Power cables: A different view of on impact of power on components

I had bought some oyaide power socket from him which i still have to install/get installed

I had done the same thing.
I purchased Oyaide connectors from Japan - Company & had changed all the termination on my Jorma Design Power cables.
The Oyaide Connectors are good.

VH Audio prods aren't that expensive. I found they've rave reviews PCs [esp. model flavor-4] as well their ICs - Pulsars. I understand he uses cryo treated conductors for his cables. I thought of ordering them, after the opinions here. As Arj wrote, they might be far better than stock cords.

I experimented with [budgeted] PCs of makes like TMC, Signal Cable, Oyaide - the Tunami, some DIYs & fianlly now trying Nordost Brahma PC. All cords "altered" the sound & very impressive initially. Sooner I found stock cord [though skinny] was the best on my Krell & little improvements on CD player.

Dear bombaywalla> Bhagwan Je is flying in Rocket, I'm in helicopter, I cannot reach that hight sir

Dear ALS,

Sir,

I am very happy;
Only because, you try [experiment] and trust what you hear.
Reviews are not worth it;
It is at the end of the day what sounds sounds good to you & what suits your neeeds [budget & result].

Hence, if VH Audio 'floats your boat' sp be it.

But, always remember, buy what you can 'hear'
If there is a difference, then get into the financials.
Do not but gear because some review for it was good - bad etc. Also do not buy things on some ones recommendation. Audition / Listen & then decide.

Bhagwan Je is flying in Rocket, I'm in helicopter, I cannot reach that hight sir

Interesting the way you see things, if I may be in a position to comment further;;;;;

I do not know of where you or any one else is, I just know that in the 'larger' scale of things - compared to what I have auditioned / listened to at different places - my humble set up is a mere 'skoda rider' and the range goes up all the way to exotic cars, then helicopters & yachts & planes & rockets [I have yet not encountered]. A sample of a rocket may be [just a suggestion] :-

http://www.ultimateaudiovideo.citymax.com/page/page/2906511.htm

This I would kill to listen to.
Bombaywalla - you must go to Chicago to listen to this.
It is like a Mecca for me at least.......SO close to where you are - 2 hours flight. 1 day turn around.

http://www.ultimateaudiovideo.citymax.com/page/page/2906511.htm

This set up I like for the gear - yea, but more so for the room. It is a Rives 3 !!!!
I would kill for this;;

bhagwan69 schrieb:

http://www.ultimateaudiovideo.citymax.com/page/page/2906511.htm This I would kill to listen to. Bombaywalla - you must go to Chicago to listen to this. It is like a Mecca for me at least.......SO close to where you are - 2 hours flight. 1 day turn around.

They did up these 2 rooms couple of months ago. I too would love to listen to this.

Apparently, Gryphon goes wonderfully with the entry level of Rockport - Mira and Mira Grand, so i hear.

I wonder how MBL sounds with Rockports - Arrakis and Altair.
They are using it with the Altair.

Bombaywalla, if you do audition this set up, do let us know your views.

Regards
SNV

MBL is with Altair
Gryphon Signature Mono is with Arrakis

But, this is just the choice of the dealer.

Andy [Payor of R.T.] himself likes Tenor - 1st choice.

If I was in USA, I sure would make that trip to Chicago.
Better than going to any audio show for sure.

Rives 3 room, great acoustics & nice gear, well set up !!!

What would be the price of the 'Lower Cost / Entry level' systems in these rooms ?

[ CD Player + Interconnects + preamp + power Amp + Speakers + Speaker cables + Mains Cords ] ?

US $ 100 K ?

Some informed guesses please ?

Amp_Nut schrieb:

What would be the price of the 'Lower Cost / Entry level' systems in these rooms ? [ CD Player + Interconnects + preamp + power Amp + Speakers + Speaker cables + Mains Cords ] ? US $ 100 K ? Some informed guesses please ?

I will try :-

The CD Player is MBL.
Transport + DAC is 35/- K US $'s
Cables are all Transparent [Rockport recommends & suggests TAC only - speakers are internally wired with TAC]
All is OPUS Line.
I/C + Speaker Cable is 25/- K for IC's & 38/- K for Speaker Cable [basic length - 1.0 m for I/C & 10feet for Speaker]
Pre & Power is MBL.
Should be in the range of 22/- K for pre & 55/- K for Power.
Speaker are Rockport Altair @ 90/- K a pair.

