Visit to Junia's place

Oh my Goodness...now people will think I am another A. . !
who wants people to come to buy stuff from me, by drumming up support !

Hey I don't do NAD & Grado & Dynaudio ...and neither I have ghost written any stuff nor I have paid anyone !!

Neutral please save my sorry bu.. by clarifying the same !!!

Junia wrote :

Oh my Goodness...now people will think I am another A. . ! who wants people to come to buy stuff from me, by drumming up support !

Junia you don't need to give this clarifications we know u r not into this kinda cheap marketing

I'm real sorry Junia! Didn't expect to offend anyone
I really like to listen to great stuff (especially stuff that I can't afford
I was just grateful to Junia for giving me a chance to experience real high-end at his place.

All I would say to those who think that this is drumming up support is go test it for yourself. Trust your ears only. Also note that I listen to sober slow music. There is no guarantee that this equipment will sound good on all kinds of music. I explicitly mentioned the genres I auditioned it on.

I plan to visit Observer's place sometime this week. Do tell me whether you will appreciate my feedback on his equipment. I feel that this sharing would benefit other forum members. Tell me if I am wrong.

Neutral wrote :

I plan to visit Observer's place sometime this week. Do tell me whether you will appreciate my feedback on his equipment. I feel that this sharing would benefit other forum members. Tell me if I am wrong.

It's great that forum members visit each other and share opinions...

cheers




Neutral this is for you :

Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink, I feel ashamed.

Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery
and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they
might be out of work. Then their hopes and dreams would be shattered.
Then I say to myself, "It is better that I drink this beer and let
their dreams come true, than to be selfish and worry about my liver."
-- Jack Handy


I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the
morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.
--Frank Sinatra


An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with
his fools.
--Ernest Hemingway


24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence?
--Stephen Wright

When we drink, we get drunk.
When we get drunk, we fall asleep.
When we fall asleep, we commit no sin.
When we commit no sin, we go to heaven.
Sooooo, let's all get drunk and go to heaven!
-- Brian O'Rourke


Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
--Benjamin Franklin




When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. (This is THE
Best you would ever get)
--Henny Youngman

Hey SUB... dunno how its related to this thread, but here's one you forgot.. the real BEST -
Reality is an illusion cuased by lack of alchohol - Anon

Hi All,

Thank you for clearing my name !

Yes I am quite particular not be associated with any blatant marketing schemes on this forum.

If we could develop this forum as a place to hang out without any sale's pressures, product hypes and cartels it really would be very nice.

Like previously mentioned, this forum is fast developing into a meeting place where Indian newbie's run to for help & guidance. It is virtually a crime to exploit their innocence for some cheap gain.

Thanks again,

Regards,

Junia

ravi wrote :

Hey SUB... dunno how its related to this thread, but here's one you forgot.. the real BEST - Reality is an illusion cuased by lack of alchohol - Anon

ya thats true but I had to chop off 90% of the content by editing most of the stuff....

anyways

22.06.2005.

Hi !

Any chance of auditioning the Dynaudio Evidence MASTER ?
It would make very interesting listening.......Not to mention all the gear that goes with it !! Except the power amplifier; sorry for that [please do excuse me - I have never been a great fan of Mr. Peter Thomson's designs - they look great - but sound,,,, let me reserve my comments;]

Any other forum members use any 'High End' gear in Bombay that can be auditioned ?

I am tired of all the NAD + PSB [Alpha Series] + B & W [600 series] + Mc Cormack + Jamo + Wharfdale etc.

802 D I heard over the week end [will write about it later]

Also had an opportunity to go and audition [Sunday] the Manger 109 [book shelf] + Gamut electronics [CD + Pre + Power] - this too I shall comment on at a later date. But the set up has come a long way [from its first display @ The AV MAX Show @ Regent {Land's End Hotel}].

Also did a bit of listening on Merlin's being driven by Jadis power amplifier & Wadia 861 cd player. vdH power cables & Wireworld Super Eclipse 5's were the interconnects]

Hence, this week was a good week.

Heard 3 set ups.

All were differet - all had a 'flavour' but made interesting listening.

Just to drift a bit - has anyone listened to any music from Kari Bremnes ? She is from Norway.

More later......

