Buying A DAC For HDD Playback

bombaywalla schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: Has anyone heard a Lavry Gold DA924 DAC ? Supposedly it is special, any comments are welcome. you'll find plenty of commentary on Rommie The Cat's website. Use your favourite search engine to find out some more info. Rommie owns one himself for a long time now.....

I have been following Romy for almost an year now..he has had a really long discussion thread on Power (especially Purepower)
he seems to be a highly opinionated guy

Arj schrieb:

bombaywalla schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: Has anyone heard a Lavry Gold DA924 DAC ? Supposedly it is special, any comments are welcome. you'll find plenty of commentary on Rommie The Cat's website. Use your favourite search engine to find out some more info. Rommie owns one himself for a long time now..... I have been following Romy for almost an year now..he has had a really long discussion thread on Power (especially Purepower) he seems to be a highly opinionated guy :)

This is my best thread in that forum:

http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=16196

Being opinionated! Hmm I think he is not a diplomatic actor like so many folks in this very subjective hobby! It’s a good thing in my book.

Arj schrieb:

bombaywalla schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: Has anyone heard a Lavry Gold DA924 DAC ? Supposedly it is special, any comments are welcome. you'll find plenty of commentary on Rommie The Cat's website. Use your favourite search engine to find out some more info. Rommie owns one himself for a long time now..... I have been following Romy for almost an year now..he has had a really long discussion thread on Power (especially Purepower) he seems to be a highly opinionated guy :)

yeah, Arj, he's opinionated but his strong opinions are based in experience & some sort of fact. When he insults something, he does it giving a reason. Not at all easy to swallow his strong criticism but if you use it correctly, you can improve yourself as a listener & stereophile. IMHO. FWIW.

hey when i said opinionated, i said so positively..i like the guy. has passion for the hobby

abhi.pani schrieb:

bombaywalla schrieb: abhi.pani schrieb: Amp_Nut schrieb: Yes, Arj. But the Audio Research DAC does not include a Volume Control, hence requiring an additional Pre Amp in the system. The Pre Costs as much as the DAC ... What an irony Amp_Nut, I am in an exactly opposite situation. I desperately want to avoid the volume control that my CDP has. I anyway need an active preamp since my power amp clearly favors active over passive preamp. Even the manufacturer of my power amp strongly suggested against a passive preamp with his design. So I have this trouble of having dual attenuators . Keeping my CDP at full volume is a solution but that way the gain is too high hence I can use only the first two notches on my active preamp. Not an easy situation to be in. I see! yes, the AA Capitole Ref does have a built-in volume control. So, now you have 2 voltage control knobs & (no surprise!) too much gain. So, AP, did you not audition the Capitole Ref in your system before buying? I'm assuming that you bought it from someone in India & not off A'gon (might be a bad assumption on my part? if you bought it off A'gon I can see why you did not already know that the 2 volume controls would be an issue for you). if you have already struggled a lot w/ this situation, why not sell the Capitole Ref & get the Capitole Classic which does not have the internal vol control? AP, since you like te sound and versality of the CDP with Digital i/p & o/ps, why not consider another Pre amp ? I have been juggling between these two options myself. Going to a AA Capitole Classic looks easy because it will save me from investing more. However it is not easy to find a Classic within India. Buying from abroad is a lot of hassle including the risk of shipping damage (I have already met with such incidents twice in the last two years). OTOH, buying another preamp is an option but it will mean further investment and also finding another good tube preamp (after living with a tube preamp it is difficult to go SS). I dont know which way I will go. I will start somewhere soon though.

AP, I've been meaning to ask you re. the NEW sound of the Audio Aero players. The older revs of players from this company, tho' nice sounding, had an overly lush sound making them sound overly romantic. Hence, Blues & Rock/Pop was not their strong suit. Did you get a chance to hear the older rev AA players? How would you characterize the sound of the latest Capitole Ref? Can you also write some about the 'French sound'? thanks.

