What do you look for in a loudspeaker?

Arj schrieb:

Hey Arj, I would love to raid your cupboard anyday It all in my iPOd these days a digital cupboard. hence my CDs do not get used and scratched Sometimes i feel we folks might we viewed as absolutely nuts by "Normal" folks..

Yup. Sad but true ! But I guess this is the same with anybody who are seriously devoted to anything. Try and listen to two golfers talking about their weekend game. Anybody not into it will go totally nuts. But I guess we don’t have to be apologetic about this. As any hobby, it gives us immense pleasure, so it is worth it.

I guess there are a few things we could do to make our fellow beings feel comfortable about us.

1. Avoid talking audio with anybody else other than enthusiasts unless somebody comes to us for advice. Even then we could try and gauge where they stand and advice accordingly.

2. If living with family who are not bothered about hi-quality sound, have a casual “fun music system” for the rest of the family somewhere accessible to all and let them play what they want and just enjoy it. After all it all about music. We can have a serious primary audiophile music system elsewhere in the house

3. Try and avoid making remarks about “ how bad the sound is” when you are with non-audiophile friends and family at the local theatre/pub/music show/cinema etc.. just try and enjoy the life at hand.

4. Avoid making fun of people who have atrocious sounding music systems. They will only get confused as it is not a priority for them. You will sound like an English professor I knew who always used to comment on the grammar and spelling mistakes he sees on hoardings and display boards. Expecting perfect sentences and wordings everywhere was such an obsession with him, people started laughing behind his back. Just comment how good the system sounds and you will gain a friend. But he may visit your house the next day and comment about the lack of “bass” and “Tizz” in your system Just smile and say you like your sound like that

5. Never divulge the actual price of your audio equipment to non-audiophiles

and if someone is the proud owner of a bose.. only comment should be "Oh a Bose.. cannot believe how small it is "

.. of course any comments on sound quality to be represented by a Monal Lisa smile

Disclaimer: Am a Bose owner Myself although for HT duties and honestly it is not as bad as it is made out to be. most people prove their entering into Audiophile-ity by bashing around the poor guy !!

Sorry Double post..

Arj schrieb:

most people prove their entering into Audiophile-ity by bashing around the poor guy !!

Thats true for any walk of life, you are an expert only if you can criticize someone or something.
"I don't like the chinese at the 5* joint"
"He is very week on the off side, not fit for an operner"
...blah blah...if you appreciate something and they'd think you don't know any better...

Guess we should follow the rules suggested by Square_wave and keep our conversations only to the folks who can appreciate it. Expecially the last point - DO NOT divulge the real price of your system to a non-audiophile. I'm currently learning it the hard way trying to explain to my colleagues why I spent so much on my music system. Would want to add another point:

Do not try to convert a non-enthusiast. Let him find out for himself...

My $.02

Am a Bose owner Myself although for HT duties and honestly it is not as bad as it is made out to be. most people prove their entering into Audiophile-ity by bashing around the poor guy !!

Yes it's not bad, but not too diffrent either from other low priced commercial brands...then why HYpe...So BOSE makes tall claims about sound and delivers nothing??right..I think entering into Audiophility by bashing BOSE is not wrong as it's the first step towards reality from tall claims made by BOSE, a company relied upon only fake marketing as well as marketing by those who own BOSE...Anyways I strongly feel any person entering Audiophility ( does this term exist )should be able to identify what he hears and what dealers claim...

How about putting it this way soulforged

"I don't like the chinese at the 5* joint"

If chinese is bad at the 5* joint it's bad..so no two opinions about it..

"He is very week on the off side, not fit for an operner"

If he's weak he is..again no opinions...

if you appreciate something and they'd think you don't know any better...

If you appreciate anything good, no matter what others feel at least leaves you with good feeling that you appreciated a genuine one..

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Yes it's not bad, but not too diffrent either from other low priced commercial brands...then why HYpe...So BOSE makes tall claims about sound and delivers nothing??right..I think entering into Audiophility by bashing BOSE is not wrong as it's the first step towards reality from tall claims made by BOSE, a company relied upon only fake marketing as well as marketing by those who own BOSE...Anyways I strongly feel any person entering Audiophility ( does this term exist )should be able to identify what he hears and what dealers claim...

I do not believe that I am actually defending a bose .. but yes it is definitely not as bad as the "other low priced commercial brands" and i mean the Boom boxes.

After i did not have my speakers due to the sale, i tried out the bose cubes with my setup.(I use an AM3 for fronts in my HT)

1. I found very good soundstaging
2. Clarity was very for Voices but not for lower tones in some instruments like the guitar
3. it sounded forward but not as much as the klipsch
4. The Bass was not very good.. but then being so small i rate them only as a bookshelf so it is ok
5. Sibilance is higher..but that can be defeated by tone controls
6. some "frequencies" seem missing.. i presume due to the integration issues between the bass module and the cubes.. but then they were also missing from my older but very nice sony "compo"
7. Midrange "purity" was not there and was not even as good as the klipsch..but the bose only cost 40%of that !!
8. sounded quite Boxy.. but then i should not have expected more from such a small speaker.

