Cary Audio Factory Tour

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Beitrag
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#1 erstellt: 17. Sep 2007, 15:39
Hi All,

yesterday (Sunday) the local chapter of the audiophile society organized a tour of the Cary Audio factory. There were some 30 of us that showed up for the event & each of us was welcomed by a big smile & warm handshake by Dennis Had himself. After we all assembled in the lobby area, Dennis provided us lunch! :prost. Since the conf room was too small for all of us, we had to eat in the factory on the assembly tables where the equipment itself is soldered/assembled, etc. We were all very careful not to drop food into the partially assembled amps, preamps, etc. But it was fun to sit in one of the assembly line workers seats & picture in one's minds eye what the job would have looked like on a regular working day.
On the table that I chose, I had a partially assembled 2-ch power amp from their Cinema series. Both power amp modules had been assembled into the main chassis on either side. There was a huge xformer in the middle & 3 honking big 33,000uF capacitors of the power supply. These caps were 3" in diameter & atleast 4" tall!

After lunch Dennis gave a factory tour - showed us where the chassis & front panels were silked screened, where the custom-made xformers were potted with wax to prevent humming, where the daily-use parts inventory was kept, where the Cary Audio portfolio gear was assembled, where the AES porfolio gear was assembled, where the QA was done, where the break-in was done & where the packaging was done.
Close to the xformer dept, there was a loading dock where there was a HUGE wooden crate containing gear that just came back from the CEDIA show in Denver, CO. this crate must have been as big as those metal containers on a container ship!

Dennis informed us that in the beginning, when Cary Audio was started in 1990, his gear 90% export & 10% USA/domestic. The huge markets for Cary were (& remain): Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan.
However, today the shipments are flipped - 60% USA/domestic & 40% export to SE Asia & Europe. Dennis also informed us that 62% of the revenues come from 2-ch, 14% from solid-state & the rest (24%) from HT, which is steadily growing & taking over. He told us that they have gone 0-->24% in about 5 years in the HT portfolio.

Dennis informed us that all his digital gear (CDP & DVDP) are designed & manuf in Hong Kong by one of their key distributors who has now become a personal friend & key allie. Looks like these fellows are doing a very good job as the Cary CDPs have quite a following.

Then we went into his listening room where he was using one of the Cary CDPs - I did not look @ the model number. The preamp/pre-processor was one from the Cinema line that used 4 12AU7 tubes in the output stage. The cover was removed & all could see its guts. This preamp was a fully balanced preamp. Hence the connection the power amp was thru an XLR cable - Kimber Hero. The CDP to pre was also an XLR KImber Hero. The power amp was a CAD-120S, which was a 120W/ch KT88-based fully balanced stereo power amp. LOts of tubes sticking out from the top. Again, I believe that this power amp belonged to the Cinema series.
In the room was also a pair of 805C Anniversary Edition but they were not hooked up. The speakers were Dynadio Confidence C4. beautiful looking speakers & superb sound. Best of all - the room was completely UNTREATED! Yet the sound was very, very, very good. The treat in that listening room was a prototype power amp based on the radio transmitter tube 572B! This little amp output just 7W/ch, pure class-A in the config that Dennis managed to cook-up so far. Upon my request, Dennis hooked it up to the COnfidence C4 & my jaw dropped when I heard the sound - fantastic, glorious, smooth (in comparison to the KT88 based CAD-120S that was playing before), imaging like a SOB!!
The C4, I was informed, was a 4 Ohm load but an easy one. That 7W/ch power amp could play loud enough to drown out any conversation in that room. It was quite amazing & very enjoyable. In the final rendition, that 572B power is going to have a 300B tube drive it because the intention is to make it a 70W/ch, pure class-A stereo amp.

Finally, Dennis showed his generosity by giving away an AES AE-3 line stage preamp. We had a raffle drawing & one of the participants won that nice looking preamp.

So, all in all, the tour was an excellent excursion. All of us had fun looking at, touching & hearing world-class audio gear. Our hosts, Dennis Had & his wife Donna, were very gracious & generous hosts. So, we all came back with large grins on our faces..... A Sunday afternoon superbly spent!
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#2 erstellt: 17. Sep 2007, 18:19
Thanks Bombaywalla, for a SUPERB post.

What can I say .... I ENVY you.

( I am sure Manek does too... A Cary Pre is one of his prized possessions ! )

Thanks again.