Bombaywalla, I have not heard the older players. The new player cannot be characterized as romantic. Yes it has a natural warmth to its tones and also has a lot of air and glow in the soundstage which is typical of a tube output stage. I have never heard an SS player have such characters. Having said that it is very detailed and dynamic as well. When I connect it to my TEAC VRDS transport and use the AA DAC only I hear a resolution, ambience, soundstage and dynamics much superior to my previous Reimyo DAC. The DAC especially gives you that rare combination of best of tube and SS. Coming over to French sound, well I do not have much idea about French products and their sound. I had a Bluenote Stibbert CDP which is an Italian product and that was definitely more on the romantic side, wet and saturated. But that player did not have the neutrality or frequency extension of either the Reimyo or the AA. I have heard couple of other Italian products (Unison research, SF) so I do have an idea about their sound. Have you heard the S-L CDP ?

abhi.pani schrieb:

Bombaywalla, I have not heard the older players. The new player cannot be characterized as romantic. Yes it has a natural warmth to its tones and also has a lot of air and glow in the soundstage which is typical of a tube output stage. I have never heard an SS player have such characters. Having said that it is very detailed and dynamic as well. When I connect it to my TEAC VRDS transport and use the AA DAC only I hear a resolution, ambience, soundstage and dynamics much superior to my previous Reimyo DAC. The DAC especially gives you that rare combination of best of tube and SS. Coming over to French sound, well I do not have much idea about French products and their sound. I had a Bluenote Stibbert CDP which is an Italian product and that was definitely more on the romantic side, wet and saturated. But that player did not have the neutrality or frequency extension of either the Reimyo or the AA. I have heard couple of other Italian products (Unison research, SF) so I do have an idea about their sound. Have you heard the S-L CDP ?

thanx. yes, I have heard the S-L CDP @ the RMAF several years ago. It was playing in an otherwise all-Odyssey Audio electronics setup so it was hard to say anything about the S-L CDP sonics.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Manek said: Btw, do electrocompaniet make a Dac ? Yes they Do ! and I still Love the sound of my Electrocompaniet CD-1 UP**. Would be GREAT to get that sound from a DAC. Unfortunately, the EC DAC is not ( I suspect) on par with theat of my CD player... which is their Top of the line The DAC is positioned 1 rung lower, and that level, slips significantly below what I want. ** My EC CD Player, has a slightly aggressive mid range, which nicely compensates the overtly polite sound of my Revel Salon Speakers ( Revel = Mark Levinson = 'Dark' Levinson ) Yes Bombaywalla, once again, 2 wrongs approaching a 'Right.' But then, I do not know of ANY Hi Fi Component that is 100% right .. :.

A_N, after what seems a long time I had the opportunity to read some audio mags & I found this on the rear cover of Hi-Fi News (see attached pix). It is the E-C PD 1 DAC, which has a volume control & USB interfacr & allows wireless streaming from PC/Mac to it via their /E-C USB Music Streamer (which is also shown in the same pix). Is this the DAC that said was placed 1 rung lower than your CD player?

In Hi-Fi Plus, I found a 'lab report' on Music Fidelity's CLiC music server. This unit has an Ethernet connection (just like you wanted) & a built in DAC as well (see 2nd attached pix). Plus, it seems to be reasonably priced @ 1250 UK Pounds.
Maybe one of these might pique your interest?

Hey thats a good find B'walla..link here to the Electrocompaniet site http://www.electrocompaniet.com/products/prelude/PD-1.html

the streamer is even more interesting
http://www.stereophi...-1-wireless-streamer

unfortunately the streamer will work ONLY with the dac what a bummer

Adding one more dac to the mix to add to the confusion.

The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC.

