Indian Dealer / Distributor - Audio Prices & Attitudes !!!

hey bhagwan! i thought you didnt want to argue

Screw the distributors is what i say.
cause that's what they end up doing to you.
Get your stuff from whereever you feel you can get it from in a safe and affordable way without going against the law.

If you indeed think that you have been around for quite a while in the Indian audio scence then you knowit first hand.
No service no backup.
Don't believe a word the so called distributors say.

When you are getting 100% and over in savings i wouldn't think twice about buying hifi or any toehr stuff for that matter regardless of the fact that they are available in India.

Dear Bhagwan,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion so you dont have to feel sorry for anything...

But, going through the archives on this forum I can see that the attitude / margins of Indian dealers has been discussed threadbare and is there for everyone to see...

I think you too agree to "crazy margins" prevailing. So, good for you to take up cudgels on behalf of the dealers even though you say you are not affiliated to them in any way, but, no, thanks we dont owe them anything. And, dude, God help those who think they are going to get a fair deal when they go to the typical Indian dealer with their malfunctioning imported purchase....

Indian_Duke schrieb:

Dear Bhagwan, You are certainly entitled to your opinion so you dont have to feel sorry for anything... But, going through the archives on this forum I can see that the attitude / margins of Indian dealers has been discussed threadbare and is there for everyone to see... I think you too agree to "crazy margins" prevailing. So, good for you to take up cudgels on behalf of the dealers even though you say you are not affiliated to them in any way, but, no, thanks we dont owe them anything. And, dude, God help those who think they are going to get a fair deal when they go to the typical Indian dealer with their malfunctioning imported purchase....

Dear Duke
It is unfair on your part to make a blanket statement like the one above,as it blakens the entire industry,including me.I would request you to please make more measured statements in the future as it hurts us commercial members.Thanks Deaf.

Manek schrieb:

not to forget ....the US retail prices have a decent margin on the products..... What indians must get is a distributor price+duties+local taxes+dealer margins kind of equation and not a retail price(US or Europe)+duties+local taxes+dealer margins manek.

I just carried forward the quote from the other thread....

You hit it on the nail Manek....getting a hifi gear at US retail prices is considered to be a real good DEAL here in India.
There are few dealers like ProFX and Cinebels who offer good service backup but they hardly offer any discounts (max 10%).....

Basically US retail prices are considered to be the best possible deal in India that too feels like a favour from the dealer.

newtohifi schrieb:

Screw the distributors is what i say. cause that's what they end up doing to you. Get your stuff from whereever you feel you can get it from in a safe and affordable way without going against the law. If you indeed think that you have been around for quite a while in the Indian audio scence then you knowit first hand. No service no backup. Don't believe a word the so called distributors say. When you are getting 100% and over in savings i wouldn't think twice about buying hifi or any toehr stuff for that matter regardless of the fact that they are available in India.

Dear Newtohifi
The distributors says screw you too,they dont need business from jerks who talk big and buy nothing from them anyways,and these same smart jacks, later take a high handed stand with distributors about international warranties when their foreign bought equipment goes bust.I have been here longer than you, and seen this shit more than you,from all angles possible,in the end I can tell you this much,that I have never backed out from warranty issuses ever.If I did then I wouldn't be in this industry this long.So please, the next time around watch what you say about other people.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Dear Newtohifi The distributors says screw you too,they dont need business from jerks who talk big and buy nothing from them anyways,and these same smart jacks, later take a high handed stand with distributors about international warranties when their foreign bought equipment goes bust.I have been here longer than you, and seen this shit more than you,from all angles possible,in the end I can tell you this much,that I have never backed out from warranty issuses ever.If I did then I wouldn't be in this industry this long.So please, the next time around watch what you say about other people. Regards Deaf.

What makes you think that i am obligated to buiy stuff from you or any other friggin 'distributor'.
I can wakl into any shop i want and check out what i want for as long as i want. If the bugger gives me lip then i head out of his place. i don't need to stick around listienig to some hotshot spewing all kinds of crap at me.

Also, what makes you think i even trust you buggers to come bring my busted equipment to you of all peapole . i am better off sending it back to the counrty where i bought it from and claiming warranty and service there.
at least i am assured of better quality than here and i am more than qualified to take care of my audio equipment if something goes wrong..thank you very much.

All we find here are a bunch of rip offs.

SO you mean to say that Onkyo, Pro Fx and others provide top notch service.If you feel so then, bully for you. AS a customer i know the hard facts and have experienced it first hand. One bitten twice shy..no way am i going to believe a word of what these distributors( be it you or anybody) claim or offer as 'service'. FAIK, these guys sweet talk till you buy something and ditch you faster than you can say D'oH .

These resellers and distributors are nothing but a bunch of low lifes,IMHO( a little sarcasm from my side to complement yours )

Hey guys... cool off a bit..
It's an issue of concern and deserves discusion with all seriousness (and maturity!).
In a 'flattened' global economy people will try and get a good deal on goods wherever they can find them..be it dubai or US of A.
The major issue is however the quality of service for the products should a problem arise...esp in Indian conditions.
I raised the issue several weeks ago and not surprisingly it received a very lukewarm response!
The unsettling fact is that servicing and after sales care is not in a healthy statein our country. There are many valued 'commercial' members in this forum (whose opinions have been helpful in sourcing the products). Perhaps they can set the trend by attending to this important issue. Customer care is the mantra these days and why should audiophiles (in India) be denied of it?!

newtohifi schrieb:

What makes you think that i am obligated to buiy stuff from you or any other friggin 'distributor'. I can wakl into any shop i want and check out what i want for as long as i want. If the bugger gives me lip then i head out of his place. i don't need to stick around listienig to some hotshot spewing all kinds of crap at me. Also, what makes you think i even trust you buggers to come bring my busted equipment to you of all peapole . i am better off sending it back to the counrty where i bought it from and claiming warranty and service there. at least i am assured of better quality than here and i am more than qualified to take care of my audio equipment if something goes wrong..thank you very much. All we find here are a bunch of rip offs. SO you mean to say that Onkyo, Pro Fx and others provide top notch service.If you feel so then, bully for you. AS a customer i know the hard facts and have experienced it first hand. One bitten twice shy..no way am i going to believe a word of what these distributors( be it you or anybody) claim or offer as 'service'. FAIK, these guys sweet talk till you buy something and ditch you faster than you can say D'oH . These resellers and distributors are nothing but a bunch of low lifes,IMHO( a little sarcasm from my side to complement yours )

Newtohifi,

I'm interested to know that how would you send your equipment back to the country you brought it from, I want to see that happen with our great system :D, in my current rig I haven’t brought anything from here besides the CD-Player for which Mr. Sushil is the dealer and the Jadis DA-7 (Sound Of Music)I'll honestly tell you I paid the right price for them a good fair deal but for the other stuff that’s available here well you can surely get a good deal happening, its imp for us also in some ways to see dealers make money out of this business as we get to see some really good stuff being imported here.

Mr Hamid (Sound Of Music), Hermit Audio, and the B&W guys sell some quality equipment over here with decent pricing as for matching the street price well not possible either which ways.

If for instance you pick up something at X street price in the US and if you get it in India in a lawful manner will you save significant money? I think not!!

I love hifi and want the industry to grow here that’s the only way it will mature I someday want so see all the high-end stuff here itself and not take trips abroad to listen to it, don’t you think it would be great if that happen the consumer would also have a lot to gain and have a larger exposure to what’s happening and be aware of all the jazz about higher end equipment.

Only after one listens to better equipment will one understand what high-end is I'm sure you have heard a lot of good systems but would'nt it be great if you could listen to it in your backyard.


Regards,

Satyam

It's demand and supply isn't it.

If and only if there were a bigger market for HiFi in this country...

Deaf,Sbfx,Bhagwan,I do completely understand that HiFi is not an easy business and that unit profitability is the only way to make any money, especially when you are selling such low volumes.

But you must also realise, as you probably do, that the largest chunk of the market will be at the bottom end.For crissake NAD will be the closest we get to Audiophile heaven if yu get the irony).

And since 30,40, 50 K are still large sums of INR,we will always try to get the best deal.

I love hifi and want the industry to grow here that’s the only way it will mature I someday want so see all the high-end stuff here itself and not take trips abroad to listen to it, don’t you think it would be great if that happen the consumer would also have a lot to gain and have a larger exposure to what’s happening and be aware of all the jazz about higher end equipment.

Hey Satyam I agree.But just remember this can only happen if there is real value on offer at the bottom end of the market.

Maybe somebody like Sonodyne/Norge/Sanan/Torvin , if they are really up to it, should take up the challenge

newtohifi schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Dear Newtohifi The distributors says screw you too,they dont need business from jerks who talk big and buy nothing from them anyways,and these same smart jacks, later take a high handed stand with distributors about international warranties when their foreign bought equipment goes bust.I have been here longer than you, and seen this shit more than you,from all angles possible,in the end I can tell you this much,that I have never backed out from warranty issuses ever.If I did then I wouldn't be in this industry this long.So please, the next time around watch what you say about other people. Regards Deaf. What makes you think that i am obligated to buiy stuff from you or any other friggin 'distributor'. I can wakl into any shop i want and check out what i want for as long as i want. If the bugger gives me lip then i head out of his place. i don't need to stick around listienig to some hotshot spewing all kinds of crap at me. Also, what makes you think i even trust you buggers to come bring my busted equipment to you of all peapole . i am better off sending it back to the counrty where i bought it from and claiming warranty and service there. at least i am assured of better quality than here and i am more than qualified to take care of my audio equipment if something goes wrong..thank you very much. All we find here are a bunch of rip offs. SO you mean to say that Onkyo, Pro Fx and others provide top notch service.If you feel so then, bully for you. AS a customer i know the hard facts and have experienced it first hand. One bitten twice shy..no way am i going to believe a word of what these distributors( be it you or anybody) claim or offer as 'service'. FAIK, these guys sweet talk till you buy something and ditch you faster than you can say D'oH . These resellers and distributors are nothing but a bunch of low lifes,IMHO( a little sarcasm from my side to complement yours )

Right Dude
IMHO guys like you are are known as KAFAB
Know All F**k All Bhikaris, who only talk ,ask too much ,buy nothing,and give US street price spchiel when it comes to spending money,as you said you walk out when asked to shell out dough.So I stick to my words,we do not need business from jerks,so go ahead buy whatever,from wherever,and please oblige us by not buying from us and giving your crappy IMHOs.
Regards Deaf.
P.S Dear moderators please forvige the language I have used, but it is the right of a commercial member to defend themselves against slander.

Krish schrieb:

It's demand and supply isn't it. If and only if there were a bigger market for HiFi in this country... Deaf,Sbfx,Bhagwan,I do completely understand that HiFi is not an easy business and that unit profitability is the only way to make any money, especially when you are selling such low volumes. But you must also realise, as you probably do, that the largest chunk of the market will be at the bottom end.For crissake NAD will be the closest we get to Audiophile heaven if yu get the irony). And since 30,40, 50 K are still large sums of INR,we will always try to get the best deal. I love hifi and want the industry to grow here that’s the only way it will mature I someday want so see all the high-end stuff here itself and not take trips abroad to listen to it, don’t you think it would be great if that happen the consumer would also have a lot to gain and have a larger exposure to what’s happening and be aware of all the jazz about higher end equipment. Hey Satyam I agree.But just remember this can only happen if there is real value on offer at the bottom end of the market. Maybe somebody like Sonodyne/Norge/Sanan/Torvin , if they are really up to it, should take up the challenge :prost

Hi Krish,

I absolutely agree that the majority of the market is at the bottom end infact this is true for any product line in any industry, we are value seeking consumers.

