How Not To Get Ripped Off Buying Audio Gear

Autor

Beitrag

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#1 erstellt: 10. Jun 2005, 06:38

Hi All,

Why don't we do things differently on this thread...instead of us oldies going yakety yak....why don't we hear from you all ?

May we invite a response from you all ?

What steps would you take to prevent being ripped off while buying audio ?

From whom do you normally buy your audio equipment from ? Dealer ? Distributor ? Manufacturer ? Friend ? Anybody else ???????

What are the tricks vendors normally try to pull on you as you go about to buy your equipment ?

Maybe after there is a response, with your permission, we could fill in the gaps....if any !

Regards,

Junia.

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#2 erstellt: 10. Jun 2005, 08:13

This should be interesting.
Am willing to give my own inputs regarding this...but after tomoroow..after my Project viva..
Cheers,
Ben

Neutral
Stammgast

#3 erstellt: 10. Jun 2005, 09:28

I have so far only purchased from the dealers. One problem I face is that it is difficult to compare products since I hear each product in a different showroom (acoustic environment). Another risk is that if I haven't carried my own CDs, the dealer can fool me by playing songs that best exploit his system (eg. Bose).

Don't know what tricks the dealers play on me really, besides their praising their products as being better than stuff that costs twice as much

Arj
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 10. Jun 2005, 10:20

Good topic !

Old trin in the book is to play the component he wants to push at a higher volume

"A veil has lifted, Jaw dropping to the floor, powerful yet tuneful Bass, clear treble:... Yakkety yak"

everything gets better at higher volumes

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#5 erstellt: 10. Jun 2005, 10:29

well, for one thing my dealer has still not given me the bill for my speakers purchase ...this is even after having bought the Wharfedale in last August/September....
even after repeated appraisal of the same i have not received them...matter of fact had been there just 2 days ago hoping that he would, but, no such luck...they better shape up or people are going to take notice of such lax behaviour.
Ben

Manek
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 10. Jun 2005, 13:21

No bill yet obiwan ?
Me thinks you need to send an apprentice or two down to his shop to collect whats due to you

hmmm.... I remember you telling us this a few months ago. Such dealers should definately be avoided.

Neutral, mu opinion is always take your own cd's but you could also listen to cd's played by the vendor as a comparision....Taking your own cd's will take one variable out of the equation. Home demo's are probably the best if you can swing it. Hear the system at volumes comfortable to you and not your vendor. Ask for the remote.

Audition more than twice. After narrowing down to your final choices have a round or two of auditions again.

manek.

Betelguese
Ist häufiger hier

#7 erstellt: 11. Jun 2005, 13:35

I too think the biggest problem is not being able to listento different systems at the same location. As all systems have different flavour and it depends on the individuals liking. Another big pain is having very high end components driving an component of a completely different price level. which will never be bought together by anyone as a set!

sbfx
Stammgast

#8 erstellt: 12. Jun 2005, 22:03

All right here is a list of things I look for in a good setup;

a.Accurately reproduce low-level musical information.*

The ultimate effect of this capability is that the component/system will reproduce sound "natural", "musical", "complex", "expressive”,” unpredictable", "alive" and, most of all, "complete", in contrast to sounding "mechanical", "simple", "dead" and "electronic".

*Just play an excellent acoustical recording, where the music has both very soft and very loud passages, at a natural volume level.

Does the system still sound just as good at all volume levels? If it does, that system passes the test!

The softer in volume a system can play, while retaining ALL of its sonic strengths, the better that system is in retaining low-level information.

b. Immediacy

This is the gut feeling and sense that there is something actually present and alive.

Whenever low-level information is combined with immediacy, the overall effect will be a primal and sustaining sense of "reality". This is my ultimate goal.

c.The Noise Floor Factor- A component with a high "noise-floor" will mask a large amount of audible sound, while a component with a very low noise floor will reveal virtually everything about the sound.

This is the reason why systems that have a high noise-floor will be played at a higher volume, usually without conscious awareness, in an attempt to hear what is missing.

There is also a relationship between a system's noise-floor and listening FATIGUE.

When a system has a high noise-floor, meaning more of the musical information is missing, the listener will then attempt to fill in "the missing parts" with his brain.

It had taken me a long time to understand these things, its a process I have been through in the past three years, I have finally understood what I want from my system!! From the various forums sites and magazines I have read and most importantly the systems I have heard/auditioned.

Regards,
Satyam.

[Beitrag von sbfx am 12. Jun 2005, 22:06 bearbeitet]

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#9 erstellt: 13. Jun 2005, 04:56

Hi All,

So far we have had the following experiences:

Difficulty in comparing products due to the inconstancies, of equipment, music & environment
Hyping of products which a dealers promotes and ridiculing the competition
Playing equipment at high volumes so as to mask the deficiencies of a system
No proper Invoice being handed over even though the transaction has been completed.

Satyam & Manek have put it well of overcoming the above by:
Reducing the volume during the demonstration, if the music is too loud
Taking one owns CD's for the demonstration
Avoiding dealers who don't provided proper bills
Choosing a system that can play accurate, non fatiguing music at all levels with a degree of realism, at minimum distortion

Here are some questions we need to ask ourselves:
What are the warranties offered ? If they are, how are they guaranteed and what does the warranty cover and for how long ?
Is the company or individual you are purchasing your equipment from, a fly by night operator....here today & gone tomorrow when you need support the most ?
What kind of support is provided ?
Is the approach of the Vendor defensive and /or aggressive, when you ask questions like warranties or questions about the product which normally people don't ask ?
Is the Vendor pushy, aggressive and makes you feel that he is doing you a favour by selling the equipment ?
Is he reluctant to diverge information about his company, thus promoting you to doubt the credibility of whom you are dealing with ?
Is the Vendor hyping himself & his company, which gives you an impression that he is a bag of hot air only ?
Are you allowed to audition the equipment in your own environment with the music you normally listen to ?
Are any payment installment facilities offered ?

