Indian Dealer / Distributor - Audio Prices & Attitudes !!!

deaf schrieb:

....a technically enlightened person.

But Deaf-jee my technology domain stopped evolving in 50’s. So quite a laggard here

Shri Viren has quite nicely put things in perspective. HiFi retailing is difficult business in India. By the time a customer actually walks in for a demo, the D/D has had his hands full with the myriad procedure and hurdles. Lets recognise that and applaud the person who actually still has the ball to bring that NAD to you. Is it unfair if he looks for an adequate profit margin in return? I guess not.

Dear members,

It's quite interesting to see the variety of responses received, and would certainly like to reply.

At the outset, I have no connection whatsoever with the jsa-ind/Dd/Prithvi ruckus. I do not know who jsa is. I do not also know who deaf is. I got in because I found another member exhorting people to buy from local dealers at a higher price and not from neighbouring Dubai or Singapore where one can pick up low/mid end products for as much as half of the price prevaling in India. I found this rather funny and said so. This member then started this particular thread and invited members to share their views, which I did. As I have said I do not know who deaf is. I wouldnt even want to know further but having read his outbursts I now know what he really stands for and therefore I would like to avoid him like the plague. Nowhere in my postings have I crossed the limits of decency. I have had the fortune of living in various countries, and even now my business requires me to travel extensively, so I have personally dealt with dealers abroad on many a occasion. I have also dealt with quite a few dealers in India and in the majority of cases found their attitude wanting. I have merely expressed this in my postings above. What is wrong with that? If you go through the archives you will find practically everybody, including the moderator Manek bemoaning this very fact. So what slander are we talking about? I have not targeted anyone here, just responded to deaf, so where is the question of inciting him?

Scream-jee I hope I have addressed your replies.

Deaf, I have no idea about the way you conduct your business but looking at your insinuations about me being jsa, you must thank your lucky stars you have not chosen to be a detective...you would be a total disaster....

viren schrieb:

Please give Indian dealers their due. They are giving you genuine services. Viren.

Very well put Viren.

Apart from the fact the import duties, taxes/VAT are higher in our country, there is one more important fact that affected the pricing in Indian markets, espectially for budget priced end-product like amplifiers and CD players.

For finished electronics such as amplifiers, the manufacturers price to the dealers/distributors are based on quantities that are order in one-shot. Many of our friends audition the items at a local dealer and then buy the items from Singapore. So do you think Indian dealers have the "guts" to import same quantities as his Singapore counterpart !!.

This is a vicious cycle. Its only when Indian customer and dealers start to trust each other, we can really have the kind of pricing that we see in Singapore (regardless of the import duty)

This is a thread that takes us in the opposite direction. Manek, its time you intervened.

Cheers
Siva.

newtohifi schrieb:

However, after a lot of runnign around was able to track down the same thing for a mere 5 bucks.

Mr. Newtohifi,

Please consider this as an purchase order for 1000 numbers of the grill guides that you have bought @ Rs.5, which is equivalent to the imported grill guide that we sell at Rs.45. (We would love to communicate with you directly, but we do not know who you are)

We will be very happy to purchase the same from you, instead of taking the trouble of importing them.

Infact this is one of our best selling items, so we are very keen to get them.

We do hope to hear from you soon..

Cheers
Siva.

deaf schrieb:

Dear Members, What amazes me is that it feels wonderful on all your part to belittle retailers ,distributors and the like because they try to work within a difficult system and still earn money.When the commercial member hits back when he is ridiculed,then he is a horrible person.I saw this being done with Prithvi and took up a stand for him,some members got upset.It turns out there is only one chap on this forum who is trouble and I know who he is,his various identities and self support through these identities. Dear members beware of this character as he is a number one cheat and fraud and has hurt nice people in the business and has tried to con me in the past.Hey american troublemaker, we members know who you are,so you are not fooling anyone. Dear Manek in reply to your request,I have this to say,you should moderate such people who slander commercial members on the onset and not wait for the level to fall to where it has.I for one do not like to be called a rogue for no reason. If somebody has a grevience with a dealer specify what it is and the commercial members will try to help,but no one has the right to call us cheats and the like for reasons not specified.If you do not like pricing don't buy ,but no calling us names, because when we do the same it is looked down upon.We are humans too and want to be treated with respect too.I did not see one memeber stand up for me when I objected to us being called cheats and when I hit back I become a criminal.You ask us for great pricing,when you can't support us morally for free,and then cry about the bad audio scene.I think the whole attitude is ridiculous. Anyways it is a forum and it is your call. Regards Deaf. P.S To prove that I care more about the customer above profit,ask SBFX who recommended the Canasya above all tube amps in the world when he PM me,he will tell you it was me, and I have got nothing to gain from a Cadence sale financially.Infact I could have sold him an amplifier I have with me, but knew that was not what he was looking for and recommended the Cadence amp.

Hi! Deaf,
Just back from Cochin where I met Jacob george (who incidently got INSIDE OUTSIDE DESIGNER OF THE YEAR 2005 AWARD for his architecture.

Seeing all this rubbish about we commercial members is crazy. I think people's mindset needs to change about dealers/distributors. Why do you people think that we commercial members are out to screw our very own customers and clients whom we depend on?

Even today I am proud to say that we have customers that come back to us even after 15-20 years. There are many of us who have been in this trade for more than 20 years & mind you we would not have been here still, if we cheated our customers. No one would come back to us.

