Experience with a self-acclaimed audio God

Dare_Devil schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Dear DD From your first post on this subject, it looked as if you had only one interaction with P.If there were more then I guess you may have your own valid opinion.But does P=Pritvi?because if it doesn't, then everybody is wasting their time on the subject, as we are all chasing a ghost.The only real beneficiary is Prithvi as everybody on the forum seemingly likes him, and admires him, and respects him,great for the guy without even saying a word on the subject.Love top be in his commercial shoes. Regards Deaf I never mentioned that I had only one interaction with P. If you inferred that, you do have a coloured thought that's biased towards P. Whether P=Prithvi is for the forum members to decide. I guess people get the intent of my message and do not think this to be a waste of time (at least that's what I understand from the PMs I get). If you do think this to be a waste of your time, you are most welcome to be a mere spectator. No one forced you to read or respond at the first place. If you are so much in awe, admiration and respect of P and are inspired to be in his commercial shoes, you are most welcome to do so. And hope you wouldn't mind such posts either acclaiming you like P. By the way, it would be great if you could share your experience with P for justifying your enamour for P.

Dear DD
I do not know who this P gent is because I simply cannot assume who he is.Therefore I do not know if I have ever dealt with him.Hence sharing an experience is out of the question too.
Regarding personal mails ,that is fine ,but the fact remains on the forum,this Prithvi is is more liked than disliked assuming of course the two are the same, hence Prithvi is OK I guess.P I dont know him.
Regards Deaf

deaf schrieb:

Dear DD I do not know who this P gent is because I simply cannot assume who he is.Therefore I do not know if I have ever dealt with him.Hence sharing an experience is out of the question too. Regarding personal mails ,that is fine ,but the fact remains on the forum,this Prithvi is is more liked than disliked assuming of course the two are the same, hence Prithvi is OK I guess.P I dont know him. Regards Deaf

Someone somewhere is attempting to hail his image intact. I assume you understand what I say.
Assuming P=Prithvi (like others did), can you share your experience?
Can you also state explicitly that the consistency in (mis)behaviour that I have explained time and again (that you have blissfully ignored) is acceptable even if it were by the most liked (on the forum) P=Prithvi?
You seem to be forming an opinion on hearsay (if you aren't P); I have given my opinion based on my experience, not once but on innumerable instances.

By the way, thank you very much for helping in elevating the status of this post to "Hot". I guess this will catch attention of the people who would otherwise had ignored the post. I think it is better left to the forum members to form their respective opinions about liking/disliking towards P. But I am loving the debate, especially with you deaf.

Dare_Devil schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Dear DD I do not know who this P gent is because I simply cannot assume who he is.Therefore I do not know if I have ever dealt with him.Hence sharing an experience is out of the question too. Regarding personal mails ,that is fine ,but the fact remains on the forum,this Prithvi is is more liked than disliked assuming of course the two are the same, hence Prithvi is OK I guess.P I dont know him. Regards Deaf Someone somewhere is attempting to hail his image intact. I assume you understand what I say. Assuming P=Prithvi (like others did), can you share your experience? Can you also state explicitly that the consistency in (mis)behaviour that I have explained time and again (that you have blissfully ignored) is acceptable even if it were by the most liked (on the forum) P=Prithvi? You seem to be forming an opinion on hearsay (if you aren't P); I have given my opinion based on my experience, not once but on innumerable instances. By the way, thank you very much for helping in elevating the status of this post to "Hot". I guess this will catch attention of the people who would otherwise had ignored the post. I think it is better left to the forum members to form their respective opinions about liking/disliking towards P. But I am loving the debate, especially with you deaf.

Dear DD
I have not had any retail experience,as you have had with either P or Prithvi.Maybe you have had innumerable expeiences with this P person, but what amazes me is why did you go back to this character after the second bad experience.Infact most people would avoid a person after the first bad experience, but being the kind gent that you seem to be, after the second
sour deal, simply avoid the person.You going back to the person, innumerable times for innumerable instances to take place, seems strange more than anything else.
Secondly the forum members coming up in support of this Prithvi seems more than heresay I think, it is in print for me to read.
As for the HOT status of this post, you are welcome DD, but I really would like a thanks from this Prithvi guy as he is the chap who has become famous.Debate, anytime, especially on designing reference loudspeakers, methinks
Regards Deaf

deaf schrieb:

Dear DD I have not had any retail experience,as you have had with either P or Prithvi.Maybe you have had innumerable expeiences with this P person, but what amazes me is why did you go back to this character after the second bad experience.Infact most people would avoid a person after the first bad experience, but being the kind gent that you seem to be, after the second sour deal, simply avoid the person.You going back to the person, innumerable times for innumerable instances to take place, seems strange more than anything else.

