single and ready to mingle - lyrita listening session

Steve, thanks a lot for arranging nice get together & I thank all the attendees too. Spl thanks for plenty of juices in that hot summer It was one wonderful evening.

Opinion about setup:
·It appears speakers need good break in & it’s better to sit for critical listening once it does atleast 100+hrs.
·Excellent mids & imaging. Highs were dull a bit.
·Bass was smooth/tuneful, usual valve character - punch was missing(may be I’m used to solid states)
·By experimenting with placement, you can avoid that slight boom in bass.
·Speakers need more breathing space. I feel it should’ve 1-1.5mtr radius space to perform well. They were close to sidewalls.
·Amp should‘ve been little more energetic for my tastes. I listen louder & never like a back ground music. Though it did well Café Blue, couldn’t handle the Sheffield drums disc. Drum shots didn’t come out satisfactorily even with full volume.

Steve finally - you’ve liked your setup & it’s according to your tastes & your rqmnt. Better you keep enjoying your music. Each individual would’ve, their own listening tastes & preferences, not to bother much about them & be a Musicphile


Sudarshan

Steve, had a great time at your place and learnt a lot from the more experienced folks of the forum...

As for the setup, I was surprised at the way the Harmony Ones performed especially on the bass side. Yeah, so they were lacking the slam factor but the response was very true. Mids were stupendous which, like the others have mentioned, are the forte of single-drivers. I have heard Viren's amps with the Sequel Refernce speakers, and to my ears, the Harmonies outshone them single-driverly

My take is, let the setup break in further, they would get better. Also, play around with the room setup. I think that is the most important factor you need to look into.

The fruit thief you mentioned stole pineapples (Pineapple Thief) and there was also the divine voice of Tanita Tikaram. Nietzsche and Abhi, let me know how she sounded in your setups.

Thanks for inviting us over, had a great evening. Would definitely want to drop in and check out your system again.

nietzsche schrieb:

1.Amp lacks – power and bottom end punch 2.Mid is well pronounced 3.Highs – rounded off

I suppose the lack of bass should not really be blamed on the amp..while a single driver speaker does many things very well, one area where it does not is in the extremes ie freq above 12-15k and bass below 50.. but again isnt that too much to ask of 1 driver ..

since freq above 15k are anyway not heard by most people (ie 30+)I guess the bass becomes imporant..perhaps a sub can be added ?

Placement and setup is critical when it comes to single driver speakers. I remember Prithvi telling me about Jacob George of Rethm audio spending almost half a day at his house trying to get the right placement for his creations.

one thing, muchas gracias to everyone who got their cd player/ cable/ interconnect over. though i think we missed out on soulforged's qed speaker cables in the melee

break in yes sudarshan. sigh. with the discman and my dvd player i hardly exercise the speakers. got a lot of time though to keep listening

punchy it's sure not. tuneful yes. bang on analysis.

regarding everyone having their own tastes yup. thats why i invited you guys to play around and position it the way you liked. but no point forcing my set up style on you right? imo the depth and imaging suffered a bit. didnt quite disapper.

you're right, i quite love the system. with my listening volume tastes it does just right. at higher volumes the room starts to become a problem so fortunately i escape that. was listening to janis joplin after you guys left, a studio take where even the part before she records is put down. her talking, tuning up... lovely 'you've been transported there' feel to it. her guitar was ethereal. ah!

viren. a real good system. now am waiting to downgrade to the 3 watt SET

We cannot say it's lack of bass, as I said it's the tubes characters. The SS's slam cannot be expected in tubes & one should get used to it. The bass was definitely tuneful. Things'll impove once it does about 100-200hrs. Sub will be too much for his room.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Did you guys get to hear the Koss KSC-75??

yes if thats the model that voodoo child got. a lot of detail, it did sound a little 'light' to me though. good value for 500 bucks! sits nice n light on the ears.

square_wave schrieb:

Placement and setup is critical when it comes to single driver speakers. I remember Prithvi telling me about Jacob George of Rethm audio spending almost half a day at his house trying to get the right placement for his creations.

very true. it took me a couple of weeks, going home everyday and tweaking them every other night. the one good thing is there's no driver integration factor so it makes things a little easier.