Bhahwan69

bhagwan69 schrieb:

22.06.2005. Just to drift a bit - has anyone listened to any music from Kari Bremnes ? She is from Norway. More later...... Bhahwan69

have one of her albums "Gate Ved Gate". nice voice, and the music is very different..although could not understand the words and found it very difficult to place.
Celtic-Jazz ?
that reminds me that I have to listen to it again

Bhagwan,
Did you audition the Mangers at Marbin Coolah's place ?

What did you think of them ?

K

Arj schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: 22.06.2005. Just to drift a bit - has anyone listened to any music from Kari Bremnes ? She is from Norway. More later...... Bhahwan69 have one of her albums "Gate Ved Gate". nice voice, and the music is very different..although could not understand the words and found it very difficult to place. Celtic-Jazz ? that reminds me that I have to listen to it again ;)

I love celtic music..
BTW anyone tried Edith Piaf..
She was from France from the 1930-40's

[quote="Krish"]Bhagwan,
Did you audition the Mangers at Marbin Coolah's place ?

What did you think of them ?

K[/quote]

22.06.2005.

No ! I did not listen to the 109's at Marbin's place;
God knows if he has any place anymore, if he still does have it, I doubt if he has a pair on demo.

I auditioned it at his clients place. Basically I have heard the Manger's at Daniela's place in Germany in 2003 & then here at the Audio Show [ 2 of them] & also at La Kozy.
I have heard 3 of their models - 109 - 103/3 & Swing. The 107 is yet to be heard by me.

I would say that the Manger's are a 'aquired taste'.

Have you heard them ? What do you feel ?

The cables were Gamut interconnects & Transparent Music Wave Plus bi-wire speaker cable.

Bhagwan69

Dear Mazher

Well I should be getting the speakers from Bradenton to Bangalore, you are most welcome to audition the same at my place.

You have got your fact's wrong on Plinius ! Peter does not design Plinius, Gary does.

I don't blame you for not liking the Plinus amplifiers, I guess you must be one of those rare cases which feel differently. After all music is subjective and other influences could also affect the perceived notion of what is likeable & what is not.

I have heard the Evidences on a varity of equipment and feel that the final combination what I have purchased is the best combination under a US$ 250,000 budget....though as I have mentioned before I prefer my trusted Archos & HD 600's any day.

Regards,

Junia.

[quote]

'I have heard the Evidences on a varity of equipment and feel that the final combination what I have purchased is the best combination'

I am sure you must have [auditioned the Dynes with a lot of other electronics]. Could you be so kind so as to share the names [brands / model numbers] of those electronics manufacturers ? I would love to know what it is in the Plinius you found that was 'lacking' in the others.......Just a thought; I do hope you take it in the right spirit ! I am just a bit curious.

I am sure that the Evidence Master is a great speaker - never heard it - but have listened to its smaller siblings and have great respect for Mr. Thorop's designs & Mr. Einholz's [forgive my spellings - these names are rather tongue twisters] 'vision of sound'.

However, I stay in Bombay.
If the speaker's come to Bangalore - it seems a biy difficult for me to hear it there.

I do hope to be attending the Taiwan High End show in Taipei - Hotel Agora GArden - next month - actually August 05th to 09th. Maybe Mr. Robert Hagemann and the Taiwan distributor for Dynaudio do put up a half descent set up. Then may be I shall get a chance to hear it; Keeping my fingers crossed.

Just to talk a bit about Head Phones - I am sure you like the Senhisser HD-600's. But if I may suggest - you should try the Audio Technica ATH M-40fs.
I was a senhisser listener, but I found the Bayer Dynamics & Audio Technica both to be rather nice headphones. Just give them a try. Also good price to performance !!!
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/7c784888146c212e/index.html

Regards,

Bhagwan69

Bhagwan69,
Nope,I'm afraid that i have not auditioned the Mangers long enough to be able to form an opinion.The only time that I heard them was at the A/V show a couple of years back where Cushru was 'demoing' them with a NAD silverline set up.

Unfortunately, while Marbin and I have spoken often about them, he has never had a pair readily available for a demo.

Yes I'm aware that the Manger transducer has a certain sound.How would you describe them?