Hence total cost [without] room is about US $'s 250/- K +++
Room is 30/- K consulting [Level 3] + Materials. Another 50/- K at least if not more.

What you see here is about 350/- to 400/- K [conservative]

I may be wrong. If so, please do forgive me.

The Picture under question is :-

Oh My God !

The Speaker Cables cost more than the Transport & DAC !

& I was under the (foolish) notion that 10% of the system cost should be allocated for Cables ( IC + Power + Speaker)

Thanks for the very informative post.

P.S:
I guess if I want to take an appointment, I will have to proclaim a budget of ' around Half a million ' and ofcourse say it flippantly ...

... and declare myself as ' Prince Cuckoo ' from India

10 to 15 percent is a good amount to spend on Cables.

In this case, there is a bit of over exuberance.
TAC has the prices of all its products mentioned on thier web site.

This is the link.

http://transparentcable.com/resources/Retail_Pricelist_2007.pdf

I am sure you could just call and take an appointment and listen to the set up.
Say you are looking for a power amp upgrade. It should work.
You do not need to be a 'price' to listen - most probably the 'price' may not have the 'ability' to appreciate what he may be listening to !!!

Do go and audition - who ever can !!!

well in the end this is a dealers room..even if a $1000 cable may be enough, he would still like to put the 35K cable !
who would buy that cable otherwise ?

An entry level option of Rockport & Gryphon :

1. ROCKPORT MIRA - 13.5K USD
2. GRYPHON MIKADO - 13.5K USD
3. GRYPHON DIABLO - 12.5K USD

Put in another 7-8k USD for Transparent (Bhagwan rightly stated - Rockport uses & recommends Transparent) interconnects and speaker cables and you could have a high end system for less than 50k USD.

Bhagwanji, what do you think of this set up.

Regards
SNV

SNV schrieb:

An entry level option of Rockport & Gryphon : 1. ROCKPORT MIRA - 13.5K USD 2. GRYPHON MIKADO - 13.5K USD3. GRYPHON DIABLO - 12.5K USD Put in another 7-8k USD for Transparent (Bhagwan rightly stated - Rockport uses & recommends Transparent) interconnects and speaker cables and you could have a high end system for less than 50k USD. Bhagwanji, what do you think of this set up. Regards SNV

I could live with it;
Very Happy.

However, the Mikado is currently @ 16/- K [List i.e.]

This is a great solution - nice 300 + sq. ft. room and you will be @ 7.5 on 10 if not more.

I recommend it very strongly.

Arj schrieb:

he would still like to put the 35K cable ! who would buy that cable otherwise ?

Well, you will always come across 'fools' like me !!!

I am sure they must be 'some' in every country, hence, TAC makes the cables & guys like me 'fall' for the trick !!!
After all I just ordered 7 PC's from TAC and all are PLMM.

Hi SNV,

Your recommendation has me thinking .... !

I did not know Rockport 'stooped' to a $ 13K5 price tag... why the B&W 802D that I am lusting for is priced at Rs 9 Lakhs ( US $ 22,500) including Tax ....


The Entire system you mention is less than the price of a Toyota Camry on the Road in Mumbai.. !

Hmmmmmmmm

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Hi SNV, Your recommendation has me thinking .... ! I did not know Rockport 'stooped' to a $ 13K5 price tag... why the B&W 802D that I am lusting for is priced at Rs 9 Lakhs ( US $ 22,500) including Tax .... The Entire system you mention is less than the price of a Toyota Camry on the Road in Mumbai.. ! Hmmmmmmmm :prost

Sir,

Unfortunately, B&W in India is not value for money, its exhorbitant. At that price you could get much better.

I think the system i have mentioned should be a fine one. A lot of guys use Gryphon with Rockport. Pretty much a proven combo, such as Classe-B&W, Audionet-Wilson benesch.
Most people who have this kind of money will buy the Camry and not the system i have mentioned.

