on this setup once you hear it. ;)

What about this ?? Could you check them out ?

Hi Abhi,

Yup these are on my list and I'm going to Forum this weekend. Let's see how it goes. Will surely update once I audition them.

Cheers.

I also wrote to Q Acoustics directly last year enquiring who their dealer is in India. They promptly forwarded my note to Pro Fx. A guy from their Bombay branch called me - if I’m not mistaken his name is Yusuf – he told me that I can audition the package here in Bombay. So it is safe to assume that they have the stuff here. You may want to ask again.

By the way were you able to audition the Athenas?

Nope I was not able to audition them. They are marketed by Rivera International in Bombay but I don't know who has them over here. So I'm yet to find out that. But I remember seeing the same exact model that you were referring to in the AV show. Pity we couldn't listen to anything there. Do send me the address of the Athena dealer in Bangalore. I would surely go and give them a listen. What do you feel about 50k for KEF 2005.2? The guy has not agreed to give them to me for that price, but is it okay to ask for that price? The profx guys somehow seemed to not go beyond 12% for any of their equipment. God knows how they're getting their business. Also Mordaunt Genies are only 46K compared to Kefs and my mind seems to be pulling towards them (with Marantz 5600) day after day since most of my other auditions went futile.

Mordaunt Genies are only 46K compared to Kefs and my mind seems to be pulling towards them (with Marantz 5600)

Is it 46k including the 5600 ???

Oh no dude. About 46K for the Genies and about 32 for the 5600. Think that's ok? The Genies were sweet man. Have you seen them?

I think I have seen them....
But I would anyday prefer the Genie-2 sattelites from Sonodyne...much more detailed and full-range sound IMO.

Each Genie-2 satt costs around 6k which means you get five of them for 30k (approx). For the sub, I would prefer a Wharfdale SW-150 over a Sonodyne. For the AVR I am rather divided between the Sonodyne AVR-300 and Marantz 5600. The reason I am divided is, the AVR-300 is just around 17k (almost half the price of 5600) but still does an amazing job with HT. For stereo Marantz has an edge when you play in the pure direct mode....but for all that you are also paying almost 14-15k more...for that money you can actually buy a decent entry level Stereo amp which would blow away the Marantz in stereo reproduction.

Hope I am not confusing you....
My point is, if you only want to drive satts then you dont need the added power reserve of the 5600. Instead if you wanted the 5600 for its stereo capability then why not go for a dedicated stereo amp for the same money that you would save by buying a really good but entry level AVR (in this case Sonodyne)!!!! Go ahead and audition them and then let us know what you think.

Hi Guys,

On Abhi's suggestion, I'd gone to audition the Sonodyne Genies. My friend owns them with the Sonodyne AVR, so it was easier for me to audition and I took my time too. These little guys are good looking and quite loud. As earlier, I had taken my own test discs and listened to both music and movies and it sounded quite full bodied. I'm even more confused now!

Abhi, I agree on your suggestions, but on the other hand, there's only so much my listening area can take. So it's either a HT setup or a stereo setup. When I'm ready with a bigger house I'd probably have a separate stereo setup, how bout Cambridge Azur 640 Series with Epos?!! Anyways for now it's gonna be a HT setup that sounds great with music and the Sonodynes were no losers, though the AVR is a bit cheap looking. I have about a month's time to look around and decide. Let's see if I come across something else. Keep your opinions coming.

Cheers guys

As earlier, I had taken my own test discs and listened to both music and movies and it sounded quite full bodied.

Good to see you liked them..
I have a similar inference about them, they are actually very warm and full bodied speakers and definitely defy their size with the kind of presentation they project.
Especially the Genie-2, I like them a lot. Except for the bass (anyway they are satts), they do almost everything that a full range speaker is supposed to do.

Abhi, I agree on your suggestions, but on the other hand, there's only so much my listening area can take.

Couldnt get this !!
You dont have the space for accommodating the genies ??
Or are you looking at bookshelf speakers ?? I thought you are looking at sub-satt combo..

how bout Cambridge Azur 640 Series with Epos?!!

Cambridge 640 AVR or Stereo amp ??
Epos bookshelf ??? They are around 36k a pair, will it fit your budget for the HT ?

Anyways for now it's gonna be a HT setup that sounds great with music and the Sonodynes were no losers, though the AVR is a bit cheap looking.