K

Krish schrieb:

Bhagwan69, Yes I'm aware that the Manger transducer has a certain sound.How would you describe them? K

Hi Krish,

When I heard the Zerobox 109 I felt the midrange was phenomenal or rather just absolutely natural, not spectacular, not detailed not anything just plain NATRUAL, but the top end is something I was confused about.

Though I believe the setup has changed from the last time I heard it for the better, so I intrigued myself as how it sounds now.

Regards,
Satyam.

Hi Krish !

The 'Manger 109 - basic' is in stock & on demo at La KOzy.
Just call KJ Audio on 23697001/2, take an appointment and drop by. You can evaluate the product for yourself.
I guess he drives them [Manger's] with Gamut Electronics.

I have heard the Mangers on several occasions. Abroad & in India. I have hated it abroad. In India, I have had mixed experiances. At the AV Max show that you talk about - I did not like them. The next AV Max show - 103 /3 I liked. The 109 - SE in La Kozy's clients place, I liked very much.

So it is a difficult call. It plays classical well [good for me]. Jazz vocal is good too.

Playes rock - very poorly. Never tried Indian CLassical on it. Nor did I try any world / fusion on it.

Over All - 7/10 product.

Bhagwan69

Dear Mazher,

I would be doing grave injustice, if I were to say that I preferred Plinius over X Y Z brand because Plinius was more warm, had a better soundstage, better timbre etc..... At those prices the difference is razor thin. More over my (loudness) Fletcher Munson Curves (http://richardbrice.net/fletcher_munson.htm) wouldn't be the same as say, yours. The same is with Pitch & Tone is again different with different individuals. So in a nut shell "One man's food could be another man poison !"

What I can say that I just love the Plinius sound....much the same as you would love the sound of another amplifier !

Unfortunately in Bombay I am yet to find a house that can have a 20 X 30 feet room, hence I am constrained to keep it at my place in Bangalore. Hey Bangalore is closer then Taiwan !

The next time I am in Singapore I will check out the Bayer Dynamics & Audio Technica. Do you know if they are low or high impedance headphones ?

Regards,

Junia.

jsa_ind schrieb:

Dear Mazher, I would be doing grave injustice, if I were to say that I preferred Plinius over X Y Z brand because Plinius was more warm, had a better soundstage, better timbre etc..... At those prices the difference is razor thin. More over my (loudness) Fletcher Munson Curves (http://richardbrice.net/fletcher_munson.htm) wouldn't be the same as say, yours. The same is with Pitch & Tone is again different with different individuals. So in a nut shell "One man's food could be another man poison !" What I can say that I just love the Plinius sound....much the same as you would love the sound of another amplifier ! Unfortunately in Bombay I am yet to find a house that can have a 20 X 30 feet room, hence I am constrained to keep it at my place in Bangalore. Hey Bangalore is closer then Taiwan ! The next time I am in Singapore I will check out the Bayer Dynamics & Audio Technica. Do you know if they are low or high impedance headphones ? Regards, Junia.

Hi Junia,

I guess I agree with your response to a certain extent to bhagwans question, but I'm still highly intrigued as to at that price point too what other equipment you auditioned before taking the plunge and deciding what you like.

I would like also know, if you don’t mind the music preference's you have?, and please describe the sound of your setup, the room size, room treatments if any.. Also I'm waiting impatiently for your setup pictures.

Warm Regards,
Satyam

Dear Satyam,

Okay I will respond, as long as I am not drawn into the merits of one piece of the equipment over the other. Also I shouldn't be thought off trumping up the gear I have or advocating the sale of any gear.

I believe at those prices everything become very subjective as to good & not so good, as the specifications of all are very impressive.

The next post would be more of an technical essay. I shall try to be as lucid as possible and any questions or debate on the technicalities are more then welcome. I thrive on such issues...apart from sharing the dark & dirty secrets of the audio industry

As to seeing the equipment, you could see & hear to your hearts content when I move it to Bangalore.

Regards,

Junia.

Hi All,

On Satyam's request I am writing this post & several others to follow. However I would request these posts, not to be misconstrued in any way.

This is not about putting down or elevating any pieces of equipment or blowing my own trumpet. Additionally after the equipment met the basic specifications, a lot of my selection was subjective & heavily dependent on my listening environment....there is literally millions of permutations & combinations and the setup I have, is no way the best or most perfect setup.

Having said that let me being by giving you the way I went about things:

I first determined the Standing Frequency of my room.