Do consider it sir. I think the Mira maybe retails at 17K USD.

Regards
SNV

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Hi SNV, Your recommendation has me thinking .... ! I did not know Rockport 'stooped' to a $ 13K5 price tag... why the B&W 802D that I am lusting for is priced at Rs 9 Lakhs ( US $ 22,500) including Tax .... The Entire system you mention is less than the price of a Toyota Camry on the Road in Mumbai.. ! Hmmmmmmmm :prost

I once had the oppurtunity to "repair" the 802. Quality of the crossover components....i thought ...was a "bit" disapponting.

Now that i know the price price...i will change the "bit" in my previous statement to "very very very" (even at half of 9 lakhs)

My Personal Opinion : I think there are much better speakers available at this price point


Regards
Siva.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I did not know Rockport 'stooped' to a $ 13K5 price tag... why the B&W 802D that I am lusting for is priced at Rs 9 Lakhs ( US $ 22,500) including Tax .... :prost

Well, actually the R.T. stops @ 5K I think. There is a Mira - Stand Mount.

There is 1 pair of the Mira in India.
I like it a lot. You should go and listen to it.

The Speaker for you - Amp Nut - is the Rockport Mira Grand. This has to go in your Hall / Living Room. It costs 30/- K about 12.5 Lacs. Will drive well with Electrocompaniet Mono Amps and the entire set up will fit in the price of an ON ROAD CAMRY [Mumbai RTO - Company Reg].
This I will asure you.
Full set up;
CD + Pre + Power + Speaker + Transparent Cables all under 26/- Lacs. Consider seriously. Can be done. It will kill a B & W 802D !!!

I too will be happy seeing this 'reference level' set up in that great 'Hall' of yours !!!!

Go for it !!!

Hi SNV and Sivat,

MANY thanks for your feedback.

Its not that I have Rs 20L burning a hole in my pocket, but the quality available at this price point has got me thinking.

I am generally open to buying Pre-owned Speakers and Amplification, often available as GREAT deals...

I guess my next priority ( BEFORE buying ) is to visit Atleast 1 Hi Fi show, and listen.

Guys, when is the Spore show ?

Another option in the similar price bracket :

1. WILSON BENESCH A.C.T. - 18.6K USD
2. AUDIONET PRE 1 G3 - 5.5K USD
3. AUDIONET AMP (PAIR) - 12.5K USD

Cables from Chord, since both manufacturers recommend it.

4. CHORD INDIGO INTERCONNECT - rs 90k
5. CHORD SIGNATURE SPK CABLE - rs 75k

Regards
SNV

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I guess my next priority ( BEFORE buying ) is to visit Atleast 1 Hi Fi show, and listen. Guys, when is the Spore show ?

The Show to go for is the HK & Taiwan.
Both are in August.
Singapore is not that great.

However, set ups are always better @ dealer place not in audio shows.

The Show to go for is the HK & Taiwan. Both are in August.

Yes, I missed the chance last year. I just got lazy.

Hope that this year its in the 1st half of the month, since I need to be in office the last 10 days of each month .....

Bhagwan69 when is the Spore how 2008 ?

Is there a Rockport dealer in Spore who has stuff on demo ?

Glen sells R.T. in Singapore.
I do not know the dates of the Show; Sorry.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Bhagwan69 when is the Spore how 2008 ?

its usually in Sept/Oct at Le meredian on Orchard Road...not sure if they are changing it this year.

you guys were raving about that set-up in Chicago. what do you all think of this????




passion taken to the limit

A new angle on the story::