Hi Guys,

Let me go through whatever I found..& whatever I didn't find .
First things first, I got to Steve's place quite easily with all the super info given by him (though I'm quite familiar with the area where he resides). By the time I dropped in, everyone else were quite punctual and the session had already begun. Just a quick exchange of pleasantries and realized the faces (quite different than my imagination ) for the IDs I've known.

As soon I had the glimpse of the speakers...yummy...looked beautiful

I'd never seen a single driver speaker before, had imagined something of a bookshelf design or something weird which I can't explain, but never thought of the design as they are portrayed standing tall laced with wooden veneer. No wonder girls appreciate such beauties

Later observed the Valve amp, its real cute, with tiny lights, but the gold finished knobs could have been better.

I don't know what was the initial setup was, Jochen's CD was being played at that time. Some kind of jazz, never heard it before, was sounding ok...until Manek's power cord was connected. The track was played again and mids and bass improved significantly.

Can I have one Manek ?

ALS and abhi were the guys who were in charge of changing cords, connectors, players etc..Steve was busy serving snacks one after the other, I wish he could have just spent more time listening..Me being a newbie, was just listening, munching & watching it all happen

Tip: Next time, keep stuff ready on the table, whoever needs anything to munch/drink can can help themselves

Coming to the setup itself, Mids were the best part...superb tonality, highs lacked transients and bass is just enough for low/mid volumes. The setup sounds good at lower volume levels, but once its turned up a couple of notches, sound lacked details with highs absorbed and less bass extension. Guys opined that speakers needed more break-in period and suggested other improvements and placement changes.

Among the tracks I played, I loved listening to 'Drive' by REM (Abhi also gained few other things from the meet ..He was awakened on Alternative/Progressive Rock genres by Soulforged plus he got a copy of REM's 'Automatic for the People', courtesy - Nagaraj's laptop with a burner, luckily there was a blank CD on hand).

I later played 'Tears in Heaven - Eric Clapton Unplugged' and 'Riders on the storm - The Doors', both sounded good, but could have been better.

Among the tracks others played, I liked 'Remember US' - Pinapple Thief, which Soulforged had got, heard it for the first time and wow!..felt traces of Radiohead .
Kadri Gopalnath's fusion music was the best of the classical stuff played

Overall..for a 15W amp and a single driver, the System is a Revelation .
Congrats, Viren

Thanks Steve, for everything! I would definitely visit again...maybe once you get the connectors and a decent source, also setup your TT soon, would love to hear that as well

stevieboy schrieb:

Savyasaachi schrieb: Did you guys get to hear the Koss KSC-75?? yes if thats the model that voodoo child got. a lot of detail, it did sound a little 'light' to me though. good value for 500 bucks! sits nice n light on the ears.

Yes. It was Koss KSC-75. I hear it connected to my discman and NAD amp. With the discman it sounds good, but believe me...when connected to the NAD amp, it sounds amazing