In any room, soundwaves will bounce back and forth several times between opposite room boundaries before dying out...often called sound decay. At most frequencies, the decay is rapid, but when a sound's wavelength is precisely twice that of a room dimension, compressions and rarefactions ("Compressions are regions of high air pressure while Rarefactions are regions of low air pressure) occur simultaneously at opposite boundary surfaces (walls), reinforcing the wave from both directions and creating a resonant condition. This is called a Standing Wave, because the zones of compression and rarefaction in the room are stationary during the resonant period. (Of course, the soundwaves themselves aren't stationary: they are continually bouncing back and forth between opposite walls.)

The reflecting soundwaves reinforce one another at the boundaries and produce a pressure dip in the middle of the room. Both these effects can be minimized by the below mentioned procedure.

Like other resonant conditions, Standing Waves produce a fundamental tone (the lowest-frequency resonance the space will support) and a series of harmonics at one-octave intervals. If the fundamental is at 20Hz, there will be other, progressively weaker ones at 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 160Hz, and so on. Each of these harmonics causes a frequency-response peak in the room, with a dip midway between each adjacent pair. .

Because a rectangular room has three dimensions (length, width, and height), it will exhibit three sets of standing waves. And if any two sets of these occur at the same frequencies, they will reinforce one another and worsen the room's frequency-response irregularities. The worst case is when all three room dimensions are the same, at which time the lower-range resonance's can become severe enough to cause pronounced hangover at those frequencies.

Since in practice we can't get rid of the resonance's, the next best thing is to stagger the resonant frequencies so that the response irregularities are as widely and as regularly spaced as possible.

Getting into absolute technicalities is out of the scope of this post, though I would be happy to get into the same in private conversations. The likes, of how to determine standing waves, the equipment used, the Golden Room Formula etc....

For those who want to skip the technical dope here is a simple way of going about things....

According to whatever little experience I have garnered, the best place to position a pair of loudspeakers is one-third of the way out into the room along each of the two diagonals. To achieve this, you may divide the floor length dimension into "thirds" as this excites low-frequency standing waves to the smallest extent. Mark that point, along the floor trace two diagonals, which intersect at the center of the room. Note the point where the diagonal intersects the "thirds" you may place the center point of the "speaker floor footprint" on this intersection and then toe-in gradually until everything snaps into place.....you will know what I mean of "snapping in when you begin to ever so slightly toe in the speakers in. You will find a three dimensional image emerging in front of you irrespective of what speakers you are using....depending on what the speaker designer had it mind while designing your speaker, you will find yourself siting anywhere from the first row to the last row while the music is being performed. If you had a choice, you may keep the center points of the speakers at least two meters apart & listen to. Between the loudspeakers the distance should be slightly less between the listening area and the speakers. However between the diagonal placement & the 2 meter spacing I prefer to go for the diagonal arrangement if I have to choose between the two. It is also recommended to be sitting at the ear level of the tweeter while the optimum positioning is going on. Ideally there should be one listener & another positioning the speaker then everything falls in place.

Do let me know if you have any questions on the above...I would be happy to answer them. Also if you are in disagreement to the above, please post the same, we could have a healthy debate or two.

After the queries/clarifications/debates on "Speaker Positioning is complete" we can get into other topics as suggested by Satyam like room sizes ( mine & how to optimize yours) sound treatments & their positioning ( mine & how you could build / develop yours at a fraction of the price), equipment ( mine & how you could get the best out of yours)..etc....

In general I would humbly submit these posts are not about how good the equipment is, what I have, but how after having a benchmark, how close I came to achieve the same, at a fraction of the cost...something which may or may not be of interest to you all.

Regards,

Junia

Hi All,

Are there any question or clarifications as to my last post.

I wanted to continue, if it is all right for you all....

Regards,

Junia.

please continue Junia..
Very educating to say the least..

Dear Benkenobi,

Okay I will will steping up the tech stuff a notch or two....again questions/debates/clarifications are more than welcome by all.

Regards,

Junia.

Junia, brilliant analysis. How did you derive the 1/3rd speaker positioning across diagonals, from your standing wave analysis of your room? Or was it purely empirical? What effects did you observe when the positioning is moved away from 1/3rd?