I have kept quiet so long, now its time the other forum members hear our side of the truth. There are people on this forum, who have no other job but to spoil the name of we commercial members for no reason, nor do they have the guts to identify themselves.

First of all every client /dealer does not have to get along! There are some clients who get along with a dealer and some who dont. This is but natural. So if you dont like a particular DD then dont go to him. Period.

To all non commercial members, guys first of all as DEAF mentioned we DDs go through hell trying to import stuff into this country & not that our audiophile market is so big that we guys are making a killing. Our system is so bad and we still have to survive.

We like other distributors/dealers (DDs) of differnt products other than audio too have overheads and other headaches. Not to forget our wonderful sales tax guys who will not do a assessment if they are not given some bread.

In USA, & other countries a D/D works on anywhere from 100% to 55% dealer margins. Where as here in India a dealer gets anywhere from 10-20% max for all the hard work that he does & then we have customers who want discounts so in the end a DD makes about 10-15% max compared to his USA counterpart who makes a killing of 80-90%.

As deaf mentioned we have many guys who walk in hear the stuff, discuss prices and then the smart alec buys it from Dubai or Singapore. Atleast be open and say you are not going to buy it from a D/D.

Sadly unless our system improves and our import duties come down, things will not improve. Still if eveyone thinks that we D/D make a killing then pls open a HIFI show and you will see what I mean.

We D/D and clients have to have synergy and trust for the indian audiophile market to grow. Support your D/D and see how we indians take over the US of A in Audio. This cannot be done in a jiffy but will take a few years to happen. Just see the number of brands available today off the shelf, over 80 or more and still counting.

Rgds

Prithvi

sivat schrieb:

Mr. Newtohifi, Please consider this as an purchase order for 1000 numbers of the grill guides that you have bought @ Rs.5, which is equivalent to the imported grill guide that we sell at Rs.45. (We would love to communicate with you directly, but we do not know who you are) We will be very happy to purchase the same from you, instead of taking the trouble of importing them. Infact this is one of our best selling items, so we are very keen to get them. We do hope to hear from you soon.. Cheers Siva.

no offence to you Siva, but i am not at liberty to disclose my source to you.
However, if anyone is interested in them for personal use please PM me i will certainly help you out and will charge you 5 bucks a piece.
and no, i am in no way connected to the audio industry.

newtohifi schrieb:

no offence to you Siva, but i am not at liberty to disclose my source to you. However, if anyone is interested in them for personal use please PM me i will certainly help you out and will charge you 5 bucks a piece. and no, i am in no way connected to the audio industry.

Absolutely no offence taken...infact we are very glad to hear this piece of information. Do you think you are the only one worried about paying a higher price..

You do not have to reveal the source to us...you can yourself get us the grill guides. We will buy it from you. Infact we will increase our offer price by 50% to Rs.7.50 to you.

The only condition is that we will have test the items to ensure the plastic is of the same grade as the one used in imported item that we sell.


Cheers
Siva.

viren schrieb:

Hello all, All this name calling does absolutely no good. Especially when people hide behind a facade without revealing their real selves. Shows a certain amount of moral decrepitude. Freedom of expression comes with certain obligations - not to malign others. Those who sit on their moral high horses and criticize dealers - have you ever tried running a business in India? Let me alliterate: 1. Have you dealt with India's import/export policies, and the obscene duties charged - has a cost associated to it. 2. Have you rented prime commercial space for a showroom - has a huge cost associated with it. 3. You who demand an acoustically treated room for effective demonstrations - has a cost to it. 4. Maintaining an inventory of multiple expensive equipment - has a big capital cost to it. A few more overhead costs invisible to the consumer, and the low rate of equipment turnover, add up to an enormous burden. To run the business profitably, who do you think has to partly cover that? And you begrudge the enormous amount of effort to bring world-class audio equipment to you! Please give Indian dealers their due. They are giving you genuine services. Viren.

Dear Viren,
Very well put. Just wished our entire system would improve.
Rgds

Prithvi

Viren is a long time player and a gentleman.His views are to be respected.
Regards Deaf.

I will not be able to sell it to you since you are looking for comercial purposes.
however, if u are still interested i can mail you one piece for testing.

viren schrieb:

Hello all, All this name calling does absolutely no good. Especially when people hide behind a facade without revealing their real selves. Shows a certain amount of moral decrepitude. Freedom of expression comes with certain obligations - not to malign others. Those who sit on their moral high horses and criticize dealers - have you ever tried running a business in India? Let me alliterate: 1. Have you dealt with India's import/export policies, and the obscene duties charged - has a cost associated to it. 2. Have you rented prime commercial space for a showroom - has a huge cost associated with it. 3. You who demand an acoustically treated room for effective demonstrations - has a cost to it. 4. Maintaining an inventory of multiple expensive equipment - has a big capital cost to it. A few more overhead costs invisible to the consumer, and the low rate of equipment turnover, add up to an enormous burden. To run the business profitably, who do you think has to partly cover that? And you begrudge the enormous amount of effort to bring world-class audio equipment to you! Please give Indian dealers their due. They are giving you genuine services. Viren.

Hey Viren,
With all due respect to you,
i would just like to point out a few things.
These overhead costs such as audition room, inventory, commercial space are all common factors that showrooms all over the world face.