Several readers alerted us to yet another hilarious and preposterous situation in the “audiophile” business, which we have referred to frequently simply because if some of their claims were true, they would be paranormal. Here’s another such. Monster Cable – a company that turns out a fine line of products, but not untinged with the woo-woo flavor, sells a set of $80 HDMI [High Definition Multimedia Interface] cables, designed to handle new signals brought about by the advent of High Definition TV. I thought that was a heavy price to be asking – no, I didn’t invest! – but now we see that the Pear Cable company is advertising a pair of 12-foot “Anjou” audio cables for $7,250; that’s $302 a foot! And, as expected, “experts” were approached for their opinions on the performance of these wonders. Excerpts: …way better than anything I have heard…Simply put these are very danceable cables. Music playing through them results in the proverbial foot-tapping scene with the need or desire to get up and move. Great swing and pace – these cables smack that right on the nose big time. …simply way better than anything I have heard prior to their audition. Well, we at the JREF are willing to be shown that these “no-compromise” cables perform better than, say, the equivalent Monster cables. While Pear rattles on about “capacitance,” “inductance,” “skin effect,” “mechanical integrity” and “radio frequency interface,” – all real qualities and concerns, and adored by the hi-fi nut-cases – we naively believe that a product should be judged by its actual performance, not by qualities that can only be perceived by attentive dogs or by hi-tech instrumentation. That said, we offer the JREF million-dollar prize to – for example – Dave Clark, Editor of the audio review publication Positive Feedback Online, who provided the above rave review. If Mr. Clark should choose to apply for the prize, he would be unlike John Atkinson of Stereophile Magazine – see randi.org/jr/121004science.html#11 – who made great noises about being ready to snap up the million, then got distracted by things such as gullible readers who accepted his claimed abilities, and backed out. But we’ll see…

source: http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4


This by the way is from James Randi who I guess most of us have heard of...if not:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi

Also, this is for speaker cables, but then I would tend to think that speaker cables would have a higher impact on the SQ than the PC....

Another interesting link specifically on power cables

an ABX test involving power cables yielded 49% accuracy (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

superczar schrieb:

A new angle on the story:: Several readers alerted us to yet another hilarious and preposterous situation in the “audiophile” business, which we have referred to frequently simply because if some of their claims were true, they would be paranormal. Here’s another such. Monster Cable – a company that turns out a fine line of products, but not untinged with the woo-woo flavor, sells a set of $80 HDMI [High Definition Multimedia Interface] cables, designed to handle new signals brought about by the advent of High Definition TV. I thought that was a heavy price to be asking – no, I didn’t invest! – but now we see that the Pear Cable company is advertising a pair of 12-foot “Anjou” audio cables for $7,250; that’s $302 a foot! And, as expected, “experts” were approached for their opinions on the performance of these wonders. Excerpts: …way better than anything I have heard…Simply put these are very danceable cables. Music playing through them results in the proverbial foot-tapping scene with the need or desire to get up and move. Great swing and pace – these cables smack that right on the nose big time. …simply way better than anything I have heard prior to their audition. Well, we at the JREF are willing to be shown that these “no-compromise” cables perform better than, say, the equivalent Monster cables. While Pear rattles on about “capacitance,” “inductance,” “skin effect,” “mechanical integrity” and “radio frequency interface,” – all real qualities and concerns, and adored by the hi-fi nut-cases – we naively believe that a product should be judged by its actual performance, not by qualities that can only be perceived by attentive dogs or by hi-tech instrumentation. That said, we offer the JREF million-dollar prize to – for example – Dave Clark, Editor of the audio review publication Positive Feedback Online, who provided the above rave review. If Mr. Clark should choose to apply for the prize, he would be unlike John Atkinson of Stereophile Magazine – see randi.org/jr/121004science.html#11 – who made great noises about being ready to snap up the million, then got distracted by things such as gullible readers who accepted his claimed abilities, and backed out. But we’ll see… source: http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-09/092807reply.html#i4 This by the way is from James Randi who I guess most of us have heard of...if not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi Also, this is for speaker cables, but then I would tend to think that speaker cables would have a higher impact on the SQ than the PC....

Looks like you are *not* a proponent of power cables be they expensive or inexpensive?
Neither was I until I heard one in my friend's system & brought his PC back & listened to it in my system. the 2nd experiment that convinced me was swapping out the supposedly el-cheapo power cord that came stock with my preamp. Each time I swapped it out w/ some after-mkt power cord the sound got worse! It showed me that all power cords on the market were not made the same & that power cords do affect the sound.
Now, you do need to fix other things in your system if you want to zero in on the effects of the power cord. Things like component & rack damping, vibration control, AC power quality, RFI/EMI, static charge, in-wall wiring, etc. Otherwise, you are unlikely to reap any/few benefits from a PC change.
Despite all of this, you are still free to believe what you want to re. power cables.
I agree that there is a *lot* of hype in the market & you need to judge for yourself AFTER LISTENING preferably in your own system!
Don't post links here of other people's reviews & dribble & make that a basis for your argument that power cords are worthless! The press might be correct; the press might be wrong w.r.t. your system. I.E. what the reviewers/press write might OR might not apply to your system once you hear the effects of a power cord in your system.

