USB to Digital converter

I tried the M2Tech Hiface both direct and with a battery pack and compared it to my existing PCI EMU 1212M. Both had their strong points but I still prefer my existing EMU over the Hiface. The Hiface has a blacker background and a more true mid range. However the EMU walks all over the Hiface in terms of detail retrieval. The detail out of the EMU is way way more than the Hiface and honestly there's more presence and air too.

I'll shortly be putting my Hiface for sale. May work in someone else's system but definitely not mine.

sigh... disappointing..

Thanks for the feedback ROC.

So I guess I am back to trying to find a nice on board card for bitperfect digial out.
ANy recommendations? Prefer one with a BNC coaxial output on it. Hard to come by those. The RME Hammerfall HDSPe cards seem nice but are upwards of 500$. SO are th Lynx AES16 r Lynx2.

There doesn't seem to be anything in between.
I might just have to go back to my ESI Juli@ unless you guys can suggest some other?

Take a look at the Asus Xonar Essence ST/STX.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

sigh... disappointing.. Thanks for the feedback ROC. So I guess I am back to trying to find a nice on board card for bitperfect digial out. ANy recommendations? Prefer one with a BNC coaxial output on it. Hard to come by those. The RME Hammerfall HDSPe cards seem nice but are upwards of 500$. SO are th Lynx AES16 r Lynx2. There doesn't seem to be anything in between. I might just have to go back to my ESI Juli@ unless you guys can suggest some other?

just be patient and wait...in a year or so people will start getting it right

Kamal schrieb:

Take a look at the Asus Xonar Essence ST/STX.

This is a 'super' budget audio solution.
I recommend it.
Must try.

Asus.....have used a few of their products in the past like mobo's, display cards, cd/dvd drives! Pc's and have been immensely satisfoed by each onee of them.

I am sure their audio offering would also be good.


Manek

Have a Xonar Essence sitting in my other rig. Need to try it in my media rig to see how the spdif out is.

At a completely different Price / performance level..... Last night stumbled on to the news that dCS has launched their DEBUSSY DAC

Probably intended to give dCS a slice of the (somewhat ! ) more Mainstream Audio market, the DEBUSSY DAC is price at a more realistic US $ 11,000 MRP.

Compare this to their Scarlatti stack which is above US $ 50 K and it seems to me that this is a SERIOUS effort by dCS.

The DAC provides SPDIF and Async USB.

I wonder how this sounds compared to their Puccinni CD / SACD player ?

Any posts on the net you guys can point me to ??

Cool !

Debussy combines the legendary dCS Ring DAC and our patent pending (GB0817141.5) asynchronous usb technology in one box to deliver a DAC that will extract amazing performance from any digital source.

Arj schrieb:

Cool ! Debussy combines the legendary dCS Ring DAC and our patent pending (GB0817141.5) asynchronous usb technology in one box to deliver a DAC that will extract amazing performance from any digital source.

After 6 months they'll have a Debussy Clock which will 'further improve' the sound for a meagre US$ 6500.00!

msb1 schrieb:

Arj schrieb: Cool ! Debussy combines the legendary dCS Ring DAC and our patent pending (GB0817141.5) asynchronous usb technology in one box to deliver a DAC that will extract amazing performance from any digital source. After 6 months they'll have a Debussy Clock which will 'further improve' the sound for a meagre US$ 6500.00! :)

Nice one...

The Debussy Dac from dCS. A fantastic product at a fantastic price. This product is now in the reach of many more audiophiles.

The product features async usb input along with Dual Aes to accept upto 192khz for high res files besides the regular spdif inputs.

Has a variable out so can be connected to a power amplifier directly.

The Debussy Dac features the very same legendary Ring Dac that is present in the flagship Scarlatti series Dac.

Regards
SNV

SNV said :

This product is now in the reach of many more audiophiles.

Very true !

Dual Aes to accept upto 192khz for high res files besides the regular spdif inputs.

Does this mean that via USB it will only do 24/96 ?

Yes, its 24/96 on USB as per the specs. For 24/192 you have to use Dual AES.

Surprising since many are doing 24/192 on USB now. Empirical should have their USB 2.0 24/192 DAC out soon.