The only real difference being the import duties.
For instance, a person could buy a CD player at less than half the price in Dubai than it costs here.
The person selling in Dubai must also factor in all these overhead costs apart from keeping a tidy profit margin for him to survive when he sells.

i cannot subscribe to the notion that our taxes alone account for over 100% escalation of product price.
So, please, i would appreciate if any of you distributors could clarify where this money is really going.

I have nothing personal against any distributor.
I too would like to see amps worthy of beating the pants off the NAD or Rotel for a little more than half their present cost. It is possible. It is very much possble and will take time like Pirthvi pointed out.

I would like to state that i understand that you guys are in this business for a living and can readily accpet the fact that you will need to keep prices accordingly.

But, these factors are the same in most showrooms all over the world.
If i am mistaken in any of this, then plesae correct me.

Would appreciate if any of you could clarify this out for me and all other forum members.

Dubai
No import duty of 61% cumulative
No VAT of 12.5% on retail,which effectively will 45%-50%of FOB.
No income tax 33% .
Cumulatively we are over 140% of Dubai prices already.
See the reality dude.
The incidental cost of paying off government officials even when your operation is 100% legal,I won't even count.
As Viren says do the business and then talk.
Regards Deaf.

I would like to relate you members a story that took place 2 years ago.A gentleman once came asking for a X brand of amplifer retailing at USD 1800 and retailing in India for
INR 140000.He begins saying it is available in Dubai at
INR 62000-65000.I replied to him to go for it.He called for it and inclusive of all he boasted that it cost him INR 73000.
Good for him,2 months on his video processor card goes for a toss(he didn't know this),and the whole machine would not come out of standby.He now comes to me asking for warranty,I tell him please ask the dealer who sold it to you.He gives me big talk about international warranty for the product,and threatens to send a complain to the manufacturer against me.I said please go ahead and do so.The manufacturer said it is an out of territory sale illegally and I was not bound to service it.He went to the Dubai dealer with the problem.Those wonderful people over there say, who are you man,we don't know you,but you can send over the piece and we will look at it and give you an estimate.Now this chap knew he was in a mess,he came back to me and requested me nicely.I repaired the piece took INR 50000
just becuse he messed with me,kept INR 20000(parts cost plus labour and distress cost ).A month later gave him a call and returned INR 30000 and told him never to repeat this mistake.He ended up buying speakers from me costing
INR 150000.
Take this incident as you will,but be sure that even manufacturers do not like out of territory sales.
Regards Deaf.

Nice to see a lot of points brought out from both angles! (I chose to stay away from a part of the debate ). But I am still to convince myself when it comes to pricing of our own Indian products. Take Sonodyne for eg, they have a floor standing speaker for around 20-21K a pair. This is a price point where you can get a lot of "phirangi" brands. So when companies like Sonodyne etc. are sailing on same waters as for eg Wharefadale or Mission, then the first question arises is whether they are comparable in quality to the phirangi brands. I can swear by sonodyne anyday that they have done a phenomenal job in their products and they can beat the dust of many brands. But, if India can make cars,clothes,bikes,tv's (and code!) etc cheaper and at comparable qualities, then why not speakers/amps??
May be the answer is in volumes. I saw a sonodyne ad in AV-max about 6 months back saying 4000 genies sold...well I was disappointed...I am sure those guys in Bose would have sold more even if they were crap...
On the other hand if Sonodyne had sold a 100000 or even a half a million!, a lot of factors would have favoured the efficiency and the costs of the product...and so I believe they might have sold more if they priced it well. Had they been really successful (I'm not saying they arent... I mean something like a Maruti which makes others to take notice!) then other brands will think of setting up assembly units and offering products and naturally they would have come at competitive prices since costs will reduce. Now, because of the grey market and easy access to Singapore/Dubai... I dont think any company wants to even think of setting assembly plants here!

My comments are not essentially for high end audio since they are in a different territory where its a low volume market.

newtohifi schrieb:

I will not be able to sell it to you since you are looking for comercial purposes. however, if u are still interested i can mail you one piece for testing.

oh! i wonder what logic that is..

The last time we checked the market, the grade of the plastic that we needed was simply non-available in India, and could not manufacture a good quality grill guide locally....despite having an expensive "mould" for the same !!

But if someone is importing the grill guides and retailing them at the Rs.5....a lot of friends (both in India and abroad) would be very intrested..

You see, you've made quite a discovery.

Cheers
Siva.

this topic is a pure waste of time. no offence to you bhagwan. i mean the responses.

there is a basic lack of genuine customer service from sellers the world over. perhaps a bit more pronounced in india. its certainly not restricted to audio. which is why crm (customer relationship management) is so hot right now for all top companies who want to retain and grow their existing customers.

so all u guys who are thrashing audio dealers hey trust me they are already getting thrashed by potential customers going elsewhere to a friendlier dealer. when you find a good dealer, support him by recommending him to everyone you know. this will kill the bad dealers automatically since sales in the audio market is quite limited anyway and the existing sales will go to the good guy.

stevieboy schrieb:

this topic is a pure waste of time. no offence to you bhagwan. i mean the responses. there is a basic lack of genuine customer service from sellers the world over. perhaps a bit more pronounced in india. its certainly not restricted to audio. which is why crm (customer relationship management) is so hot right now for all top companies who want to retain and grow their existing customers. this will kill the bad dealers automatically since sales in the audio market is quite limited anyway and the existing sales will go to the good guy.

Sir, I started this thread simply because of what happened in the Sonodyne Thread. The discussion was drifting to dealer support & distributors etc. Hence, since that conversation was out of context, I started this thread.