This DAC has been making some waves recently among many folks on audiogon and audiocircles.

http://dbaudiolabs.com/signatureDac.html

Here’s a discussion on audiocircle
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.840

How about this ?

http://www.totaldac.com/

Not the run of the mill stuff by any stretch

square_wave schrieb:

Adding one more dac to the mix to add to the confusion. The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC. This DAC has been making some waves recently among many folks on audiogon and audiocircles. http://dbaudiolabs.com/signatureDac.html Here’s a discussion on audiocircle http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.840

I think the Tranquility is limited to 16/44.

Let me also add the new acoustic portrait DAC to the mix. One of the most neutral and musical dacs I have ever heard. It does assync USB 24 /196 if I am not mistaken. I also had the Lampizator top model dac in my system for a day. Highly recommended but it does not do USB. You will need a usb to spdif converter.

square_wave schrieb:

Let me also add the new acoustic portrait DAC to the mix. One of the most neutral and musical dacs I have ever heard. It does assync USB 24 /196 if I am not mistaken. I also had the Lampizator top model dac in my system for a day. Highly recommended but it does not do USB. You will need a usb to spdif converter.

Interesting.

By the way, do you mean 24/192 or 24/96?

Shahrukh schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: Let me also add the new acoustic portrait DAC to the mix. One of the most neutral and musical dacs I have ever heard. It does assync USB 24 /196 if I am not mistaken. I also had the Lampizator top model dac in my system for a day. Highly recommended but it does not do USB. You will need a usb to spdif converter. Interesting. By the way, do you mean 24/192 or 24/96?

Sorry. 24/192

Everything you wanted including volume control

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/overdrive-dac

Found a lower cost option for a DAC which has a volume control and uses the ESS Technology 9018 32 bit DAC chip. Does USB.

The Eastern Electric MiniMax.

http://eeaudio.com/eeaudio_20102.htm

Around 1000 $.

Don't let the low cost fool you. It seems to be very well received.

Review:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac.html

Hi Ampnut

How has your search been for dac's till now ?

Any updates ?

Just got to know yday that moon audio D100 and D300 dacs maybe available in mumbai. I believe thay are good too but only do 16/48 on usb. They recommend a good usb to spdif converter to get higher bit rates on usb.

Manek

Hi Manek, Been busy with Work :-( so not much quality time to my hobby ...

However, about 2 weeks ago I had the good fortune to listen to the Wyred4Sound DAC-2, at a Forum memeber's house.

Sorry just can figure out the German to insert a pic here !

See thios link: Wyred4Sound-2

At US $ 1500 is REALLY Fab !

The system I heard it in is different, since it uses Open Baffle speakers, digital equalisation and a reasonable ROTEL CD player as a transport.

I dont have a perfect handle on the system sound, but it seems to me that this DAC is up there, nudging the big boys of DACs !

It also has practically all the features that I am looking for except Ethernet.

I guess its available at US $ 1500 insteasd of UYS $ 3000 since its typically sold factory direct, though this one was bought from Spore.

Any one else heard this DAC ? Would sincerely appreaciate your feedback. Its Certainly on my short list..

Manek Said:

Just got to know yday that moon audio D100 and D300 dacs maybe available in mumbai. I believe thay are good too but only do 16/48 on usb. They recommend a good usb to spdif converter to get higher bit rates on usb.

Interesting. Sould keep an ear open... even though I am not a great fan of the Moon Audio House sound...

Have you heard the Arcam RDAC ? Thoughts ?

Hi

No I haven't heard the arcam yet. Would like to if some dealer had it in stock. But I don't think its in the w4s rung price wise but could get close in performance with a linear power supply(I remember it having a switching wall wart).

What's good is that in the last year or two the affordable dac's(under 1lac retail) are packing a punch above their weight once too often :-) giving the big boys something to think about. In a year or two(the next generation of dacs) the affordable ones will be giving the performance very close to the big boys. It won't be that difficult to do so as well IMHO. W4S is one example. There are others achieving the same or more. The m2tech "young" seems to be the other, calyx, rega etc....for eg people who have the rega dac say its better than the rega saturn cdp already.......