SNV schrieb:

The Debussy Dac features the very same legendary Ring Dac that is present in the flagship Scarlatti series Dac.

Thisis exactly the reason i want to try and score an Arcam Diva CD92. Its got the dCS Ring DAC and the PMD200 digital filter.

I don't know if the FMJ23 has this as well.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Does this mean that via USB it will only do 24/96 ?

Dear Amp_Nut,

Yes via USB it will only support files upto 24/96.

For high res files - 176.4 & 192 you need to use Dual Aes.

Regards
SNV

msb1 schrieb:

Surprising since many are doing 24/192 on USB now. Empirical should have their USB 2.0 24/192 DAC out soon.

Dear Msb1,

Could you kindly name a few that can handle native 24/192 on USB2.0.
As far as I know, I do not know of any brand currently to be offering 192 on usb2.0

Regards
SNV

Savyasaachi schrieb:

SNV schrieb: The Debussy Dac features the very same legendary Ring Dac that is present in the flagship Scarlatti series Dac. Thisis exactly the reason i want to try and score an Arcam Diva CD92. Its got the dCS Ring DAC and the PMD200 digital filter. I don't know if the FMJ23 has this as well.

Dear Saachi,

Arcam cd players never had the dCS ring dac. They did work together to offer a dac with some technology from the ring dac, but they are two completely different dacs.

If dCS could offer the ring dac to Arcam at such a low price point, then wouldnt they come out with an economical product themselves and kill everyone else in the market.

Regards
SNV

SNV schrieb:

Dear Msb1, Could you kindly name a few that can handle native 24/192 on USB2.0. As far as I know, I do not know of any brand currently to be offering 192 on usb2.0 Regards SNV

North Star USB DAC32
http://northstar.it/english/Dac_USB32.html

M2Tech Hiface USB-SPDIF Interface. Accepts 24/192 on USB and converts to SPDIF accordingly.

Wyred For Sound DAC2
http://www.wyred4sou...view.html?pid=457975

Empirical is releasing their's shortly. These are a few I've come across, there may be others as well.

FWIW, 192 does not necessarily mean better sound. It's just an added option allowing the playback of hi-rez files without having to downsample.

Found one more: http://www.emu.com/p...hnicalSpecifications

Just some basic math for data rates ...

The Data Rate for a Setereo 24 bit x 192 KHz audio signal will be :

2 channels x 192,000 samples per second per channel × 24 bits per sample = 9,216,000 bit/s = 9.216 M Bits / sec

The USB 2.0 interface has a max speed of 480 MBits per second. However, it is generally accepted that the USB 2.0 interface will manage sustained data transfer of approx half its Max spec. Even that would be 240 M bits / sec.... Waaaaaay more than the 24/192 data rate requirement.




P.S: in comparision, the data rate for Red Book (standard Audio CD ) is 2 channels x 44,100 samples per second per channel × 16 bits per sample = 1,411,200 bit/s = 1.4112 M Bits / sec

msb1 schrieb:

North Star USB DAC32 http://northstar.it/english/Dac_USB32.html M2Tech Hiface USB-SPDIF Interface. Accepts 24/192 on USB and converts to SPDIF accordingly. Wyred For Sound DAC2 http://www.wyred4sou...view.html?pid=457975 Empirical is releasing their's shortly. These are a few I've come across, there may be others as well. FWIW, 192 does not necessarily mean better sound. It's just an added option allowing the playback of hi-rez files without having to downsample. Found one more: http://www.emu.com/p...hnicalSpecifications

Dear Msb1,

Thank you for the links.

Could you kindly let me know if these are ready to play (plug & play) usb dacs or do they require some special drivers to be installed on a pc/mac.

Regards
SNV

SNV schrieb:

Dear Msb1, Thank you for the links. Could you kindly let me know if these are ready to play (plug & play) usb dacs or do they require some special drivers to be installed on a pc/mac. Regards SNV

Hi,
Not sure about the drviers. I have only used the Hiface that comes with it's own driver and I've used it on a PC only.

Can I get 'firewire' in here ?
I miss it;
Cannot play hi-rez music on USB - sad.
Have so much & just do not know how to play it...



I loved my Weiss Minerva - Firewire DAC.
Lovely device...