I honestly believe that Indians as consumers are the best negotiators and always want more for every Rs. spent.

I would love to see Sonodyne/Norge/Sanan/Torvin to take it to the other more mature Low-Fi and Mid-fi guys all around but it will take some time but I'm certain they will get there if they are conscious about quality.

I love the speakers of sonodyne for what they do at that price point, also think Cadence is sucsess story of High-End india some might say that the guy who owns it has bucket loads of money to play the game TRUE but one has to realize to sustain it is another thing when comparing to just starting it, I'm sure guy must have not sold much in his early days.

It makes me proud that a amp like the Canasya is made in my country I take great pride in that fact it BANGS the life of almost ALL amps (I mean really almost ALL) around the world.

Someday we would surely get there with products from the Low-End to Mid-Fi to give the same value as NAD and the likes, but at the same time I say give the local guys a try like bhagwan said go a little up and make them come down a little (we all have aspirations)


Regards,

Satyam

Looks like ur not doing so well in r buisness..Gamut ain't selling that much eh?
Why take it out on the forum.

If u introspect a little you will know that you are the real KAFAB.
know all fuck all bastard.

Sorry its my right to defend against profanity too.


I don't need some boor telling me how to spend my money.


After a lot of reading it seems the distributors(most of them) and especially you have brought in your aggressive type of marketing into this forum as well.
I see that you guys hammer on till the other person yields to your line of view/reasoning or just simply gets tired of the bullshit that you throw at them.

In sum, all i can say to scum like you is to SHOVE IT!

Give peace a chance, like John Lennon said in that song

Krish schrieb:

Give peace a chance, like John Lennon said in that song 8)

Hey Krish I like the concept man.But some joker even shot Lennon
Regards Deaf.

guys...last warning....cool off on the profanities
...or else....!!!!!

And I dont want to hear about who started it and who did not !

This is a public forum....behave yourselves !

Manek.

sbfx

It makes me proud that a amp like the Canasya is made in my country I take great pride in that fact it BANGS the life of almost ALL amps (I mean really almost ALL) around the world.

You bet, agree with you completely...its is a success story of sorts...and it is a great sounding amp !

I wish any Indian manufacturer all success in any of their local and gloal endeavours....

I really wish Indian manufacturers would form a consortium of sorts and take on the world ! We have the grey matter and now money in the market as well !

Manek.

deaf schrieb:

Dear Duke It is unfair on your part to make a blanket statement like the one above,as it blakens the entire industry,including me.I would request you to please make more measured statements in the future as it hurts us commercial members.Thanks Deaf.

Dear Deaf,

I reiterate I dont owe any thing to any commercial member on this forum, and especially one who stoops to profane language when rubbed the wrong way...

YOU seem to be the one who is totally bereft here and not those customers you address as Bhikaris who are only trying to get the best for their hard earned money.

You've given me some uncalled for advice above... now do me a favour and let me know the the name of your establishment so that I make sure I give you a very wide berth for all time to come...

deaf schrieb:

Right Dude IMHO guys like you are are known as KAFAB Know All F**k All Bhikaris, who only talk ,ask too much ,buy nothing,and give US street price spchiel when it comes to spending money,as you said you walk out when asked to shell out dough.So I stick to my words,we do not need business from jerks,so go ahead buy whatever,from wherever,and please oblige us by not buying from us and giving your crappy IMHOs. Regards Deaf. P.S Dear moderators please forvige the language I have used, but it is the right of a commercial member to defend themselves against slander.

Guys, Are these the dealers we were talking about encouraging in our country ????

This is one of the most common attitude here among the dealers, though there are exceptions.
This is actually the real colour behind the initial smiling face of these dealers. These people would cater to a customer only if he waves some dough to them else you are shooooooed!!!! Two things these people fail to understand. 1. A customer can turn into a POTENTIAL customer at any point of time. The fuel is always there, which can get ignited at anytime, even a good dealer can make it happen.

2. Everytime a customer visits a hifi store its not only the products he is evaluating but also the dealer is being evaluated (knowingly or unknowingly).

That is the reason that many a times the same product has different sales at different dealer points within the same city.....

I have seen dealers in hifi who feel they are doing a favour by giving an audition and its all there because they think they have a MONOPOLY.....
Man in this society its the CUSTOMER who have the MONOPOLY....rest everyone are dependants.
Those who cant digest this are not fit to be dealers and would not be encouraged either.

Dear AbhiPani,

Absolutely spot on.

I think forum members who have met Mr. Deaf should make known his identity so others get the choice of avoiding him, thereby protecting themselves from being addressed in a derogatory fashion...

