Audition Experience: Help

Autor

Beitrag

purnendu
Stammgast

#1 erstellt: 02. Mai 2011, 18:33

Hi Folks,
Courtesy Sridhar and ARN Systems I have been through two rounds of auditioning an amplifier for my Proac tablettes, comprisng the Ayon Orion and the Leben 300xs. Source being the Ayon cd2. Music being one assorted classical cd and a Mingus. The first sitting lasted about 3 hours about three weeks ago and the second a more extended sitting last week end.My impressions are as as follows.

In the first round I listened to the Leben first and enjoyed it very much. I liked the string tone which was rich and saturated with a lot of colour. I found the amp to be very emotionally involving. There was no problem with the drive, not just in volume but in producing a reasonably full bodied sound.I did notice however some high frequency excess in classical. Then I heard the ayon and liked it very much too. More authoritative and much more clean. It seemed like a more 'honest' presentation. Then I went back to the Leben and found that I preferred its decidedly more romantic interpretation.

Thereafter I agonized over the two amps through the week, checked out all the material on the NET and found that the Leben Combo had a lot of supporters: Match made in Heaven etc. The Orion too gets a lot of praise, but its sound is considered to be closer to SS than to Tubes. Any how to make up my mind I sought out another appointment.

This time round I started with the Ayon in triode mode and the same music. I enjoyed myself enormously, for over an hour. Lots of detail, some imaging, and firm grip over the speakers. At loud volumes it did get a little hard, but for the most part I would call it a very mature, balanced and composed performer. Then I switched to the Leben, and what do I find? The sound is soft and unfocused, like an image with a chiarusco effect. Not offensive mind you, but I am not able to settle down and after about half an hour go back to the Ayon, this time in Pentode mode. The sound gets more powerful and firmed up, and I let it play loud through some Bruckner. Time and again I listen to a Mozart piano concerto and it produces not just a big piano but is also quite sweet. Go back to triode after an hour and find that it gets warmer, but unlike the Leben never sentimental.

Where do I go from here. This will be a long term buy. The Leben has nice looks and a super headphone. Will it be a better buy in the long run, more forgiving, and emotionally involving. Will I enjoy the clean cut and balanced Ayon over the long term? Given that I rarely listen to sentimental music I think its the Ayon that the right choice. Have I missed out on something? Forum members who have the Leben might help me see what they find in this amp that has made it such a great combo with proac speakers.
I'd love to go for the Leben, for it has super WAF and yes its fashionable. But the head says Ayon.

The reason why I am still undecided is that some 20 years ago I had a similar choice to make between the Cyrus One which was fast, clean and detailed and the Musical Fidelity A1 which was warm, with much more body, and offering a decided interpretation of the music. I chose the Cyrus and lived to regret it after the first few years, it was detailed but tiring, sounded metallic and over bright. The AI would have been a much more live-able long term choice.I wonder if I am making the same mistake here again.

The Ayon is only a bit cheaper so money is not the real issue. Its substantial and solid. Its macho, so was the Cyrus in its own small scale way. The Leben has flashy looks and does not ooze the same sense of solidity in construction etc. Sridhar however says that its very well built. To be frank all the hype around the Leben has made me think that its the hype that attracts me. It could however be that the Leben has other longer term qualities which are not coming through on this audition. Folks who have long term listening experience on these amps could perhaps chip in with some help in decision making.

Help!

Purnendu

Arj
Inventar

#2 erstellt: 03. Mai 2011, 02:13

hey purnendu, its very difficult to make this decision for you..but always go with the heart. the head is only for the budget !
i can speak about the Leben, and had bought it before all this hype after almost 6 mnths of study and discussions with people. since it was not available with ARN then, i had to make do with a short listen with another setup and then decide.
One thing i have found with the CS600 is its sound changes with the tubes and usually the stock tubes are not great and are only at the 75% of the sound..especially the stock Sovteks which i can never go back after having heard other tubes.(Although sounded great before the change

)
I have a CS600 and i first changed the stock sovtek 6l6gc's to a winged C ad the sound was a leap forward in clarity and transparency..and on the recommendation of Jeff day moved to a Russian reflecter 6N3C which took it to another level !
for the 300 something like the Winged C or the Mullard EL84 would just sound it different.
also when you heard it with the proacs, did you use the 8 ohm tap or the 4 ohm tap ?
the Ayon has its own strengths and has a drive which is in the SS realm. I was very impressed with its clean drive and the control it has on speakers.

