Tube Pre Amplifier - Suggestions ! Top End.

Would you want to try a japanese Product ?
From what I have read the Air tight ATE-2001 is an Ultimate Preamp (although Phono)

Arj schrieb:

Would you want to try a japanese Product ? From what I have read the Air tight ATE-2001 is an Ultimate Preamp (although Phono)

I am open to all options;

Air Tight I have auditioned.

There are certain issues.

a] No Web Site. Who does 1 correspond with.

b] Heard it with Avant Garde & did not like.

But, keep the suggestions flowing.
I need ideas.

Thanks.

Wavac. I think Audire in Coimbatore deals in their gear. The quote I got from them on the SET amp was better than the US price. PM me if you want the contact information.

well then there are the CAT, the BAT preamps
Shindo you may not like.. but can give it a try
How about these usual suspects...
-VTL
-VAC
-Nagra
-Audio research Reference series
-aesthetix
-Cary SLP

jai1611 schrieb:

Wavac. I think Audire in Coimbatore deals in their gear. The quote I got from them on the SET amp was better than the US price. PM me if you want the contact information.

Thanks Jai !
Wavac is another option to consider.
I have heard the pre - a few times - never loved it.
Kharma was the speaker - if I remember correct.
But, imo Wavac is the 'best built' tube gear in the world. No 2 ways about that.

Arj schrieb:

well then there are the CAT, the BAT preamps Shindo you may not like.. but can give it a try How about these usual suspects... -VTL -VAC -Nagra -Audio research Reference series -aesthetix -Cary SLP

BAT is out - I cannot used Balanced - I love the REX, but my power amp is RCA.
CAT - Legend is a good pre - however Ken is a 'a** h***' to deal with, so I much rather pass...

VLT - 7.5 I like, cannot get my hand on it.
VAC, I find too slow. Heard it with Magico & Soulution.
Nagra is a good product - will consider.
Aesthetix is damn unreliable....
Cary - I do not like.

There are many. What is your sonic preference ? You know that tubes can have a wide range of sound signature, so you must be having some signature in your mind that you would like hear in your room. Kindly describe.

Instant Suggestions:

Symphonic Line "Der Erleuchtung Reference"
http://www.symphonic...nvorverstaerker.html

Einstein Audio : The Tube
http://www.einstein-audio.de/english/products/TheTube_eng.html

First Sound Audio: Paramount MKII Statement
http://www.firstsoundaudio.com/products.html

Shindo Labs: Peterus and Giscours
http://www.shindo-laboratory.co.jp/Front/indexe.html

abhi.pani schrieb:

There are many. What is your sonic preference ? You know that tubes can have a wide range of sound signature, so you must be having some signature in your mind that you would like hear in your room. Kindly describe. Instant Suggestions: Symphonic Line "Der Erleuchtung Reference" http://www.symphonic...nvorverstaerker.html First Sound Audio: Paramount MKII Statement http://www.firstsoundaudio.com/products.html

The product of interest to me was the First Sound.
However, there are 10 + options available & they confuse.
Besides, the prices are rather high.

The Symphonic Line - is a super product.
Rolf is a nice person.
I will consider this as an option - on a serious note.

Thanks,

Appreciate the suggestion...

abhi.pani schrieb:

There are many. What is your sonic preference ? You know that tubes can have a wide range of sound signature, so you must be having some signature in your mind that you would like hear in your room. Kindly describe.

Hello AP !
I would love to elaborate;
However, I have no idea.
I was & have been a pure SS Guy.
It is only after I started to use CC - Pune, that I want to go down the tube road.

To try and address the issues that you have raised, I have no answer. I do not have any idea of how any of these pre amplifiers will 'react' with the CC.
The only ones I have heard are Conrad Johnson & Audio Research & both are good, but none made me get up say 'I must have this' !!
Unfortunately, except for Wavac & Octave & Nagra & Jadis & Audio Research [I think] - none are represented in India & 'in house' auditions may not be possible.
So I will 'once again' be forced to buy blind or deaf - without an 'audition' !! Sad, but true...