Funnily, according to specs, USB-2 is FASTER than Firewire !

Now there is USB-3 emerging.... but its quite a different animal from USB-2

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Cannot play hi-rez music on USB - sad.

Hi,
I am able to play hi-rez on USB through my Hiface. Plays 24/192 without a problem. J River shows 24/192 being output and the Cary shows input as 192.

msb1 schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: Cannot play hi-rez music on USB - sad. Hi, I am able to play hi-rez on USB through my Hiface. Plays 24/192 without a problem. J River shows 24/192 being output and the Cary shows input as 192.

So lucky; [you are]

I used to be in a position to play 24/192 when I had the Weiss Minerva. The DAD AX-24 too worked @ 24.192.
Now with both gone, I am back to 16.44.1

a silly question..But do you lose much in terms of Music quality if you "Downgrade" the file to a standard cd bitrate from a Hi Rez one ?

^^ its another level of processing for the software to go through. there would invariably be some form of degradation.

Picked up the Bel canto DAC 2.

Absolutely no competition.. The Assemblage DAC 2.7 is better overall.
The midrange on the Bel Canto is very forward sounding, the highs are recessed comparatively, the soundstage also is immediately noticeable to be quite larger on the DAC 2.7

The bass is in a different league with regards to definition, immediacy and tightness. Sonic Frontiers sure knew what they were doing.

So much for that experimentation...took all of 10 mins to pick apart the Bel canto.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

msb1 schrieb: bhagwan69 schrieb: Cannot play hi-rez music on USB - sad. Hi, I am able to play hi-rez on USB through my Hiface. Plays 24/192 without a problem. J River shows 24/192 being output and the Cary shows input as 192. So lucky; [you are] I used to be in a position to play 24/192 when I had the Weiss Minerva. The DAD AX-24 too worked @ 24.192. Now with both gone, I am back to 16.44.1 :?

The dCS doesn't do 24/192? Heck, it does DSD!!! Or do you not have the dCS any longer? Or am I completely missing something here??

Shahrukh schrieb:

The dCS doesn't do 24/192? Heck, it does DSD!!! Or do you not have the dCS any longer? Or am I completely missing something here??

It upsamples to DSD (Scarlatti Upsampler) but accepts USB from a PC only upt 96Khz. 2 different things.

So if you have a 192 Khz file you need to downsample to 96Khz in your computer before sending it through USB (I think this how it would be done).

Shahrukh schrieb:

The dCS doesn't do 24/192? Heck, it does DSD!!! Or do you not have the dCS any longer? Or am I completely missing something here??

Dear Shahrukh,


The dCS will accept upto 24/96 via USB on its upsampler and upsample to 192 or DSD.

Also if you are to use Dual Aes inputs then it will accept native 24/192.

Regards
SNV

Thanks for that.

Some info on USB DAC's:
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC.htm

supposedly Arcam is coming out with some sort of new DAC with a USB input that is rumored to be async.

http://www.whathifi....-300-standalone-DAC/

Cool.

Also, the new Ayre Top-Of-The line (Universal, with Blu ray) player has an async USB input.

I am speculating that new CD players released in 2010 will generally have a USB input, even if only a few of these will be async.

Also the USB code for USB-2 is probably being rewritten to accomodate 24/192 rather than the current 24/96, and this will be taken for granted in a year or so... If USB-3 does not swamp USB 2 by then !

Nice link, MSB.

Lots of USB DAC and their specs. Makes for easy tech comparisions.

Thanks.

SNV schrieb:

Shahrukh schrieb: The dCS doesn't do 24/192? Heck, it does DSD!!! Or do you not have the dCS any longer? Or am I completely missing something here?? Dear Shahrukh, The dCS will accept upto 24/96 via USB on its upsampler and upsample to 192 or DSD. Also if you are to use Dual Aes inputs then it will accept native 24/192. Regards SNV

All my 2 L & RR & Naim [hi rez] cannot be played by me.

Dear Bhagwan69,

You have only two options -

1. Play 16/44.1 via usb to the dCS upsampler and let the upsampler do its job, alternatively you may also play 24/96 and let it get upsampled to 192 or dsd. You choose.

2. Use the Dual Aes interface for native 24/192 files. Get the linksys card.

p.s. Your set up can accept 24/96.