Dear Members,
What amazes me is that it feels wonderful on all your part to belittle retailers ,distributors and the like because they try to work within a difficult system and still earn money.When the commercial member hits back when he is ridiculed,then he is a horrible person.I saw this being done with Prithvi and took up a stand for him,some members got upset.It turns out there is only one chap on this forum who is trouble and I know who he is,his various identities and self support through these identities. Dear members beware of this character as he is a number one cheat and fraud and has hurt nice people in the business and has tried to con me in the past.Hey american troublemaker, we members know who you are,so you are not fooling anyone.
Dear Manek in reply to your request,I have this to say,you should moderate such people who slander commercial members on the onset and not wait for the level to fall to where it has.I for one do not like to be called a rogue for no reason.
If somebody has a grevience with a dealer specify what it is and the commercial members will try to help,but no one has the right to call us cheats and the like for reasons not specified.If you do not like pricing don't buy ,but no calling us names, because when we do the same it is looked down upon.We are humans too and want to be treated with respect too.I did not see one memeber stand up for me when I objected to us being called cheats and when I hit back I become a criminal.You ask us for great pricing,when you can't support us morally for free,and then cry about the bad audio scene.I think the whole attitude is ridiculous.
Anyways it is a forum and it is your call.
Regards Deaf.
P.S To prove that I care more about the customer above profit,ask SBFX who recommended the Canasya above all tube amps in the world when he PM me,he will tell you it was me, and I have got nothing to gain from a Cadence sale financially.Infact I could have sold him an amplifier I have with me, but knew that was not what he was looking for and recommended the Cadence amp.

Deaf,
Even if you claim yourself to be a customer-caring dealer, the words you have used for customer is quite ugly. Because of dealers with mind like you, many customer hesitate to seek for an audition.

It is obvious the being in the industry for a few years, you know better than most of the novices, and you seem to boost that quite frequently in your posts. Pride is a part of the game, but its better be left untouched at least in a forum like this when you are commercial dealer.

Moreover there are customers who has plan to buy equipments in his/her budget. a) Some people take 7 days to complete a purchase, b) some people take 2 years to decide what they want and then they decide what is the best way to get it. I am sure from your post that the b) type of people are not welcome at your place. and then there are people who sincerely wish to buy a system but never quite manage to do it due to some other financial committments. I know it frustrates the dealer but it is not done when you express it in such horrible manner in a forum.

A customer will always want the best Value for his money, for that they should not earn the tag Bhikhari. It goes without saying everybody does not have lakhs of Rupees to spend on hi-fis...Bhikharis are those who want things for free. Did you ever give anything for free to these Bhikharis?

I presume, many of the expert audiofiles often audition equipments for the sake of the hobby and not really for buying. (There is nothing wrong in it, they often propagate sales by giving good reviews for good systems)...What do you call them Deaf, they also might ask a lot of questions and not buy a thing (themselves).

Indian_Duke schrieb:

Dear AbhiPani, Absolutely spot on. I think forum members who have met Mr. Deaf should make known his identity so others get the choice of avoiding him, thereby protecting themselves from being addressed in a derogatory fashion...

Right Indian Duke, or should reveal your identity instead,that will make it even more fun.I know who you are and canned you previously, twice,so you are not fooling me.
Deaf.

diskspinner schrieb:

Deaf, Even if you claim yourself to be a customer-caring dealer, the words you have used for customer is quite ugly. Because of dealers with mind like you, many customer hesitate to seek for an audition. It is obvious the being in the industry for a few years, you know better than most of the novices, and you seem to boost that quite frequently in your posts. Pride is a part of the game, but its better be left untouched at least in a forum like this when you are commercial dealer. Moreover there are customers who has plan to buy equipments in his/her budget. a) Some people take 7 days to complete a purchase, b) some people take 2 years to decide what they want and then they decide what is the best way to get it. I am sure from your post that the b) type of people are not welcome at your place. and then there are people who sincerely wish to buy a system but never quite manage to do it due to some other financial committments. I know it frustrates the dealer but it is not done when you express it in such horrible manner in a forum. A customer will always want the best Value for his money, for that they should not earn the tag Bhikhari. It goes without saying everybody does not have lakhs of Rupees to spend on hi-fis...Bhikharis are those who want things for free. Did you ever give anything for free to these Bhikharis? I presume, many of the expert audiofiles often audition equipments for the sake of the hobby and not really for buying. (There is nothing wrong in it, they often propagate sales by giving good reviews for good systems)...What do you call them Deaf, they also might ask a lot of questions and not buy a thing (themselves).

Dear Disk spinner the person who stared this is neither a customer nor is ever going to be one.I know who he is and I can assure you he is a trouble maker.A failed past distributor.He tried this as Dare Devil and tried to put Prithvi down,I messed him good.How about telling him not to call us commrercial members frauds needlessly instead of blaming me.Please go back to the posts and see who stated this before you get upset at me.
Regards Deaf.

And to Newtohifi and Indian_Duke...I am not going to praise you either for generalizing the attitude of dealer community...There are good D&D, at least I have seen some. I do not know whether they mask their attitude or things like that but there are dealers I can recommend to people. So please no more generalized attacks because it hurts good dealers also.

diskspinner schrieb:

And to Newtohifi and Indian_Duke...I am not going to praise you either for generalizing the attitude of dealer community...There are good D&D, at least I have seen some. I do not about whether they mask their attitude or things like that but there are dealers I can recommend to people. So please no more generalized attacks because it hurts good dealers also.

Thank you Sir
BTW they are the same person.If you see carefully he is logged on even now under his first true identity.Look carefully for that _ and the light is through.
Regards Deaf

See if somebody's doing it purposefully then mention it without getting dirty. I can guarantee you, it won't enhance the image of D&D if you guys hit back like that. Moreover this is web, so it is difficult to prove a point on who's who...

[quote="deaf]
How about telling him not to call us commrercial members frauds needlessly instead of blaming me.Regards Deaf.[/quote]

BTW, I posted the message directed to Newtohifi & Indian_Duke before reading your suggestion.

So please cool down, I believe this subject can be discussed in a better way.

I am getting scared of this forum now.. Is it some kind of espionage going on here. I recently joined this forum when I came back to india hoping I will get some good advise, but I am sorry to say that I am leaving this forum hence forth.
Regards

diskspinner schrieb:

I can guarantee you, it won't enhance the image of D&D if you guys hit back like that.

