Need your help, folks !

For that price, I think it is a steal.But as you rightly said, you may end up with something that produces sound that you may or may not like due to the voicing of the speaker. I am sure the kappa is a hi-resolution speaker.I am not so sure of the HK amp. I have not heard this one but I have heard a different integrated from HK.It was one of their newer designs. I didn't like it.It was powerfull but lacked finnesse.I guess, you need to make a trip and listen to them yourself.Keep in mind that the kappa might sound totally different with a different amplifier.I have a feeling the your NAD C541i and a NAD C352 amp would be a better match with the kappa.In my opinion,there is nothing like nad electronics and a killar bookshelf speaker for a "bare-bone" minimalist stereo setup.

Hi square_wave,
Thanks for your views, I am somehow have a similer feeling too about the HK675 integrated amp, even though its predecessor(HK670) won the EISA award, in all its reviews it did state even though it had the guts it lost out on finesse.. and the other disadvantage being even though I have no quibbles with the power amp section, I think the pre-amp section screws it up and I guess the problems worsens more since there is no pre-out in this integrated where I could use a decent Pre-amp later.
I come from an engineering backround, and somehow when I got my hands on the schematics online, I somehow loved the design of the amp and quickly realized if there was any problem with the HK675 it would be with the parts, which I can somehow take care of but again its a pain !
Actually like you suggested going across the border would be the best solution, but then like I said, I have time constraints and again its a matter of taking a flight, getting a VISA, I mean in that case if I had the means I would rather go across the atlantic and have a much better solution..
Anyways, I do absolutely agree with you about your reservations on the amp.
As far as the speakers are cncerned, I dont have much clue really.. all I know when it was released it was priced around 1400$$ without the stands and I guess they must have put in some quality parts to ask for such a price.. it sells now for less than half since it didnt quite bomb the market.. well as far as the speaker is concerened I would pay around 300$$ even for a good enclosure which the Kappa does seem to have, I have heard its one of those danish beauties in its craftmanship, only hope the drivers and x-over is of some substance.
Anyways, I am really hopeing to find someone in this forum who has heard the amp and speakers individually and perfect still if heard together..
what I am really interested is the Mids of the speaker and the dynamics of the amp.
BTW, do take a look if you come across a DEZOREL line filter and hook it up the CD player, my friend who just migrated to NZ had that hooked up and it made all the difference in imaging..
Thanks again..
Sandeep.

hy sandeep

I would rather go across the atlantic and have a much better solution..

do u mean the US of A..? because I really don't know what's gotten into you asians (not meant negative) always brawling about the american gear... it's not the only gear that exists and for sure not always the best!

for myself I own a (chinese) jungson ja-88d, sure a bit atop your price range, but just to mention it..

I've never heard a hk integrated so I can'tgive you a statement on that one. however I've already listened to some floorstander kappas, my impression was that they were a bit flat ("un-alive") when I compared them to JBL northridge floorstanders and little missions (powered by a big denon integrated). I admit I'm not a fan of speakers sounding too neutral, eg. I like phonar and kef a lot, but I can't stand b&w...
apart from the "sounding" side there was one huge drawback for me, I wouldn't have bought them (I think) even if they had sounded great. why?
because imho the mixture of a bright wood cabinet with the silver-plastic-framing around the drivers looks very ugly (not to say absolutely disgusting). but thats a question of taste as is the sound itself...

if you like very neutral sounding systems like b&w's the kappa may be suitable for you, but if you're more into smooth sound and looking for warmth/warmness (?, which one is correct) it may not be an optimal choice.


greets viktor

ps. could you give some more infos, like:
-size of your listening room
-required volume (party, easy listening..)
-"soundstyle" preferences (if you can describe them)
-preferred music, listened music
-maximum budget which you are intending to spend