Hi Steve,

Thanks again for your invitation. I had a good time with you guys. Would have liked to stay longer but unfortunbately had to leave early. I must really say that this system is pretty good for the price. I din't find the high too dull only a bit too harsh and sharp (I am used to something more mellow). Perhaps after a longer break-in it will smooth out. Try to get the CD with burn-in noise that I gave to Abhi. Perhaps he doesn't need it anymore now. I was realy surprised that the Fostex went up to these highs. Only once I could hear another single driver speaker made by Salabert and driven by Shindo amps, source was a Platine Verdier with SME 3012 and SPU Classic. So all real HighEnd stuff. The mids were real magic. Never heared such authentic solo piano and voices again. But the moment Rock was played on this system that was the end of the magic. Not so with Steve's system. True, boombass was too much. But lifting the speaker from the concrete floor (concrete resonates too much) with spikes or better spikes + absorber platform will do the job I guess. It will also bring the driver to ear level and the reflex port more away from the floor. I had the same problem with my Genesis speaker which I am using in Germany. When I bought them and placed them directly on the floor my neighbour immediatly came up shouting at me Spikes helped already a lot but the real good bass I got when I put granite slaps (2cms thick) on the carpet and on that the speakers with spikes. Immediately all boominess was gone. If you want I can bring two sand stone platforms along and we can try it out if it workes for you also. Sandstand or slate usually work wonders. But what will be definetly a must is that you replace the knobs under the speakers with good spikes. The knobs won't do the job of decoupleing.
But all together it's a real nice system that you bought. My advice before you spend money for cables do some room tuning and buy a good CDP or even better, get your turntable going. That's a real good piece that you got.

Thanks again for the nice afternoon.
Jochen

Voodoo_CHild schrieb:

Among the tracks others played, I liked 'Remember US' - Pinapple Thief, which Soulforged had got, heard it for the first time and wow!..felt traces of Radiohead .

Buddy, you (and the others too) are welcome to drop in anytime to check out some more similar music...

Hi guys,
Great to hear your experience with valve ad harmony, i really
missed that appourtinity to being with you guys gathered together, Its seems tempting, Next week i am going to dehli and shall visit viren for the audition.

goolimangala schrieb:

Hi Steve, True, boombass was too much. But lifting the speaker from the concrete floor (concrete resonates too much) with spikes or better spikes + absorber platform will do the job I guess. It will also bring the driver to ear level and the reflex port more away from the floor. But all together it's a real nice system that you bought. My advice before you spend money for cables do some room tuning and buy a good CDP or even better, get your turntable going. That's a real good piece that you got. Thanks again for the nice afternoon. Jochen

hi jochen,

will be calling you soon to see how the platforms do with the spikes. i have a gut feel it will improve things. wanted to put spikes but didnt know how so its a good thing you've got something suited for the job. the speaker is tilted back so the driver fires upwards to ear level.
will be doing the speaker base>turntable>rack for table>interconnects for turntable>room treatment>cd player in that order. the dvd player is fair enough for the time being but i need interconnects for it. thinking of entry level ecosse best boy.

regarding the burn in i'd prefer to let it happen naturally. prefer listening thanks for the tip though.

regards

Hi guys,

Glad that you got to hear the Lyrita amp and speakers at Steve's place. Thank you for all your comments - such feedback is most welcome!

Steve, thanks a lot for hosting so many friends, and having them listen to your system.

I hear what all of you are saying. The amp and speakers do involve compromises; I hope in the right direction. One thing I would like to stress - think of music as a whole. Did the listening convey to you the essence of the music you played?

Lots of comments on the bass response! That's one area where speakers interact heavily with the room. As Steve's already pointed out, he's played with the location of the speakers and found the best positioning for him. The other aspect is the damping, or control, that the amp exerts on the speaker. With the 15 watt valve Integre, it is poor. It's a small amp, and with its topology, bass damping is low. It becomes more evident when you play music loud. That's one area where valve amps can't compete with solid-state amps. However, I do find that valve amps give a more rounded bass, with more texture and body. Solid-state amps give a tighter bass all right, which can be very dry.

If you want to hear excellent bass on the Harmony One's, listen to the pairing of the Lyrita Monoblock's or the higher powered Integre I'm currently building.

I hear the grain in the sound from the Integre too. It's coming from the amp, not the speakers. When a circuit is down to bare essentials, the quality of every part counts even more. It's the coupling capacitor that's contributing to the grain. The capacitor is a good quality plastic film from CTR - obviously, not good enough! I experimented with imported aluminium foil/paper in oil capacitors, and, by golly, the grain disappears! But they cost an arm-and-a-leg! If a capacitor makes that much of a difference to the sound, why not eliminate it altogether. That's what I'm doing now with the new interstage transformers. They allow DC current in the primary to act as a load, and still couple to the power stage. No capacitor, no loading resistor! That's valve-interstage iron-valve-output iron. No caps in the direct signal path. Can't simplify it any further! What you gain is in transparency, dynamics, smoothness. The transformers are just getting ready, and will be retrofittable to all Lyrita valve amps.