P.S: When you say that he plans to upgrade the the 7 Watts to 70 Watts ( Or did I mis-understand ? ) which Output devices are intended... driven by the 300B ?
Neutral
Stammgast
#3 erstellt: 17. Sep 2007, 18:54
Fantastic! What an experience. It's great to see audio gear, but even greater to see their birth.
Is this possible here in India too? In cities where there are many audiophiles, can some commercial forum members arrange for factory tours for us?
Arj
Inventar
#4 erstellt: 17. Sep 2007, 19:31
you Lucky ^o^ you
just kidding..good for you and thanks for the post
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#5 erstellt: 17. Sep 2007, 23:01
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Hopefully I'm not making people envious (not my intention at all). I intended to share my overall experience. This trip was a long time coming as it was planned by the prez of the audiophile chapter way back in April. He personally knows Dennis Had & that's how it was feasible.





Amp_Nut schrieb:

P.S: When you say that he plans to upgrade the the 7 Watts to 70 Watts ( Or did I mis-understand ? ) which Output devices are intended... driven by the 300B ?


I purposely did not put any more details in there than I did not know if there was any interest.

well, what I learnt is that most o/p triode tubes that we know of (845, 45, 211, 300B, etc) all need a significant negative voltage on the grid (we are talking numbers like -155V). However, the 572B transmitter tube needs a grid voltage that is mildly negative (-2V) or even positive! Additionally, this tube is rated to have 2700V on its plate/anode!
Hence to get any significant output wattage the tube needs to be driven w/ a much bigger signal.
In the prototype amp that I/we heard, the drivers were (puny) 6SN7s. These superbly linear small-signal tubes just could not provide the signal level that the 572B demanded hence the overall output was just 7W/ch.
In the final rendition, the output tube will remain 572B but its driver will be a 300B pair. if I had to guess, the 300B will be driven by the 6SN7s. So, you can see, he's steadily increasing the ampl of the signal from input to output using as linear tubes as possible.

Hope that this clarifies.
Savyasaachi
Inventar
#6 erstellt: 18. Sep 2007, 01:41
Lucky you!!...any pics??
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#7 erstellt: 18. Sep 2007, 05:17
WOW ! 2700 Volts on the Anide. Will need SOME transformer.. for 70 Watts, in Class A from a SINGLE Tube ! WOW !!!

I bet when finished, it will be sold at a price WAY above what a mortal like me can afford
Manek
Inventar
#8 erstellt: 18. Sep 2007, 06:24
bombaywalla....

you lucky....so and so ! It must have been a great day.

BTW how do the cary SS gear sound ? especially power amps ?

Manek.


[Beitrag von Manek am 18. Sep 2007, 06:25 bearbeitet]
square_wave
Inventar
#9 erstellt: 18. Sep 2007, 11:33
Wow ! You sure are lucky

Thanks for the info on the tubes.
Never heard of this 572B transmitter tube. Which popular amps use them ?
Neutral
Stammgast
#10 erstellt: 18. Sep 2007, 12:55
Do explain as we non-tubies are getting lost.
2700V : that's a crazy high voltage. Scary, in fact.
70W from just one tube: How large is this tube? Never knew that just one tube or transistor could provide the entire output of a powerful amp!
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#11 erstellt: 18. Sep 2007, 16:45

Manek schrieb:
bombaywalla....

you lucky....so and so ! It must have been a great day.

BTW how do the cary SS gear sound ? especially power amps ?

Manek.



Manek, it was hard to say how good the Cary ss amps sounded as they were all installed in their HT room that had 5-ch Monitor Audio speakers. All I can say is that their build quality is very nice with a 3/8" brushed aluminum face plate & large cooling fins.
I can also say that the impact (bass) in the room was more than sufficient (atleast to me) - plenty of loud & impactful thuds!
The main listening room had just tube gear.


Sorry guys no pix! I did not take my camera 'cuz I was almost sure that Dennis would not like us to take pix of his factory. This was the case when I visited a speaker factory - the moment I pulled out my camera, I was firmly asked to put it back!
However, Dennis Had surprised me & said "click away"! I nearly killed myself for having forgotten my camera @ home. 2 friends took pix & one of them is going to write a trip article w/ pix. I'll make sure I post the link to that whenever it becomes available.
bombaywalla
Stammgast
#12 erstellt: 18. Sep 2007, 16:53

Neutral schrieb:
Do explain as we non-tubies are getting lost.
2700V : that's a crazy high voltage. Scary, in fact.
70W from just one tube: How large is this tube? Never knew that just one tube or transistor could provide the entire output of a powerful amp!