Looks like one may not need to invest big bucks to get a good DAC nowadays...:-)

Regards

Manek

square wave said:

Everything you wanted including volume control http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/overdrive-dac

Thanks for that. I have GREAT respect for Empirical Audio's products, and my first taste was a demo of their SPDIF to USB converter, feeding the Theta Gen VII. Thanks for Burge Cooper of AVI.

That was the first time I hear imediacy out of USB... some 23 years (or more ? ) ago. That sound is still in my head ( and heart ).

The Overdrive... like all of Empirical's products appear to me to have an Industrial look... and that is putting it politely. Frankly it looks like an amature put together a kit to see how it sounds, rather than a finished, proud-to-display expensive Hi Fi product.

At US $ 4000 (Rs1.8 Lakhs) is not inexpensive.

Even then, there is an immediate upgrade to the Power Supply ($$$ ) and the addition of their Off-Ramp 4 or Pace-Car USB reclocker.... More $$$$$$$$$$

And I doubt if I would get another customer for this set of midget boxes, at anywhere close to 50% of the price I pay, when I want to sell them ??

Steve Nugent makes super sounding stuff, but needs to pay attention to the physical perceived value, and offering probably better prices, specially considering that he is selling only factor direct with little to no overhead marketing costs such as advertising and 50% dealer margins.
But a Great sounding product, nevertheless

Square Wave said:

Found a lower cost option for a DAC which has a volume control and uses the ESS Technology 9018 32 bit DAC chip. Does USB. The Eastern Electric MiniMax. http://eeaudio.com/eeaudio_20102.htm Around 1000 $. Don't let the low cost fool you. It seems to be very well received. Review: ]http://www.6moons.co...ric/dac.html

Just read the 6 moons review based on your pointer...

Once again 6 moons considers the Weiss DAC2 as his unbeatable ref.

About 2 years ago I heard the Weiss Minerva ( Its Top End Audiophile DAC then ) in my system, and it took less than 60 seconds to conclude that it did not come even close to my EC 1 UP CD player ( IMHO ofcourse ).

I dont know how the DAC2 compares to the Minerva, but I dont hold Weiss in great esteem ... and if some DAC is not as good as the Weiss...

Guess there is no better yardstick than hearing the product in your own system, of a super system we are familiar with ....

Just Got this E-Mail from a friend:

1. Was reading up some discussions on Hi-Fi forum as regards your requirement of a DAC for HDD playback. Yesterday on my casual visit to Lamington Road I came across a very cheap DAC that housed an FM tuner & Power Supply as well. It had a USB front jack that could plug in a flash drive and connects to a preamplifier. The cost was just Rs.650. The DAC + FM Tuner, fully built is available from C K Electronics at Lamington Road 2. Would it better to first copy files on a pen drive and then plug it into the DAC rather than connect the PC to the USB port to use the HDD as you would have SMPS noise as well?

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Just Got this E-Mail from a friend: 1. Was reading up some discussions on Hi-Fi forum as regards your requirement of a DAC for HDD playback. Yesterday on my casual visit to Lamington Road I came across a very cheap DAC that housed an FM tuner & Power Supply as well. It had a USB front jack that could plug in a flash drive and connects to a preamplifier. The cost was just Rs.650. The DAC + FM Tuner, fully built is available from C K Electronics at Lamington Road 2. Would it better to first copy files on a pen drive and then plug it into the DAC rather than connect the PC to the USB port to use the HDD as you would have SMPS noise as well?

