Does anyone possess audiophile car audio?

Well if you are in the car you better be concentrating on the driving rather than if the soundstage is big enough

Jokes apart, it is not really easy to get an "audiophile" setup in a car as the seating, the space as well as the speaker placement are constraints

But the idea is not get get either a shrieky OR a boomy setup.. ant this si something is very possible with a JBL for sure.. I guess the installation is quite important here. during AV shows the Boom and Tizz are highlighted as that is what grabs attention

Neutral,

I agree with Arj, its very diff to get a audiophile setup in the car thou I have heard 2 of them JUST 2 out of hundreds of car systems which one can call audiophile but otherwise theres just sound which is actually all-right for a car


Regards,

Satyam.

Hi Satyam !

Is it possible for me to get a chance to listen to that car set up ? Audiophile Car set up, i.e.

Does it use Morel Components + JL Audio Subs ?
What are the amplifiers ? Rockfordfosgate ? Alpine ?

Please.........

Thanks,

BHAGWAN69

Its a White Skoda with Alpine HU, 2 Audiobhan Amps 4-ch, Illusion Audio Carbon Series Componets and Illusion Audo Lucent series 12"inch Subs(2).

PM me for more details.


Regards,

Satyam.

This car was there at the Times AV Revolution on Sunday @ Hyatt Hotel - Hermit Audio.

The set up was OK. 1 sub was blown.

There were 3 power amps in the car - Audiobahn.
02 power amps were 2 channel & 01 power amp was 4 channel [running in bridged mode] - this was for the subs.

But, this set up was not that great. I Have heard a Honda Accord with JL Audio & another Skoda with MB Quart's that sounds great.

Unfortunately, I do not know who owns it. The Accord belongs to Sea Princess Hotel [I Think], but these set ups were nice. Would like to hear it again.

Regards,

BHAGWAN 69

P.S. If you come across any good set ups, please do let me know. I am keen on listening to one.

P.S.S. I believe some forum member from Bangalore 'Cheeraz' has Dynaudio Esotar based component speakers installed in his Accord [running of the ehad unit]. I wonder how that sounds ? Any other member had the chance to listen to it ???

Its quite difficult to audition a car audio setup when the car is stationary. The sound is so different when the car is on the move, especially at a good speed, unless its a ultra high end car with all possible noise reduction mechanisms, the external factors (noise from engine/ AC fan etc) play a big role. First thing you notice is that bass is doesnt have the punch. It did sound good, when you checked the demo, but on a drive, the mid and bass are losing out.
I dont have any audiophile setup, but I found out quite a few people having the same issue.
Another issue that I face is that usually, the speakers for the front are mid-high intensive and bass comes from rear speaker or the sub....but if the driver needs a good bass response, its usually overwhelming for the passenger on the rear seat!. May be thats why I am playing with the equalizers/faders all the time!

Kvish

I had the opportunity to listen (3-1/2 hrs duration from London to Yorkshire on the M1) of a friend's car - Lexus LS430 that came factory fitted with a Mark Levinson sound system. Surprisingly, this system was actually throwing the soundstage way in front of the car almost halfway to three quarters onto the bonnet of the car while the rear part too was extended. The soundstage had a very convincing central image and this was very interesting. Very balanced sound, good imaging by car audio standards (lets not compare home audio here!) and most striking was the stupendous dynamics! Don't really know what all was present but nonetheless, it was geat sound on the move & completely non-fatiguing (very important!!!).

Cheers!

kvish schrieb:

Its quite difficult to audition a car audio setup when the car is stationary. The sound is so different when the car is on the move, especially at a good speed, unless its a ultra high end car with all possible noise reduction mechanisms, the external factors (noise from engine/ AC fan etc) play a big role. First thing you notice is that bass is doesnt have the punch. It did sound good, when you checked the demo, but on a drive, the mid and bass are losing out. I dont have any audiophile setup, but I found out quite a few people having the same issue. Another issue that I face is that usually, the speakers for the front are mid-high intensive and bass comes from rear speaker or the sub....but if the driver needs a good bass response, its usually overwhelming for the passenger on the rear seat!. May be thats why I am playing with the equalizers/faders all the time! Kvish

You hit nail on the head sir!, always noticed this problem.