However, if it is going 'off' as I too am begining to feel, the moderator should 'strike' off the entire thread from the forum. I shall be OK with it. No offence will be taken by me.

I started this thread so that people could express them selves & if there are commercial members around, they could get a chance to reciprocate back.

None the less, things did get a bit out of hand, I am sorry, I guess this was a 'Pandora's Box'.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

you know bhagwan the funny thing is a lot of potential buyers here could spend their time building rapports with dealers. i'm sure being part of a forum in a really small audio world in india will psychologically make forum members feel closer.

and if they have a rapport with a particular dealer, i'm sure the dealer will feel inclined to give him a special unofficial 'forum' discount. like prithvi offered forum members a discount on vibrapods.

this will give buyers here better deals and the dealer will get more business. works both ways. wish it happened that way instead of the way it turned out.

[quote="stevieboy"]you know bhagwan

and if they have a rapport with a particular dealer, i'm sure the dealer will feel inclined to give him a special unofficial 'forum' discount. like prithvi offered forum members a discount on vibrapods.


MRP for four Vibrapod Model 5 = Rs 2100/-
For forum members I am giving a 5% discount = Rs 1995/- for four. These are offically imported through UPS and import duty paid.

Check out www.vibrapod.com

Rgds

Prithvi

The M.S.R.P. on Vibra Poda is @ US $'s 6/- a piece.

http://www.vibrapod.com/vibrapod.htm

04 pcs = US $'s 24/- @ Rs. 47/- per US $'s = Rs. 1,128/-.
This is full US Retail Price.
His [Prithvi's] retail price is Rs. 2,100/-.
This is 46 % abve the US Retail Price.
So discount or no discount, I am afraid the maths just does not add up to me.

I am sorry !

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

I almost forgot to mention;

It is not about the Vibrapod nor is it about Prithvi or any one else, I am trying to address a larger issue, that is of the prices of products in India.

I am sure, most of the 'commercial members' are aware of how the prices work. Import Duties + Local Taxes etc.

Every person that is in this business is there to earn from it. He is not here for charitable reasons.

The question is if there should be a 'profit' motive or 'profiteering' ?

86 % over the US Retail may nor be justified in this case [Vibrapod]. If any person is a D/D of a product, he gets that product @ 'Export' or 'Trade' Price. There is a bit of margin that is kept to cover the 'customs duty + local tax' etc. Hence the local M.S.R.P. in India should be around the same as US Retail if not 10 % more, that is a reasonable price.

If a D / D keeps his price higher, then the India Consumer will sure be tempted to bring the product from Dubai or Singapore or where ever else.

Hence, we all need to be a bit responsible.

Let the Commercial Members [D/D] keep their products prices at prices that are 'good' & we as consumers should support them by buying from them & not going abroad & getting the goods.

Let us all try and work towards this, it will make all of us happy & the industry will grow & prosper & people will start buying Mid-Fi & Hi-Fi gear [hopefully] some day !!!

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

P.S. Prithvi, I am sorry for taking your example, it is just because Stevieboy got is us so I responded to it. This is nothing personal. I wish you all the best for Vibrapod & Linn & what ever else you sell.
Someday when ever I can buy some 'expensive gear' I will surely like to deal with / through you or Arun Prasad !!!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

I almost forgot to mention; It is not about the Vibrapod nor is it about Prithvi or any one else, I am trying to address a larger issue, that is of the prices of products in India. I am sure, most of the 'commercial members' are aware of how the prices work. Import Duties + Local Taxes etc. Every person that is in this business is there to earn from it. He is not here for charitable reasons. The question is if there should be a 'profit' motive or 'profiteering' ? 86 % over the US Retail may nor be justified in this case [Vibrapod]. If any person is a D/D of a product, he gets that product @ 'Export' or 'Trade' Price. There is a bit of margin that is kept to cover the 'customs duty + local tax' etc. Hence the local M.S.R.P. in India should be around the same as US Retail if not 10 % more, that is a reasonable price. If a D / D keeps his price higher, then the India Consumer will sure be tempted to bring the product from Dubai or Singapore or where ever else. Hence, we all need to be a bit responsible. Let the Commercial Members [D/D] keep their products prices at prices that are 'good' & we as consumers should support them by buying from them & not going abroad & getting the goods. Let us all try and work towards this, it will make all of us happy & the industry will grow & prosper & people will start buying Mid-Fi & Hi-Fi gear [hopefully] some day !!! Regards, BHAGWAN69 P.S. Prithvi, I am sorry for taking your example, it is just because Stevieboy got is us so I responded to it. This is nothing personal. I wish you all the best for Vibrapod & Linn & what ever else you sell. Someday when ever I can buy some 'expensive gear' I will surely like to deal with / through you or Arun Prasad !!!

Bhagwan,
Hi! Pls do not be sorry for taking my example. Actually its great, so that I can explain for our forum members.

First of all I do not get the vibrapods from the manufacturer, as he wants me to import 1000 pcs. Now you tell me, do you think it is worth my hard earned money to invest in 1000 pcs?

I get a good rate from him, if and only if I import in huge qtys. So other option is to buy from an online retailer who sells vibrapods. He gives me a 10% discount and I order about 20-30 vibrapods. He insists that they will only ship by UPS which is again very expensive and plus UPS prepays the import duty at Mumbai and then collects the same from me.