More to follow latter on......

Regards,

Junia.

bhagwan69
Inventar

#10 erstellt: 17. Jun 2005, 09:18

17.06.2005.

Mumbai - INDIA

The issues to be addressed is not the so called 'rip off' but what is it that the dealer / distributor is getting to the table ? Is the D/D [Dealer / Distributor] carrying stock ? Is the D/D giving you a demo ? Do you have the option of comparing products in simmilar price range from different manufacturers ? etc. There are many many permutations & combinations. There are only few solutions. What is the 'right' price for any piece of audio gear ? Who is there to decide the price of one's R & D ? Shelf life and time for selling any Hight End audio gear ? Profitability [from D/D's piont of view ? We audition products in India & buy them from abroad. How many of us support the Indian D / D's ?

Bhagwan69

jsa_ind
Stammgast

#11 erstellt: 17. Jun 2005, 12:24

Dear Bhagwan69 ,

I think it should be called a Rip Off because Indian customers are being ripped off...day in & day out.

I am a Manufacturer, A Distributor & a Customer. So I think I could talk from all three perspectives. It is high time the Customers know exactly what their rights are and how they should be aware of all the tricks that are being played on them.

The customers who can buy from abroad do it because they can get it at a much cheaper price & have a greater variety of choice. I myself would love people to buy from me, but I know nobody would come to me consistently if I offer inflated prices, non existent or trick warranties, no home demonstrations & have a "I am doing you a favour kind of attitude".

R& D really shouldn't concern the Distributor or Dealer, that is the responsibility f the Manufacturer. When he is offering his products at 1/3 or 1/2 the retail price, the Distributors & Dealers shouldn't taken advantage of the dependence of the Manufacturer & the gullibility of the Customer.

Shelf life & profitability by all means....but not ripping off the poor customer by charging him three to five times the base price !!

Regards,

Junia.

panditr
Ist häufiger hier

#12 erstellt: 17. Jun 2005, 19:47

Hi
I would tend to agree with both bhagwan and Jsa that we all do audition products in India and then buy them abroad because the Indian dealers/Dist rip us off. You see both these problems are inter-related. Since we buy stuff from abroad, the sales volume for D/D decrease and they try to maximise the profits on fewer sales. Because they charge exhorbitant prices, we buy more stuff from abroad.[/b] It is a vicious cycle and it will involve changes to be made on both the D/D and consumers end.
We start buying more in India, there will be higher sales leading to more people jumping in the business and competitive prices. At the same time if D/D offer products at decent prices, we will stop buying from abroad and buy locally. (Chicken or the egg problem)

ajacob
Ist häufiger hier

#13 erstellt: 17. Jun 2005, 20:18

Hi all,

Perhaps one of the things a good dealer or retailer could do is explain why the equipment is expensive by actually revealing the kind of components used to build that equipment. We all know that we pay a little extra for a 'Brand' specially those that do a lot of advertising. But what else is inside that equipment that makes it expensive could give us some confidence that we are not being ripped off. In short - transparency ! And of course, bills, warranties, original manuals, company address, an existent phone number/helpline etc can add to the confidence in the product/manufacturer.

Anil Jacob

Manek
Inventar

#14 erstellt: 20. Jun 2005, 08:18

Anil,

How right you are !

manek.

hsmraj
Ist häufiger hier

#15 erstellt: 20. Jun 2005, 11:20

I do not have a first hand experience with the Indian AV market. One thing I feel is that the customer service is generally better in N. America simply because the market forces demands it. They may even let you take home the setup to auditoin at your residence. There is also a good return policies to let you return / exchange your products if you are not fully satisfied. This can go a long way in making a decision on where to buy your gear.

To put things in perspective, I have had very similar experience with some good commercial members in this forum who are supposed to give similar service. During the course of my journey to get my HT gear, they have helped a ton with my purchase decisions. If I were to pay a premium of 10-20%, I would be happy to part with the extra money for the service and relationship they can provide.

My only problem is that the 20% premium is over the manufacturers suggested retail price in the US. You can easily get 20% off the retail in the US if you buy packages there (manufacturers price fixing).

As a bundle I was able to get D***n for $850 with warrenty and the price in Bangalore for the same is equivalent of $1300. With such differences, it is an easy decision where you would like to buy your stuff.

Given better pricing in realtion to US, some of your N. Americal travellers may have easier decision with making a purchase locally vs. US. It is simply less hassle compared to the shipping neuances and dealing with customs when you land in India. With the margins in the channel, I am not sure why we cannot get products with additional 10% discounts.

On a brighter side though, you may find some of the brands especially the D***n much cheaper in India than in UK, Europe, Australia, NZ, Japan or Korea. Also dealers in Singapore (Sim Lim square) are known to give you used / old stuff in new boxes that may cause much grief. So unless you are getting a gift from your employer or buying in US or Dubai, it may be much better to use your local dealer in India.