You are diskspinner......

Mr.Deaf,
Whether its a plot against you or just a natural thread getting rude, you are trapped...........

I dont even know you still I am saying that you are among those typical dealers in hifi who think they are the GODS..

You might be offering the best CUSTOMER SERVICE around but for that you need a CUSTOMER first but with your attitude I am sure would lose more customer than gain. If you dare just speak out your establishment and I can guarantee you that you would immediately lose a 50% of the potential customers from this forum itself......

You have said that you people do business under dificult situations so you need moral support........

As a reply....first of all who asked you to step into this difficult business.....not we customers right !!! It was your own decission and you got to withstand everything on your own and still provide the customers the best of the atmosphere to walk in...WHETHER THEY BUY OR NOT......its their rights.
If you cant do that then you are better off not defending yourself and other such dealers and rather join "DEALERS ONLY" forum.....

I think this is all getting a bit too much. Yes, I was witness to that ugly jsa_ind/DD vs Prithvi post too. And now this.

I kinda side with D & Ds here. They are here to do business. And profits are what one does business for.

Secondly, most of them (atleast the ones I've met here in Mumbai) are in the profession because of a passion for HiFi. They know what they're talking about. And no, I'd never exprienced anyone "trying to pull a fast one" on me.

There's this place in Kolkata called Fancy Market. Lots of grey stuff. Sort of like Heera Panna in Mumbai. That's where the guys just want to sell! They don't know shit about what they're selling. I've seen a Goldring TT being sold for 500 bucks there because it was "purana". The "dealers and distributors" you talk about aren't like this. They stock quality stuff, and they have every right to charge the price they think is right for that kind of quality.

Plus, I sense a lot of angst in the slander belted out at Deaf here. I think it's getting personal. newtohifi/Indian duke, if y'all have something personal against someone, take it outside. Don't screw up the goodwill of a public forum here. Just read khannadari's last post. Sheesh! ... people are getting the wrong idea!

Yes, maybe even I disagree with that "bhikari" bit too, but then, if you go through the history of this post, deaf has been incited. And this will aobviously lead to anger and sadly more slander.

Finally, newtohifi/duke, if you think you're being ripped off, just don't go the D/D who ripped you off. Nobody's forcing you to. I don't think you have any right to come on to a forum like ours and force your strong opinions down others throats. Just take a chill pill. If you don't like it, don't do it, I say!

Lets stop this mud slinging right here! Our Indian D & Ds are the ones who bring the stuff that's out there to us guys here. So they make a lil money cos' it's their business. As long as it's legal and availability of stuff in our country increases, my support goes all out to them!

P.S.: Where have all the other Commercial members gone? The reputation of your ilk is at stake guys. Defend it!

Shahrukh schrieb:

I think this is all getting a bit too much. Yes, I was witness to that ugly jsa_ind/DD vs Prithvi post too. And now this. I kinda side with D & Ds here. They are here to do business. And profits are what one does business for. Secondly, most of them (atleast the ones I've met here in Mumbai) are in the profession because of a passion for HiFi. They know what they're talking about. And no, I'd never exprienced anyone "trying to pull a fast one" on me. There's this place in Kolkata called Fancy Market. Lots of grey stuff. Sort of like Heera Panna in Mumbai. That's where the guys just want to sell! They don't know shit about what they're selling. I've seen a Goldring TT being sold for 500 bucks there because it was "purana". The "dealers and distributors" you talk about aren't like this. They stock quality stuff, and they have every right to charge the price they think is right for that kind of quality. Plus, I sense a lot of angst in the slander belted out at Deaf here. I think it's getting personal. newtohifi/Indian duke, if y'all have something personal against someone, take it outside. Don't screw up the goodwill of a public forum here. Just read khannadari's last post. Sheesh! ... people are getting the wrong idea! Yes, maybe even I disagree with that "bhikari" bit too, but then, if you go through the history of this post, deaf has been incited. And this will aobviously lead to anger and sadly more slander. Finally, newtohifi/duke, if you think you're being ripped off, just don't go the D/D who ripped you off. Nobody's forcing you to. I don't think you have any right to come on to a forum like ours and force your strong opinions down others throats. Just take a chill pill. If you don't like it, don't do it, I say! Lets stop this mud slinging right here! Our Indian D & Ds are the ones who bring the stuff that's out there to us guys here. So they make a lil money cos' it's their business. As long as it's legal and availability of stuff in our country increases, my support goes all out to them!

YOu my friend haven't been exposed to the ugly side of Indian distributors. I am sure if and when u are meted out to this kind of dubious and fallacious attitude you will forever change your mind.
Of course there are some very genuine dealers but there are many who take advantage of the fact that their product's availability is through them alone. Without naming names, i have borne witness to some of the distributors indulging in this kind of nefaroious activities and also been a target of such fradulent behaviour. They are registereed commercial members of this forum and the issue has been taken up against those individuls on more than one occasion by a few brave souls.

After reading some posts of Deaf's in other topics i see that he has always had a history of confrontations with many members for no reason whatsoever.
My intention was never to get personal. But, it seems that one distributor has made it so. I made generalisations cause i have'nt come across a half decent distributor in India.

abhi.pani schrieb:

diskspinner schrieb: I can guarantee you, it won't enhance the image of D&D if you guys hit back like that. You are diskspinner...... Mr.Deaf, Whether its a plot against you or just a natural thread getting rude, you are trapped........... I dont even know you still I am saying that you are among those typical dealers in hifi who think they are the GODS.. You might be offering the best CUSTOMER SERVICE around but for that you need a CUSTOMER first but with your attitude I am sure would lose more customer than gain. If you dare just speak out your establishment and I can guarantee you that you would immediately lose a 50% of the potential customers from this forum itself...... You have said that you people do business under dificult situations so you need moral support........ As a reply....first of all who asked you to step into this difficult business.....not we customers right !!! It was your own decission and you got to withstand everything on your own and still provide the customers the best of the atmosphere to walk in...WHETHER THEY BUY OR NOT......its their rights. If you cant do that then you are better off not defending yourself and other such dealers and rather join "DEALERS ONLY" forum.....