I worked out all the figures and that what the vibrapods will cost, keeping a basic 10% for myself is not a crime nor am I cheating someone. IF he does not approve my price then he/she can go ahead and buy from any online retailers. You also forget that we have a 12.5% VAT.

We as D/D too want to bring the prices down to atleast the same UK/USA retail price, if not then atleast 10% over UK/USA retail, if this happens then I am sure we can sell more audio products in India, not forgetting that our system to has to improve.

I am saying this in the interest for all audio products, not just LINN/PROAC etc. I think its high time we D/D have an organisation like BADA (BRITISH AUDIO DEALERS ASSOCIATION) and take our case to the Ministry to sort our issues out. Unless we D/D are united and put or case to our wonderful system, we cannot progress.

D/D & customers go together hand in hand. We are there to serve them and give them the best and they in turn to increase our business. LIke Viren mentioned, we need to change the system.

Siva very clearly mentioned the amount of stuff the SIngapore /Dubai dealers sell, we indian D./D are nothing. I have personally seen both places and the amount these guys import and stock is shocking, this is beacuse their system is far superior than ours and not to forget the import duties are very small. Good prices will surely increase the demand and sales. In any other trade too, you get a better pricing if you order more.

When I was working for an International Hi-End Audio Salon abroad, I remember the owner mentioning that he felt ashamed to place an order for two nos of a LINN UNIDISK 1.1, where as his counterpart from Japan placed an order for 30 pcs. Now the LINN UNIDISK 1.1 retails for about 6500 UK POUNDS. Not a cheap universal player at any standards. Now take the case of us in India. We might place a order, if only we have a customer for such a player. DO you think a D/D can afford to stock 5-10 pcs especially in India. I take this only as an example.

As another example, if say Designer Audio's Dilip Shah imports five 40 foot containers of WHARFEDALE, then can you imagine at what better price he can get the spks at and inturn he too can sell them at a much lower price, provided our system to is improved and duties/levies are lesss.

If we in India have such a system in place, then I am sure we D/D can even order in huge amounts and give fab prices on par with Singapore/Dubai to our customers. I still feel that its no use bitching or fighting weather this dealer or distributor is good or bad or whatever. Just support your D/D and see how things will change.

Just imagine if each and every customer decides that he will support his/her D/D and buy the products from India and not Singapore./Dubai, one thing for sure the grey market will die. Secondly each D/D will try and improve his set-up/service etc. He will invest more for better infrastructure as he knows business is improving.

IMHO these are my views. They are open to any discussions. Instead of we guys talking like crap, weather its a dealer, distributor or a client, we must make this forum a better place for up coming guys who are interested in this wonderful world of audio. We must try and get more members to join this forum.


Rgds

Prithvi

purely as an aside and to lighten up the mood, prithvi my man you ought to be arrested for openly selling something so patently 'adult' and kinky like a 'vibra'pod under the guise of audio improvement. methinks i should visit your establishment soon!

stevieboy schrieb:

purely, prithvi my man you ought to be arrested for openly selling something so patently 'adult' and kinky like a 'vibra'pod under the guise of audio improvement. :Y

I second that opinion.

This thread needs to liven up a bit !!!

Nice one 'stevieboy' !!

Regards

BHAGWAN69

And to top it Prithvi says "Vibra" pods reduces Vibration
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Prithvi schrieb:

Just imagine if each and every customer decides that he will support his/her D/D and buy the products from India and not Singapore./Dubai, one thing for sure the grey market will die. Secondly each D/D will try and improve his set-up/service etc. He will invest more for better infrastructure as he knows business is improving.

This is one of the most positive statements coming out in this discussion !

the dealer is a very important person and is an extension of the manufacturer and at the same time on side of the customer. If there were no dealers, there would be NO auditions/ Warranty.

Buying of the net or direct sales ( A La DELL) in very personal and subjective componets like Audio is definitely not recommended as personal reviews (Of the Audioreviex type) needs to be taken with a Huge chunk of salt..

We blame the dealer for promoting only choices he deals with. at the same time each one of us will promote the setup that we own as the best !

There are dealers who may be arrogant and act big for the boots but then there are many among us who will just drop in as we would do to buy a toothpaste and the first thing we will ask is the cost..not very good !

So there are faults on both sides and it is only by appreciating the position and the intentions of both sides that we can get something going here. perhaps this thread may have the effect of starting on those lines

Again if you go to the audio forums in Singapore there are enough threads ballming dealers there as well and suprisingly the comments you see here are just about the same as you see here.

In the end, there are good products/bad products; Good dealers/bad dealers; good customers/bad customers and good equipment/bad equipment ! (Just like Good people & Bad people !)
it is upto a forum like this which can to some extent help us in getting the best of all of the above !