So to me they are OK. although not value for money from a pure sound quality.. but definitely from a point of view of the additional advantages of space taken as well as decoration value in the drawing room and brand value

But I think as has been mentioned in this forum in another post.. Bose is not and does not even claim to be an audiophile speaker

its jargon contains only about the clarity etc etc which any speakre manufacturer worth his salt would do.

They have found a market to sell and have produced a product for it and all their customers are happy. so I do not see them as doing anything wrong. And most people who crib about it , IMHO have not hear a well set up system.

Furthermore they were the pioneers in creating this tiny Sat + sub concept which every mid end "Audiophile " company seems to be copying.. from Klipsch to Mirage to tannoy and monitor audio.

They have not been at the cutting edge of tech as B&0 have been but perhaps they do not need to as majority of the "affluent middle class" still have that as their dream music system.. something which an Wharfedale or any other , inspite of their superior sonic qualities will not achieve !

And last but not the least, all those who say they are not willing to pay XXXX for a speaker that costs only y. should stop drinking coke since the "cost" of the materials runs in a few Rs

Finally I am not affiliated in any way to bose or its dealers and would not like to have it in my pure stere setup unless on gunpoint..an would reccomend a Wharfedale diamond anyway if someone askes me.. but again it is NOT as bad as most forums rant it is!

Sub Boss,

Drawing an analogy to the audiophiles, I am not takling about people who really know what they are talking about. I meant the shallow creatures who don't know a thing about a thing but try to pass off as experts by being critical or by repeating what they read/heard somewhere.

Like Arj says...in the end its all about the music

I do not believe that I am actually defending a bose

Please I never meant it.. I refer others who own it and just swear by them..and talking about gunpoint you dare challenge their wisdom and you are exiled forever hmm again nothing wrong there right..?? after all it's Dr.BOSe knows where there are freq humps in our ears and matched his speakers to them...

Finally I am not affiliated in any way to bose or its dealers and would not like to have it in my pure stere setup unless on gunpoint..an would reccomend a Wharfedale diamond anyway if someone askes me.. but again it is NOT as bad as most forums rant it is!

Thats very true not as bad as what others forums point out and not as good as it's owners talk about it too..

so I do not see them as doing anything wrong. And most people who crib about it , IMHO have not hear a well set up system.

I didn't quite get this point of yours..

Drawing an analogy to the audiophiles, I am not takling about people who really know what they are talking about. I meant the shallow creatures who don't know a thing about a thing but try to pass off as experts by being critical or by repeating what they read/heard somewhere.

Dear friend atleast people here are frank and give you on the face opinions but this analogy is very strong everywhere else..what say..good eg : your appraisal mamager

who don't know a thing about a thing but try to pass off as experts by being critical or by repeating what they read/heard somewhere

To add to this your level of expertise depends upon where you read and how much you understood from it or from whom you heard and the person who told you is equally imp...IMHO every one writes what they heard or read somwhere..but repeatedly is boring..

Hi guys,
I wish I'd seen this poll before I bought my speakers! My vote is for option 4.

Now you guys say that I need different loudspeakers for different types of music - no wonder that classical music fan mentioned in the forum got rid of all his other music :-)

Dear All
My two bit.It clearly depends on what your kick in life is.If you are playing the audio game then the new mantra is extreme resolution, huge transient capabilities and sheer believability.The flip side, there goes your music collection, as you will only end up listening to test discs and audiophile music which is quite alright if that is your trip in life.
Listening to music is another matter all together,wherein any loudspeaker has to balance natauralness,resolution and dynamics in given measures, enabling one to listen to entire albums even if the recording is a mid level commercial release.
Much as it may seem contradictory two type of listeners do exist as explained above and that is a fact which must be accepted. There is no wrong or right here, it is only what your hobby is, serious audio dabbling wherein audio is the means and the end, or audio as a means to and end which is music.
Regards Deaf.

Arj wrote :

They have found a market to sell and have produced a product for it and all their customers are happy. so I do not see them as doing anything wrong. And most people who crib about it , IMHO have not hear a well set up system.

Can you please explain this Arj??You mean people who crib about Bose have not heard a well set up system?? If thats what you mean then most crib about them here and does that mean they haven't........

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Can you please explain this Arj??You mean people who crib about Bose have not heard a well set up system?? If thats what you mean then most crib about them here and does that mean they haven't........ :?

I meant a well set Bose system . i did not mean it to come out the way it did

A well setup bose 901 or 301 actually sound much better than most speakers made by mass market Japanese loudspeaker manufacturers. That is what bose intended also. An up-grade over the typical mass-market speaker and there is a huge market out there for that segment. Rich brand conscious guys who wants to upgrade from their Japanese mass-market minicombo or separates. It is only when you start comparing them to audiophile grade stuff; the shortcomings of Bose become rather obvious.

It is only when you start comparing them to audiophile grade stuff; the shortcomings of Bose become rather obvious.

To add to this...hey Arj I actually enjoyed some fast pop numbers on a BOSE 901..Let me tell you the music is exciting so can't blame when many want it that way...heck if you are not too particular about sound and just want to show off to your friends BOSE is sure da way to go..