Expecting good stereo performance from a AVR is very common but the most difficult to achieve. As far as I have seen, very very few AVRs deliver the tonal quality of a decent stereo amp at the entry level. Here are they:

1. Marantz AVRs (any model)
2. Sonodyne AVR300 (very decent performance for the price)
3. Nad (they are a bit expensive)
4. Cambridge Audio (very laid back but still decent)

The ones that NEVER did well in stereo in my experience:

1. Yamaha (not even the higher end ones)
2. Denon (pure HT stuff)
3. Onkyo (reliable HT but poor stereo)
4. Pioneer

So its now upto you to divide your budget in a manner which helps you get the best sound.
Remember to keep aside 20k for the sub...dont compromise here.
Sonodyne AVR may look cheap because they dont possess the shiny metal finish, but their tonality is very stereo-like IMO. Marantz is a strong contender if you are looking at stereo, but you have to pay more.

Let us know when you decide something..enjoy your ride buddy, its one of the most exciting aspect of this hobby.

Hey Abhi,

Heh heh heh, I thoroughly managed to confuse you also didn't I? Ok first things first, what I meant by "limited space" was, I have only enough space to accomodate a good HT system OR a good stereo setup. You were saying that I should save up on the AVR and get the Sonodyne and get a dedicated stereo amp, that's why I said there's limited space. Man, going around for a system can be quite a hunt. But its so much fun too. It's the aftermath of an audition that can really get to you. By then, you would have added and subtracted many combinations and you yourself are not aware of what's the final result!!

Anyways, I completly go by you when you say stereo AVRs and that's why I'm planning to stick to Marantz. Funny how we never see anything written about the poor dudes. The build quality is awesome, personally the looks are fantastic and they look so chunky. Sound very good, yet we hardly see reviews. Instead we see their cousin brothers [Denons] everywhere being praised about how good they are for HT and music. The Yamahas too. So many American and UK Hifi sites sing in their praise. I sometimes don't know whether to go by these guys or not. But then aren't they supposed to be the "pros" having the last word on Hifi? Aren't they the ones gifted with listening rooms, test setups and what nots? Here we don't even get to demo stuff at home and return them back!! It's a strange and confusing world out there! Let me know what you think.

Good day dude,
Jeetu.

Agree with u,regarding the built quality of marantz avr's.2 days back my friend got one.we compared it with a denon.the denon looked plasticky [1906].even if u know nothing about about hifi,u will select the marantz by the the built quality alone .even soundwise the marantz was more relaxed,for music[and movies too].he ultimately chose the marantz[sr5600=26k].many people in this forum has got this amp,including me and two of my friends.

Any luck with the Athena's and Q Acoustics?

Agree with abhi.pani on stereo performance of the Marantz AVR. I have a Marantz and an Onkyo 604 AVR. The Marantz 4600 is the clear winner over the Onkyo in pure direct mode.

Do you really need the 5600 to drive the satellites? I think you can stick with the 4600 and use the money you'll save as extra budget for the speakers.

Anyways, I completly go by you when you say stereo AVRs and that's why I'm planning to stick to Marantz. Funny how we never see anything written about the poor dudes. The build quality is awesome, personally the looks are fantastic and they look so chunky. Sound very good, yet we hardly see reviews. Instead we see their cousin brothers [Denons] everywhere being praised about how good they are for HT and music. The Yamahas too. So many American and UK Hifi sites sing in their praise. I sometimes don't know whether to go by these guys or not. But then aren't they supposed to be the "pros" having the last word on Hifi? Aren't they the ones gifted with listening rooms, test setups and what nots? Here we don't even get to demo stuff at home and return them back!! It's a strange and confusing world out there! Let me know what you think.

Buddy Jeetu,
Everything thats good need not have reviews and everything thats reviewed (and raved) need not be good.
All these things are purely driven by business...if a brand gives business to the mag world, you would find many favourable reviews of their products. We have already discussed a lot in this forum about how to READ reviews and how are these organized..."Most reviews are pre-meditated". A good writer only presents the review in a manner so that the mediocrity of the product is left to be interpreted by the reader if he can read between the lines. You would normally not find a mediocre product being pitted against a good product and former winning the show....normally it doesnt happen that way. Even if it happens, there is so much to read between the lines that a intelligent reader can easily take his pick. So dont worry about "how many reviews" !! You are not supposed to consider reviews as certificates!!! They are only pointers to the products available in the market. Your ears have to validate whether the reviews were in the right direction or not. Moreover most of the smaller brands dont enjoy as many reviews (may be because they cant buy them ).

abhi.pani schrieb:

Buddy Jeetu, Everything thats good need not have reviews and everything thats reviewed (and raved) need not be good. All these things are purely driven by business...if a brand gives business to the mag world, you would find many favourable reviews of their products. We have already discussed a lot in this forum about how to READ reviews and how are these organized..."Most reviews are pre-meditated". A good writer only presents the review in a manner so that the mediocrity of the product is left to be interpreted by the reader if he can read between the lines. You would normally not find a mediocre product being pitted against a good product and former winning the show....normally it doesnt happen that way. Even if it happens, there is so much to read between the lines that a intelligent reader can easily take his pick. So dont worry about "how many reviews" !! You are not supposed to consider reviews as certificates!!! They are only pointers to the products available in the market. Your ears have to validate whether the reviews were in the right direction or not. Moreover most of the smaller brands dont enjoy as many reviews (may be because they cant buy them ).

the same goes for reviews from users on audio forums.
Cause, you end up with the phrase "trust your ears only" at the end of almost every review and opinion.
Just an observation, not meaning to start a flame up here.

the same goes for reviews from users on audio forums. Cause, you end up with the phrase "trust your ears only" at the end of almost every review and opinion. Just an observation, not meaning to start a flame up here.

Completely agree...
But I would any day trust a genuine forum member's (not commercial members) opinion than a mag sheerly since mambers could be considered more reasonable and honest as there is no monetary benefits involved while writing a review. And people here are happy to say "Trust your ears" at the end of the review because they believe it to be the basic foundation of choosing hifi...but its not as clear in the mag world IMO.

Hey Abhi,

Great thought. Ultimately I guess it all boils down to us and what we like to listen to and are inclined to. The reviews from other members definitely helps as they are actually listening to stuff in real world settings and not in some studio or demo room. If so many guys bet on a product then surely that must be good. I had the same experience when I listened to the Genies. Well said Abhi.

I'm yet to audition Athenas and Q Acoustics, no luck. Like I mentioned earlier the Profx guys do not have them and don't plan to get them. I guess they're afraid people will like them so much that KEF will go out of business! Hee hee. Anyways Neono says he got SR5600 for 26K. Is that a good deal? Is it from Audio Planet or elsewhere? Let me know.

Good day.

Anyways Neono says he got SR5600 for 26K. Is that a good deal? Is it from Audio Planet or elsewhere? Let me know.

Hi Jeetu,
Its a steal but I am afraid it should be a gray purchase...you cant get it at this price with papers....are you willing to go gray ??

BTW, I have auditioned SR-5500 and 4500 side by side and there was hardly any audible difference at listenable loudness, so I suppose 5500 would have added power which you need only when you are driving difficult speakers else you wont...atleast for sub-satt you wont require the 5500's additional power IMO.

Hey Abhi,

I don't know about going gray. Audio Planet gets you with papers right? May cost about 3 to 4K extra (for 5600) if I buy it from him, but as long as it's safe, I'm fine. That would be a better option instead of buying from untrustworthy sources. I opted for 5600 coz we plan to move out of the house and I would surely want to buy two towers for the amp and use them as fronts just in case they need more power. But otherwise I'm ok with 4600 only.

It wouldnt be 3-4k extra..it would be around 8-10k extra I suppose. Even if you use floors, the power reserve of 5600 would be useful only if you plan to use it in a big room, say some where around 300sqft or more...anything within 200-250 sqft, 4600 should suffice.

Super! I will try to listen to 4600 then. Any other places other than Audio Planet for Marantz? I don't want to go to Decibels for their unrealistic prices. Also these showroom guys always rant about how the older models have been replaced by new ones and that they won't be getting them anymore. Could you suggest some good interconnects too? I already have Vivanco component cables for TV. I would need interconnects for audio and speaker cables too.

Thanks!

Hi Jeetu,
Audio Planet is a very decent dealer...and they quote realistic prices....if you want to speak to other dealers then try contacting the dealer in chennai and get the quote....bargain a lot...

Just a small heads up to all you guys purchasing stuff from dealers in bangalore.
A few of the dealers browse through this forum (maybe thru aliases or whatever).
I know for certain that Decibel audio(wharfedale dealer) and audio planet do so.
So they may know in advance that you may bargain for the prices. IT could swing both ways, they may give u a better deal if u are undecided between two competitive brands and could hardsell a product if ur heart is set on one particular product.
Just an opinion, not an attack on anyone, and for you dealers whose name i have mentioned, no offence intended.
It is very good to see that dealers do look at 'market trends' , customers tastes, but we want you to participate openly and fully, like, SNV or Jochen(goolimangala) for instance.

Hey Saachi,

Thanks for the info. I've wondered a couple of times myself if the dealers themselves are members of the forum. And we do know that a few of them are too. Let's just hope they give us poor folks a better deal.

Good day.