Sorry, I think Einstein too exist in India.

edit = Einstein Audio addition...

bhagwan69 schrieb:

:) Hello All ! I need some suggestions for top end - tube pre amplifiers. I need it to match with the Cadence Canasya. If you all could suggest - options - it would be appreciated... Thanks, :hail

will you consider the Octave preamp that Switch_it_on has? Can you borrow that preamp & see how it sounds in your system? I've heard many good things about that preamp & it seems to be very highly regarded.

I 2nd the Symphonic Line "Der Erleuchtung" tube preamp. 14 tubes inside - you might be broke after you re-tube but you'll get superb sonics!

While Ken Stevens might be a jerk to deal with, IMHO, his preamp is worth it. Of course, my biased opinion.

what do you think of those mega-buck Audio-Note preamps such as the M6? I understand that they have killer sonics...

Best tube pres I have heard so far are Einstein The Tube (Abhi gave the link already),
Consequence Audio Syrinx S http://www.consequen...undlach6/index2.html
and
MalValve Preamp 4: http://www.malvalve.de/p1_6.html Unfortunately no english website available. But here are also some more nice pics of a complete MalValve system: http://my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=2216&page=142 from #1417 onwards.

goolimangala schrieb:

Best tube pres I have heard so far are Einstein The Tube (Abhi gave the link already), Consequence Audio Syrinx S http://www.consequen...undlach6/index2.html and MalValve Preamp 4: http://www.malvalve.de/p1_6.html Unfortunately no english website available. But here are also some more nice pics of a complete MalValve system: http://my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=2216&page=142 from #1417 onwards.

Thanks J !

Nice suggestions;

Would you have any idea of what the suggested retail prices are of these 3 products ? Line stage only - no phone..
Please.

I have never heard the Malvalve & Syrinx.
Can you shed some light on them ? Please..
Much appreciate it.

Vacuum State RTP3D

Allen Wright says its better than the Lyra Connoisseur!

Getting the 'right price' may be an issue, but you can try!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

goolimangala schrieb: Best tube pres I have heard so far are Einstein The Tube (Abhi gave the link already), Consequence Audio Syrinx S http://www.consequen...undlach6/index2.html and MalValve Preamp 4: http://www.malvalve.de/p1_6.html Unfortunately no english website available. But here are also some more nice pics of a complete MalValve system: http://my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=2216&page=142 from #1417 onwards. Thanks J ! Nice suggestions; Would you have any idea of what the suggested retail prices are of these 3 products ? Line stage only - no phone.. Please. I have never heard the Malvalve & Syrinx. Can you shed some light on them ? Please.. Much appreciate it.

All the three amps I have only heard in a complete chain of these manufacturers. They may sound different when combined with other power amps and sources.
Consequence Audio: got the impression of unlimited dynamics very coulourful (tube)sound but bass not as tight and powerful like Einstein. Price don't know but definetly very high like all CA amps. Palladium plated metals and root wood cabinets
MalValve: for a tube amp it's sounding rather neutral. Still quite warm tube sound but not as lean and clean like the typical SS amps. Price will be high because MV does not work with export prices. Concentrating on the German market only.
Einstein: for me the best sounding amp. Powerful and colourful highly resolving amp with tremendous dynamic reserves and the tightest bass I have ever heard. That's my reference. Price 9900 Euro.

Other amps you should consider is Brinkmann's Marconi http://www.brinkmann...cat=default&lang=en. Not really considered as a tube amp but also tubes inside. Very high resolution without sounding too thin. Price 8000 Euro.
And Acoustic Plan Sarod http://www.acousticplan.de/html/sarod_english.html . A very fine amp I was told by someone I can trust. But I have not yet heard it myself. Optically matching with the Canasyas if that is important for you. Price no idea. But Acoustic Plan is usually not cheap.

Regards,
Jochen

Edit: Palladium plated .....