Isn't your question quite contradicting your earlier question? First you mention that a person should not be judged by one instance and should be given second/more chances. And now you come back and ask me why I went to P again? Well, interesting. Consistency my dear friend, consistency. Consistency in misleading a customer; not just a bad day, but bad ATTITUDE. Now I am indeed avoiding P and helping others through this forum to avoid him too.

deaf schrieb:

Secondly the forum members coming up in support of this Prithvi seems more than heresay I think, it is in print for me to read.

First hand experience is what I had. I am yet to read your first hand experience. If what you have as print for you to read here in support of P is convincing, why does then my post, also as print for you to read, not sound convincing to you? Is it the coloured thought coming into play again?
By the way, camouflaging and supporting self is discounted. Same holds true for mustering support from friends who wear similar coloured glasses.

deaf schrieb:

As for the HOT status of this post, you are welcome DD, but I really would like a thanks from this Prithvi guy as he is the chap who has become famous.Debate, anytime, especially on designing reference loudspeakers, methinks Regards Deaf

Great. I think P and you alike are having a fabulous time in this forum, enjoying the limelight and craving for more. Amazing. Stay tuned for more. Ye Dil Maange more!!!!

Dear DD
I did mention you are a kind gent by going back the second
time.I said second chance not innumerable chances, so I am consistent on that front.
I think it is good to guide people on the forum regarding unpleasant people like this P.
I do not disbelieve your account, and haven't said anything of the sort.In fact I believed you and said give the guy a second chance, which in itself says I believe you.
There seem to be others who have quite the opposite opinion to yours regarding Prithvi, if he is P that is,I believe them too.There are more people on the forum who seem to like him than those who don't.Right?So if I will believe the larger numbers as common sense should dictate, what is wrong with that?
As for you, don't deal with the guy, warn the others as you wish,those who want to deal with him will do so regardless,and those who don't will have heeded your advice.Simple.
I have mentioned earlier I have no experience with P, so that I have already answered.As far as friends go, this Pritvi must be a really cool guy to have so many supporting friends who get mustered so quickly.Don't you think so?
I am having a fabulous time, but not enjoying the limelite as much as Prithvi is.Amazing, as you said, don't say a word and get famous.
Is Shahrukh Khan going to be signed up in place of Ben Affleck?Good move then, from Pepsi bottle to Billyclub
Regards Deaf

deaf schrieb:

Dear DD I did mention you are a kind gent by going back the second time.I said second chance not innumerable chances, so I am consistent on that front.

I almost guessed your response. Your version of consistency may be 2 chances and mine may be more.

deaf schrieb:

There seem to be others who have quite the opposite opinion to yours regarding Prithvi, if he is P that is,I believe them too.There are more people on the forum who seem to like him than those who don't.Right?So if I will believe the larger numbers as common sense should dictate, what is wrong with that?

Don't say more people on the forum; say more people among who have responded. Compare the number of participants in other postings to this one and you would know the number of participants. If majority of the forum members go ga ga over P, why are they silent? Why are they not willing to contradict me? I know very well that lots of folks are quiet only because their identity is no more a secret. And I also know the dealers and some other folks who do indeed suck up to P and are returning their courtesy to him.

deaf schrieb:

I have mentioned earlier I have no experience with P, so that I have already answered.As far as friends go, this Pritvi must be a really cool guy to have so many supporting friends who get mustered so quickly.Don't you think so?

Yes, I know the cool guys and hence this effort to unmask. All said and done, P will indeed be happy to have you as a friend with your willingness to die for him without even experiencing him first hand and just by reading the posts. On the other hand, even the die hard P supporters are seemingly quiet having given you the mantle. Carry on!

deaf schrieb:

I am having a fabulous time, but not enjoying the limelite as much as Prithvi is.Amazing, as you said, don't say a word and get famous. Is Shahrukh Khan going to be signed up in place of Ben Affleck?Good move then, from Pepsi bottle to Billyclub Regards Deaf

I am not sure about Shahrukh Khan's signing up in place of Ben Affleck, but I do know that both Pepsi and Billyclub without the contents in the bottle, have only one place - garbage dump. And that's what competition is all about to unfold right in from of our eyes; be it P or anyone masking him and talking the same language, without the substance in the bottle. Keep enjoying.