I believe that the sonics are much better off a SSD (which is what a jump/pen/flash drive is tantamount to) than a spinning HDD.
when pulling data off a HDD the jitter is heavily reduced (compared to reading off a CD in low-end & mid-end CDPs) but there is some residual jitter due to the fact that the HDD has to maintain constant velocity & any small changes to this velocity creates some jitter & the reading action does glitch the power supply. With a SSD, there are no moving parts & NAND-based flash memory is super-fast w.r.t. read times so the jitter is down to how the USB communication is taking place which can be further (practically) nullified by async USB communication.
So, yeah, get the biggest flash drive you can buy (I think that 32GB should be good enough for a few listening sessions - 0.5GB per CD implies approx 64 CDs on the flash drive. you are not going to listen to 64 CDs in 1 session!) & stick it into the DAC & you should be set for a week. Then, change out the music to something diff & you will be set for another week & so on - endless variety!!

Ampnut

Ck has a lot more
Norge type circuits, preamps, amps, amp chasis(flimsy) etc.

I have always liked that shop ever since you referred me to him. Good for basic spares.

Manek

Been reading about the nuforce dac-9.
New model and it is also promises to be the proverbial "giant killer" !

Looks good, should sound good, touch screen too I am told !

Has a good quality headphone out with analogue volume control.

Wonder if this is sold in india ?

Manek

I think Audio Vision India distributes Nuforce In India.

These are one of the few Indian Hi Fi distributors that keep stock and have spacious demo facilities in Mumbai..... Unlike the tons of catalog salesmen in Hi Fi here

Their name didn't figure on the nuforce website when I checked recently.

Yes I have heard nuforce amps at avi a couple of years ago. They were very expensive, far more than the us retail. But if you can here it....its rumored to have the ess chips, though nuforce doesn't disclose the dac chips on its website.
It retails at 1675 usd.

Manek

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I think Audio Vision India distributes Nuforce In India. These are one of the few Indian Hi Fi distributors that keep stock and have spacious demo facilities in Mumbai..... Unlike the tons of catalog salesmen in Hi Fi here :D

Did go to AVI last month. Demoed the DAC9. They never told me the price, saying it hasn't been finalized. They never got back either, despite giving them my card.

Sharukh

How did the DAC9 sound to you ?

Manek

Quite "alright" Manek. Heard it with the new Maggie 1.7 and (I think) a Jeff Rowland amp.

Dunno why but nothing's been wowing me lately. But that's not to say it's bad. Maybe I'm listening to stuff with way too many expectations these days.

Let's just say it's not a sound that I remember.

Sharukh

Now "wow" ?
That's probably because there isn't much that's around that is better than what you have heard in the past :-)

That's what my brother had to say too a few weeks ago. So you are not alone :-)

Manek

Manek schrieb:

Sharukh Now "wow" ? That's probably because there isn't much that's around that is better than what you have heard in the past :-) That's what my brother had to say too a few weeks ago. So you are not alone :-) Manek

Possibly.

My last "wow" was a complete MBL reference system.

Shahrukh schrieb:

Quite "alright" Manek. Heard it with the new Maggie 1.7 and (I think) a Jeff Rowland amp. Dunno why but nothing's been wowing me lately. But that's not to say it's bad. Maybe I'm listening to stuff with way too many expectations these days. Let's just say it's not a sound that I remember.

audio equipment done correctly should never 'wow' you. once you listen critically to that component you'll learn that it has everything you are looking for.
anything that 'wows' will probably go in & out of your system like the fickle breeze once it's done 'wowing' you....

bombaywalla schrieb:

Shahrukh schrieb: Quite "alright" Manek. Heard it with the new Maggie 1.7 and (I think) a Jeff Rowland amp. Dunno why but nothing's been wowing me lately. But that's not to say it's bad. Maybe I'm listening to stuff with way too many expectations these days. Let's just say it's not a sound that I remember. audio equipment done correctly should never 'wow' you. once you listen critically to that component you'll learn that it has everything you are looking for. anything that 'wows' will probably go in & out of your system like the fickle breeze once it's done 'wowing' you....