The Acoustic Plan - retail prices are :-
Sarod Pre Amplifier
(Volume control with rotary switch, manual) 7300,-
(Volume control with relais, remote controlled) 8700,-
Option RIAA (Phono) 3050,-
Frontplate silver / black 160,-
Frontplate chrome 670,-
Tube set Line 610,-
Tube set Phono 250,-

This is an option to consider;
The Einstein too may be an option to consider...serious product.
Malvalve - I have never heard & not so sure.
The C.A. [from your description] sounds very exciting. I love 'coloured' sound. I am not running after 'flat & bland' neutral sound - that is why I left SS amps....

The A.P. I have heard - a few times, but can never say, since Claus only plays them with his Lowther based open open baffle speakers & I just cannot segregate the pre from the rest of the chain....

msb1 schrieb:

Vacuum State RTP3D Allen Wright says its better than the Lyra Connoisseur! Getting the 'right price' may be an issue, but you can try!

Yes;
This sota for sure.
However, I do not have a budget of 25/- K US & this is the best Phono Pre in the world & I need it to be a pure line stage - do not need a phono.
The cost is just too much. Gets not viable.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Yes; This sota for sure. However, I do not have a budget of 25/- K US & this is the best Phono Pre in the world & I need it to be a pure line stage - do not need a phono. The cost is just too much. Gets not viable.

Ask him if he'll build you one without the phono stage! You never know!!

merlin uses joule electra a lot and is supposed to be very good
http://www.joule-electra.com/products.htm

Arj schrieb:

merlin uses joule electra a lot and is supposed to be very good http://www.joule-electra.com/products.htm

sorry arj;
but I was never a JE fan...

bhagwan69 said:

Hello All ! I need some suggestions for top end - tube pre amplifiers. I need it to match with the Cadence Canasya. If you all could suggest - options - it would be appreciated... Thanks,

Interesting thread here, I have been out of town past few days, and feel compelled to post my opinionated ramblings ...

In almost 99% of the cases, I have felt that a (line stage) Pre Amp brings something to the palback, even if the source and power amps do not theoritically need an additional volume control.

However, when hearing the dCS Puccini CD player, it was one of those "Rarest of Rare " cases where a Pre Amp actually destroyed the sound and presentation of the Puccinni.

Since you are using the Top-Of-The-Line dCS stack, I wonder if a Pre will 'improve' the sound. It will almost certainly change it, though.

That leads me to my second point .... What change in sound are you looking for to your current sound ?

That could provide a pointer on whether Valve or SS will deliver the change....

Lots of nice suggestions on Pre amps, so I am going to post my opinionated ramblings in this (separate) post :

1. I have heard the VTL 7.5 Pre and loved it. However, it was in a (top notch) system that I was not familiar with.

This Hybrid Pre ( Valves for Voltage gain & Mostfets for Output stage) is technically fantastic, filling Both of its 2 large boxes, to the brim, with components, yet provides superb sound. My Dream Pre ... both as an audiophile and an engineer....

2.

Wavac is another option to consider. I have heard the pre - a few times - never loved it. Kharma was the speaker - if I remember correct. But, imo Wavac is the 'best built' tube gear in the world. No 2 ways about that.

I am not sure if I agree about it being the Best Built...

I have not heard any Wavac product but to the engineer in me, I think a more appropriate statement would be "the 'best Bull Shit' tube gear in the world.No 2 ways about that."

My opinion is based on Stereophile's review and measurements of the Wavac US $ 100,000 150Watt SET Power Amp.

On the test bench, I think it did not produce more than 10% of that power, that too with HUGE distortion. The review is(was) on the Stereophile website. No more to say for such a brand / company ..

Regarding the Vacuum State RTP3D Pre... Lots of Great reports on the net, and yes, it costs a BOMB.

Incidentally, bhagwan69, the audiophile friend that I introduced you to, some months ago, worked informally and closely with Allen Wright during development of this Pre amp ... particularly the Power Supply, which features VERY, VERY tight regulation.. ( Similar To VTL).