Dare_Devil schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Dear DD I did mention you are a kind gent by going back the second time.I said second chance not innumerable chances, so I am consistent on that front. I almost guessed your response. Your version of consistency may be 2 chances and mine may be more. deaf schrieb: There seem to be others who have quite the opposite opinion to yours regarding Prithvi, if he is P that is,I believe them too.There are more people on the forum who seem to like him than those who don't.Right?So if I will believe the larger numbers as common sense should dictate, what is wrong with that? Don't say more people on the forum; say more people among who have responded. Compare the number of participants in other postings to this one and you would know the number of participants. If majority of the forum members go ga ga over P, why are they silent? Why are they not willing to contradict me? I know very well that lots of folks are quiet only because their identity is no more a secret. And I also know the dealers and some other folks who do indeed suck up to P and are returning their courtesy to him. deaf schrieb: I have mentioned earlier I have no experience with P, so that I have already answered.As far as friends go, this Pritvi must be a really cool guy to have so many supporting friends who get mustered so quickly.Don't you think so? Yes, I know the cool guys and hence this effort to unmask. All said and done, P will indeed be happy to have you as a friend with your willingness to die for him without even experiencing him first hand and just by reading the posts. On the other hand, even the die hard P supporters are seemingly quiet having given you the mantle. Carry on! deaf schrieb: I am having a fabulous time, but not enjoying the limelite as much as Prithvi is.Amazing, as you said, don't say a word and get famous. Is Shahrukh Khan going to be signed up in place of Ben Affleck?Good move then, from Pepsi bottle to Billyclub Regards Deaf I am not sure about Shahrukh Khan's signing up in place of Ben Affleck, but I do know that both Pepsi and Billyclub without the contents in the bottle, have only one place - garbage dump. And that's what competition is all about to unfold right in from of our eyes; be it P or anyone masking him and talking the same language, without the substance in the bottle. Keep enjoying.

Dear DD
Relax dude.You really hate this P chap,and take it easy. I really don't know know who P is, and I am sure neither do a lot of forum members. So their not responding means they don't care about this conversation.
About the dudes who support Pritvi, they care and they are vocal in supporting him,notwithstanding how you look upon their relationship with him.Like I said, those who are comfortable with a dealer, will deal with him regardless,and those who don't, believe you more.Simple isn't it.
BTW Billyclub is DareDevil's weapon of choice,Ben Affleck played the role in the movie based on the Marvel Comic character.Did you know DareDevil is blind?Reminds me of someone else on the forum,don't you think?
Regards Deaf

Guys Guys ..this is now getting quite unnecessarily personal..

better to leave it as it is unless of course there are any new points to be added !

deaf schrieb:

Dear DD Relax dude.You really hate this P chap,and take it easy. I really don't know know who P is, and I am sure neither do a lot of forum members. So their not responding means they don't care about this conversation.

What makes you think I am not relaxed. I guess you are being irate to hear against P even if you don't know him and didn't have any experience with him. Isn't that ridiculous!!! You may be the right guy to solve world hunger. Great going, keep it up.
Whether people care about this conversation or not is evident from the number of times this has been viewed by the members.

deaf schrieb:

About the dudes who support Pritvi, they care and they are vocal in supporting him,notwithstanding how you look upon their relationship with him.Like I said, those who are comfortable with a dealer, will deal with him regardless,and those who don't, believe you more.Simple isn't it.

Yes, they care but why do you care so much without knowing him? Why are you so reluctant to share your experience with P assuming P = Prithvi? And what makes you so irate that you respond as if P = Prithvi = deaf???

deaf schrieb:

BTW Billyclub is DareDevil's weapon of choice,Ben Affleck played the role in the movie based on the Marvel Comic character.Did you know DareDevil is blind?Reminds me of someone else on the forum,don't you think? Regards Deaf

Is this a way to divert from the main course of discussion? Didn't quite get the link you are trying to establish.