Hi Victor,
First of all let me thank you for your inputs and suggestions, its been truly enlighting..
As far as my statement of crossing over the Atlantic and rightly guessed by you as US of A, well its all about economics.
I am an Indian, I am absolutely proud of being one but I would rather sing my National Anthem, which I hold very close to my heart rather than sing a tune which would only be hypocritical.. Lets face the fact, the economy of the US of A is driven by the consumer spending power infact if I am not mistaken more than half of its revenues come from Consumer spending.. what are we talking about??.. One cannot get a better deal on any consumer item under this planet as much you would get the variety and deal in the States as far as us, we are still an agricultural based country which I am absolutely proud of and most of our economic indicator as of now depend on the monsoon!
Well, you have the right to disagree but I'll give you a couple of simple facts I face and my decisions are based on.
At the moment I am located in a country called Georgia (border to Turkey) as mentioned.
The distance between Georgia and India is less than half the distance between Georgia and the US of A, but still I would get a air ticket to the US of A for half the price it would cost me to get a ticket to India, even though it would take twice as much as fuel to reach the States.. I wont ask you WHY? its pretty simple, planes go empty from here to India while its loaded to the states, just the way audio goods go loaded, there’s plenty of buyers and sellers of Audio goods in the states and automatically you get a better deal, less than half of what price and plenty more a time as far as variety is concerned.
So like I have two choices, either I be a Nationalist or maybe Stupid.
In the first instance I cannot afford to be Nationalist because I just cant afford it, the NEW Nad C541i I got from the states cost me $220 (Rs 9000) inclusive of shipping and customs, well it would cost me more than $500 (Rs 25000) in India, one would argue about warranty.. well let him pay around 200% for the sake of warranty if it makes sense, I am not interested.
Now coming back to technology in the field of audio, if you tell me the Chinese have the technology more than the brits and americans, it would sound to me the Americans built the Great wall of china.. I wouldn’t laugh but you have to find other takers as I wouldn’t take that. As far as us, we started the process of liberalization in the 80’s by then most of the best known and classic gears became obsolete.
Its fine assembling and selling and to be honest most of the time you would get even a better deal than that in the States, Let me know in the next 5 years if China churns out a real fine speaker (now that is where R&D and art is required) and I will Put up your picture on the wall and Pray and also eat sand for the rest of my life!!..
I have utmost respect for Cadence in that matter, they don’t just assemble, they have the technology and even an anechoic chamber to test their speakers out and the day I have enough money I would surely buy one of their lines, but if you ask me as of now I would rather go in for a 802 Matrix in a good condition, rather than go for a Brand new Diva.. who needs the box, I need music,
Look, whatever I said about travelling across the Atlantic and having a better choice and deal in purchasing are based on my situation and facts and not based on feelings, I wish I would prove wrong.. you couldn’t be more happier than ME.
Cheers..
Sandeep.

Dipak schrieb:

hy sandeep I would rather go across the atlantic and have a much better solution.. do u mean the US of A..? because I really don't know what's gotten into you asians (not meant negative) always brawling about the american gear... it's not the only gear that exists and for sure not always the best! for myself I own a (chinese) jungson ja-88d, sure a bit atop your price range, but just to mention it.. I've never heard a hk integrated so I can'tgive you a statement on that one. however I've already listened to some floorstander kappas, my impression was that they were a bit flat ("un-alive") when I compared them to JBL northridge floorstanders and little missions (powered by a big denon integrated). I admit I'm not a fan of speakers sounding too neutral, eg. I like phonar and kef a lot, but I can't stand b&w... apart from the "sounding" side there was one huge drawback for me, I wouldn't have bought them (I think) even if they had sounded great. why? because imho the mixture of a bright wood cabinet with the silver-plastic-framing around the drivers looks very ugly (not to say absolutely disgusting). but thats a question of taste as is the sound itself... if you like very neutral sounding systems like b&w's the kappa may be suitable for you, but if you're more into smooth sound and looking for warmth/warmness (?, which one is correct) it may not be an optimal choice. greets viktor ps. could you give some more infos, like: -size of your listening room -required volume (party, easy listening..) -"soundstyle" preferences (if you can describe them) -preferred music, listened music -maximum budget which you are intending to spend