As msb1 says, I too think that you could get a Line Only version.

If you are interested in this pre, call me at your convenience, I may have an interesting option for you....

bhagwan69 schrieb:

:) Hello All ! I need some suggestions for top end - tube pre amplifiers. I need it to match with the Cadence Canasya. If you all could suggest - options - it would be appreciated... Thanks, :hail

Just curious - Why only a tube pre ..

I thought the input stage of Canasya was solid-state...so will the tube make any difference ?

(Well..in a way ...it does not really matter whether the input stage is tube or solid-state )

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I am not sure if I agree about it being the Best Built... I have not heard any Wavac product but to the engineer in me, I think a more appropriate statement would be "the 'best Bull Shit' tube gear in the world.No 2 ways about that." My opinion is based on Stereophile's review and measurements of the Wavac US $ 100,000 150Watt SET Power Amp. On the test bench, I think it did not produce more than 10% of that power, that too with HUGE distortion. The review is(was) on the Stereophile website. No more to say for such a brand / company ..

you, of course, know that measurement on the testbench does not necessarily equate to sonics in a 1:1 way. I do agree w/ you that an amp sooooo expensive did not measure well - the buyer would have expected atleast that much.

I Dont have a huge quarrel with measured specifications.

Lower than the promised fat content in milk is excusable, if the milk tasted good !

I find it particularly objectionable that a US $ 100K Power Amp delivers ONLY 10% OF THE PROMISED POWER.

I feel about that the same way if I got 100ml milk in a Pack labeled as 1 Litre.

I call that ROBBERY.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I feel about that the same way if I got 100ml milk in a Pack labeled as 1 Litre. I call that ROBBERY.

Interesting....

However, I need a suggestion for a pre amplifier..
please !

How about the Siltech Tube Pre? Battery powered. Supposed to be good but cant find any real reviews. You probably know more about it.

Bhagwan69, can you share with us, Your short list ?

msb1 schrieb:

How about the Siltech Tube Pre? Battery powered. Supposed to be good but cant find any real reviews. You probably know more about it.

Sir,
I have auditioned the Siltech Power Amplifier & I 'preferred' the Canasya to it.
The Siltech Pre - I have not heard, nor do I have any idea about it, hence cannot comment...
sorry

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Bhagwan69, can you share with us, Your short list ?

Hello AN !
I would love to, but I do not have 1.
I wanted 1 of 2 pre amplifiers & none of them look like they will happen.
1st is your dear friends pre - VSL - Swiss - 25K US is list.
2nd is a passive pre - Music First Audio - UK - 9K Pounds is list.

Both look 'absurd' in their price points;

Hence, the search goes on....

bhagwan69 schrieb:

2nd is a passive pre - Music First Audio - UK - 9K Pounds is list.

Even if you get it for an amazing price, the passive preamp will not give you the Golden glow sound of tubes...if you are looking for that.

Passives always take away some "vital" color from the sound and add a little more to the resolution and transparency in mids and highs. But I guess you dont need more of that since you already have a superb active preamp.

I have heard the MFA preamp at my place a couple of times now (though not the top the line model) and finally, I am convinced that I prefer my modest tube preamp simply because it is more organic and real sounding. The passive takes away some air and ambience that differentiates the sound of a real instrument from a synthesised one.
There was also a slight lack of drive in the passive.
All in all, I did not care about that little extra transparency, cleanliness and detail it brought with it.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I Dont have a huge quarrel with measured specifications. Lower than the promised fat content in milk is excusable, if the milk tasted good ! I find it particularly objectionable that a US $ 100K Power Amp delivers ONLY 10% OF THE PROMISED POWER. I feel about that the same way if I got 100ml milk in a Pack labeled as 1 Litre. I call that ROBBERY.

I'd have to agree with on this score!

Reimyo CAT777 !!

abhi.pani schrieb:

Reimyo CAT777 !!

Thanks A.P. !