Now, you did not say whether or not you have listened to power cords in your system AFTER you have tweaked your system. So, I've assumed that you have not. If I am wrong, do correct me.

Dear 'B'
The gentleman may not have done much on the power cord front;
I am not sure, I do not know him, nor have I visited his 'reference' set up, however, if I were to go by the picture he had posted, then it is self exp.
Please do take a look :-



You can see a Computer around & 'yellow' power cord extention & a 'multi plug' at the back, behind the laft speaker where all the components are plugged in. etc. etc.
Study the picture closely & you will find a lot of answers !!!

Your point of personal opinion is much appreciated. Magazine & Internet Sites, will write a lot, but you will never get the entire picture of what is going on.

Besides, differences can only be 'heard' after all other things are 'ironed out'

Now, you do need to fix other things in your system if you want to zero in on the effects of the power cord. Things like component & rack damping, vibration control, AC power quality, RFI/EMI, static charge, in-wall wiring, etc. Otherwise, you are unlikely to reap any/few benefits from a PC change.

If I may take off from what you stated, I too was never a PC subscriber. I did use PC's but nothing esoteric. ALl my PC's were under 350 euro's each. Nothing esoteric.
However, a 'change' to TAC - PLMM - was like a 'component upgrade'
Do drop home for a listen when you are around next - always nice to hang out with you !!!!

bombaywalla schrieb:

you guys were raving about that set-up in Chicago. what do you all think of this???? passion taken to the limit

Seen it earlier;
However, did not tickle me - I am not a HT fellow & he has used nothing I aspire for.
However, that R.T. room done by Rives with the gear in it, is to die for.

If you like HT, then this is a set up I liked a lot, for sheer execution i.e.

http://blog.audiovideointeriors.com/contemporary/1206mountain/

[a]

http://blog.audiovideointeriors.com/contemporary/106fortress/

[b]

Clean Work, all closed & WAF [wife acceptance factor] will be very very high.

But this is all HT. Installation based, not 2 Channel - I like that !!!!

superczar schrieb:

A new angle on the story::

we had had a discussion on this in the past in this forum..

there are many theories to PCs the most prominent being
- Zilch impact and is the biggest sham..cables which come with the component are good enough
-Impact is there..but little..may not be worth spending too much
-appreciable impact..although top of the line stuff is snake oil
-very prominent impact and higher end cables (not high cost) are very critical
-dont care about it but i need th most expensive one for my setup

Now i guess one can fall into any category..but that is a purely personal choice and can easily be argued on forever. but IMHO arguments do not matter..what matters is only what your ears feel and what you perceive as a value to you

You can see a Computer around & 'yellow' power cord extention & a 'multi plug' at the back, behind the laft speaker where all the components are plugged in. etc. etc.

OMG..If you indeed took the effort to find this pic, at least you should have reproduced it in full context (The pic is followed by the text that this is an old pic from the time I had just moved into a new house and this was just a temporary hookup)

And those who can indeed differentiate between PCs , why not write a quick note to James Randi's organization telling them you are willing to take up the $ 1 M challenge
I am sure $1M will get you the best of PCs

PS: Sorry if the above sounds a little harsh, but it wasn't I who started the mudslinging

Respected Sir [superczar],

I had no intent on 'slinging any mud';

Sorry if the above sounds a little harsh, but it wasn't I who started the mudslinging

However, if you were offended in any manner, I apologise !
I did not mean any offence. I do hope to grow and learn from this forum.

Thanks,

p.s. can you post a new - latest picture of your set up, I am keen to learn more about the 'mac mini' in your set up. Appreciate it !!!