Dear Ravi,

The 1/3 & Diagonal, concept is based on, Allen R Groh in-depth paper on Standing Waves where he has mathematically proven the same.

Details of which may be found in the AES Publication of Volume 22 Number 10 pages 795 to 799 in the December 1974 edition.

I have empirically verified the same with the Mlssa & others could verify the same practically through the Sitting Duck software by Delaware Acoustics.

When you move the speakers away, either the bass becomes boomy or you lose bass..........if that is what I can depict through words. The best way, is to try it & hear for yourself....the impact is pretty dramatic to good ears.

I am greatly encouraged that folks like you & Benks have got a genuine interest in technical stuff & marry the technical with the practical....rather they only being one sided.

I plan to further the 1/3 application sometime today.

Regards,

Junia.

go ahead junia, I'm all ears....
manek.

Hi All,

So far we have discussed Standing Waves & techniques how to reduce them considerably:

The recaps are:

Placing the center-point of the foot print of your loudspeaker at the point where the diagonals across the longest part of the floor interests the third part of the length of the room. Assuming that you have divided the length of the floor plan, into three equal sections.

Ensuring that the speakers are at least two meters apart and the listening position to be, slightly less then the distance between both speakers.

Toeing in the speaker until a solid three dimensional image appears before you.

If the first two recommendations are not possible simultaneously, then precedence needed to be given to the 1/3rd speaker positioning across the diagonals, over ensuring that the speakers are at least two meters apart. The speakers however have to be placed as close to the 2 meter distance as possible. If the distance between the speakers are too much, the image may leave an "Acoustic hole" in the middle. If the two speakers are too close the stereo three dimensional image will not seem realistic.

For the absolute purists and who can build a listening room for them selves here is the dream room:

The Golden Room Formula, states that if "X" is the smallest dimension (length or breath or height), the second-largest room dimension should be "1.25 X", and the largest dimension should be "1.6 X." to get a perfect 10

If you could have a room based on the above formula, you would find that the third of the length of the floor plan, will intersect with the third of the breath of the floor plan on the diagonal. If you can so regulate the height of the room so as to ensure that "X" (smallest dimension) works out to have the loudspeakers at least two meters apart...CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE THE MOST PERFECT LISTENING ROOM IN THE WORLD....WITH ZERO STANDING WAVES !!

For less mortals like me I strive to get to as close as possible to the ideal room, using the above equations...at best it is a compromise.

However I reached a perfect room status by determining the fundamental standing wave, by feeding test tone sweeps, single frequency test tones &, measurments using an SPL meter. After using White Noise & Pink Noise played though the speakers and taking a Mlssa reading off an ACO Pacific microphone . (BTW White noise is a sound that contains every frequency within the range of human hearing, generally from 20 hertz to 20 kHz in equal amounts. Pink noise is a variant of white noise. Pink noise is white noise that has been filtered to reduce the volume at each octave. Each octave is reduced by 6 decibels, resulting in a noise sound wave that has equal energy at every octave.)

I then built a Helmholtz Resonant Absorber to absorb that fundamental standing wave hence killing the subsequent harmonic waves. More details on the Helmholtz Resonant Absorber can be found on
http://www.audioholi...sonatorabsorber.php#

Again not building/using a Helmholtz Absorber is not the end of the world !

I would much rather recommend the use of the Allison's Law written about by Roy Allison and talked about by Robert Greene of TAS. Mathematical formula can be found in the AES publication of Volume 32 Number 9 page 677 in the September 1984 edition.

Which in simple language states that that:
You need to ensure that the distance from the center point of the lower most woofer to the floor, to the side wall, to the wall behind the speaker is equal to a minimum of the shortest distance multiplied by the longest distance equal to the other distance squared.
Further simplified:
The "other distance" is the distance measured besides the shortest and longest.
For instance, if distance from floor to speaker (middle of woofer) is 2 1/4 ft, the distance of the speaker to wall behind is 4 ft and the distance of the speaker to the side wall is 3 ft, you need to multiply the shortest and longest (2 1/4 times 4) and compare it 3 squared.
You need to first start off by ensuring that the tweeter of each speaker is at ear level at the listening position and then go about applying Allison's Law.