Regards
SNV

Yes, Sir,

That is because you are using the USB as the digital input for yr dCS stack.

As SNV has written, the dCS can accept 24/192 via its AES inputs, using both AES Digital inputs mountainously...

Though I must add that I have never read of a digital source that will read discs and output 24/192 via dual AES !

I'm sure such an animal exists, but I am not aware ...

SNV ... ? ( the dCS trasport does this magic ? But that would be a rarther rare solution ? )

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Yes, Sir, That is because you are using the USB as the digital input for yr dCS stack. As SNV has written, the dCS can accept 24/192 via its AES inputs, using both AES Digital inputs mountainously... Though I must add that I have never read of a digital source that will read discs and output 24/192 via dual AES ! I'm sure such an animal exists, but I am not aware ... SNV ... ? ( the dCS trasport does this magic ? But that would be a rarther rare solution ? )

Dear Amp_Nut,

Both the Scarlatti and Paganini transports have Dual Aes outputs.

Regards
SNV

Just to add, The Chord Choral Blue transport also has dual BNC outputs and does 24/192. They are now also coming up with a new transport dac that does 32/376 .

SNV schrieb:

Dear Bhagwan69, You have only two options - 1. Play 16/44.1 via usb to the dCS upsampler and let the upsampler do its job, alternatively you may also play 24/96 and let it get upsampled to 192 or dsd. You choose. 2. Use the Dual Aes interface for native 24/192 files. Get the linksys card. p.s. Your set up can accept 24/96. Regards SNV

Sir,

Point noted;

However, the 'ground reality' is that I cannot play any high rez music in my set up. I am sure it is a 'configuration' issue @ my end & that the dCS must be more than capable to do everything [theoretically] !

I have used dual AES / EBU & dual SPDIF [RCA] and all other connections have been engaged [currently connected], but the RR & Naim + 2L just does not play. I wonder why ?
I really miss it....
The resolution is just so much more than 16/44.1 [from normal CD] that once you hear it, you want it....

How I wish I could output 24/192 from the computer to the upsampler - all issues may have gotten sorted - I think.
I do not want to use a 'sound card' on the machine [that is a different can of worms & I do not want to open it] !!

abhi.pani schrieb:

Just to add, The Chord Choral Blue transport also has dual BNC outputs and does 24/192. They are now also coming up with a new transport dac that does 32/376 .

Sir,

Interesting - but I wnt to know, what CD comes in 32/376 that the Coral Blue can 'output' ?

The Chord transport & dac need 3 BNC cables to play audio cd's to its 'best' potential - full buffer in place - at least that is how I liked it. It is a great DAC - super VFM product. I loved having it in my set up.....
It played better than my Wadia 861B [many moons back] for sure. Regret having sold it for 75K !

SNV schrieb:

Dear Saachi, Arcam cd players never had the dCS ring dac. They did work together to offer a dac with some technology from the ring dac, but they are two completely different dacs. If dCS could offer the ring dac to Arcam at such a low price point, then wouldnt they come out with an economical product themselves and kill everyone else in the market. Regards SNV

Dear SNV,

The following excerpt from the Arcam CD9 manual states that they indeed use the DCS Ring DAC:

"Alpha 9 CD Player
The Alpha 9 CD incorporates the unique dCS Ring DAC TM, which delivers state-of-the-art performance from its revolutionary 24 bit technology.
This new DAC is the result of a three year partnership between two British companies - Arcam and dCS (Data Conversion Systems Ltd), the world's leading supplier of professional audio ADCs and DACs. Ring DAC technology exhibits exceptionally linear response when decoding digital audio data, with the ability to resolve the
finest acoustic details recorded on a compact disc."

Also from Stereophile on the Arcam FMJ CD23:

" The CD23 also one-ups the Alpha 9 in the power-supply transformer department—yes, it has two toroidals instead of one. Using two allowed a redesign of the analog output stage of Arcam's dCS-designed Ring DAC.

About the Ring DAC: This is the same 24-bit-capable DAC (except for the output-stage rework mentioned above) used in the Alpha 9. Algorithmically, it's virtually identical to what you get in dCS's own Elgar, which earned an A+ rating in Stereophile's 'Recommended Components'"

Is this a different implementation of the DAC?

