Auditioning ?

how do they know exactly how that system sounds(even after hearing them several months and sometimes years ago), how they can remember how a system sounds in a particaular place in a totally different room with different electronics and then pass a juidgement on a speaker.

i guess one you hear a speaker you remember its distinct tonal characteristics. different electronics can change things but not so much that the inherent speaker characteristics are masked or changed completely. and most speaker lines have the same overall sonic signature from bookshelves to floorstanders in the line. but if you're lucky enough to have auditioned lots of speaker lines and models, you kinda know what sounds like what and you can make a fairly informed guess as to what will change if the electronics change.. if you get my meaning.

I always take other people's suggestions with a TON of salt

it certainly pays to cos remember they have likings which will certainly be different to your own and anyone else's for that matter. and they definitely can be wrong.

So when i see posts where people claim that they have heard all types of exotic systems, i raise my eyebrows and sometimes wonder if they just mention some big names just to catch the attention of other members and try to project themselves as self styled gurus and to make themselves feel important.

this is a really interesting point newtohifi. my take is that if someone states an opinion and then backs it up with logical reasoning you can safely assume he's for real. whether his opinion matches yours is a different issue, but he's stating things cos he really has some reason for believing in them.

then there's the other type who will state something without giving any inkling of how he came to that conclusion. and if u ask, there will be a deafening silence.
(ok thats not targeted towards you deaf just couldnt resist that bad pun )

or else the guy will give you the impression that somehow his ears are superior to yours and if you cant hear the diff too bad, its common knowledge that it actually is so etc etc... a genuine guy would try and explain the diff to you.

you can come to your own conclusion as to who's for real and who's fake here on the forum

newtohifi schrieb:

I have been readnig posts by sbfx,bhagwan and a couple others . They seem to have heard a lot of speakers and systems. What i wam inteerested to know is how do they know exactly how that system sounds(even after hearing them several months and sometimes years ago), how they can remember how a system sounds in a particaular place in a totally different room with different electronics and then pass a juidgement on a speaker. I can gaurantee that if a DBT was conducted using ur systems in a different room with a second pair of comparable speakers you will most defintely not be able to make out which is which straight away. I seriously doubt if any of the recommendations hold any water at all. I always take other people's suggestions with a TON of salt. So when i see posts where people claim that they have heard all types of exotic systems, i raise my eyebrows and sometimes wonder if they just mention some big names just to catch the attention of other members and try to project themselves as self styled gurus and to make themselves feel important. Yeah u can all say they are entitled to their oopinion and u are to urs. But, i want to know how seriously u guys take other people's suggestions and what you make of such claims ? OF course it is known9and stated often by few here) that you go by your own ears..but still don't tell me that there won't be that element of doubt that when u don't hear or fell a particular thing that the other person claims he feels/hears.

Hi Newtohifi,

When auditioning systems I take my cd's that I'm familiar with and know how it sounds on my system and various others that I have heard on, maybe my recollection of sound is not good according to you but I remember the feeling I got at the time of auctioning it i.e. I liked certain aspects or disliked certain aspects of what it was doing.

I’m surely not a guru of hifi always learning but take the hobby very seriously and most importantly don’t stand to make any money out of it so all I'm writing is my personal experience and perception of sound that’s all.

I agree please take my suggestions with a grain of salt as what my ears perceive maybe different from yours do, I'm just expressing my point of view if you feel otherwise please ignore the post and move on, I'm no attention seeking fool

I'm sorry if I offended you in some way.


Regards,

Satyam.

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p10300037um.jpg

The kharma setup with goldmund amps.

http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg01652cx.jpg

Zingalis my absolute lust, not everyone’s sound very colored.
Taipei hifi show 2005.


http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg00274dm.jpg

My personal setup.


http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gryphon4sr.jpg

Gryphon amp, pre, speakers gryphon Poseidon and Rockport antares.