Hey Viktor,

I agree with you about the Kappa Floor Standers, thats one speaker I was able to hear in one of my friends place and I would describe as little flabby or out of beat.. maybe overlapping would be the right word.
As far as my knowledge holds, I know designing a three way speaker is many time more difficult than designing a two way, somehow its about integrating 3 drives carrying out different frequencies in harmony rather than two and I guess the fact that they tried something away from conventional with a side firing woofer only made things more difficult.. to me it just didnt sound fast and devoid of any dynamics which I need so much for my music taste, basically acoustic Jazz (not contemporary) and a bit of classical.
And thats the reason why, I have a feeling the Kappa 200 might be a different story.
I like dynamic and fast speakers, I am not very keen into laid back sound production.. what one calls just warm and mellow.
My room size if pretty small 3.5mtrs (b) 4.5 mtrs (l) and 2.8 mtrs (h).
Actually I will be shifting into a new apartment next month end.
Imaging is of utmost importance to me.
Well, the entire system that I might have :

NAD C541i CD player
Harman Kardon HK675
Infinity Kappa 200
Van Den Hul D102 interconnects
Supra Classic 4.0 speaker wire for lows and Van Den Hul Snowline for the highs.
Dezorel G2 Line filter

All for a shade below $ 1000 (45000 Rs)..

If you can help me with some suggestions and better the better.. Please do.

Cheers..

Dear Sandeep,
Here are my 2 bits.I suspect the reason that you are asking for an opinion on this forum is that you are not able to audition the gear yourself.

While there is no denying that you will get some sage advice from other members, there is no better judge than your own two ears.Do not I repeat do not buy without auditioning the gear for yourself.Do not be in a terrible hurry to buy just because you are getting a good deal.

My own sugggestion is for you to audition some more brands like NAD, Rotel etc if you can.This will give you a frame of reference.In fact if you are planning on visiting apna desh in the near future, why don't you audition gear from Lyrita audio.Viren the man who owns,designs and runs the operation is not only a forum member but also a Jazz Buff himself.So without really having heard his gear,I would guess that his stuff is 'voiced' for the kind of music you listen to.

Cheers
K

Looks like you are a very discerning listener.
The older HK 670 is supposed to be a good amp. These are newer designs and I have my reservations about them. IMHO there is no point in taking somebody else opinion unless you know that person and his tastes. I know at least a dozen audiophiles but I only trust the ears of very few among them. It is not that the rest are bad, they have different tastes! The internet is very vast and opinions on the net can be very confusing. I guess you need to take a call on this.

Hi Krish,
Thanks for your valuable inputs, If I was in a cisrumstances which would allow me the most logical way out in this issue, I would surely opt for it.
returning back to apna desh pyara desh ! is killing me.. but the life is a bitch!..
Whatever, I dont think I would be even to visit hometown in a years time, such are my pre-occupations.
I left for this place 4 years back and much seems to have changed in the sphere of audio out there, even though its still only avaiable for the priviliged (rich) and not the passionates.. I hope by the time I am out there ( maybe another 4 years) the industry would cater to people like me.. what you call "aam aadmi"!..
Thanks again
Sandeep

square_wave schrieb:

Looks like you are a very discerning listener. The older HK 670 is supposed to be a good amp. These are newer designs and I have my reservations about them. IMHO there is no point in taking somebody else opinion unless you know that person and his tastes. I know at least a dozen audiophiles but I only trust the ears of very few among them. It is not that the rest are bad, they have different tastes! The internet is very vast and opinions on the net can be very confusing. I guess you need to take a call on this.