Arj schrieb:

Guys Guys ..this is now getting quite unnecessarily personal.. better to leave it as it is unless of course there are any new points to be added !

Finally someone who makes maore sense than both of us .
Thanks Arj

deaf schrieb:

Finally someone who makes maore sense than both of us . Thanks Arj

I guess so. Else it was well on its way to get a legendary status of "Very Hot" if there was one.

Dear Dare_Devil,

You have my share of sympathies for your unfortunate experience/s with "P"

It is so strange but quite a few of my Commercial friends including myself had interesting experiences with "P" which I wish to bring out in the open.

Let me start with myself, over the last several months I am have been getting redirected e-mails from my principals from "P" (four pages was the last one !) where "P" seems to be boasting what a great set up he has in Bangalore & in Dubai (Dubai ?? that was news to me !!) and why my Principals shouldn't be dealing with my company at all & need to deal with him exclusively !

I started then making discrete investigations about "P" with all my Distributors friends and was surprised to find out they all had common experiences ! All of them said that initially "P" would promise them the moon about selling huge quantities in Bangalore & the great setup & connections he had. As time passed "P" demands started to increase and worse still he started to pit the very brands he was supposed to promote with other competing brands. He just would sell whatever he got his hands to irrespective to brand loyalty & what the customer wanted. There is nothing wrong in that per say, but when money in kind or in favours are taken by him to promote any particular brand from the Principals or Distributor he is expected to promote those particular brands....at least that is the ethical way of going about things.

Tell me DD, as a customer do you feel that whatever "P" has got on hand he would try & push ? Or is he loyal to any brands he was supposed to deal in ?? It would be interesting to hear a perspective from a customers point of view.

Just to think of a few, there is an Electrostatic speaker manufacturer of world class repute in Pune. All of us know that they manufacture world class speakers. Why even our very own distinguished forum member "Deaf" is so very appreciative of this company and all its creations. Yet if one does a search on this forum's posts you would find just a few months ago "P" ridiculed the same company....that is the reason they decided they had enough of his antics & put up their own showroom in Bangalore....though I don't know if it is there or not as of now.

Again there was another Distributor who deals with high end CD players...the one which one of our forum members wanted to sell, the mere mention of "P" gets him to roll his eyes and have him say "Gosh I think there is something physiologically wrong with "P" he makes it seem he can sell the world just to get demo stuff & freebies and then gives one excuse after another as to non performance, while maintaining that he is God's gift to mankind !"

Then again there is another distributor who distributes a very popular amplifier brand, which is openly discussed on this forum, even he says...actual words " When it come to P, I much rather trust a snake then him"

While I am deeply pained to write such things, just like customers I feel Distributors & Manufacturers should know what they are up against with Mr. P. and take precautionary measures at their discretion.

For me my solution is very simple early next year I am getting my principals over to Bangalore I am getting them to pay a visit to his "showroom" without notice ! For those who have visited P's showroom would know what I am talking about ! That should put an end to all this hot-air talk once in for all !! Oh yes we will allow him to sell stuff on a commission basis to test his theory of "humongous sales" in and around Bangalore !

Regards,

Junia.

P.S. I need to stress I am no self righteous guru.....I have made mistakes in the past but have been man enough to face it & go over and above what is normally expected to redeem my self. I hope "P" can change his ways and sincerely wish him the very best in all his endeavors as a Dealer in Bangalore.

Forum Members
Notwithstanding who P is..this sounds like a personal vendetta more than a forum discussion and should be stopped.
I dont care for personal vendettas on a forum like ours.
Rgds
Jeeves

Jeeves schrieb:

Forum Members Notwithstanding who P is..this sounds like a personal vendetta more than a forum discussion and should be stopped. I dont care for personal vendettas on a forum like ours. Rgds Jeeves

Hi Jeeves
I felt the same too,but cannot allow a person to be insulted without justification.
Thanks for standing up.
Regards Deaf

this thread is getting to be like Saurav Ganguly facing Short deliveries gainst Mc Grath. (

YOu wish it will never come up and while it is on you just vince and wish it just goes away ..hope it is that quick enough though

( I mean only the situation here and am not comparing people against any of the above characters..so please do not start on that one !)

That reminds me, our friend Bigears is missing from this forum for quite some time and so is Sub Boss..
Anyone heard from them ?