So please allow me to paraphrase the above:

If you can apply the 1/3rd speaker positioning across length diagonals of the floor, ensure that the speakers are as close to being two meters away from each other, then ensure that the listening position is, slightly less then the distance between both speakers, toeing them ever so slightly to obtain a three dimensional image & applying Allison's law. If this can be acheived you are there at 85 %..so forget about the Helmholtz Absorber !!! For the purists you can go through the entire nine yards........

Again any questions /clarifications / debates on the above are most welcome.

The next part with your permission, may be on sound treatments, their position & applications.

Regards,

Junia.

Thanks Junia.

All, here is an interesting link that has some more details
Room dimensions - http://www.stereophile.com/reference/35/index1.html
Article link - http://www.stereophile.com/reference/35/

Keep it coming..keep it coming..

Hi Junia,

Interesting read but I'm still would love for you to describe your subjective thoughts on *Your* setup and *Your* room size, *Your* speaker placement as I'm interested in knowing how the Masters sound with the plinus say in comparison whatever else you heard then.

Also MOST important question again why the Masters say instead other speakers like the Rockport, Avalon, Kharma....


Regards,
Satyam

Dear Satyam,

I will get back to your questions within the next 24 hours.

And please get ready for some suprises because I will not be advocating the Masters.....you will know why I am shipping them to India.

Just because a speaker carries a fancy price tag does not mean that it is the best.

I know it will stir a hornet's nest but hey I am entitled to perceptions on gear which I have bought !!

Regards,

Junia.

jsa_ind schrieb:

Dear Satyam, I will get back to your questions within the next 24 hours. And please get ready for some suprises because I will not be advocating the Masters.....you will know why I am shipping them to India. Just because a speaker carries a fancy price tag does not mean that it is the best. I know it will stir a hornet's nest but hey I am entitled to perceptions on gear which I have bought !! Regards, Junia.

Hi Junia,

I absolutely agree on the fact that just because they are expensive that they are the best, I'll quote a good friend of mine who once said "price has nothing to do with performance but EGO" but still if you paid up for them at half retail also I'm intrigued as what was about it that you were sold to the speakers and the amp.

All I want to know is your subjective thoughts on them, as that’s what audio is to me to a large extent. Also at the price-point were are talking about there’s ABSOLUTELY nothing OBJECTIVE in the decision making that went into buying the equipment besides obviously the fact that the room you'd be playing it in and the kind of music you listen to and how does it sound with it.


Regards,

Satyam

Dear Satyam,

I wouldn't go so far as to say that "price has nothing to do with performance but EGO" in its entirety.

Let me illustrate, it does not mean if you opt for "Separates" over a "Boom Box you have an ego, there would be a definite increase in the quality of music reproduction, for sure. It only if one pays over and above a certain price barrier could it be labeled as ego. What that price barrier is .... really depends what one's spending capacity really is. Additionally at the extreme end of insanity as to paying for products, yes there is an Ego factor....like buying a platinum mobile phone or a diamond encrusted watch or music systems at the extreme of so called ultra high end....like mono blocks costing $ 125,000 per piece etc....

The point I am trying to make everything is relative to something. Yes if you spend more then your means, for the sake of impressing others or feeling good, that is Ego for you !!

Having said that, allow me the liberty of getting into specifics

I assume you know my setup. If not details are may be found in my Profile.

My room is 20 feet by 30 feet with a ceiling height of 15 feet to 20 feet of a vaulted ceiling. It does not exactly fit the requirements of a perfect "Golden Room" but I cannot complain. The largeness of the room does give the speakers enough breathing space, especially on the low end.

The speakers are placed in exactly the same way as I discussed earlier:
The center-point of the foot print of the loudspeaker is (approximately as it is not a Golden Room...the perfect spot came after I did some MLSSA tests) at the point where the diagonals across both the length & breath of the floor interests the third part of the length of the room. (Those who have book shelves or who are extremely finicky apart from the above, may additionally also opt for Allison's Law )

The speakers are two & a half meters apart & toed in.

At the end of the room are two Helmholtz Resonant Absorbers, to absorb the fundamental standing wave & its harmonics. Details of which have been covered in earlier postings

The front wall in between the speakers & besides the speakers are treated with 24 Modex's http://www.rpginc.com/products/modex/index.htm .

