An amp for 50k rupees or less

square_wave schrieb:

stevieboy schrieb: to give you an analogy, as best as i can think right now, the cadence (and indeed most multidriver speakers and amps other than SET amp combos) are like a heavyweight wwf wrestler, who overpowers his opponent with more weight and sheer physical impact, the lyrita SET combo is more like bruce lee, light on his feet, graceful, quick to react to the situation and give a more nuanced performance. i hope you get the relative point am trying to put across. as i mentioned with the lyrita one is aware that the recording is poor/below par but still detail and nuance and feeling come through. even poor recordings have some amount of detail and nuance. its just that the amount is not as much perhaps as a well recorded album. regards Very precisely put. This is exactly what I feel when I compare the rethm single driver speaker setup with a multidriver / big amp setup. I have heard some other setups which achieve a balance between the two. One such setup is Siva’s personal speakers with the big set amps.

square wave,

i think the big tube amps are push pull! the 845s right?

regards

particleman schrieb:

stevieboy schrieb: the price difference is huge! the cadence amp is double the price of the lyrita audio SET. Wow, I was not aware of Lyrita Audio prices so this is welcome news indeed. Good to know (for me) that it is something affordable that I can aspire to. stevieboy schrieb: on one visit to pune, the guy put on a demo cd (well recorded) and the combo of the jolida tube cd, roksan kandy amp and aritas sounded heavenly. then switch to a normal pink floyd wall cd and all the magic disappeared. with the lyrita combo the magic is there on every cd not just some demo well recorded cd on which you can hear finger slides and keys being plonked and plunked. For me, this is the most telling part of the review. I don't care to analyze the "why" and "how" but the knowledge that it (Lyrita) is a musical amp that will make a majority of recordings sound great is what matters ultimately to an amateur like me. One thought: each amp has been auditioned while paired with its own brand of speaker. Any chance of hearing the amps with the same set of speakers? I guess thats going to be pretty difficult though.

hi particleman,

viren has an el84 based SET too which would be cheaper. one can always upgrade later to the 2A3 amp and get a very very good deal on the old amp giving it back to him. incidentally his harmony 1 speakers are also cheaper by about 15k than the cadence aritas speakers. approx..

regards

stevieboy schrieb:

hi particleman, viren has an el84 based SET too which would be cheaper. one can always upgrade later to the 2A3 amp and get a very very good deal on the old amp giving it back to him. incidentally his harmony 1 speakers are also cheaper by about 15k than the cadence aritas speakers. approx.. regards

Thanks, Steve, the good news just keeps coming. I hope that sometime in future I too can own one of these. Thanks also for your enlightening and informative review which was of immense benefit to me.

particleman schrieb:

stevieboy schrieb: hi particleman, viren has an el84 based SET too which would be cheaper. one can always upgrade later to the 2A3 amp and get a very very good deal on the old amp giving it back to him. incidentally his harmony 1 speakers are also cheaper by about 15k than the cadence aritas speakers. approx.. regards Thanks, Steve, the good news just keeps coming. I hope that sometime in future I too can own one of these. Thanks also for your enlightening and informative review which was of immense benefit to me. :hail

most welcome particleman! am glad the info was of use to someone and someone else too can benefit from viren's good policies the way i did. would suggest calling viren when you need. his number is on his site www.lyrita-audio.in. better results than mailing him. a tip

regards

Guys,
My 2 cents,
I have heard the VA-1 a couple of times now and I have also heard Viren's Push-pull tube amp (not SET).

I could not audition them with the same speakers.
The combo was:
1. VA-1, Cadence Avita
2. VA-1, Cadence Arista
3. Lyrita push-pull valve, Harmony-1 single driver speaker.

VA-1 is a 30 watter while Lyrita was a 15 watter.
I dont know how fair would such a comparison be but, here are my observations:

1. Both of them had the tube sound...warm and musical.

2. VA-1 definitely felt more powerful and more in control (though I would expect a bit more control and authority given the price).

3. Tonality: VA-1 sounded more transparent and true to the tones compared to the Lyrita. I would not want to write much on this aspect because the tonality is also vastly deictated by the speakers. The Lyrita speaker is very unconventional as it is based on single driver and IMO misses out significantly at the extreme octaves. The Lyrita amp sounded nice and rich but the colouration (added sweetness) was more evident than the VA-1. The instrument separation was also better in the VA-1.

4. Imaging and Soundstaging, VA-1 wins handsdown. It sounded much more airy, light with a nice and deep soundstage and well-laid out imaging. Lyrita also presented a good center image but the soundstage was compressed relatively, It lacked the air of the VA-1, the separation of the instruments were less compared to the VA-1.

Having said all that, to me, if only VA-1 had a bit more power and control, it could have been the amp to beat under 100k. With the current pricing (80k), I cannot say if its overpriced or not but it only caters to the section who would compromise on power and control for warmth (the extra bit of warmth that is).

I have a lot respect for Lyrita because it does a nice job for its price. I would any day prefer it over a NAD. With whatever short-comings I have mentioned, One thing that it ensures is "musicality". IMO for the price you pay for it, either you get a solid state amp with some crude power or you get a lower powered musical amp...take your pick.