For me too, audio has been a long, fruitful journey. Am still learning. Hope all of you are, too!

Viren.

Nice to see a manufacturer taking our comments seriously as well as in the right sense...

While we are still at it, I would want to put more things that came to my mind after the audition and after some prolonged analysis.
To me this system (Lyrita Valve + Harmony) has an extremely niche sound. Very different from what we usually hear, thats one reason I have a feeling that it would appeal to a niche section of AUDIOPHILES. The stress here is on Audiophiles because I seriously doubt a common man being able to appreciate this sound (unless there is an element of audiophile hidden inside him ). Audiophiles themselves are niche and when we talk about a niche subset among them, we are actually being too specific and thats what the sound from this setup is IMO.

The reason I said this:

The sound that this combo offers can be bettered if the speakers are partnered with a different amp or if the amp can be partnered with a different speaker IMO.

Because I feel the sound would be more generic (for better) if they are paired with a more conventional but well designed partner. IMO it would appeal to a larger section of audiophiles.

Viren wrote:

Did the listening convey to you the essence of the music you played?

No doubt Sir jee.. it conveyed & it was very much invloving. Some placement corrections were rqrd to fine-tune the bass if one likes to listen loudly.

If you want to hear excellent bass on the Harmony One's, listen to the pairing of the Lyrita Monoblock's or the higher powered Integre I'm currently building.

This is what besides me, Abhi & Nagaraj also opined while driving back home. Speakers 've more potential & more juice can be extracted by driving them either with a more powerful valve amp or with a good tuby character SS amp.

The setup was not just VFM, it's much more.... more ....than that...a very good HiFi

ALS schrieb:

This is what besides me, Abhi & Nagaraj also opined while driving back home. Speakers 've more potential & more juice can be extracted...

so the lichi and mango juice was not enough huh als?

when i upgrade to a 2-5 watt SET am pretty sure you're going to be running in the other direction!

stevieboy schrieb:

ALS schrieb: This is what besides me, Abhi & Nagaraj also opined while driving back home. Speakers 've more potential & more juice can be extracted... so the lichi and mango juice was not enough huh als? when i upgrade to a 2-5 watt SET am pretty sure you're going to be running in the other direction! :D

Steve,

I remember offering to get some 'Juices' to keep the 'Spirits' flowing, but you declined

so the lichi and mango juice was not enough huh als?

No. I like what comes from the speakers

when i upgrade to a 2-5 watt SET am pretty sure you're going to be running in the other direction!

I guess, you too will join me

viren schrieb:

Hi guys, One thing I would like to stress - think of music as a whole. Did the listening convey to you the essence of the music you played?

Essence was bang on . No complaints!

Best wishes on your journey forward

soulforged schrieb:

Voodoo_CHild schrieb: Among the tracks others played, I liked 'Remember US' - Pinapple Thief, which Soulforged had got, heard it for the first time and wow!..felt traces of Radiohead . Buddy, you (and the others too) are welcome to drop in anytime to check out some more similar music...

Thanks for the invite, I'm quite eager to drop in... maybe some weekend, will let you know.

Steve, once we tested with one DIY 3watts SET with Klipsch RF3s. Without any strain that SET drove RF3s to very loud level. RFs were 98db sensitivity & was gelling well with that. Eqmnts needs to be matched carefully.

Voodoo_CHild schrieb:

Steve, I remember offering to get some 'Juices' to keep the 'Spirits' flowing, but you declined :D

ah next time pot luck

Hello everyone,

Sorry about the belated post but let me add my thoughts here.