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

heck if you are not too particular about sound and just want to show off to your friends BOSE is sure da way to go..

And when money is overflowing from your undies as well...
!!!! You forgot to mention that Sub

Actually for many BOSE is their dream system (just like Benz is a dream car for many in India) just because its too expensive and out of the reach of most.

Actually the best Bose speaker system foe stereo is the Cinemate system.It sounds quite good, infact surprisingly good,if well set up,because it is a powered system and the amplifiers are surely designed to complement the speakers' shortcomings. It even comes with its own remote,so all you got to do is attach a source device.The damn thing costs only 25-26k.Do check it out as you will end up being plesantly surprised.
Regards Deaf.

abhi.pani schrieb:

And when money is overflowing from your undies as well... !!!! You forgot to mention that Sub

Well if you look at it a Good Audiophile system, sounds better but also costs a lot more than a Bose stereo system..

it is at entry level that they do not..but then that is Brand premium

Wharfedales sound good compared to a Bose but they very rarely will be a "Wow" factor..in fact a Sony or a Pioneer might evoke that.(And the cost of the whole system might be the same or even more than the bose)

but if you put in say a Quad based or a dyn based sytem.. it looks good may/maynot evoke the Wow again but sounds definitely superior

And the WoW also strikes the moment you look at their price tags. A okay sort of headphone QC2 costing 24000 bucks even made me say wowww. Cant say about Wharfdale but when I take friends to the Bose showroom and after that to the Sonodyne showroom (which is next to it) they definitely have a WOW listening to the Sonodyne....

You see most of the Bose products are priced beyond your imagination...you are right that there is a WOW factor in all the Bose products but once you hear the price its more like a dream....
Imagine a pair of computer speakers (without any sub) just two small speakers priced for Rs.10000....does that makes sense.

We people always talk about real hifi systems so we are accustomed with hearing such price tags but still when I visit a Bose showroom I get a chill when they tell me the prices.
Suddenly I feel that nothing is affordable from Bose....
May be thats the trick...

abhi.pani schrieb:

May be thats the trick... ;)

true, as most people in Marketing/Advertising would agree, perceived values is the single biggest factor when it comes to consumers.. not the cost of the product.

But the wow from the sound may be where the sonodyne scores.. but even if you do not play the Bose and just keep it in the drawing room, you will still get a wow. and even if you play it and the sound is again not that great you will still get a wow as most people (Not all people) feel that if they admit it was not great, it will look bad on them !!

so bose is not just about sound but a whole lot of other "feel good factors" as well.. as someone I know who has a B&O says.. even if you do not play it it still has Value which goes beyond sound.. of course even I ( as a bose owner) would not subsribe to "So much" of no sonic value, but folks have their own way of looking at things

I need an audio system, with a wow marketing babe that comes along with the system,FOC ofcourse.Must have wow large stereo subs too.Who cares about sound then,it is waaayyy beyond sound then.Methinks all forum members agree on this one aspect in what is important.
Regards Deaf

interesting discussion going on in AA on the same topic but a different angle.
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/vt.pl?f=speakers&m=223152

Very illuminating to see so many different perspectives..

Arj schrieb:

as most people (Not all people) feel that if they admit it was not great, it will look bad on them !!

..Now thats something I cant deny at all....atleast in India.

Arj wrote: as most people (Not all people) feel that if they admit it was not great, it will look bad on them !! ..Now thats something I cant deny at all....atleast in India.

heck it happens everywhere you just don't damn to comment coz either you don't want to sound rude or a mere mortal in an assumption that a guy who's paid a square price for BOSe does know more than you.. ..

Must have wow large stereo subs too

Deaf you look like a guy who has some good taste in life..friend anyways babe with two subs with ports is better!@!! right..

SubBoss,
Your name suggests that you truly are the expert on the right types of subs that matter in life .
Squeeze the subs away dude.
Mucho regards Deaf

Your name suggests that you truly are the expert on the right types of subs that matter in life

Ahhh me..ohh expert..ahh I will take that as a compliment.... and so far as your comment on squeezing is concerned you are downright pervertic there...looks like you are spending too much time on man made subs and missing on god made subs...

[quote="SUB_BOSS"][quote]Your name suggests that you truly are the expert on the right types of subs that matter in life [/quote]

Ahhh me..ohh expert..ahh I will take that as a compliment.... and so far as your comment on squeezing is concerned you are downright pervertic there...looks like you are spending too much time on man made subs and missing on god made subs... [/qu

Very evil dude,but not true .Anyways lets cut the topic before I get canned by someone.
Regards Deaf.

Anyways lets cut the topic before I get canned by someone

Not canned but stoned...anyways these discussions do make people aware of somethings...

My next topic is god made woofers, midranges, tweeters,horn loading?????..and finally ports

SUB_BOSS schrieb:

Anyways lets cut the topic before I get canned by someone Not canned but stoned...anyways these discussions do make people aware of somethings... My next topic is god made woofers, midranges, tweeters,horn loading?????..and finally ports :D

man..ur a riot!....ROFL

Ben quit grinning and check your PM.