Looks like personal vendetta to me too. I wish the forum moderators would step in and close this thread. I do not understand why commercial members need to talk / discuss / justify their business model or tactics here.

square_wave schrieb:

Looks like personal vendetta to me too. I wish the forum moderators would step in and close this thread. I do not understand why commercial members need to talk / discuss / justify their business model or tactics here.

Dear Square
You are right.Though it may come as a surprise to you,the fact remains that this is not personal to me at all.I am not P, so basically on the personal front I couldn't care less.Thanks anyways.Wonder what this Prithvi chap has to say though,as he has achieved star status.
Regards Deaf

Just let it be guys. DD, if you don't like P, just don't go to him again! JSA, dude, cummmoonnn!!!

Jeeves schrieb:

Forum Members Notwithstanding who P is..this sounds like a personal vendetta more than a forum discussion and should be stopped. I dont care for personal vendettas on a forum like ours. Rgds Jeeves

Can you please clarify? This is sharing of experience by users with facts. I don't see any personal vendatta here. What sounds like a personal vendatta to you is what has actually happened to me and that's what I have expressed. And so have some other folks. If you don't care for discussion like this, solution is simple and lies with you rather than with the forum participants. Be a mere spectator or ignore.

deaf schrieb:

Hi Jeeves I felt the same too,but cannot allow a person to be insulted without justification. Thanks for standing up. Regards Deaf

Who is being insulted dude? I thought you said someone was on a fast path to glory even without saying a single word. Are insult and glory synonymous?

Arj schrieb:

this thread is getting to be like Saurav Ganguly facing Short deliveries gainst Mc Grath. ( YOu wish it will never come up and while it is on you just vince and wish it just goes away ..hope it is that quick enough though ( I mean only the situation here and am not comparing people against any of the above characters..so please do not start on that one !) That reminds me, our friend Bigears is missing from this forum for quite some time and so is Sub Boss.. Anyone heard from them ?

Correct. Ever wondered why Saurav Ganguly dances to the tune of Glenn McGrath's short deliveries? It is because he is unable to face the quality competition. If he were skillful enough, he wouldn't have problems negotiating them. That's what will be the fate of P when he starts facing quality competition. The choice would then be to either retire voluntarily or be gradually obliterated by the short deliveries from the competition.

square_wave schrieb:

Looks like personal vendetta to me too. I wish the forum moderators would step in and close this thread. I do not understand why commercial members need to talk / discuss / justify their business model or tactics here.

Can you give data/reasoning about your opinion? How does good experience sharing never look exaggerated and bad experience sharing seems like a personal vendatta?
By the way, who has asked the commercial members to talk/discuss/justify their business model and tactics if they didn't want to? I don't see a single instance where someone was coerced to share business model and tactics involuntarily. Why should freedom of expression (good/bad experience) be curbed by the moderators without valid reasons and only because few people do not like the thread? This forum, if I assume correctly, is not meant to please people. It is all about sharing of information irrespective the nature of experience of the users.

jsa_ind schrieb:

Tell me DD, as a customer do you feel that whatever "P" has got on hand he would try & push ? Or is he loyal to any brands he was supposed to deal in ?? It would be interesting to hear a perspective from a customers point of view.

Need I say more? I couldn't agree more with what you have stated and that was my primary disappointment; misleading customers with inconsistent advice and direction. Highly unethical and untrustworthy. That summarizes "P" for me.

deaf schrieb:

Dear Square You are right.Though it may come as a surprise to you,the fact remains that this is not personal to me at all.I am not P, so basically on the personal front I couldn't care less.Thanks anyways.Wonder what this Prithvi chap has to say though,as he has achieved star status. Regards Deaf

I thought you just said someone was unfairly insulted. Can you please clarify who?

Insult and star status; couldn't care less and ready to die for the person someone does not know. Does this quite gel? Not to me at least. Maybe some people have divine capabilities to read mind and nature of people even without meeting and knowing them.

This thread should be locked by the mods, its an absolute waste of bandwidth of the forum. Whatever DD and others had to say is already crystal.


Regards,

Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

This thread should be locked by the mods, its an absolute waste of bandwidth of the forum. Whatever DD and others had to say is already crystal. Regards, Satyam.