First, Steve thanks for the wonderful evening you made possible with the people, music, cookies and fruit juices! It was good meeting so many people under one roof especially since this is the first time I got to see some of you.

Viren, my compliments for putting together a great system at this price point both from the point of view of performance and the aesthetics. I particularly liked the design of the loudspeakers - very elegant.

How did it sound? Putting aside all the issues that everyone has discussed in this thread I personally liked what I heard at Steve's place. There was good music that was being put out by the system - no doubt about that.

This is the second time I have listened to a valve set up - the first one is something I may never be able to afford in this lifetime :-) [Cadence Canasya + Avita's + Jochen's living room ] and this is the second one. Both SS and valve setups have their merits and demerits and Saturday's experience added to my learning curve.

Voodoo_CHild schrieb:

Hi Guys, People', courtesy - Nagaraj's laptop with a burner, luckily there was a blank CD on hand). :prost

Just to clarify - that was not my laptop - it was Subba's.

Regards,
- Nagaraj

ALS schrieb:

Steve, once we tested with one DIY 3watts SET with Klipsch RF3s. Without any strain that SET drove RF3s to very loud level. RFs were 98db sensitivity & was gelling well with that. Eqmnts needs to be matched carefully.

is the diy SET available to listen to here in bangalore? would be an interesting listen.

Nagaraj schrieb:

Voodoo_CHild schrieb: Hi Guys, People', courtesy - Nagaraj's laptop with a burner, luckily there was a blank CD on hand). :prost Just to clarify - that was not my laptop - it was Subba's.

aahhh...lack of 'juices' did me in
apologies for the goof up

is the diy SET available to listen to here in bangalore? would be an interesting listen

Not sure whether that guy has it now, it was about 2yrs ago & I'm not in touch with him. But it was very interesting, for me that 3watts sounded like 100watts with Klipsch. Let me findout.

3 watts...wow !
My uncles Unision research S2K is a 15 watter KT88 based SET. Sounds good with his fostex horns. Thinking about foxtex horn tweeters with a first order factory recommended X-over.

Yes Manek, those 3watts stunned me. Though I'm not much used to valves, I'm leaning towards them slowly.

Let me enjoy my new baby Krell for some time

Hi,

Recalibrated my ears again, last night!

Heard a jazz group, the Dutch Jazz Quartet, with a female vocalist - tenor saxophone, grand piano, upright doublebass, drums, and human chops.

What I heard was exquisite music making - the deep sonority and growl of the tenor saxophone, the trill of notes and percussive playing of the grand piano, the foot-stomping rhythmic pluck of the doublebass, the feel of tautly struck skin and gentle shimmer of cymbals, the glory of the female voice soaring and then whispering. What I heard was harmony, the melody individually played and then together again, the voice scatting to the instruments. The music flowing.

I went home with happiness in my heart!

I want that happiness when I listen to music at home too. That's the sole reason for making all these audio components. It would be pointless if I couldn't achieve that!

Viren.

viren schrieb:

Hi, Recalibrated my ears again, last night!

very very nice statement..and how true. Mine desperately need servicing and a calibration as well.

viren schrieb:

Hi, Recalibrated my ears again, last night! Heard a jazz group, the Dutch Jazz Quartet, with a female vocalist - tenor saxophone, grand piano, upright doublebass, drums, and human chops. What I heard was exquisite music making - the deep sonority and growl of the tenor saxophone, the trill of notes and percussive playing of the grand piano, the foot-stomping rhythmic pluck of the doublebass, the feel of tautly struck skin and gentle shimmer of cymbals, the glory of the female voice soaring and then whispering. What I heard was harmony, the melody individually played and then together again, the voice scatting to the instruments. The music flowing. I went home with happiness in my heart! I want that happiness when I listen to music at home too. That's the sole reason for making all these audio components. It would be pointless if I couldn't achieve that! Viren.

Hi Viren !

Where did you hear this group? Any further performance lined up?