Dear
Abhi Pani
Whether you buy or not is not what the question is. I give demos to people even with full knowledge that they are not in the audio interest circle too,just to introduce them to this world.But being called ripoffs,cheats,conmen etc etc,just because we want to earn money legitimately,then I feel I have the right to call such people what I feel about them too, especially after courteously requesting Newtohifi not to make blanket statements,to which he got even more aggressive. Customers are not fools I agree,but neither are we.The D/D are finally here to do business too.If you dont want to buy cool,dont slander us for free,we are not your punching bags.Hope you agree with this at the least.I still have customers from 12-15 years ago who are happy for my progress,which I know would not be possible without their goodwill.Thanks for your input.
Regards Deaf.

newtohifi schrieb:

i have borne witness to some of the distributors indulging in this kind of nefaroious activities and also been a target of such fradulent behaviour. They are registereed commercial members of this forum and the issue has been taken up against those individuls on more than one occasion by a few brave souls.

My point? Take it outside!! Don't make a forum like this a platform to vent your frustrations.

We need more D & Ds in this country. More D & Ds means newer products/brands available to us. If this s*** continues... well... I don't see HiFi as a hobby growing here.

YOu my friend haven't been exposed to the ugly side of Indian distributors. I am sure if and when u are meted out to this kind of dubious and fallacious attitude you will forever change your mind.

You, my freind needn't tell me what I've been exposed or not exposed to. Every business has a different side to it. But to say that all Indian distributors are cheats is plain wrong! Even if you haven't "come across a half decent distributor in India", it doesn't give you the right to generalise.

I repeat myself when I say that I feel you have something against some people on this forum who are "commercial members". Stop polluting an educational forum like this with your problems. It's really not needed here!

So far I have gained nothing in this thread other than the fact that there is a lot of Distribitor Vs Distribitor fights on..

Manek could I sincerely suggest locking this thread?

And to the others not to respond anymore to this ? I doubt if anything will be resolved or any new points brought in.

And if threads like this continue I am not sure how many folks would really want to continue posting here !

WEll its clear who's side your on.
While its great that more brands are entering India what is deplorable is the evsted interests wiht which they are lauched and the way they are marketed.

By outside what do you mean..?
thisis outside for me.this is the open forum for me. an di have every right to air my views.
If it is bothering you so much tne as in a democracy you have every right to refrain from reading my posts.

I think you need to read the topic carefully before shooting at others opinions then.

The topic called for views and opinions, i have given mine you have given ours.
Its for you or me to take it or leave it.
simple as that.

Again you write before you read my post in its entirety. I have acknowledged that there are some genuine guys out there who are in teh business cause its what they live for. I am blessed to have 3 such guys as my good friends.
But also by personal experience, i opine that there are some unscrupolous guys of the worst kind on this forum who opt to con people and make a fast buck.

deaf schrieb:

Indian_Duke schrieb: Dear AbhiPani, Absolutely spot on. I think forum members who have met Mr. Deaf should make known his identity so others get the choice of avoiding him, thereby protecting themselves from being addressed in a derogatory fashion... Right Indian Duke, or should reveal your identity instead,that will make it even more fun.I know who you are and canned you previously, twice,so you are not fooling me. Deaf. :D

Deaf,

Stop talking crap. This is the first time I have ever addressed you so dont indulge in fancy delusions about knowing me and having canned me. If you really know who I am then why dont you go ahead and address me by the name you know me as...

On a general level I wouldnt care a hoot about your identity but, now knowing your proclivity to resorting to profanities when YOU get canned, the only reason I would like to know what little enterprise you run is to make sure I dont ever make the mistake of dealing with you.

And if you are a commercial member, then, like the other commercial members on the forum be a man and dont hide behind stupid masks.

newtohifi schrieb:

WEll its clear who's side your on.

I made that clear in my first post on this thread! I'm all for the Indian distributor! He's the guy who gives me what I want!

newtohifi schrieb:

By outside what do you mean..? thisis outside for me.this is the open forum for me. an di have every right to air my views. If it is bothering you so much tne as in a democracy you have every right to refrain from reading my posts. I think you need to read the topic carefully before shooting at others opinions then. The topic called for views and opinions, i have given mine you have given ours. Its for you or me to take it or leave it. simple as that.

By outside, I mean outside this forum. This is an open forum for discussing hi-fi. Specifically stereo. NOT personal slander from what looks like previous rivalry.

newtohifi schrieb:

Again you write before you read my post in its entirety. I have acknowledged that there are some genuine guys out there who are in teh business cause its what they live for. I am blessed to have 3 such guys as my good friends.

I'll answer this one by a quote from you yourself.

newtohifi schrieb:

I have'nt come across a half decent distributor in India.

I rest my case!

Must have made it clear.
These guys i know are not distribnutors.
They are small time hobbyists who choose to remain exculsive and everything is custom made.

there was no personal slander..the mud slinging began when deaf chose to make it one.

I know who deaf is but I don't have anything against him.

Arj schrieb:

So far I have gained nothing in this thread other than the fact that there is a lot of Distribitor Vs Distribitor fights on..