If it is indded the same, this would make the Arcams excellent VFM for someone who likes the DCS sound.

Has anyone heard these CD players? Bhagwan, have you heard them??

msb1 schrieb:

SNV schrieb: Dear Saachi, Arcam cd players never had the dCS ring dac. They did work together to offer a dac with some technology from the ring dac, but they are two completely different dacs. If dCS could offer the ring dac to Arcam at such a low price point, then wouldnt they come out with an economical product themselves and kill everyone else in the market. Regards SNV Dear SNV, The following excerpt from the Arcam CD9 manual states that they indeed use the DCS Ring DAC: "Alpha 9 CD Player The Alpha 9 CD incorporates the unique dCS Ring DAC TM, which delivers state-of-the-art performance from its revolutionary 24 bit technology. This new DAC is the result of a three year partnership between two British companies - Arcam and dCS (Data Conversion Systems Ltd), the world's leading supplier of professional audio ADCs and DACs. Ring DAC technology exhibits exceptionally linear response when decoding digital audio data, with the ability to resolve the finest acoustic details recorded on a compact disc." Also from Stereophile on the Arcam FMJ CD23: " The CD23 also one-ups the Alpha 9 in the power-supply transformer department—yes, it has two toroidals instead of one. Using two allowed a redesign of the analog output stage of Arcam's dCS-designed Ring DAC. About the Ring DAC: This is the same 24-bit-capable DAC (except for the output-stage rework mentioned above) used in the Alpha 9. Algorithmically, it's virtually identical to what you get in dCS's own Elgar, which earned an A+ rating in Stereophile's 'Recommended Components'" Is this a different implementation of the DAC? If it is indded the same, this would make the Arcams excellent VFM for someone who likes the DCS sound. Has anyone heard these CD players? Bhagwan, have you heard them??

Sir, trust me. They are two different dacs. If the dacs were identical then why would people buy a dCS product when the arcam is available for less than 1/10th the price.

Yes the implementation is different. The Dac was developed by dCS for Arcam many years ago but its not the same. Similar technology, trickled down. I am not a techo, so I cant tell what are the technical differences are but I have had confirmed this from dCS long ago.

Regards
SNV

If it is indded the same, this would make the Arcams excellent VFM for someone who likes the DCS sound. Has anyone heard these CD players? Bhagwan, have you heard them??

Yes;

The older model - I have heard.
The CD 9 I have not....

The player I want to listen to is the new Rega - Isis.
Hope to soon - HK in August, 2010. Fingers are Xed.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

The player I want to listen to is the new Rega - Isis. Hope to soon - HK in August, 2010. Fingers are Xed.

Have been reading good things about the Rega Isis.
However, I don't know if it's wise at this time to spend money on a CD player. Better to buy the best USB dac available at this price.

I am now controlling (still fully figuring out) Jriver using an Ipod touch. Am also able to control Foobar with the Touch. Convenience is incredible and with a 'good' DAC, I'm sure it will sound as good, if not better than a top CD player.

SNV schrieb:

Sir, trust me. They are two different dacs. If the dacs were identical then why would people buy a dCS product when the arcam is available for less than 1/10th the price. Regards SNV

Just conjecturing..

For every one DAC that dCS sells, Arcam probably sells 100. We all know that parts costs constitute about 3% retail (random figure but the real figure is probably as low). If they sell the DAC to Arcam at 1/20th of the price of their CDP, they probably will make more money from DAC module sales than CDP sales.

BUT.. A dac is not all that makes the CDP, there's the transport, power supply, chassis and snob value too! Snob value has been known to improve detail with darker backgrounds.

msb1 said:

I am now controlling (still fully figuring out) Jriver using an Ipod touch. Am also able to control Foobar with the Touch. Convenience is incredible and with a 'good' DAC, I'm sure it will sound as good, if not better than a top CD player.

Sir, this is FANTASTIC !

Could you please detail this, maybe in a new thread ?

I have not yet moved to HDD playback, and I am hoping that the 2010-11 crop of CD players / async DACs will induce me to cross over.

Would love to learn how you have remote controled Foobar, and save that info away.

Thanks