The word "wow" can mean different things to different audiophiles, however a system when done right cannot sound uninteresting. So, given a well done system the reaction of one listener can easily vary from other. For example some one coming from a NAD + Wharfdale combo may react in an overwhelming manner than some one coming from a Wilson + Pass combo. One is wowed instantly while other may not but in the end both should walk away with the feeling of being musically very satisfied. If that happens, one cannot stop oneself from feeling wowed, sooner or later.

Here is something damn interesting:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/vrs/vrs.html

Its written in 2004 !

I missed that. But still, something that compares so well with a $18k Reimyo CDP must be something worth finding out. The VRS website is down, are they still in business ?

abhi.pani schrieb:

I missed that. But still, something that compares so well with a $18k Reimyo CDP must be something worth finding out. The VRS website is down, are they still in business ?

AP, yes the company might no longer be in biz - very likely situation.
I found this on the web:

Vrs Audio Systems

Brief contact information
9358 Chateau St Jean Dr
Las Vegas, 89123 Nevada
USA
phone (702) 263-8094

VRS presents the Revelation Music System, a hard disk-based digital source designed as a State of the Art High End Audio playback and recording component for the home.


FWIW.

I missed that. But still, something that compares so well with a $18k Reimyo CDP must be something worth finding out. The VRS website is down, are they still in business ?

Since that article was written in 2004, the VRS and $ 18 K Reimyo are ( ? ) of that vintage ?
Digital playback, and particularly DACs have come a Looooong way since 2004.

I am not sure how valid that rave review is comparable with today's DACs...

Among the new Dacs, Burson DAC 160 is suposed to be another giant killer. it has a model which has a headphone amp built in as well and was so popular a a DAC that the new DAC only model was introduced.
it seems to be very well reviewed and has USB (async) and SPDIF in.

From http://www.digitalaudioblog.com

Schitt Audio, maker of the popular Vahalla and Lyre tube headphone amps, is now taking pre-orders for its debut stand-alone DAC to be called the Bifrost, the company's first in a planned series of three. The DAC has a very respectable set of specs and very likable price of $349. Featuring a 32-bit D/A conversion, fully discrete analog section, sophisticated clock management system, asynchronous USB 2.0 option, as well as SPDIF coaxial and optical inputs, all with 24/192 capability. The DAC comes with a 5-year warranty and a 15-day satisfaction guarantee return policy. The Bifrost begins shiipping end of August 2011. Fully Upgradable Bifrost's modular design uses separate, snap-in USB Input and DAC/Analog cards. When USB technology changes, you can simply drop in a new, better USB Input Card. When meaningful upgrades to D/A converters come out, you can snap in a new DAC/Analog Card.

Maybe the company should have changed its name ?

A review of the NuForce DAC here. http://www.stereotimes.com/

Amp_Nut schrieb:

From http://www.digitalaudioblog.com Schitt Audio, maker of the popular Vahalla and Lyre tube headphone amps, is now taking pre-orders for its debut stand-alone DAC to be called the Bifrost, the company's first in a planned series of three. The DAC has a very respectable set of specs and very likable price of $349. Featuring a 32-bit D/A conversion, fully discrete analog section, sophisticated clock management system, asynchronous USB 2.0 option, as well as SPDIF coaxial and optical inputs, all with 24/192 capability. The DAC comes with a 5-year warranty and a 15-day satisfaction guarantee return policy. The Bifrost begins shiipping end of August 2011. Fully Upgradable Bifrost's modular design uses separate, snap-in USB Input and DAC/Analog cards. When USB technology changes, you can simply drop in a new, better USB Input Card. When meaningful upgrades to D/A converters come out, you can snap in a new DAC/Analog Card. Maybe the company should have changed its name ? ;)

What a BUMmer !

Bifrost ! Wonder what it means.

The writeup looks very interesting !
Good aggressive pricing.

Birdland also I think has modular stuff.

Manek

manek, i think AN is alluding to

Schitt Audio

:-)

Another DAC worth noticing:
http://www.nosminidac.nl/Octave_English.html
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/metrum/1.html