Head Fi - The cheaper option?

siva...

ella is in a different league and so is sarah vaughan...cant compare

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

siva... ella is in a different league and so is sarah vaughan...cant compare Manek.

Echo your thoughts Manek.
Ella and Duke Ellington or Ella and Louis Armmstrong. Match made in heaven.

Similar thoughts here. Diana Krall sounds very too clean and clinical compared to Ella. But we need to give credit to singers like Diana, Norah, Micheal Buble etc..for making Jazz popular among the new generation.
Savyasaachi, the live in paris dvd rocks. I picked up a copy from Landmark here.

square_wave schrieb:

But we need to give credit to singers like Diana, Norah, Micheal Buble etc..for making Jazz popular among the new generation.

Couldn't agree more! A lot of people abhorr the very word "Jazz". But when artistes like Buble and Norah get so much publicity, those very people get drawn into it! I've even heard responses like "...that's jazz??" and "F***, I wanna hear more of this stuff!!"

Diana Krall Yes.....to a point as she also does sing the standards and classics without jazzing it up. BTW I would think Diana Krall albums make for a great initiation into jazz.

Norah jones and buble, jazz singers? I wonder

Manek

Yup…they do fall under with wide umbrella of Jazz. I like some numbers by buble.
Can you suggest some good albums by Sarah Vaughan?

I would categorise buble as a singer who sings american popular songs. They may have a big band or a trio/quartet accompanyment but that does not make it jazz. Its like saying Sinatra and Tony Bennet are jazz singers ! They are not !

Anyways....Sarah vaughan is a singer who sings standards/ classics in a jazz form and straight. What a voice ! That woman can sing !

Sarah vaughan at Kellys
Sarah vaughan sings standards (excellent compilation of both styles)
Sarah vaughan sings gershwin Vol I and II

to begin with....

Manek.

BTW we have hijacked this thread.... we could discuss this at length in the music section if anyone wants to.

sorry.

Manek.

Manek schrieb:

BTW we have hijacked this thread.... we could discuss this at length in the music section if anyone wants to. sorry. Manek.

since it is an interesting and informative talk about music, hijack is too violent a term .

i have never heard her but now will do so.

my favourite female jazz singers are

Jheena Lodwick - a track called perhaps love is very touching ..
Eva cassidy
allison krauss.
madeline peyraux. has only two albums but dreamland is quite a good album. her french accent makes her songs ony that little more nicer

still have them only in "various artists" recordings but really would not mind buying their album.

Manek schrieb:

I would categorise buble as a singer who sings american popular songs. They may have a big band or a trio/quartet accompanyment but that does not make it jazz. Its like saying Sinatra and Tony Bennet are jazz singers ! They are not ! Anyways....Sarah vaughan is a singer who sings standards/ classics in a jazz form and straight. What a voice ! That woman can sing ! Sarah vaughan at Kellys Sarah vaughan sings standards (excellent compilation of both styles) Sarah vaughan sings gershwin Vol I and II to begin with.... Manek.

Thanks Manek.
On second thoughts….hmmmmmmmm. what you said is right. They are not artists who follow a definite “ jazz standard”.

Do you guys listen to Cassandra Wilson ?

I would categorise buble as a singer who sings american popular songs. They may have a big band or a trio/quartet accompanyment but that does not make it jazz. Its like saying Sinatra and Tony Bennet are jazz singers ! They are not !

You're right. He does a lot of swing!

Guys a small update..
The archos beats the IPOD hands down..thisis the best PMP for 130$(including shipping!!)
My roomies were so sold that two of them just ordered it.
I am also getting a couple more for a friend back in India and one for my bro.
Amazing deal!

Hey Sachi..thats great news...just one query, which ipod did you compare the archos with ? Was it the 5th generation iPod Video ?

abhi.pani schrieb:

Hey Sachi..thats great news...just one query, which ipod did you compare the archos with ? Was it the 5th generation iPod Video ?