BTW, when we are at Lyrita, I would like to make special mention for the their Tube pre-amps. Excellent would be an understatement...truly. For around 20k you get a preamp thats hard to beat by anything under 100k. Yes, they are that good musically. The tonality and harmonics they project is amazing. More importantly they make an excellent partner with solid-state power amp, and the sound is almost like the best of both worlds. Highly highly recommended... .

Lovely to read so much infor on 2 products.

Personally, I think that they are at different price points, and its probably best to appreaciate each in their individual capacities, and not as A-B comparisions.

I myself use a Valve integrated amp at the price point of the Cadence, but the sound is VERY different from the Cadaence or the Lyrita.

To each their own. The potential buyer should decide their own set of preferences and priorities and budgets, and ENJOY...

The Audiophile is on a quest, and IMHO there is no destination... just as in a quest for knowledge. The more you learn, the more we realise there is to learn. ..

Keep Learning ( Just Like the slogan : Keep Walking ! )

hi abhi,

an addendum which i remebered on reading your post. one improvement viren had sent to the old push pull amp was paper in oil capacitors. changed the sound dramatically! also i think i was running and still am running the cd player through a cheap stabilizer meant for tvs till i get the isolation transformer. the change from that even to the main wall socket is audible in the airiness and sense of ease areas. bass improves too. i showed rajiv the difference with the SET through the stabilizer and direct main socket and he noticed a difference right away. forgot to add this point to my review. power supply does change things.

also the SET i've got has blackgate cap upgrades done by viren so i dont know if the delhi guys have heard the SET with the blackgate caps? guys? kamal could you clarify?

good detailed review. nice to read such reviews based on one's honest opinions

regards

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I myself use a Valve integrated amp at the price point of the Cadence, but the sound is VERY different from the Cadaence or the Lyrita.

Intresting...Would be nice to know how your amp differs from the VA-1 even though they are at similar price points and both use tube amplification.

stevieboy schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: stevieboy schrieb: to give you an analogy, as best as i can think right now, the cadence (and indeed most multidriver speakers and amps other than SET amp combos) are like a heavyweight wwf wrestler, who overpowers his opponent with more weight and sheer physical impact, the lyrita SET combo is more like bruce lee, light on his feet, graceful, quick to react to the situation and give a more nuanced performance. i hope you get the relative point am trying to put across. as i mentioned with the lyrita one is aware that the recording is poor/below par but still detail and nuance and feeling come through. even poor recordings have some amount of detail and nuance. its just that the amount is not as much perhaps as a well recorded album. regards Very precisely put.images/smilies/insane.gif This is exactly what I feel when I compare the rethm single driver speaker setup with a multidriver / big amp setup. I have heard some other setups which achieve a balance between the two. One such setup is Siva’s personal speakers with the big set amps. square wave, i think the big tube amps are push pull! the 845s right? regards

Yes. I am not sure about the config. push pull or not ? you may have to check with siva.
He does not have them with him now. A friend of his bought them to upgrade from his plinius SA Reference power amp. I think he is making a new pair.

the 845s are push pull. was making a statement i remember from the last time i listened to them. SET configuration would definitely sound different and power rating would come down.

A friend of his bought them to upgrade from his plinius SA Reference power amp.

WOW...thats amazing!!

ANji,B69ji&SRji,you can be sure that I'll spend my time & energy on auditioning & writing about gear which is of relevance to a majority of audiophiles.If you guys can find nothing positive in Lyritas products,then it says a lot about your so called experience & credibility-plz keep on inhabiting your cosy little elitist world!

also the SET i've got has blackgate cap upgrades done by viren so i dont know if the delhi guys have heard the SET with the blackgate caps? guys? kamal could you clarify?

Stevie, yes, I've heard the SET with all the upgrades that you got.They do make a diff to the transparency & transient response and thus ,musicality.
Short of an AC regenerator, an Isolation transformer would make an appreciable impact; I have heard this myself & vouch for it.
We are getting together at Virens' place this Sunday with 2-3 audiophiles who are keen to experience tube sound.

Viren too is working on a new Amp with 845's but in a SET configuration.Will audition & write abt it but its some way off.

abhi.pani schrieb:

A friend of his bought them to upgrade from his plinius SA Reference power amp. WOW...thats amazing!!

if you heard the plinius SA Reference you'd run to the siva's tube amp too

Kamal schrieb:

We are getting together at Virens' place this Sunday with 2-3 audiophiles who are keen to experience tube sound.

that's great kamal! could you post on the el84SET? there's a picture on the lyrita website so am assuming viren has a working model ready. would be very interested since i've lived with that tube for a while. worldwide too its a popular tube for a SET amp. apparently good sounding. almarro and decware come to mind right now...

stevieboy schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb: A friend of his bought them to upgrade from his plinius SA Reference power amp. WOW...thats amazing!! if you heard the plinius SA Reference you'd run to the siva's tube amp too :L

2 things buddy..