Do you know Asit in calcutta ? he may know a lot more about tubes on a C300 and could help with some more info if you seek it.

Krish
Stammgast

#3 erstellt: 03. Mai 2011, 05:46

Hey Purnendu,
Tough one.

Both amps are cracker.Either way you will not regret the decision that you will make.

Go with the Ayon. While it is 'more clean', it's hardly cold or sterile.

Here is the other reason to go with the Ayon - "Given that I rarely listen to sentimental music I think its the Ayon that the right choice"

Having said that I think you will be happy with the Leben as well.

Best,
K

P.S - do let us know what finally decide on

jai1611
Neuling

#4 erstellt: 03. Mai 2011, 11:39

Purnendu, any particular reason for focusing on these two amps ? If neither one of them has entirely convinved you, I'd suggest looking at other options.

purnendu
Stammgast

#5 erstellt: 03. Mai 2011, 15:37

Thanks for the responses.
Will wait for a few days before I make any decisions.
At the the moment it still seems like the Ayon, but I will probably give the Leben one more listen. This time with music that is more familiar. Bottom line is that either of these two amps will be an upgrade.

Lets see.
Purnendu

abhi.pani
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 04. Mai 2011, 05:59

Purunendu, have you considered Rethm amps ?

Shahrukh
Inventar

#7 erstellt: 04. Mai 2011, 09:40

I'd really like to know more about Rethm Amps.

bombaywalla
Stammgast

#8 erstellt: 04. Mai 2011, 15:54

In the first round I listened to the Leben first and enjoyed it very much. I liked the string tone which was rich and saturated with a lot of colour. I found the amp to be very emotionally involving.

Then I switched to the Leben, and what do I find? The sound is soft and unfocused, like an image with a chiarusco effect. Not offensive mind you, but I am not able to settle down ......

So, Purnendu, the question is: how can the Leben, which was so sentimental in round #1, suddenly become unfocused in round #2?
Did you make any effort to understand why the Leben was unfocused in round #2?? Did Sridhar change the setup between round #1 & #2??
OR, was the Leben unfocused in round #1 as well but you did not notice that & only concentrated on its sonic signature??
I think many here will agree that if the amp is unfocused it is unlikely to sound sentimental.

Time and again I listen to a Mozart piano concerto and it produces not just a big piano but is also quite sweet. Go back to triode after an hour and find that it gets warmer, but unlike the Leben never sentimental.

So, in round #2, despite the Leben becoming unfocused, you still have fond memories of its sound from round #1???

And, you are using this info re. the Leben from round #1 to have some/a lot of weight in your decision???

What it seems to me is that your round #2 does not seem to have the Leben working under the same conditions as round #1.

Manek
Inventar

#9 erstellt: 05. Mai 2011, 08:40

Here is what I would do sir....

Listening to music is a very emotional and involving experience for me. The amp that would bring out that emotion in the recordings would be it.

Regards

Manek

purnendu
Stammgast

#10 erstellt: 08. Mai 2011, 12:22

Hi Folks,
T hanks for the feedback. What I perhaps need to do is listen to the Leben again for a longer time and see how it goes although there is no way to assess long term listening satisfaction. a state of Confusion is not such a bad thing for it can make you consider choices in a more thoughtful way. As of now the pluses and minuses as such are

Leben:
Plus- Compact size, looks, full featured amp, headphones, intriguing sound signature.
Minus-Flashy, no pre-out, low power, some might say coloured sound.