The gryphon setup with the trident speakers is the MOTHER of all solid state setups I have heard BAR-NONE (Please bear in mind that this is my personal opinion)

http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strad1kn.jpg

Sonus Faber stradivari with jeff r electronics, clearaudio master ref TT, clearaudio insider cart, and asthetix janus phono.


Regards,

Satyam.

newtohifi schrieb:

I have been readnig posts by sbfx,bhagwan and a couple others . They seem to have heard a lot of speakers and systems. What i wam inteerested to know is how do they know exactly how that system sounds.

very very Good question with quite a few unpleasant truths.

When you first hear a speaker you are hearing not just a speaker but the Room and ancilliaries. hence to get a true picture you need to hear it in "known" settings which is not possble in most cases. Or at laest get a chance to hear it in different settings to see if you can get a hint of the signature.

a lot of influencing is done by reviews/Forums/ and others experience which is very diffcilt to disasossiate but they too have their values if you can use that as information to form your own opinion rather than get overly biased by it (Not entirely avoidable tho)

This way a "Picture" of the speaker gets formed in your mind.. which of course mey not be the same for everyone

Hence the importance of spending time with the speaker to form your own opinions. and Ideally carry your media/Source and Amplifier with you so you only have the room to "Compensate" for. hence ideally get the dealer to place the speaker in the way you would be doing so in your room to get the best estimate possible.

To me thats why reviews are important to see if that agrees with your opinion or not.. although it also has the nasty side effect of overwhelming yours.

And to my knowledge that is the best you can do

The problem in this hobby is nthat the Speaker - Room Interaction and the Amp- Speaker interactions are SOOO relevant that things sound very different to peopls.

Furthermore the Frequency response of each individuals ear (Fletcher-Munson curves) is so varied that the 2 people will hear things differently (Tho with more subtle variance) even if everything else remains the same !!!!!

And then as you age (30+) oyur frequencey response of th ear chaanges ehnce the same person hearing the same system at the same spot but after a few years migh again think different

I am not even getting into the phsycologial state of the person here.. as that too influences the "mUSICALITY3 aspect

hmmm..
Looking at the responses i got, it seems you guys have taken it as personal affronts.
Make no mistake, i am not pointing fingers at anyone.

Sbfx,
with your posts of all the wonderful systems(thanks for the pictures) i take it you surely get around and i find it hard to believe that you are just 23. Nonetheless, i think you could post one with better lighting.
Those are Dnaudio C5s?

a few things that i would like to point out.

I have heard some very good systems but find it hard to judge between them considering the fact that the room acoustics are never the same(forget about the electronics).
i too carry my own CDs and audition systems and am familiar with the tracks that i use for auditioing.
But, i have found that on more than one occasion my own speakers surprise me with some passages that i might not have heard earlier. The reasons can be anything, maybe that day the environment was quieter, had nothing else on my mind,etc.
So, there are a lot of things that need to be accounted for when you audition a system. I agree that you can make a fair judgement on systems by looking out for critical passages that are generally hard for most sytems to reproduce faithfully.

Then agian, when it comes to comparing systems that are very close in terms of price and use of technology but the implementation may be different, then you will have to throw all of it out and go for a proper DBT to come to a fair conclusion. No two ways about it.

Conducting a controled DBT which has a error under +/- 0.2 or 0.3 dB is very hard for us to rig up and none of us have the resources to conduct such a comparison(if someone does then please let us know).

we seem to have posted at the same time (ref:My post above yours)

DBT has its own problems as well.. enough on the web..

Yes arj, k now the problems associated with DBTs.
There are other tests like triple stimulus and hidden reference tests that are conducted during audio recordings and audio compression.
a combnination of the three will give the best possible result.

You can read a lot more about triple stimulus and hidden reference tests on the net.

Dear All
Forget all these complicated Floyde Toole type tests,I bet if you hear the same speaker in the same setup with your eyes open but with differnt coloured grille cloths,they will sound different to you,provided your brain is not pre informed that speakers are the same.
Regards Deaf.
P.S Do not defy this, as it will shatter your ego as it did mine,and I can humbly state I can hear quite a bit.