Yep!..the 5th generation Ipod video(my friend had his engraved..total cost was 400$$ ), the creative vision M and the new Ipod nano.

You mean, you have compared the the archos to iPod Nano as well as Creative Vision M ??? How did it sound compared to Creative ?

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Guys a small update.. The archos beats the IPOD hands down..thisis the best PMP for 130$(including shipping!!) My roomies were so sold that two of them just ordered it. I am also getting a couple more for a friend back in India and one for my bro. Amazing deal!

Sachi, how would you compare the features: storage size, audio video capabilies, connection accessories, etc.

Great sound is not the only factor influencing a buying decision. As an engineer, can you say why the Archos sounds better. I have heard Junia's Archos with the Senn HD 600 and the Grado RS-1 and the combination with the Senn was magic! Unfortunately, I didn't have an Ipod for comparison.

Neutral schrieb:

Savyasaachi schrieb: Guys a small update.. The archos beats the IPOD hands down..thisis the best PMP for 130$(including shipping!!) My roomies were so sold that two of them just ordered it. I am also getting a couple more for a friend back in India and one for my bro. Amazing deal! Sachi, how would you compare the features: storage size, audio video capabilies, connection accessories, etc. Great sound is not the only factor influencing a buying decision. As an engineer, can you say why the Archos sounds better. I have heard Junia's Archos with the Senn HD 600 and the Grado RS-1 and the combination with the Senn was magic! Unfortunately, I didn't have an Ipod for comparison.

while the storage size is restricted at 20 gigs, the archos comes with all other bells and whistles.
Its playforsure compliant, and no DRM.
You can use it as a UMS(USB Mass storage)...so just plug it into ur laptop or computer and ur ready.

YOu can even make ur own playlists on the go.
Even comes with a plugin to use it with Itunes.
plays divx, xvid and any otehr damn thing...if it doesn't u get the software to convert it into a format that will play on it.
You can play cheesy games on it too if ur that bored

Comes with the cables needed for connecting it to a stereo at home and also with video output cbles(audio and video line outs).
You can also do stereo recording in wav(PCM) format.

You can view photos and of course connect ur digi cam directly to it and transfer files onto it.

You can do a ton more things, with several mods available online.
Even a website dedicated to this sweet piece of hardware.
www.gmini400.com.

Sachi

p.s: Abhi, a colleague of mine has one. He's pretty pisssed that he has to install drivers on any computer he wants to use it with.

square_wave schrieb:

Similar thoughts here. Diana Krall sounds very too clean and clinical compared to Ella. But we need to give credit to singers like Diana, Norah, Micheal Buble etc..for making Jazz popular among the new generation. Savyasaachi, the live in paris dvd rocks. I picked up a copy from Landmark here.

Watched the DVD.
She's so damn good in it.
Amazes me how she sings so effortlessly.
A good headphone(with an amp if ur rich enuf) with this recording and ur instantly in heaven!.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: Similar thoughts here. Diana Krall sounds very too clean and clinical compared to Ella. But we need to give credit to singers like Diana, Norah, Micheal Buble etc..for making Jazz popular among the new generation. Savyasaachi, the live in paris dvd rocks. I picked up a copy from Landmark here. Watched the DVD. She's so damn good in it. Amazes me how she sings so effortlessly. A good headphone(with an amp if ur rich enuf) with this recording and ur instantly in heaven!.