Ayon:
Plus- Solid build, clean and powerful presentation,can drive wider range of speakers, pre-out
Minus- Somewhat Unexciting

Purnendu

Manek
Inventar

#11 erstellt: 08. Mai 2011, 14:48

You may need to look at a 3rd option.
That may work to help you decide.

square_wave
Inventar

#12 erstellt: 10. Mai 2011, 07:35

Have you considered the Sugden masterclass IA4 ?

[Beitrag von square_wave am 10. Mai 2011, 07:37 bearbeitet]

bhagwan69
Inventar

#13 erstellt: 17. Mai 2011, 02:12

square_wave schrieb:

Have you considered the Sugden masterclass IA4 ?

Are these available ?
Where can they be 'heard' ?
Is BMC there in India ?
May be an option to consider...
However, I love Proac with Tubes - they have always sounded great with Tubes to my ears...Specially those that are made in Italy - however an audition may not be possible...

Arj
Inventar

#14 erstellt: 19. Mai 2011, 08:24

bhagwan69 schrieb:

square_wave schrieb:

Have you considered the Sugden masterclass IA4 ?

Are these available ?
Where can they be 'heard' ?
Is BMC there in India ?May be an option to consider...
However, I love Proac with Tubes - they have always sounded great with Tubes to my ears...Specially those that are made in Italy - however an audition may not be possible...

I remember Jochen posting about BMC some months back. He was, I believe planning on getting it to india.

[Beitrag von Arj am 19. Mai 2011, 08:28 bearbeitet]

square_wave
Inventar

#15 erstellt: 19. Mai 2011, 09:01

@Bhagwan,

I am not sure about the sugden's availability in India. I hear a lot of good things about the masterclass models though.

BMC is very interesting. Jochen wanted to bring them to India. The C1 amp looks very interesting.

http://www.bmc-audio.de/en/bmc-amplifier.asp

Shahrukh
Inventar

#16 erstellt: 19. Mai 2011, 14:05

I think SKS Traders in Calcutta are distributing Sugden.

purnendu
Stammgast

#17 erstellt: 21. Mai 2011, 18:01

Hi folks,
Finally went for the Leben 300xs. Many reasons, some acoustic and some situational (size). While the Ayon had a lot more body to it, the strings are much much more natural in the Leben. Have been listening for a while and am quite happy. Many thanks to ARN for making it an enjoyable purchasing experience.
Purnendu

Manek
Inventar

#18 erstellt: 22. Mai 2011, 10:37

Good choice,

Congratulations !

Manek

purnendu
Stammgast

#19 erstellt: 22. Mai 2011, 15:52

Thanks Manek,
This one is for keeps.
Purnendu

Arj
Inventar

#20 erstellt: 22. Mai 2011, 16:11

congrats Purnendu ! its an amp which will grow with your tastes and any future system.

i have found power cables to make very little difference with this amp in the future you can think of some tube rolling ..but you can take your time with that.

Manek
Inventar

#21 erstellt: 23. Mai 2011, 03:47

Yes, I do believe Arj you have done some rolling, perhaps you can let purnendu know what worked best for you.

Manek

Krish
Stammgast

#22 erstellt: 23. Mai 2011, 04:40

purnendu schrieb:

Go to your bosom: Knock there, and ask your heart what it doth know.
-- William Shakespeare

Congratulations. Enjoy the music

Arj
Inventar

#23 erstellt: 23. Mai 2011, 05:26

Manek schrieb:

Yes, I do believe Arj you have done some rolling, perhaps you can let purnendu know what worked best for you.

Manek

manek, mine is a CS600 which uses 6l6GCs/EL34s while the c300 used EL84s.
from the discussions i have had with some other300 owners, JJ is the best VFM and the Golden lion is what brings the most sound impact.

The stock sovteks in the CS300 are also very good and need not really be tampred with unless the "Keeda" gets to you

...and it always does.

for the powerchord, a braided Finolex with good connectors works well with most systems, unless your system is capable of really deep bass (it does make low bass diffuse in most systems)
i believe it will go well with the Proacs as speakers.

Manek
Inventar