Guess I felt that the picture I had posted was put here out of the context under which it was originally posted


Having said that, the logical side of my brain is somehow not allowing me to understand how & why a power cable will make a difference to the SQ

But I will leave the discussion as-is since I feel I cannot add any value to the discussion other than a sceptical POV


PS: As for the Mac, depending on the situation, it feeds a USB DAC that goes to a Marantz PM 17
or
it feeds an optical out to a Marantz SR6200 receiver that feeds the PM-17

superczar schrieb:

Having said that, the logical side of my brain is somehow not allowing me to understand how & why a power cable will make a difference to the SQ

Sir, if you will allow me some indulgance; Please.

Power Cables are like 'high octane fuels'

If one puts 93 / 97 octane petrol into a Maruti Alto / Zen and feels that a difference is performance will be noticed, one might be in for a surprise. In the process all 'high octane' fuels get a bad name !!!!

Basically, any Cable - PC or Interconnects or Speaker Cables will 'show' a difference only when the resolution level is taken very very high.
It is like a 100m race. Many athletes can run 100m under 11 seconds, but as you get to 10.1 and below the number of athletes that can do it drops and that too drastically.

I was in the same boat as you; Never belived in PC's
However, it is only when you do an A/B and a difference is heard, will you actually believe it.

Do come to Bombay, we will have a drink and listen, rather listen and then have a drink. Maybe I would be in a position to let you experiance the 'difference' if there is - any !!!!

I agree with the analogy Bhagwan-ji
but then the performance difference from usage of high octane fuel is easily noticeable even in a moderately capable car like a Cedia or even a Corsa..
also, it is fairly easy to explain why high octane fuel will result in improved performance, especially on engines that employ a higher than usual compression ratio


but my limited knowledge of electrical engineering fails to help me understand how a 1 ft cable that is in series with a much longer line would make a difference to the resultant output.

Also, if we even assume that it does make a difference, then wouldn't that point to some kind of flaw in the filtering stage of the amplifier power supply ?


PS: Mucho honored by the invitation Sir...Will look fwd to it if I do get a chance to come to Bombay in the near future

superczar schrieb:

but my limited knowledge of electrical engineering fails to help me understand how a 1 ft cable that is in series with a much longer line would make a difference to the resultant output.

from experience would suggest that you do not get into that..very often we dont get the results from the measurement because we are measuring the wrong things.
eg many years back people were talking of differences in digital cables although they were all measured correct...and how can there be tone differences in a digital signal. it is then that "Jitter" was discovered due to timing errors and threshold errors in digital signals. Now it is a much more obvious problem


i am neither a cable sceptic nor a cable proponent..but there is something here which we cannot perhaps explain with what we are measuring now and once discovered the whole explanation might just be very simple !

so just rely on what you hear... ! especially since cable discussions end nowhere

Arj schrieb:

superczar schrieb: but my limited knowledge of electrical engineering fails to help me understand how a 1 ft cable that is in series with a much longer line would make a difference to the resultant output. from experience would suggest that you do not get into that..very often we dont get the results from the measurement because we are measuring the wrong things. eg many years back people were talking of differences in digital cables although they were all measured correct...and how can there be tone differences in a digital signal. it is then that "Jitter" was discovered due to timing errors and threshold errors in digital signals. Now it is a much more obvious problem i am neither a cable sceptic nor a cable proponent..but there is something here which we cannot perhaps explain with what we are measuring now and once discovered the whole explanation might just be very simple ! so just rely on what you hear... ! especially since cable discussions end nowhere

nice..

bhagwan69 schrieb:

bombaywalla schrieb: you guys were raving about that set-up in Chicago. what do you all think of this???? passion taken to the limit Seen it earlier; However, did not tickle me - I am not a HT fellow & he has used nothing I aspire for. However, that R.T. room done by Rives with the gear in it, is to die for. If you like HT, then this is a set up I liked a lot, for sheer execution i.e. http://blog.audiovideointeriors.com/contemporary/1206mountain/ [a] http://blog.audiovideointeriors.com/contemporary/106fortress/ [b] Clean Work, all closed & WAF [wife acceptance factor] will be very very high. But this is all HT. Installation based, not 2 Channel - I like that !!!! :prost

Hello Bhagwan69,
thanks for the links. They are indeed well executed rooms & are more along the lines that I am used to seeing rather than the 360 thing. Indeed very nice WAF.

re. the Rives room w/ the Rockport, etc. If I make a trip to ORD, I'll pay them a visit.

so just rely on what you hear...