However, I was never a lover to Reimyo sound.
I just found his DAC to be super VFM but his pre & power were not only too expensive, but not down my musical alley either !

bhagwan how about the top end Modwright?

Many of the pre amps mentioned here are fully balanced amps. I have a general question: does it make sense to spend so much more money for a fully balanced pre amplifier and combine it with a unbalanced power amp like the Canasya?

Regards,
Jochen

Would love to pit my Stacker 2 hybrid headphone/preamp against some of the big guns..I think it is one hell of a headphone amplifier and should do equally good in preamp duty.

Should try and haul it down to the local store and have a comparison between the stacker2 and something like the modwright.

Jochen said:

Many of the pre amps mentioned here are fully balanced amps. I have a general question: does it make sense to spend so much more money for a fully balanced pre amplifier and combine it with a unbalanced power amp like the Canasya?

Jochen, I tend to agree with you.

For more than 20 years, I have used an Unbalanced system, and as an engineer, it appears to me that a Balanced design is Un-necessarily extravagant in the use of active devices.

There are also some manufacturers like SPECTRAL who phoo-phoo balanced designs.

My personal experience has been mixed with most of the products that I have tried in my system, showing little difference when driven balanced or unbalanced. The different is certainly less that the contribution of an interconnect. Comparisions ofcourse require the same interconnets in Balanced and un-balanced configuration.

However, my CD player ( Electrocompaniet EC-1 UP) sounds distincly better from its balanced output, while my Pre ( AR LS26 ) and Power Amp Monoblocks (Gamut) seem happy enough either way ....

As a result, I now run my system completely balanced.

Savyasaachi

Would love to pit my Stacker 2 hybrid headphone/preamp against some of the big guns..I think it is one hell of a headphone amplifier and should do equally good in preamp duty. Should try and haul it down to the local store and have a comparison between the stacker2 and something like the modwright.

That would be interesting, and if you do compare, please post the results. I would certainly like to know.

I have always wondered why a lot of stuff that sounds good or even great on Headphones, does not sound so nice in a speaker set up.

A classic example of this is the ipod !

Any thoughts or views ?? Anyone ?

I too would like to know why stuff sounds better on headphones than in a system with speakers :-)


Kind of in that situation with my diy amp. :-)


Probably becuase one amplifies the signal a lot more through a power amp which brings out the nasties a lot more ?

Now where are all the guru's when you need them ? :-)
Just kidding guys....


Manek

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I have always wondered why a lot of stuff that sounds good or even great on Headphones, does not sound so nice in a speaker set up. A classic example of this is the ipod ! Any thoughts or views ?? Anyone ? :?

Amp_Nut, the iPod can sound very good in a dedicated 2-ch system using an iPod dock but not in its stock form (like you had it once upon a time) primarily due to the high jitter in the digital output. Lest you think that this is not possible there is plenty of written evidence on Audiogon where several people have achieved great success w/ its overall sonics. The sad part is that one needs to dump quite a bit of money into the modifications of the iPod dock (most of the time I've seen people dump more money than the retail price of the unit ) to get it to sound like it ought to. The main culprit is the (very) budget TI PCM27XX USB transceiver chipset that generates several nS of resulting jitter. For the USB transmission between the Wadia i170 iPod dock & an iPod, the jitter needs to be something like 0.1% of the data rate. That particular TI chipset does not meet this criteria.
Further, the iPod itself also needs to be modified. I've read of several mods depending on which generation of iPod. I believe that the 4th gen iPod has a very good stock DAC that basically needs sprucing up of its power supply. The 5th gen iPods do not have as good a DAC hence many modifiers bypass this DAC altogether & take the digital out from somewhere upstream directly to the 30-pin header. There are other iPod mods that I'm forgetting right now.
So, overall, quite a bit of monetary outlay but once you are done people tell me that the iPod sonics are really fantastic.
People also tell me that the Onkyo NS-1D iPod dock (not available in the USA as yet) is much better sounding in its stock form than the Wadia i170 & also less expensive.
On a headphone system the signals are much smaller & often the headphone impedances are also much higher 16 - 600 Ohms. Plus, the headphones have to move a miniscule amount of air to channel music into your ear canal. The physics of this are very different from a loudspeaker trying to fill the air of a 400 (or larger) sq. ft room. Thus, all the warts, moles, blemishes, etc will show up more clearly when a high jitter iPod signal tries to provide SOTA sound thru a loudspeaker.
Of course, just my opinion. YMMV.