Satyam.

Does this qualify as an 'audiophile' car amplifier:P. Still working out on how to get a reiable 400Volts DC for the Plates from the car battery.

http://i29.photobuck...igipics/DSC07159.jpg

Some interesting info about the Lexus - Mark Levinson Sound System.

The bond between the Lexus IS250 and its driver also extends to its audio system. The standard system is Pioneer, with a Mark Levinson unit a $3000 option. Lexus says Levinson shares its philosophy: the pursuit of perfection.

Fukusato, 55, is many things - engineer, rally driver, actor, endurance cyclist (his mountain bike was built by a Formula One designer), opera-lover.

But what he likes most is music. He built his own stereo system, with specialist Tannoy speakers 1m wide and 1.3m high. "I use them when I listen to classical music." He likes jazz, too. Not so keen on country.

One of Fukusato's goals early in the IS project was to provide the purist audio sound possible in a car. Critical were the 13 speakers (14 in the Levinson unit).

Fukusato set out to find the right paper for the speaker cones. To get that he had to find the right water for the paper. "Pure water makes the cleanest sound."

He tested about 10 water sources - including those used by saki brewers in Japan - before settling on water drawn deep from a 200-year-old mountain spring in China. The paper in the IS speaker cones is made with this water.

For more purity of sound, the sun visors have tiny holes, similar to those in the walls of a sound studio. Fukusato says that design helps prevent the sound being bounced around the cabin.

Fukusato set out to eliminate noise at the source.

Body panel gaps have been further reduced to cut wind noise. The windscreen has an inner film with high noise-dampening characteristics.

Sound insulation and absorption materials around the cabin have been arranged according to acoustic requirements.

Insulation materials have been placed on the floor tunnel, floor, roof, dashboard inner and outer, door trims, behind the rear seats and on the cargo deck in the boot with polycarbonate material under the wheel arches to eliminate noise caused by watersplash and stones.

kvish schrieb:

Its quite difficult to audition a car audio setup when the car is stationary. The sound is so different when the car is on the move, especially at a good speed, unless its a ultra high end car with all possible noise reduction mechanisms, the external factors (noise from engine/ AC fan etc) play a big role. First thing you notice is that bass is doesnt have the punch. It did sound good, when you checked the demo, but on a drive, the mid and bass are losing out. I dont have any audiophile setup, but I found out quite a few people having the same issue. Another issue that I face is that usually, the speakers for the front are mid-high intensive and bass comes from rear speaker or the sub....but if the driver needs a good bass response, its usually overwhelming for the passenger on the rear seat!. May be thats why I am playing with the equalizers/faders all the time! Kvish

Hi !

I would like to agree with you, but there are certian things that I may want to clear. When one take the demo in a stationary car, the engine is on & so is the A/C. Without the engine the power for the system will not be provided by the battery alone. The A/C is also kept on, or it will get difficult to sit in the car. The only thing missing is 'road noise'. This will play a part, but if the car is a 'Audiophile Car' all these issues will be taken care of by the installer & adequate measures would be taken for dampaning & noise suppression.

THe other main issue is that GOD has given us ears that face the front, hence we should listen to music from the front. Not from the back as is the case in most car installations. Hence, a nice 3 way component system in the front is most essential.

With regards to the Bass that comes from the back, that can be 'fixed' by time alignment feature on most top class head units. THe front & rear speakers are made to play 'later' & The subs fire first. Hence the sound gets to the listner at the same time.
This has to be heard to be believed. I cannot explain it to you so well.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

screamgigi schrieb:

Does this qualify as an 'audiophile' car amplifier:P. Still working out on how to get a reiable 400Volts DC for the Plates from the car battery. http://i29.photobuck...igipics/DSC07159.jpg

Installation ?

Heat Disappation ?