This Diana recording sounds very good even on an unamplified Grado SR-60.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Neutral schrieb: Savyasaachi schrieb: Guys a small update.. The archos beats the IPOD hands down..thisis the best PMP for 130$(including shipping!!) My roomies were so sold that two of them just ordered it. I am also getting a couple more for a friend back in India and one for my bro. Amazing deal! :prostimages/smilies/insane.gif Sachi, how would you compare the features: storage size, audio video capabilies, connection accessories, etc. Great sound is not the only factor influencing a buying decision. As an engineer, can you say why the Archos sounds better. I have heard Junia's Archos with the Senn HD 600 and the Grado RS-1 and the combination with the Senn was magic! Unfortunately, I didn't have an Ipod for comparison. while the storage size is restricted at 20 gigs, the archos comes with all other bells and whistles. Its playforsure compliant, and no DRM. You can use it as a UMS(USB Mass storage)...so just plug it into ur laptop or computer and ur ready. YOu can even make ur own playlists on the go. Even comes with a plugin to use it with Itunes. plays divx, xvid and any otehr damn thing...if it doesn't u get the software to convert it into a format that will play on it. You can play cheesy games on it too if ur that bored Comes with the cables needed for connecting it to a stereo at home and also with video output cbles(audio and video line outs). You can also do stereo recording in wav(PCM) format. You can view photos and of course connect ur digi cam directly to it and transfer files onto it. You can do a ton more things, with several mods available online. Even a website dedicated to this sweet piece of hardware. www.gmini400.com. Sachi p.s: Abhi, a colleague of mine has one. He's pretty pisssed that he has to install drivers on any computer he wants to use it with. :L

Thanks Sachi for all the info. I guess the only bug is the drivers part. U have actually tempted me into taking an Archos. As I may now have to shift cities often, it may actually make sense to have a portable audio player. Combined with my Grado (needs no amp), I guess that is all I need.

Neutral schrieb:

Savyasaachi schrieb: Neutral schrieb: Savyasaachi schrieb: Guys a small update.. The archos beats the IPOD hands down..thisis the best PMP for 130$(including shipping!!) My roomies were so sold that two of them just ordered it. I am also getting a couple more for a friend back in India and one for my bro. Amazing deal! :prostimages/smilies/insane.gif Sachi, how would you compare the features: storage size, audio video capabilies, connection accessories, etc. Great sound is not the only factor influencing a buying decision. As an engineer, can you say why the Archos sounds better. I have heard Junia's Archos with the Senn HD 600 and the Grado RS-1 and the combination with the Senn was magic! Unfortunately, I didn't have an Ipod for comparison. while the storage size is restricted at 20 gigs, the archos comes with all other bells and whistles. Its playforsure compliant, and no DRM. You can use it as a UMS(USB Mass storage)...so just plug it into ur laptop or computer and ur ready. YOu can even make ur own playlists on the go. Even comes with a plugin to use it with Itunes. plays divx, xvid and any otehr damn thing...if it doesn't u get the software to convert it into a format that will play on it. You can play cheesy games on it too if ur that bored Comes with the cables needed for connecting it to a stereo at home and also with video output cbles(audio and video line outs). You can also do stereo recording in wav(PCM) format. You can view photos and of course connect ur digi cam directly to it and transfer files onto it. You can do a ton more things, with several mods available online. Even a website dedicated to this sweet piece of hardware. www.gmini400.com. Sachi p.s: Abhi, a colleague of mine has one. He's pretty pisssed that he has to install drivers on any computer he wants to use it with. :L Thanks Sachi for all the info. I guess the only bug is the drivers part. U have actually tempted me into taking an Archos. As I may now have to shift cities often, it may actually make sense to have a portable audio player. Combined with my Grado (needs no amp), I guess that is all I need.

Neutral the drivers is not a problem for the Archos.
It is for the creative Zen Vision M.

You don't need to install any special drivers to connect ur archos to your computer.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

p.s: Abhi, a colleague of mine has one. He's pretty pisssed that he has to install drivers on any computer he wants to use it with. :L

Sachi,
Yes thats definitely an issue with all creative players...and I really dont know why Creative is playing this game...
But I wanted comments regarding Creative Vs Gmini on purely sound quality basis. Please let me know if you have conducted any tests between them.

The way i see it the only flaw the Archos has is that it doesn't support FLAc or any other lossless format.
But then again i don't have much of those.
But still would have liked to see this support it.
And an FM recevier should have been integrated, but with RIAA calling(MPAA and RIAA both are coming down pretty hard on people who use peer to peer, especially here in the US) for heads to roll with the piracy thing. They fear that people would just record music played on the radio onto their PMPs and i guess Archos had to back down.
There have been a more than a couple of cases of people being sued by the two bullies.