Here is a link to the 572B data sheet.
Remember that this is a transmitter tube (as in FM/AM radio transmitter) hence it is designed to output lots of power/tube.

http://www.garant-funk.de/svetlana/572B.html

AS you can read, each tube's plate (anode) dissipation is rated at 160W/tube. That is HIGH!!!
So. wanting to output 70W/ch is no sweat for this tube!

Do click the PDF spec sheet & read that the plate voltage is rated all the way to 2700V. Don't have to use @ that value but it can go all the way up there.
I believe Dennis/Cary plans to run the plate at 1500V.


Amp_Nut schrieb:

WOW ! 2700 Volts on the Anide. Will need SOME transformer.. for 70 Watts, in Class A from a SINGLE Tube ! WOW !!!


yes, it'll need a mother of an xformer! it already has some very nice sounding amorphous core xformers but I was informed that those will need to customized for Cary's application!


Amp_Nut schrieb:

bet when finished, it will be sold at a price WAY above what a mortal like me can afford


I bet that you are correct!
That was one superb sounding amp - had the same sort of smoothness that you hear from 845 tubes (another pure triode. what a surprise!). So, this might give you an idea of what it sounded like.
I will be looking out for this amp in the used market!!!
Neutral
Stammgast
#13 erstellt: 19. Sep 2007, 19:05
Thanks Bombaywalla,
The Svetlana 572B triode is one cool triode.
My best wishes for obtaining your dream amp.
aks07
Stammgast
#14 erstellt: 28. Sep 2007, 15:44

bombaywalla schrieb:
Thanks for the feedback, guys. Hopefully I'm not making people envious (not my intention at all). I intended to share my overall experience. This trip was a long time coming as it was planned by the prez of the audiophile chapter way back in April. He personally knows Dennis Had & that's how it was feasible.





Amp_Nut schrieb:

P.S: When you say that he plans to upgrade the the 7 Watts to 70 Watts ( Or did I mis-understand ? ) which Output devices are intended... driven by the 300B ?


I purposely did not put any more details in there than I did not know if there was any interest.

well, what I learnt is that most o/p triode tubes that we know of (845, 45, 211, 300B, etc) all need a significant negative voltage on the grid (we are talking numbers like -155V). However, the 572B transmitter tube needs a grid voltage that is mildly negative (-2V) or even positive! Additionally, this tube is rated to have 2700V on its plate/anode!
Hence to get any significant output wattage the tube needs to be driven w/ a much bigger signal.
In the prototype amp that I/we heard, the drivers were (puny) 6SN7s. These superbly linear small-signal tubes just could not provide the signal level that the 572B demanded hence the overall output was just 7W/ch.
In the final rendition, the output tube will remain 572B but its driver will be a 300B pair. if I had to guess, the 300B will be driven by the 6SN7s. So, you can see, he's steadily increasing the ampl of the signal from input to output using as linear tubes as possible.

Hope that this clarifies.


That is Class A2 operation.
I once built a A2 prototype using the RCA 811A transmitting tube. Gird was positive and driven from the cathode of a pentode. I used 6SN7 > KT66 >811A. 600volts HV, 26volts grid, 5K output. AC heaters.

Can’t say I really liked the result. Is sounded pleasant for the tiny time it was in Class A (like the first half watt). But it really was loud!

bombaywalla
Stammgast
#15 erstellt: 29. Sep 2007, 02:17

aks07 schrieb:


That is Class A2 operation.
I once built a A2 prototype using the RCA 811A transmitting tube. Gird was positive and driven from the cathode of a pentode. I used 6SN7 > KT66 >811A. 600volts HV, 26volts grid, 5K output. AC heaters.

Can’t say I really liked the result. Is sounded pleasant for the tiny time it was in Class A (like the first half watt). But it really was loud!




cool aks07!
thanx for giving us some more info re. similar transmitter tubes.
i must have listened to that prototype for a grand total of 30 minutes in 2 sessions of 15 minutes. I liked it for the full 30 minutes!
maybe the choice od transmitter tube makes big difference in the sound?
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