Power Supply ?

Vibration Damping ?

I wonder how practicle this whole thing would be ?

However, someone does do it :-
http://www.butleraudio.com/car.php

I am sure you have heard of them & their amplifiers.....

You could work on the design, it may just work out.

BTW I like the 'look' of your amp, where do you make them ?
Where are based out of ? Can we listen to your Amps ?

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

bhagwan69 schrieb:

screamgigi schrieb: Does this qualify as an 'audiophile' car amplifier:P. Still working out on how to get a reiable 400Volts DC for the Plates from the car battery. http://i29.photobuck...igipics/DSC07159.jpg Installation ? Heat Disappation ? Power Supply ? Vibration Damping ? I wonder how practicle this whole thing would be ? However, someone does do it :- http://www.butleraudio.com/car.php I am sure you have heard of them & their amplifiers..... You could work on the design, it may just work out. BTW I like the 'look' of your amp, where do you make them ? Where are based out of ? Can we listen to your Amps ? Regards, BHAGWAN69

Bhagwan,

If someday I spend on my car audio system this will be the amp I buy Always loved the idea of having tubes in my car and butler is the one to have


Regards,

Satyam.

Installation ?

-Not yet installed. I am thinking of installing it in my Scorpio once the PSU is sorted out.


Heat Disappation ?

-Approx 60watts. Audio output is approx 50wpc in Class AB.


Power Supply ?

- DC Inverter. Stolen from a CNC controller supply. Still being tweaked.


Vibration Damping ?

- Uses 6L6 and 12AU7 currently. In car it will use military versions VT115 and 5814. These are ruggedised tubes designed to work under battlefield conditions. They worked fine in WWII aircrafts. Should work fine in the present day cars : ) The amp will mount on Rubber dampers.


I wonder how practicle this whole thing would be ?

- Exactly


However, someone does do it :-
http://www.butleraudio.com/car.php. I am sure you have heard of them & their amplifiers.....
-No I haven’t. But these guys are making what appear to be a SS amp with a Tube buffer stage. ??? I got the idea from a guy in Korea. This amp has a built in active cross over also. Mid hi Valves, low sand.



You could work on the design, it may just work out. BTW I like the 'look' of your amp, where do you make them ?

- The Stainless Steel panels were cut in a CNC wire-cutting machine. The top cover will protect the amp in car. The big holes to allow easy removal of the output valves.



Where are based out of ? Can we listen to your Amps ?

-I live in eastern India. I am not commercial. Just a hobbyist. Any forum member is welcome to visit me and have a drink. Rum and tubes go well together. Trust me


Satyam

Hi. I know it sounds crazy but do you have any old garage (car repair wallah) near you? I found a good RCA car record player that way. Old Impala’s and Chevy’s (remember Rajesh Khanna signing on an empty highway) used to have them.

Maybe you can find and refurbish one.

Say, I stand corrected. Good car audio is possible. But it does take a lot of effort. Won't be possible as easily as home audio. I take it that Alpine, Mark Levinson, and Rocksfordgate do actually make good stuff.

But I guess I will have to search to find them. Does any Mumbai forum member own a car with any of these good systems? Something that I could listen to on a weekend.

audio_engr schrieb:

Some interesting info about the Lexus - Mark Levinson Sound System. The bond between the Lexus IS250 and its driver also extends to its audio system. The standard system is Pioneer, with a Mark Levinson unit a $3000 option. Lexus says Levinson shares its philosophy: the pursuit of perfection. Fukusato, 55, is many things - engineer, rally driver, actor, endurance cyclist (his mountain bike was built by a Formula One designer), opera-lover. But what he likes most is music. He built his own stereo system, with specialist Tannoy speakers 1m wide and 1.3m high. "I use them when I listen to classical music." He likes jazz, too. Not so keen on country. One of Fukusato's goals early in the IS project was to provide the purist audio sound possible in a car. Critical were the 13 speakers (14 in the Levinson unit). Fukusato set out to find the right paper for the speaker cones. To get that he had to find the right water for the paper. "Pure water makes the cleanest sound." He tested about 10 water sources - including those used by saki brewers in Japan - before settling on water drawn deep from a 200-year-old mountain spring in China. The paper in the IS speaker cones is made with this water. For more purity of sound, the sun visors have tiny holes, similar to those in the walls of a sound studio. Fukusato says that design helps prevent the sound being bounced around the cabin. Fukusato set out to eliminate noise at the source. Body panel gaps have been further reduced to cut wind noise. The windscreen has an inner film with high noise-dampening characteristics. Sound insulation and absorption materials around the cabin have been arranged according to acoustic requirements. Insulation materials have been placed on the floor tunnel, floor, roof, dashboard inner and outer, door trims, behind the rear seats and on the cargo deck in the boot with polycarbonate material under the wheel arches to eliminate noise caused by watersplash and stones.

Thisis okay..but for me the work by one person,Wayne Harris, is a source of inspiration.
The vehicle that eventually assumed the rubric of "the terminator" is probably one of the most wicked ans tricked out sudio systems in the world.

http://www.termpro.com/showcars/terminator/terminator.html

One of the most brilliant sounding cars belong to someone we all know.It is a true audiophile experience in terms of tonal balance and aspects like staging and imaging.He put in a lot of effort to get it right over a period of 6-8 months,and I have seen peoples jaws drop when they hear the first rim shot of a drum solo on it.I hope we can all hear it someday as it is a fantastic experience.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

One of the most brilliant sounding cars belong to someone we all know.

I don't
.
Who is this person?
where is this system located?

newtohifi schrieb:

The vehicle that eventually assumed the rubric of "the terminator" is probably one of the most wicked ans tricked out sudio systems in the world. http://www.termpro.com/showcars/terminator/terminator.html

Wicked it may be...but audiophile standard, i doubt it. Only when you hear it can you judge it.

I hoope that you guys do realise that after earphones car audio systems are the next worst thing that can damage your hearing significantly.
then comes full cans and the rest follow.
Assuming of course that you don't travel in any of those rickshawes taht you find in Bangalore.

Master_Yoda schrieb:

I hoope that you guys do realise that after earphones car audio systems are the next worst thing that can damage your hearing significantly. then comes full cans and the rest follow. Assuming of course that you don't travel in any of those rickshawes taht you find in Bangalore. ;)

Not the car I am talking about though,as the low frequency boundary compensation has been taken care of .
The speakers have the TS parameters with car acoustics in mind,and not modified home audio speakers put in a car.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Master_Yoda schrieb: I hoope that you guys do realise that after earphones car audio systems are the next worst thing that can damage your hearing significantly. then comes full cans and the rest follow. Assuming of course that you don't travel in any of those rickshawes taht you find in Bangalore. ;) Not the car I am talking about though,as the low frequency boundary compensation has been taken care of . The speakers have the TS parameters with car acoustics in mind,and not modified home audio speakers put in a car. Regards Deaf.

hmmm..interesting.
Could you elaborate on the boundary compensation techniques.
A link would do fine too.

A car will start having a lift at a rate of 12db per octave below the frequency decided by the longest axial lenght of the car.e.g the longest length will be fom the front floor board(near the brakes,right hand drive)diagonally to the left rear parcel deck.Assume it is 14ft in lenght ,which is approx 80Hz then at this frequency you will have a 3 db boost and a 12 db per octave lift below it .So at 40Hz you will be 15db higher than reference 0 level.Hence most cars boom even if they have treated panels.An intelligent audio chap like you will compensate with a sealed box enclosure design with a QT 0.707
exactly at the maximum axial lenght.Done
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

A car will start having a lift at a rate of 12db per octave below the frequency decided by the longest axial lenght of the car.e.g the longest length will be fom the front floor board(near the brakes,right hand drive)diagonally to the left rear parcel deck.Assume it is 14ft in lenght ,which is approx 80Hz then at this frequency you will have a 3 db boost and a 12 db per octave lift below it .So at 40Hz you will be 15db higher than reference 0 level.Hence most cars boom even if they have treated panels.An intelligent audio chap like you will compensate with a sealed box enclosure design with a QT 0.707 exactly at the maximum axial lenght.Done Regards Deaf.