So true..but how do we ensure that what is being heard is really different and not a placebo?

Double blind tests by the Home Theatre hifi magazine returned a 49% accuracy (=100% guesswork)

And if someone is golden eared enough to hear a difference, Why not apply for the rather famous JREF challenge(James Randi Educational foundation)

(They now include a demonstratable ability to distinguish between basic Monster speaker wires and ultra high end Pear Anjou cables in a double blind test as a paranormal achievement :p I am sure they should be willing to include power cables in the mix too)

placebo..who can tell..but when in doubt dont upgrade..

DBTs have even proven that a $100 HT amp is no different from a $2000 mid fi amp (With the same 50% auccuracy). now whether anyone wants to accept the proof and follow it is ones own decision ..

..also james randi is supposed to be quite an "Item No" as well. there is a loong discussion in Audio asylum on the same topic and was also discussed here in the forum

some interesting reading on PCs here
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/ac-cords.htm this is a fantastic article..read at at least 3-4 times and you will learn something you missed the last time you read it... at least for me

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=82423

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=39000

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=97698

Sirs,

I am not recommending any power cables here;

All I am suggesting is to go and listen.
Simple.

Forget the DBT.
No one needs to prove anything to anyone.

Forget the Brand, forget the cost;

Just listen.

If you hear a differance, good, if you do not even better [you will remain richer] !!!

However, if you hear a change with the PLMM - God Help You !!
Cause, going back to non PLMM is very very difficult;
This happened to a friend and fellow audiophile of mine only 10 days back. Poor fellow is poorer by 4 PLMM's and he never believed in cables - speaker or interconnect for that matter !!!!

Arj schrieb:

placebo..who can tell..but when in doubt dont upgrade..

So correct you are;

I follow a very very simple rule.
Audition / Listen, if you hear a difference [a], then evaluate it [b], if the difference is more than 10 % then consider [c], if the change is 20 % [d], then buy for sure.

Before you guys pounce on me, yes, the 10 % - 20 % is personal, hence very very subjective.

All said, I do not think there must be any person there that wants to spend money & change a product if he cannot hear a difference. Money is very dear to all !! At least to me it is !!!

Arj schrieb:

some interesting reading on PCs here http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/ac-cords.htm this is a fantastic article..read at at least 3-4 times and you will learn something you missed the last time you read it... at least for me http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=82423 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=39000 http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=97698

Great Links - ARJ.

Interesting to read;
Thanks.

Dear Bombaywalla,

Hello !

What is ORD ?

re. the Rives room w/ the Rockport, etc. If I make a trip to ORD, I'll pay them a visit.

You must go and listen to that set up;
Take lots of pictures & surely post. I would love to know what you saw + heard + experianced.
Thanks,

p.s. All the best !!! I do hope you go....

bhagwan69 schrieb:

However, if you hear a change with the PLMM - God Help You !!

You better be right!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Dear Bombaywalla, Hello ! What is ORD ?

Bhagwan69,
ORD is the international airline code for Chicago O'Hare airport (just like Bombay is BOM). it was easier to write than Chicago!

Please do not keep your hopes too high re. this Convincing the boss that I should fly to Chicago just to listen to a mega $ system that is clearly out of my reach will be a hard sell! Any suggestions from the group at large as to what I could say to her that might convince her that I should make this trip?
(my business takes me to the West but never to the Mid-West so I cannot even club a biz visit w/ some pleasure! :()

msb1 schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb: However, if you hear a change with the PLMM - God Help You !! You better be right! ;)

You know that Bhagwan69's statement is conditional. The condition being that your system is able to resolve finer details of the music so that you can hear the mega impact of the TC PLMM PC!
Bhagwan's system is superbly tuned & the electronics are of very fine calibre. The cables are top-notch as well. So, the PLMM PC has a dramatic effect.
This does not apply universally to others' systems.
Just FYI. FWIW. IMHO.