Wow! Are you implying that newtohifi and Indian Duke are distributors? I didn't see that one. I assure you, I'm not one. Just a guy who is excited with hifi and loves to see newer brands coming to the country.

Arj schrieb:

Manek could I sincerely suggest locking this thread? And to the others not to respond anymore to this ? I doubt if anything will be resolved or any new points brought in. And if threads like this continue I am not sure how many folks would really want to continue posting here !

I agree whole heartedly! There's no good coming out of this. This is my last post on this thread. Don't let a few rotten apples spoil the reputation of our forum. And khanmadari, come back dude. Not everyone here is like this!

In this wonderful yuletide season I shall not join this ‘bash-the-dealer’ festivity although I have personally been ‘shoooood’ away by quite a few.

Having said, that this is patently wrong to tar each D/D with same brush. You have bad cases everywhere. To be fair to Deaf-jee, I have found his postings informative without being patronizing. I don’t know him, but I doubt he can be nasty in person.

Another grouse that was expressed elsewhere that you need prior appointment for audition at a DD. For frigin’ sake of-course it will!!! Just imagine the chaos if all those newly affluent call-centre kids land up at the local ‘odiofile’ D/D at the same time; and after a boisterous session ask for a BOSE system. I think D/D’s in India face this everyday.

Newtohifi-jee and Indian_Duke-jee

There was ABSOLUTELY no need to bring in such language. Dudes, you two started this one. Nobody here will condone Deaf-jee’s retort following your starting salvoes, but I guess a guy have every means at his disposal to respond in kind. Deaf-jee is not required to do a Gandh-jee act. You are aware of the dynamic of the Indian HiFi retailing. So you very well know under what situation the D/D function. If you need clarity then please refer to the excellent points made by sbfx-jee, Krish-jee and Shahrukh-jee above.

The D/D is here to make a living notwithstanding his professed ‘passion’ for music. So lets be realistic. Be nice to him- you don’t have to suck up. He has limited time and he will only allot that if you look promising.

Khanmadari-jee

You saar, present the most amazing logic onleee
Would you consider jumping out of an aeroplane if a few co-passengers started a heated debate?

Arj-jee

We all love a good fight. Don’t we

Deaf-jee

Please don't mind but some of your bretherns are real suckers. However, you don’t need to be apologetic. Go ahead a reveal your identity. If you have had satisfied customers in the past, then I see no reasons why that number would not increase in future.


A D/D plays an important role in the chain whether we like it or not. I am no great admirer of the D/D. My grumble is against our system where a genuine business has to pay X times as import duty+taxes etc. Once we have a realistic tariff regime, then the volumes will increase and thereafter, hopefully, the Indian ‘odiofile’ will get a better deal.

Guys, the grouse is not just about the price.
It is also about the whole experience.
i hjave been to places were they look down upon you as some guy who can't afford even the cables that are used to connect the speakers to the amp.

Its better not to talk about service backup. There ain't any. The handling of a customer's order is the worst in ProFX. At least mine was.
By far the best atmosphere i had while auditioing a system was the Jamo showroom.
The guys are genuileny interested and don't mind if yoiu hang around all day wihtout commiting to buy their product(incase ur wondering,no i did not buy their product)

Then there are people who just take you for a ride.
whoever can justify a price increase of 5k when the same product is available exactly 5 km away from his main supplier.
When confronted with this he claims that he gives better service and hence the increase in price. what do you say to this?
mindboggling isn't it?

When this thread started, I thought it would be informative without been vindictive or personal. I had hoped that good and bad experiences would be shared which in turn would reward the good D/D and publicise the unhelpful practices of the bad D/D.

However seeing the way, the thread has progressed, i suddenly started feeling nostalgic about the good ole Saas-bahu soaps.

Anyways, here's my two bit.

Haven't really had much of an exposure outside of Chennai. And I am a very recent entrant into the audio scene. However when I first started off, I managed to bag myself an Onkyo HT with Yamaha AVR. A while back when my AVR's IR gave way, the shop(Spencer superstore) where I purchased it from repaired it free of cost(warranty was valid so no favours done) without asking any questions or even the bill. The manager recognised me and did the repairs.

Also purchased a few stuff from Corrsons -Siva and he was also very prompt. I had ordered for a couple of Inductors which they mistakenly used elsewhere but managed to desolder. When i received the two, they looked untouched but they were frank enough to let me know the truth and had offered to take them back if i didn't want them.

Haven't had any pleasant experiences at Audio ppl. They seem to evaluate and grade you before suggesting. If you happen to ask for anything else that "they" feel is beyond you then most likely he will appear busy preparing a bill without looking at you while answering you indicating that its time for you to move on.

Another very interesting experience that I had concerned the 2nd hand market in Chennai. One place i went to had a Carver CM-1090 holographic power amp that he offered for 7.5K. Since i was happy with my NAD i declined. Later i got to know that he sent to a regular customer in Delhi. A little while back one of the forum member from Delhi was offering a used Carver power amp for 15K on this very forum. Don't know if it was the same one but on first impressions it seemed too much of a coincidence.

Arj schrieb:

So far I have gained nothing in this thread other than the fact that there is a lot of Distribitor Vs Distribitor fights on..

Did i overlook a couple of posts or did you see something that i did not?

AFAIK, only one 'distributor' has posted on this topic and that is deaf.

Could you please point out the other distributors?

khanmadari schrieb:

I am getting scared of this forum now.. Is it some kind of espionage going on here.

Hey khanmadari,
its like what i read in one of the post by a benknebi.
something about the stakes being low in online audio forums and the conflicts are of the worst kind.
couldn't agree with him more.