Hi Again Square _wave,
I absolutely agree with you, Maybe thats why I am asking for some opinion and later maybe filter down those observations.. I guess in the process I can find just like you a few ears that hear quite similer to mine which would come very helpful in the future.
I also agree with you about the HK670, and what I hear straight from the horses mounth (designer) is that apart from the case itself some work has been done on the HK675 tone board by replacing the ceramic resistors by metel resistors which he feels makes the sound more civilized.. but then I am looking ahead to the listeners as to what they think if they have had the chance to audition it.
But all said and done, nothing like an self audition..
wish I could under present circumstances.
cheers again !
Sandeep.

namaste

As far as my knowledge holds, I know designing a three way speaker is many time more difficult than designing a two way

this is correct..
I owned JBL E80s and E20s and had the impression that the 20s were better balanced and provided a better soundstage.

And thats the reason why, I have a feeling the Kappa 200 might be a different story.

but this only maybe.. the may be faster and more dynamic, but I've made the experience that the tonal chracteristics (what one might describe as warm etc etc) are usually the same within a series.

I am not very keen into laid back sound production.. what one calls just warm and mellow.

to answer that one, take a look at my system first:
http://img97.echo.cx/img97/741/hifijungson0126xk.jpg

the small sony speakers are from my brothers compact-system and will soon be replaced by some electrostatic panels made by final (dutch), but nevertheless with the new gear they sound already astounding! they lack a bit of precision and soundstage, but are capable of much more than they could be expected to.

these sony speakers, like eg. kef q series and phonar, have a warm sound, but I wouldn't descsribe it as mellow. they are fast and provide enough dynamics. their performance, especially when listening to jazz, is just great. though with the sonys this is with heavy thanks to the amp and cdp..

to give you an idea of my musik taste, here are some of my favourites for testing (and listening):
-duke ellington & johnny hodges: "back 2 back (play the blues..)"
-john lee hooker: "chillout"
-khadja nin: "sambolera" (african)
-wyclef jean: "the preacher's son"
-patrice: "ancient spirit"
-les mc cann: "pump it up"

it's fairly mixed (it would go on with eg. pink floyd, the beatles), but jazz is surely quite important. especially the horns sound already very good (concerning the sonys) and when the "final o.3 mkII" are here I will be in heaven..

Look, whatever I said about travelling across the Atlantic and having a better choice and deal in purchasing are based on my situation and facts and not based on feelings, I wish I would prove wrong.. you couldn’t be more happier than ME.

sorry, there was a misunderstanding..
I was not talking about the deals, but about "american gear"... I got my stuff in china so we cross midways doing the same in opposite directions ;-)

btw about chinese gear:
-shengya which are sold here in europe as vincent at quadruple prices
-korsun which is sold as red rose for nearly 7 (!!) times its original price (1100 --> 7k$)

NAD C541i CD player Harman Kardon HK675 Infinity Kappa 200 Van Den Hul D102 interconnects Supra Classic 4.0 speaker wire for lows and Van Den Hul Snowline for the highs. Dezorel G2 Line filter

I've never heard the h/k or the nad, I can only tell you that like the nad amp (c340) we have at home and other gear I've heard from them are imho very good.
but why different cables for highs and lows? have you already tested this constellation?
what do you have in mind, bi-amping or bi-wiring?
if you are a bit short I would leave these extras like line filter (and maybe also the pricy inteconnects) aside and fully concentrate my budget on the system. you can always buy a better cable a bit later..

but I have to agree with wath krish said:
I -for myself- would never (ever) buy such important components as seakers unauditioned!
I bought a denon AVR-1804over the net last year and it proved to be completely wrong and is long sold again..


ok, I know it's been a long story, but i hope it at least helped you in some way..