Things are really getting interesting now.
What is the scentific theory used by you in this explanation?
How did you come by on the 3Db increase at 80Hz(i understood the math on the axial lenght)?
And more importantly,how did you deduce that the freq response increases at a rate of 12Db/octave above the freq decided by the longest axial dimension?

How would a sealed design with a Qt of 0.707 help in compensating all this?

Does this hold good for our rooms as well?


What if a window is rolled down or what about the air vents for the air conditioner.
how do these interact with the environment when compared to a fully sealed car cabin.

Dear Master Yoda
That boundary reinforcement issue is a well documented study with regard to car accoustics.
Qt 0.707 is exactly the opposite in response to the above incar acoustic behaviour.
The car SQ(sound quality) is always better with windows up at all given times,as that is a defined acoustic,unlike with open windows where the acoustic is infinite.
No sir rooms work differently.
Regards Deaf

Master_Yoda schrieb:

deaf schrieb: One of the most brilliant sounding cars belong to someone we all know. I don't . Who is this person? where is this system located?

He's located in mumbai, I'm sure he would let you listen to his system when you are in town.

Satyam.

deaf schrieb:

Dear Master Yoda That boundary reinforcement issue is a well documented study with regard to car accoustics. Qt 0.707 is exactly the opposite in response to the above incar acoustic behaviour. The car SQ(sound quality) is always better with windows up at all given times,as that is a defined acoustic,unlike with open windows where the acoustic is infinite. No sir rooms work differently. Regards Deaf

Thsi trows up more questions.
Won't the windows affect the sound?
We always dread glass in our listening rooms. why should it be any different here?

also, if a note of say 20Hz is produced , it would be abt 60 feet in lenght.
won't this bounce around in the car just like it does in our homes. however, it may bounce around more number of times in the car owing to the smaller dimensions.

I still don't get how the sealed box is opposite to that of a car cabin.
a few details or just a link explainign the same would suffice.

Master_Yoda schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Dear Master Yoda That boundary reinforcement issue is a well documented study with regard to car accoustics. Qt 0.707 is exactly the opposite in response to the above incar acoustic behaviour. The car SQ(sound quality) is always better with windows up at all given times,as that is a defined acoustic,unlike with open windows where the acoustic is infinite. No sir rooms work differently. Regards Deaf Thsi trows up more questions. Won't the windows affect the sound? We always dread glass in our listening rooms. why should it be any different here? also, if a note of say 20Hz is produced , it would be abt 60 feet in lenght. won't this bounce around in the car just like it does in our homes. however, it may bounce around more number of times in the car owing to the smaller dimensions. I still don't get how the sealed box is opposite to that of a car cabin. a few details or just a link explainign the same would suffice.

Master Yoda please go back earlier in the thread and see that I have mentioned that the car is assumed to be properly damped.A car window is damped far more than our regular home window anyways.If you calculate properly,you will realise that a 20Hz signal will be down by 27db (80Hz being the corner frequency)to reference 0db level.The incar level will herefore be flat hence having no problem.
Regards Deaf.

deaf schrieb:

Master Yoda please go back earlier in the thread and see that I have mentioned that the car is assumed to be properly damped.A car window is damped far more than our regular home window anyways.If you calculate properly,you will realise that a 20Hz signal will be down by 27db (80Hz being the corner frequency)to reference 0db level.The incar level will herefore be flat hence having no problem. Regards Deaf.

Deaf,
You said that there will be an increase in the response at 12dB/octave below 80Hz.
Then how can it be 27dB below the reference level.
according to your reasoning, shouldn't it be 27dB above reference level?

Master Yoda

Sir the car acoustic will increase,the sealed enclosure will decrease,the two will offset and you will have a flat response.
Got it.
Regards Deaf