Fully endorse your view deaf.
Forget about grills.
There ahve been tests conducted where with the capacitors being removed and replaced with a short(on the supply rails) have fooled trained ears.

There has been this famous test by Dunlavy (Of dunlavy speakers fame) whi invited a group od reviewers.. told them that he is going to change 3 different cables in a DBT and played the same music 3 times using a regular cable..
There were the usual reference of the "Jaw dropping to the floor, viel lifting, i could see the singer in front " variety. It used to be on the web , although cannot find it now..

Newtohifi,

They are Merlin VSM-MX not dyn C5 and as for DBT well I'll back out not trying to prove a point here I like what I enjoy the way it is, I must say thou that its the best laid trap for hifi


Satyam.

PS: I'll post a pic later sometime with better lighting

sbfx schrieb:

They are Merlin VSM-MX

Thats one speaker I have heard so much about but never got a chance to listen to..Since it apprarently works so well with tubes, I can imagine that they match very well with the Jadis.
BTW, Bobby Palkovich (Not sure of the second name) is quite active on on the AA forum..

Yes Arj,

The merlins are one of the very few dynamic speakers that are made for tube guys, would work well with 20watts of good tube power some have used it with a 8watt SET too.

Another great thing about Merlin is that its a proven design in existence from the past 12years without major changes and bobby is fantastic guy to deal with.


Regards,


Satyam.

Here are some more pics of various setup's I had the pleasure of listing to;














Regards,

Satyam

Hi !

The last 2 pictures need to be turned around;
Clockwise & Anti-Clockwise.
i.e.
A] Tidal Sunray - Germany - Mr. Jörn Janczak
B] JK Audio - Taiwan -

Thanks,

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

P.S. The Cantata [Gryphon] has a very very interesting red ring around the Scanspeak Revelator. The other Cantata's that I have seen in many pictures do not have this 'red ring'. Where did you get this picture from ?

Even the Rockport Hyperion looks fabulus. Did you actually hear it ? I would kill to get the chance [even to touch it] to audition it !!!

Both these speakers [Tidal & Rockport] would give the JM Labs [Grand Utopia - BE] & the Dynaudio [Master Evidence]
a run for their money - even if they were driven with Plinus Amplification !!!!

Really cool pics. Did you perchance attend the Singapore Hifi Show .. are these from that ?

And which speaker is shown in the last pic.. is that a ported design ?

Hi Bhagwan,

The cantata I heard it in Taiwan at the distributor of gryphon , the red ring well I dint pay much heed to it then so never asked but its an interesting observation.

The Hyperion was not connected and I dint want him to trouble him to start it then, but surely would have made a very good listing session

The Tidal's I liked very much thou some said that it wasn’t exactly up to it but to me they were very enjoyable even though they were placed very badly.

As for the Evidence master I have never heard them, the Temptation I have have; It sounds good but doesn’t do justice to the price, almost the same school of sound as the C5(Tonally its a toss-up which one prefers) but yes they had a bigger soundstage and larger images that’s all.

When one compares the Temptation to the B&W 800Sig(Old Non-Diamond)which I heard at HK in fact with the same amps Levenson's as the Temptation, the B&W embarrass it no contest its a different animal at $20,000 V/S $40,000(Temptation) it humiliates it.

The sheer size of the presentation from the B&W is a class apart (I was never a believer of B&W until I heard it) and they have got the pricing right, I cant imagine what the 800D would be like

The one speaker that I die to listen to is the Dynaudio Consequence would travel anywhere to listen to it the few who have heard them say it’s a MASTERPIECE and dynaudio has never again made a speaker like that since.

Its the only speaker that comes to mind which sounds like the Trident in some ways i.e. B&W 800Sig.

Arj,

The pics are from all over the place HK, Singapore, and Taiwan.

The Last pic is a speaker called JK Audio its a horn loded design.


Regards,


Satyam.