1. I havent heard the SA-ref. I have only heard the SA-102 with Siva's pre.

2. Plinius power-amps desparately needs Plinius pre-amps to sound what its meant to sound like. That is one big reason I havent upgraded from Plinius integrateds. Only when I can afford both their pre and power then it would make sense for me to check them out.

Anyway, this doesnt have anything to take away from Siva's achievements. If his amp has dislodged the SA-ref...it wouldnt be an ordinary machine .
My sincere congratulations to Siva!!

ANji,B69ji&SRji,..... If you guys can find nothing positive in Lyritas products,then it says a lot about your so called experience & credibility-plz keep on inhabiting your cosy little elitist world!

Kamalji, Please note that I have not commented on Lyrita products, because I have not heard them in a Lyrita system.

These low power amplifiers need synergystic speakers, and IMHO a review should be with high efficiency speakers, with simple or no cross overs. I have not heard them in such a set up, though I have heard a Lyrita amplifier with 3 way speakers. I was not familiar with that speaker or the rest of the system, so it would be in-appropriate for me to comment or arrive at conclusions.

However, the key issue for me is that Single Driver Speakers and SET amps are not my cuppa, even though I find their sound appealing for short durations / auditions...

Nothing against them, just not my cuppa...

Does that make me an 'Elitist ?'

abhi.pani schrieb:

Anyway, this doesnt have anything to take away from Siva's achievements. If his amp has dislodged the SA-ref...it wouldnt be an ordinary machine . My sincere congratulations to Siva!! :prost

abhi, the post was meant as a tongue in cheek tribute to siva's amp over a much much higher priced amp. his solid state amp itself sounded better. the tube even more so (from memory)

Stevie, the 845 you heard was an SET ...not push pull.

Plinius SA-REF is a good amp....the tonality is different. Its a personal choice. Some like it, some do not. Compared to many highly priced alternatives that i've heard, Plinius is still a better bargain.

Further if someone like Tubes, it will be very difficult for that individual - to listen to any other solid state amp ... leave alone plinius

Like my friend once said, Hi-end audio is complex, but the solution is simple (...probably - reason why tubes rule ).

Sure will, Steve, if he has a piece.
We'll be having chilled Fosters alongside, to lubricate our ears.

oops. stand corrected. the 845 is certainly more powerful but a vastly different sound to the 2A3. even in tubes there are different tastes

very true. any solid state amp i hear now sounds hard to my ears. guess i've become a die hard tubieman now hehe

stevieboy schrieb:

oops. stand corrected. the 845 is certainly more powerful but a vastly different sound to the 2A3. even in tubes there are different tastes very true. any solid state amp i hear now sounds hard to my ears. guess i've become a die hard tubieman now hehe

Once you are a tube-man, it is very difficult to change
But as siva was saying, tube and SS are a personal choice.

Most of the time, it is a choice rather than an upgrade of one over the other.
I stand corrected.

Man his has been quite some thread..was keeping it to read on a holiday and was an interesting read

Kamal schrieb:

We'll be having chilled Fosters alongside, to lubricate our ears.

BTW..i walked into this pub in melbourne with some folks and when asked for a Fosters got really quizzical looks. apparently it is not a very popular beer in oz land !!! no wonder they export it. Victoria Bitter and Cascade are the more oz beers !

siva's amp over a much much higher priced amp. his solid state amp itself sounded better.

Siva knows this the best..but i would not suppose that his amp was any cheaper to him compared to the plinius
he had mentioned in the past that DIY does not necessarily mean lower price !

Are there any "Made In India" choices that might fit the "under 50k" criterion that are also solid state?

Arj-

BTW..i walked into this pub in melbourne with some folks and when asked for a Fosters got really quizzical looks. apparently it is not a very popular beer in oz land !!! no wonder they export it. Victoria Bitter and Cascade are the more oz beers !

I thought that Fosters was the Aussies national drink-at least thats what the ads seem to imply..

Kamal schrieb:

I thought that Fosters was the Aussies national drink-at least thats what the ads seem to imply..

Hmm...the reality is a bit different:
Is Foster's really Australian for beer?
(Also, Fosters sold in some markets is not even made in Australia)

Are there any "Made In India" choices that might fit the "under 50k" criterion that are also solid state?

Hi Particleman,

Siva's solid state amp is a very good .It is far better than many higher priced name brand amps.
The Audire amps are also very good but for the price point of Rs.50,000/ you may be limited to their Titan model,which is a ten watt single ended design .


Regards
Rajiv

Thanks, Rajiv. Appreciate the leads.

Siva's solid state amp ? Have you inquired ?

Manek

Can I have more info about Siva's solid state???

why dont you PM him ? he is one of the most knowledgeable and approachable guys around (id sivat)

Siva

Went to the website but didn't find the input sensitivity and imput impedance figures of the solid state power amp.

Could you please ????

Manek

Manek schrieb:

Siva Went to the website but didn't find the input sensitivity and imput impedance figures of the solid state power amp. Could you please ???? Manek

Input impedance is 24k; Sensitivity would be 1.2v (8R)