Arj schrieb:

newtohifi schrieb: Did i overlook a couple of posts or did you see something that i did not? AFAIK, only one 'distributor' has posted on this topic and that is deaf. Could you please point out the other distributors? God dont know why I am answering this one But I dont know , and quite honestly dont really give a damn ! AFAIK, All folks slugging it out here are nameless, faceless entities with only a nickname to their credit and it is in no way going to change my personal views on either Distributors/ Dealers in India or anywhere else on this planet as I have had my own experiences with them.. in the end I deal with Individuals and not a community of businessmen and know enough of whom to trust and whom not to What I also really do know is who gives valuable advice/ knowledge in this forum and also whose posts i wouldnt touch with a bargepole (Think Gigantic proportions here) as there is scarce info but enough "trollwork" And I do not have to take any names here .. I am sure everyone knows the above. newtohifi,as a genuine disclaimer, I am only referring to your Post and have no idea about you as you are new here hence am not referring to you in any one of the above categories. Ok Thats it..my ranting is over and this is My last post on this thread

Hey Arj....look at the statements in bold !!!
(just joking dude.... )

I know Dude .. But suddenly this thread seems to have taken a turn towards being sensible .. and that is good

Got tempted finally...

sivat schrieb:

oh! i wonder what logic that is.. The last time we checked the market, the grade of the plastic that we needed was simply non-available in India, and could not manufacture a good quality grill guide locally....despite having an expensive "mould" for the same !! But if someone is importing the grill guides and retailing them at the Rs.5....a lot of friends (both in India and abroad) would be very intrested.. You see, you've made quite a discovery. Cheers Siva.

I will mail you a piece just to satisfy your curiosity and to prove you wrong.
In all probability i will see a response from you on this forum saying that the quality sucks.
Anyway, i think you can expect it by end of this week or early next week.

stevieboy schrieb:

purely as an aside and to lighten up the mood, prithvi my man you ought to be arrested for openly selling something so patently 'adult' and kinky like a 'vibra'pod under the guise of audio improvement. methinks i should visit your establishment soon! :Y

Hi!
You wont believe this I also sell something called KINKY, no I am not joking. God knows why LINN called this important tool the KINKY.The Kinky tool will give you the correct alignment between the arm location and the LP12 bearing centre Here is a picture of the great KINKY.



Vibra Hmmmmmmmmmm, might make more money selling vibrators than hifi, plus u get the good fortune of seeing all those beautiful women.

Hey deepug, these are the special kind of vibra/pods/ators etc.

Hmm now I wonder what a really really kinky vibrapod does

Innocent question

What is a ‘Vibrapod’ and what is so ‘kinky’ about it?

I can’t seem to get to the Vibrapod website. I am getting a firewall warning. Usually my daughter helps me in IT issues. But this one I wish to try myself

newtohifi schrieb:

I will mail you a piece just to satisfy your curiosity and to prove you wrong. In all probability i will see a response from you on this forum saying that the quality sucks. Anyway, i think you can expect it by end of this week or early next week.

No sir, i'm not as smart as you are - to judge a product by just looking at it.

We will see what happens when we hammer these guides into hole. I get to know the quality by seeing how much they deform when hammered...not by looking at it.

So you can come down and see it for yourself...and then you can yourself write about it on the forum again.



To all other forum members..

Request other forum members to forgive me for stretching this too long. No more posts on this topic, except the test result.

We can again get back to the intresting discussion on Vibra-pod. This seems to be a very lucrative business...maybe it can be imported from Amsterdam....and i'm sure the customers for this product will not complain about pricing

hi screamgigi,

its 'kinky' cos it increases the (listening) pleasure for you in the sweet spot.



wanna do an advertising or direct marketing campaign prithvi? we'll drum up obscene amounts of business with a nice camapaign like... well u get the picture

Dudes
Hifi-forum.net
Not
Pornfi-forum.net

Regards Deaf.

I guess the culprit is the rather cold weather in Bangalore these days……..

stevieboy schrieb:

:L

Get off that damn fence.Your opinion on audio porn is wanted .
Regards Deaf

touche

Prithvi schrieb:

Siva very clearly mentioned the amount of stuff the SIngapore /Dubai dealers sell, we indian D./D are nothing. I have personally seen both places and the amount these guys import and stock is shocking, this is beacuse their system is far superior than ours and not to forget the import duties are very small. Good prices will surely increase the demand and sales. In any other trade too, you get a better pricing if you order more.

Sorry guys, hate to nitpick here. But a few thoughts i would like to share/get clarified.
As i see it there are very few distributors in India. For instance, Pro FX, Onkyo, Jamo. These guys qualify as distributors.
Now, they carry if not the entire range, a sizable range of their products and are well stocked.
No one can dispute this.
The same in Dubai or any other place.
When they say that they are distributors they should carry their entire or almost all their products. Not say that we get them on order.

The way i see it, Siva doesn't sell the entire range of Vifa producst and certainly none of Scan Speak. Even the VIfa he carries only a selected few from the Classic line.

The same goes with Prithvi. He carries a few products that are there one day, gone the next. He isn't the distributor for ProAc, some company in Kerela is. He ain't the distributor for Linn, the same company in Kerela is.
He isn't even the distributor for Musical Fidelity or even acoustic energy for that matter.
All that he is, is another link in the chain that drives up costs for us customers(its true).
AFAIK, he doesn't stock any item. The reson for this is now clear. Someone else stores it, he gtets it, marks up a huge percentage on it and peddles it to customers like us.
Nothing wrong n it one might say. In fact i will agree that he is probably one of the more knowledgable guys out there who are in this business. But the fact remains that he too is a part of the problem, if one wants to byu quality stuff at cheaper prices.

All you see in his place are those that he did not manage to sell or some hand me downs(demo stuff) from the real distributors like, Audiopeople, Travancore Balers and Reference Point.