greets dipak

Hi Dipak,
First of all please accept my apologies, I might have sounded a little rude in my reply..
You really did not deserve that and I accept it, its just that I guess when you’re living abroad you have this terrible feeling in you to somehow protect your identity (not that I am in any ways looked down at out here, this country has wonderful people), I think it’s more of a defence mechanism that takes control, in any case even if I wasn’t living abroad I would and am fiercely proud of being an Indian.
Anyway, it doesn’t mean I come from the school of old thought, I have a wonderful Georgian wife and son that just looks like me!!.. infact it’s a pity to see here sometimes people being insensitive and sometimes pretty insulting to their own heritage and culture and go the Yankee way, my only thought that I could spare for such individuals is poor souls that’s lost everything they had and only have the bits and pieces of paper that would anyhow turn to ashes sooner or later.
Whatever, coming back to music, let me compliment you on your choice of music indeed they are very good, though mine are mainly surrounded around piano, I’ll come back as to why later..
I like enjoy listening to Pianist in likes of Keith Jarrett, Dave Brubeck, Omar Sosa , Bruce Katz Band, among more contemporary I like Michel Camilo , I like to hear Drummers like Dave Wekle, Jack DJonte.. many more really.. the rest basically and mostly classical..
Its not that I don’t like rock I like the Police, old clapton stuff.. dire straits.. hey I am only 33 so what the hell!..
Well, Music is my passion and not just hobby I spend quite a lot of time listening and learing.. its been a part of me for a long long time actually.
I started learning piano at the age of 6 for a few years and then as time went I was off touch, its only when I came here (I work for the UN) that I decided to join the Music School where I met my wife, she was doing her masters in piano recitals, I am on my third year, I will be what you call graduate next year beginning..
So like its my passion and very much an integral part of my life, Out here in Eastern Europe Music schools are pretty renowned, we attend a lot of classical concerts, My wife has a tremendous ear for music and in the process I am developing mine too.. since we are in and out of music in our daily lives we understand and can differentiate between timbers which only makes it harder to get a music system and appreciate it.
In any case, this is a break away Republic of USSR and theres absolutely nothing for audio equipments here.. people are too poor for that, even though this place is extremely costly , say 10X of India, which makes us right at the bottom of middle class!!..
Well.. all these years out here I have been literally surviving on my simple technics CD player partnered with an headphone amp I made myself (not really good, but it helps!) and off course I love my Grados SR125..
well, I guess that’s about it, a little personal story..
Coming back to your system, seems you are a pretty high tech guy! but I guess for me its going to be pretty simple and two channel, I mean for us since we are more involved into real music scene nearly everyday, we have this concept of a stage and assembles in front.. if someone like me would decide to have a satellite speaker behind me and all of a sudden hear something coming from behind would be pretty unbelievable and maybe sometimes scarry too !! that’s why I said earlier staging would be the utmost priority in whatever system money would permit me to have.. But then I am sure your system must sound enviably good because there seems to have gone a lot of technology behind it and as far as you enjoy it, that’s what life is all about.
Youre also very correct about the line filter and cables, infact no cables are the best cables they say.. but like I got the cables (interconnects) with the CD player.
As far as Dezorel is concerned, I wrote earlier one of my colleagues passed it onto me before migrating to NZ. In any case I would have sooner or later picked up a Dezorel because it was one company that made power filters when the entire industry never even thought about it now if we look at technology its fully balanced means totally same for phase and zero, no difference, so there is no input and output as such, it filters both ways in both directions.. it has made to a tolerance of 0.1%.. what are we talking about? its basically lab specs.. I mean I always had the belief that AC is the heart of any system, I mean it is the blood that runs through a system, if its not clean .. well….
Nothing really improves the system, not even power filters, but it does help it to perform closer to the way it should/ meant to in the first place.
Btw, I have had the personal experience as to what a Dezorel can do as I have it attached to my headset system and like thru a headphone its easier to find the changes, I find instruments sounding more real and what used to be the max vol I could pump without the Dezorel is far surpassed with the Dezorel.. guess its more cleaner power and less durty AC..
Regarding the speaker cables it was a goodfup in Ebay, I bid for both, thought I would win one but ended up winning both !! anways the Supra Classic 4 is a fine cable.. just pure and basic engineering low resistance 9awg ofc tin plated (which arguably better than silver plated) copper.. no hi funda topology here.
Sorry mate, I gotto rush now sons calling !!..
Btw, this is a real nice place for a holiday.. even nicer if you’re a bachelor actually!!
if you ever decide to come.. be my guest!
Cheers !
Sandeep.