Have you heard the Hovland Preamps? They seem to be pretty good.

Max

maxcoutinho schrieb:

Have you heard the Hovland Preamps? They seem to be pretty good. Max

Hello Max !
How are you ?
Been a while. Nice to see you back.

I have heard Hovland - many a times.
2 audiophiles in India had it, HP-100 in Mumbai & HP-200 in New Delhi.
It is a good pre - upper mid fi at best.
I was looking @ 'top end' stuff.
The HP-100 was replaced by a Allnic pre from Korea & it [the Allnic] was miles ahead...
I want a VSL / MFA @ 'cheap' [that is the problem] !
The 'search goes on' !!

[vsl = vaccum state logic] - 25 K US $'s
[mfa = music first audio] - 9 K Pounds

And I thought Hovland was pretty High End . Dare I ask the price of the Allnic Pre?

Another Pre that comes to mind is the Nagra. But that was long ago when I heard it in the US. Somewhere in 2004. It sounded pretty good but the room was BAD such a lot of boom that it made listening a task rather than pleasure.

I am doing fine just been out of touch with audio lately.

Max

maxcoutinho schrieb:

And I thought Hovland was pretty High End . Dare I ask the price of the Allnic Pre? Max

Hello Max !

The Allnic is made in Korea by Mr. K. S. Park.
Former Silberweld fame - German.
His gear is nice.
I like it.
List on the pre is 10 + K US $'s I think.

The Nagra is a good pre, but it is in the Audio Research league; So I had considered it, but have passed on the idea.
I will be in HK & Singapore in 2 weeks, will do some listening then.
Shall keep you informed..

Regards,

The Nagra is a good pre, but it is in the Audio Research league; So I had considered it, but have passed on the idea.

Couldnt get this statement. "Audio research league" as in ?
Price wise, sound wise, fidelity wise ?

Yes;
All 3.

It is 1 step lower than the top level.
B+ to A- level is where I would put it.

Then there is the A Level [Music First Audio] & finally the A+ level - Lyra & VSL. This is my classification.

Then there is the A Level [Music First Audio]

Not sure why and how you got to that rating. But for sure it will not fulfil your desire to get " Tube Pre Amplifier - Top End !". Unless you just want to own it for the sake of owning a top end passive, call it snob factor !! Functionally it is nowhere going by your requirements.
Sorry, I had to be blunt here .

Sir,
MFA - Ref is my 1st preferance for a pre;


I have heard the 2nd from the top model & it is super.
I cannot imagine how good the top line model would be.
The entry level - 1 K Pound - was @ home and played 80 % of my 15 K Euro GAD Pre.
I cannot manage a 'price' & hence I cannot get that pre.
It sure is my 1st choice....no 2 ways about it !

I recommend an audition & not that small box that you heard. I will try to listen to it in HK / Singapore next month if it is there @ Show or in a demo room. I really look forward to it..

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Sir, MFA - Ref is my 1st preferance for a pre; I have heard the 2nd from the top model & it is super. I cannot imagine how good the top line model would be. The entry level - 1 K Pound - was @ home and played 80 % of my 15 K Euro GAD Pre. I cannot manage a 'price' & hence I cannot get that pre. It sure is my 1st choice....no 2 ways about it ! I recommend an audition & not that small box that you heard. I will try to listen to it in HK / Singapore next month if it is there @ Show or in a demo room. I really look forward to it..

I have no doubts the top end MFA would be great but I am not sure where it fits in line with your initial requirement of a top end "tube" preamp .