Prithvi schrieb:

If we in India have such a system in place, then I am sure we D/D can even order in huge amounts and give fab prices on par with Singapore/Dubai to our customers. I still feel that its no use bitching or fighting weather this dealer or distributor is good or bad or whatever. Just support your D/D and see how things will change. Just imagine if each and every customer decides that he will support his/her D/D and buy the products from India and not Singapore./Dubai, one thing for sure the grey market will die. Secondly each D/D will try and improve his set-up/service etc. He will invest more for better infrastructure as he knows business is improving.

ROFL!!
Invest in infrastructure! Comeon Prithvi. Take a look around you at your room and tell me what infrastucture you have in place there. Honestly! YOu are running your business outof a garage. For God's sake man, is this what you call infrastructure.
The carpet is barely hanging on and you don't even have proper chairs for your customers to sit on for auditioning.
For furniture you use your friend's racks.
Forget all that, where's your board!? Comeon, you could at least eke out a little to put up a decent board.
YOu have hardly put any investment in and you claim that you need to make money before you do any and you want us to support you guys blindly?!

Have you gone into the Jamo showroom.
Now there's investment in infrastructure. THe atmosphere feels professional and you feel good when you walk in there.

Now over to Siva.
Sir, where is your board. you are supposed to be a distributor, manufacturer and what not. Where is the board to prove all that. You too haven't made any investment as far as i can tell.
You are running it out of your basement and have some curtains to make it seem like you have done some kind of acoustics. Even those are flimsy. You don't stock much and also you don't give a bill.
At least not for me. Yet, you charged me VAT.

Let's not kid ourselves here. Take a realistic view. Don't simply castigate this post of mine as an attack. Don't shoot it down,take it a good sense and try to act on the points that i have noted.

Prithvi schrieb:

IMHO these are my views. They are open to any discussions. Instead of we guys talking like crap, weather its a dealer, distributor or a client, we must make this forum a better place for up coming guys who are interested in this wonderful world of audio. We must try and get more members to join this forum. Rgds Prithvi

Manek, i have simply put down my views and have not used any harsh or offensive language. These are just my observations and i feel I am entitled to air them here.
However, its left to you to make a call ont his.

Alright!. Am up agaisnt the wall now. Let the shots fly.

newtohifi schrieb:

Alright!. Am up agaisnt the wall now. Let the shots fly.

Boy Oh Boy

This is going to be interesting

[quote="newtohifi"]
Let's not kid ourselves here. Take a realistic view. Don't simply castigate this post of mine as an attack. Don't shoot it down,take it a good sense and try to act on the points that i have noted.

Alright!. Am up agaisnt the wall now. Let the shots fly.[/quote]

Sir, I must say you have made a great point for your self. I might just switch sides here...........

What ever you have mentioned [if true] then it is a revelation to me.

We Consumers are surely getting a very very raw deal here !!!

I am waiting to see all the reactions from the 'Commercial' Members.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

P.S. Sir, a small suggestion, if I may :-

Please do try and write your posts like this. It feels good to read & one will take you more seriously. Please do try and refrain from all the 'colourful' language that was used in the past. I do understand your anger & bitterness towards the India Dealers [not distributors] but what you have done above is brilliant !!

newtohifi schrieb:

Prithvi schrieb: Siva very clearly mentioned the amount of stuff the SIngapore /Dubai dealers sell, we indian D./D are nothing. I have personally seen both places and the amount these guys import and stock is shocking, this is beacuse their system is far superior than ours and not to forget the import duties are very small. Good prices will surely increase the demand and sales. In any other trade too, you get a better pricing if you order more. Sorry guys, hate to nitpick here. But a few thoughts i would like to share/get clarified. As i see it there are very few distributors in India. For instance, Pro FX, Onkyo, Jamo. These guys qualify as distributors. Now, they carry if not the entire range, a sizable range of their products and are well stocked. No one can dispute this. The same in Dubai or any other place. When they say that they are distributors they should carry their entire or almost all their products. Not say that we get them on order. The way i see it, Siva doesn't sell the entire range of Vifa producst and certainly none of Scan Speak. Even the VIfa he carries only a selected few from the Classic line. The same goes with Prithvi. He carries a few products that are there one day, gone the next. He isn't the distributor for ProAc, some company in Kerela is. He ain't the distributor for Linn, the same company in Kerela is. He isn't even the distributor for Musical Fidelity or even acoustic energy for that matter. All that he is, is another link in the chain that drives up costs for us customers(its true). AFAIK, he doesn't stock any item. The reson for this is now clear. Someone else stores it, he gtets it, marks up a huge percentage on it and peddles it to customers like us. Nothing wrong n it one might say. In fact i will agree that he is probably one of the more knowledgable guys out there who are in this business. But the fact remains that he too is a part of the problem, if one wants to byu quality stuff at cheaper prices. All you see in his place are those that he did not manage to sell or some hand me downs(demo stuff) from the real distributors like, Audiopeople, Travancore Balers and Reference Point. Prithvi schrieb: If we in India have such a system in place, then I am sure we D/D can even order in huge amounts and give fab prices on par with Singapore/Dubai to our customers. I still feel that its no use bitching or fighting weather this dealer or distributor is good or bad or whatever. Just support your D/D and see how things will change. Just imagine if each and every customer decides that he will support his/her D/D and buy the products from India and not Singapore./Dubai, one thing for sure the grey market will die. Secondly each D/D will try and improve his set-up/service etc. He will invest more for better infrastructure as he knows business is improving. ROFL!! Invest in infrastructure! Comeon Prithvi. Take a look around you at your room and tell me what infrastucture you have in place there. Honestly! YOu are running your business outof a garage. For God's sake man, is this what you call infrastructure. The carpet is barely hanging on and you don't even have proper chairs for your customers to sit on for auditioning. For furniture you use your friend's racks. Forget all that, where's your board!? Comeon, you could at least eke out a little to put up a decent board. YOu have hardly put any investment in and you claim that you need to make money before you do any and you want us to support you guys blindly?! Have you gone into the Jamo showroom. Now there's investment in infrastructure. THe atmosphere feels professional and you feel good when you walk in there. Now over to Siva. Sir, where is your board. you are supposed to be a distributor, manufacturer and what not. Where is the board to prove all that. You too haven't made any investment as far as i can tell. You are running it out of your basement and have some curtains to make it seem like you have done some kind of acoustics. Even those are flimsy. You don't stock much and also you don't give a bill. At least not for me. Yet, you charged me VAT. Let's not kid ourselves here. Take a realistic view. Don't simply castigate this post of mine as an attack. Don't shoot it down,take it a good sense and try to act on the points that i have noted. Prithvi schrieb: IMHO these are my views. They are open to any discussions. Instead of we guys talking like crap, weather its a dealer, distributor or a client, we must make this forum a better place for up coming guys who are interested in this wonderful world of audio. We must try and get more members to join this forum. Rgds Prithvi Manek, i have simply put down my views and have not used any harsh or offensive language. These are just my observations and i feel I am entitled to air them here. However, its left to you to make a call ont his. Alright!. Am up agaisnt the wall now. Let the shots fly.