Shouldn't the thread rather be allowed its natural death. If you follow any thread in the forum, it ends naturally after discussion. How different is this one? Why is there a far cry to kill it by some people?
If it actually ends up as a waste of everyone's bandwidth, people will automatically cease to participate and it would die.
Like I mentioned earlier, no one is forced to view and participate in the threads that one is not interested in and considers a waste of time and can ignore it. My earnest suggestion to you would be the same if you fall in the category.

[quote="Dare_Devil"]
Like I mentioned earlier, no one is forced to view and participate in the threads that one is not interested in and considers a waste of time and can ignore it. /quote]

True..Fully agree and will comply

Actually it is quite philosophical

Hi Folks,
This is an old and somewhat rancid thread, but there is one important point that has been lost in the discussion on poor P. That is to say prices. I do believe that if superior audio has to sell, it has to be reasonably priced and in reach of a middle class person. Very high prices means very few people, and that is sad, because good hifi moderately priced is much better than the mass market boom boxes. India can never have a big high end market, but it can have a 'quality' market. Most filthy rich people have no patience to savour the subtle joys of audio refinement. Their pleasures tend to be cruder (Cars, bikes, diamonds, and designer toilets). Quality hifi is the acquired sophistication of an aesthete, and most of us a are ordinary people who cant go for the best. It is thousands that we can play with, not with lakhs.

I had to choose recently between a rega and project turntable. The rega was coming to 40,000 and a bit more. The project xpression came in half that price. If the price margin had been say five thousand,I would have probably gone for the P2. But at twice the cost, No Way. Most of us here are young, and some who are older. All of us like equipment, but behind that is a love for music. A "good" dealer will try and find something that is fantastic at your price level, rather than impress you with gear that you are unlikely to buy in this birth.
Go for what you can get, dont go for the moon. It more fun that way.

Purnendu


T

True Purnendu, very good point.

prices are high..maybe due to Dealer Margins or due to duties (Even in Europe most American stuff are at more or less the same cost as you get in India !).

One way is to look for higher quality stuff you can get by local manufacturers.

From a dealers point of view (As in most things marketing/Economics) he can go for High Margins Low sales or Low margins/High Sales. he is not here to do service for the audiophile community but to make a well run business. In Low business Areas, manufacturers themselves might want to price something higher

What he choses depends on the business model he plans to adopt and it is his problem Consumers can only can only respond by either giving him business or not.

If anyone thinks a Price is too much, this is the place to say it so that everyone knows it and you also get relative references as to if it is worth it or not.

it only gets dirty when instead of the problem, people point on individuals and hence the focus, as you have very rightly pointed out, gets lost and the thread actually gets to be an Eyesore

Arj schrieb:

True Purnendu, very good point. prices are high..maybe due to Dealer Margins or due to duties (Even in Europe most American stuff are at more or less the same cost as you get in India !). One way is to look for higher quality stuff you can get by local manufacturers. From a dealers point of view (As in most things marketing/Economics) he can go for High Margins Low sales or Low margins/High Sales. he is not here to do service for the audiophile community but to make a well run business. In Low business Areas, manufacturers themselves might want to price something higher What he choses depends on the business model he plans to adopt and it is his problem Consumers can only can only respond by either giving him business or not. If anyone thinks a Price is too much, this is the place to say it so that everyone knows it and you also get relative references as to if it is worth it or not. it only gets dirty when instead of the problem, people point on individuals and hence the focus, as you have very rightly pointed out, gets lost and the thread actually gets to be an Eyesore :D

Same thoughts here……………..
Stick to the points and say your thing and nobody will get riled………

Arj schrieb:

it only gets dirty when instead of the problem, people point on individuals and hence the focus, as you have very rightly pointed out, gets lost and the thread actually gets to be an Eyesore :D

Great points by Purnendu and very rational too. What if the problem is created by an individual? It is difficult to generalise in that case. In my original post, I had mentioned about the problems with context to the individual. Down the road, the message got diluted with folks perceiving as a personal Vendetta and crying hoarse for killing the thread.

let me give an example...

if u wanna meet a ceo of a big software company then u need to take an appointment for that and if you waste his time just like that he will get vexed and then he scolds u. Like for the people who will spend about 3 hrs a day then its hard i too had a similar experience but i found it... its like they dont have time and if they are making money with that then they get vexed.. u have to understand this...

cheers,
Sandeep