The trick is to make the space directly behind the speakers as Absorptive as possible. The alternative solution which I found to be highly successful was open windows behind the speakers, or thick curtains or high density sponge panels or any kind of heavy soft absorptive materials, running along the entire length of the wall behind the speakers.

The front wall intersections with the side walls, were treated with two ASC Power Traps http://www.asc-studio-acoustics.com/powertrap.htm
Again a very cost competitive solution is to take a roll of high density sponge / foam / soft furnishing & wrap it around a cylindrical tube of a minimum of 12 inch in diameter or ensure the rigidness of the porous material ensures a diameter of at least 12 inches. Alternatively a compromised solution would be to roll material around its own axis. The wall of the cylinder may be at least 4 inches thick.

The left & the right walls were treated with 32 pieces, of BAD Panels http://www.rpginc.com/products/badpanel/index.htm & Abffusors http://www.rpginc.com/products/abffusor/index.htm Again a very simple solution is to make a book self along the length of the wall of at least 4 feet in height and line it with a whole lot of books. Old books are available a dime a dozen off your local "Old Paper Mart" or the vendors near Flora Fountain for you guys from Bombay. Only ensure that there is at least two to three inches of headroom after the books are placed on the shelves. The books may not be tightly packed together, but loosely stacked next to each other. Above this, Sandex or Foamed Gypsum (hydrated calcium sulphate), Thermocol (Expandable Polystyrene) EVA ( Ethylene-Vinyl Acetate Copolymer) Expanded Skived low density Polyethylene foam, may be used. Supreme Industries & Camphor Allied make Expanded Skived Low Density Polyethylene foam, which I feel is better then anything I have used so far.

The corner walls again had two ASC traps. An alternative solution has been mentioned above.

At the back I have used 12 Diffractals, http://www.rpginc.com/products/diffractal/index.htm & 8 Omniffusors http://www.rpginc.com/products/omniffusor/index.htm . The trick here is to defuse the sound as much as possible. I have found if 2 mm ply wood is taken and bent in a concave shape, filled with sand and backed all around with another plywood sheet, they make excellent diffusers.

The floors were covered intermittently with thick rugs of various sizes.

As the room was arched I didn't do any room treatments. For those who want to break the monotony of a parallel sides between the floor & the roof, you could mix & match the roof with the plywood diffusers & polyethylene foam. Only ensuring that the roof corners are adequately treated with soft absorptive material.

Part II follows............

Regards,

Junia.

Thanks Junia for the posts. It will take most of us some time to understand these things. Usually we just purchase a good system and then forget about it. In India, most materials are fairly cheap. The only thing is knowing how to use them effectively.

Unfortunately, most of us do not have the luxary huge rooms in India.

Dear Neutral & hsmraj,

You don't need to have fancy equipment, large rooms & a mind of Einstein!!

With very average, equipment, rooms & intellect, one could easily come up with a system that would could close to 75% of a systems where one would pay 10's of thousands of dollars.

I have been there and feel that it is a criminal waste of money. There are some people who wish to mislead audiophiles like you, that the more you pay the better the system would sound. Yes upto a certain point that holds water.....separate system will be better then a two-in-one or boom box. But as you go higher & higher the ladder the difference in sound is so insignificant that it defeats the very purpose of paying so much more extra money !!

I would most willingly help anyone for free without any obligations to tweak their systems up with a minimum of investments....the only investments is dedication, patience & lots of elbow grease !! See for yourself a few books, rugs, wooden objects and roper placement of speakers would make a HUGE difference in your listening experience !!

Regards,

Junia.

hsmraj schrieb:

Unfortunately, most of us do not have the luxary huge rooms in India.

Believe mme,it is better than the miniscule rooms in europe

Junia has raised a very important and critical point of Room treatment which contributes more to sound than the equipment itself..undoubtedly the most ignored !

arj wrote :

Junia has raised a very important and critical point of Room treatment which contributes more to sound than the equipment itself..undoubtedly the most ignored !

you are one of the lucky few who had a seperate room for music without comps, television,....

While most of us can do room treatemnts, speaker placement may be a bit of a problem especially with all the furniture in our living rooms

Additionally I believe the selection of speakers should be done based on the room. I have rear ported floorstanders. Maybe I should have chosen non-ported speakers to give more flexibily.

Hopefully I will be able to move to a new house shortly where I can plan for audio