I begin to see his point now.It is really interesting.I think
customers should go straight to the manufacturer,look into their manufacturing costs,factor in a percentage and pay the manufacturer directly.I really see the business growing that way in leaps and bounds,as all end users will get great prices and the whole audio scene will grow hugely.
Why audio, we should do this in every thing in life.Want medicines lets go straight to manufacturer or to the chemist who has a great interior and furnishings and bargain on the price there too.Hell it costs 15-20 paise all inclusive for an asprin(manufacturing,marketing,etc etc including research),why pay a buck for each,infact by your arguement, where is all this money going?Similarly, want vegetables, grow it in your back yard,the damn vegetable vendor is fleecing us in the metros and he isn't even wearing an Armani suit when he sells us the stuff.
As for Prithvi,I think he knows nothing in audio for which he should be paid ,and that chap in Kerela is an even bigger idiot for trusting him,to do a job which he himself can do as he has all the time in the world anyways.
Do the business and be the shining example for all of us to follow,after you commercially succeed that is.Then judge others.
Regards Deaf.

Regards Deaf.

[quote="newtohifi"][quote="Prithvi"]
As for Prithvi,I think he knows nothing in audio for which he should be paid ,and that chap in Kerela is an even bigger idiot for trusting him,to do a job which he himself can do as he has all the time in the world anyways.
Do the business and be the shining example for all of us to follow,after you commercially succeed that is.Then judge others. Regards DEAF

This is getting 'scarry' !!!

Mr. Prithvi Vedphatak & Mr. Arun Prasad [Proac & Linn]
have been challanged; oops I am sorry !!!!

Let us try and chill off a bit !! Please......

Thanks.

BHAGWAN69

[quote="bhagwan69"][quote="newtohifi"][quote="Prithvi"]
As for Prithvi,I think he knows nothing in audio for which he should be paid ,and that chap in Kerela is an even bigger idiot for trusting him,to do a job which he himself can do as he has all the time in the world anyways.
Do the business and be the shining example for all of us to follow,after you commercially succeed that is.Then judge others. Regards DEAF

This is getting 'scarry' !!!

Mr. Prithvi Vedphatak & Mr. Arun Prasad [Proac & Linn]
have been challanged; oops I am sorry !!!!

Let us try and chill off a bit !! Please......

Thanks.

BHAGWAN69[/quote]

Dear Members
No I am not challenging them, I am just being sarcastic.I know Prithvi personally,and know he can teach people a thing or two about audio.Mr.Arun Prasad seems to have trusted a knowledgeable person, with a clear intention.In no way am I mocking them,Infact I am amazed at the thought process of
'I want a deal buyers',and was pointing out economics to them.
Regards Deaf.

I have known Pithvi for a long time now and I have had talks with Arun Prasad and Jacob George and met them too. As deaf pointed out, you can’t ignore the economics here. If hi-end was popular and a faster moving product, we all would have benefited with much better prices. Sadly it isn’t so. From my talks and experiences with these guys, selling hi-end audio is a very risky, difficult and challenging business in India. I guess, if Prithvi had a well appointed office and listening room his prices would go even higher………..

If there is anything worse that you can do than posting a infalmmatory and provocative post, it is to respond to one

peace

Arj schrieb:

If there is anything worse that you can do than posting a infalmmatory and provocative post, it is to respond to one peace :prost

Guess you are right,I'll stick to technology from now on.
Regards Deaf.

Thank you Sir !!

That was a very wise call;

I guess this thread should be shut, what do fellow forum members say ?

It is a very sticky subject that seems to have 'shaken & stirred' a lot of 'emotion' [not to forget language] !!!

Let us, as 'deaf' puts it, stick to technology;
Prudent suggestion.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

P.S. Any chance of getting to listen to any 'high-end' set up at anyone's place in Mumbai ? I am tired of my Paradigm Esprit Monitors [actually my Audio Technica headphones sound much better] !!!!