So don't worry about all this.
this kind of stuff is all too common in the world these days. more so in audio.
Doesn't mean you should feel scared and all together turn away from it. Don't be turned off by some posts that may turn out ugly.

Ronnie22 schrieb:

Also purchased a few stuff from Corrsons -Siva and he was also very prompt. I had ordered for a couple of Inductors which they mistakenly used elsewhere but managed to desolder. When i received the two, they looked untouched but they were frank enough to let me know the truth and had offered to take them back if i didn't want them.

Purchased a few things from corrson myself.
simply put some of the stuff is sold for a ridiculous price.
for instance , the grill lock and roller is sold for 45 bucks each!
Now there's a ripoff if there ever was one.
They ahd one which they sold for 5 bucks but that was the cheapest looking stuff that i ever laid my eyes on.
However, after a lot of runnign around was able to track down the same thing for a mere 5 bucks.

The demo too left a bit of a bitter feeling. Almost felt like they didn't want me there.
Their products are pretty good(although a bit pricey), although the experiecen left me wanting.
The guy(not Siva) there did not have any clue whatsoever about Stereo. Finally, a lady had to come over and demo the system . That too was very restricted and i was rushed through the demo.
Lot of room for improvement though.

newtohifi schrieb:

Did i overlook a couple of posts or did you see something that i did not? AFAIK, only one 'distributor' has posted on this topic and that is deaf. Could you please point out the other distributors?

God dont know why I am answering this one
But I dont know , and quite honestly dont really give a damn !

AFAIK, All folks slugging it out here are nameless, faceless entities with only a nickname to their credit and it is in no way going to change my personal views on either Distributors/ Dealers in India or anywhere else on this planet as I have had my own experiences with them.. in the end I deal with Individuals and not a community of businessmen and know enough of whom to trust and whom not to

What I also really do know is who gives valuable advice/ knowledge in this forum and also whose posts i wouldnt touch with a bargepole (Think Gigantic proportions here) as there is scarce info but enough "trollwork"

And I do not have to take any names here .. I am sure everyone knows the above.

newtohifi,as a genuine disclaimer, I am only referring to your Post and have no idea about you as you are new here hence am not referring to you in any one of the above categories.

Ok Thats it..my ranting is over and this is My last post on this thread

Arj schrieb:

God dont know why I am answering this one But I dont know , and quite honestly dont really give a damn ! AFAIK, All folks slugging it out here are nameless, faceless entities with only a nickname to their credit and it is in no way going to change my personal views on either Distributors/ Dealers in India or anywhere else on this planet as I have had my own experiences with them.. in the end I deal with Individuals and not a community of businessmen and know enough of whom to trust and whom not to What I also really do know is who gives valuable advice/ knowledge in this forum and also whose posts i wouldnt touch with a bargepole (Think Gigantic proportions here) as there is scarce info but enough "trollwork" And I do not have to take any names here .. I am sure everyone knows the above. newtohifi,as a genuine disclaimer, I am only referring to your Post and have no idea about you as you are new here hence am not referring to you in any one of the above categories. Ok Thats it..my ranting is over and this is My last post on this thread

am really confused right now.
seems like there is a lot of history here for you to say something like that.
Thanks for your input Arj.
Lot more reading of the archives to be done i guess, for me to know what exactly is the potential of this forum. Many forums out there, only difference being that his forum has been the only one with many Indians on board.

It might even be possible that here all members are Indians.

Good to see so many enthusisatic people. Thought that audio serious audio in India was dead. Remmeber that in the 80s audio was huge. The kind of products we got then were simply superb.

screamgigi schrieb:

In this wonderful yuletide season I shall not join this ‘bash-the-dealer’ festivity although I have personally been ‘shoooood’ away by quite a few. Having said, that this is patently wrong to tar each D/D with same brush. You have bad cases everywhere. To be fair to Deaf-jee, I have found his postings informative without being patronizing. I don’t know him, but I doubt he can be nasty in person. Another grouse that was expressed elsewhere that you need prior appointment for audition at a DD. For frigin’ sake of-course it will!!! Just imagine the chaos if all those newly affluent call-centre kids land up at the local ‘odiofile’ D/D at the same time; and after a boisterous session ask for a BOSE system. I think D/D’s in India face this everyday. Newtohifi-jee and Indian_Duke-jee There was ABSOLUTELY no need to bring in such language. Dudes, you two started this one. Nobody here will condone Deaf-jee’s retort following your starting salvoes, but I guess a guy have every means at his disposal to respond in kind. Deaf-jee is not required to do a Gandh-jee act. You are aware of the dynamic of the Indian HiFi retailing. So you very well know under what situation the D/D function. If you need clarity then please refer to the excellent points made by sbfx-jee, Krish-jee and Shahrukh-jee above. The D/D is here to make a living notwithstanding his professed ‘passion’ for music. So lets be realistic. Be nice to him- you don’t have to suck up. He has limited time and he will only allot that if you look promising. Khanmadari-jee You saar, present the most amazing logic onleee Would you consider jumping out of an aeroplane if a few co-passengers started a heated debate? Arj-jee We all love a good fight. Don’t we Deaf-jee Please don't mind but some of your bretherns are real suckers. However, you don’t need to be apologetic. Go ahead a reveal your identity. If you have had satisfied customers in the past, then I see no reasons why that number would not increase in future. A D/D plays an important role in the chain whether we like it or not. I am no great admirer of the D/D. My grumble is against our system where a genuine business has to pay X times as import duty+taxes etc. Once we have a realistic tariff regime, then the volumes will increase and thereafter, hopefully, the Indian ‘odiofile’ will get a better deal.

Thank you Sir
This kind of support can only come from a technically enlightened person.
I hope we can meet someday and have a great listening session.
Regards Deaf