Nonetheless i would still like to see one on the Archos.

here's some info on it for the uninitiated.
http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/howto-notgetsued.php
http://www.grayzone.com/busts1.htm
http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/business/0,39044229,39199262,00.htm
http://sharenomore.blogspot.com/

Sachi

abhi.pani schrieb:

Savyasaachi schrieb: p.s: Abhi, a colleague of mine has one. He's pretty pisssed that he has to install drivers on any computer he wants to use it with. :L Sachi, Yes thats definitely an issue with all creative players...and I really dont know why Creative is playing this game... But I wanted comments regarding Creative Vs Gmini on purely sound quality basis. Please let me know if you have conducted any tests between them.

No hardcore tests or anything like that.
Very difficult to compare the two.
The archos may seem just a tad bright when compared to the creative.
The soundstagin is better on the archos and so is the imaging.
Then again MP3 is no source material to compare them with.
All in all the Archos comes off as a superior package and just seems to blow the competition away with the low price tag.

Sound quality wise, i would say the Archos has a tiny edge over the Creative..again that owuld be subjective.

One other thing that I found lacking in Creative is Line out...so I am unable to connect it to my main rig.
The headphone out just collapses when connected to the main rig
Does gmini have a line out ?

abhi.pani schrieb:

One other thing that I found lacking in Creative is Line out...so I am unable to connect it to my main rig. The headphone out just collapses when connected to the main rig Does gmini have a line out ?

hmm..it does i think..
The output is like an adapter that fits into the headphone jack .
but there are also some other pins next to it to which it connects.
I donot know if its pure lineout or just an adapter for the heaphone .
But the video output is from the same adapter, so i haven't really figred out how they are doing htis.
Will check it out and let you know.

Hey Abhi,
teh line out on the Archos is not a true lienout.
You just use a breakout cable.
but it does have analog line in for recording from other sources.

i guess that's a bummer!
would've been friggin cool if it came with a true lineout.
i think the new AV504 has true lineout and many more featurers and is in the price range of the IPOD video.

on the verge of making a purchase..
deciding between the HD580 and the alessandro MS1 and Grado SR225.

I would really love to go for the senns but the overhead of an amp is really killing me.
Any ideas guys..i am just completely lost here..

You can instantly rule out SR-225...
SR-225 is hardly any upgrade on the MS-1, but they cost almost double the price of MS-1.

Between MS-1 and HD-580, hmmm its difficult.
MS-1 has more slam...where as HD-580 has a better headstage.
Both are well detailed...
If you are not planning to buy an amp soon then you can go ahead with MS-1 else if you plan to buy an amp somewhere in next 3-4 months then get the HD-580.

One more thing, both MS-1 and HD-580 will improve a lot when powered by a good headamp...

Hi Abhji,

The reason i am loking forward to the Senn is that i feel with an amp they would sound really awesome.
The two amps in consideration are

http://www.aptecpro.com/Xenos-Prod/X3HA/x3ha-intro-page.html
and a MisterX made Pimeta.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215699
Trying to negotiate a price of 140-150 for the latter.

I would eventually go for both the MS1 and the Senn HD580
Anotehr reason is that the senn coiuld be phased out soon and at 125$ they are an absolute steal.

What are your thoughts on the two amps?
Reignofchaos, kindly put ina word or two about the above mentioned amps.


Sachi

Anotehr reason is that the senn coiuld be phased out soon and at 125$ they are an absolute steal.

You are very right here Sachi...even I fear that they could be phased out soon. Also $125 is an awesome bargain. If I were at your place I would have grabbed them. Looking at the situation, you can always buy the MS-1 latter....
Dont think much...Senn and Grados are two different cults, one can always own both of them without the feeling of overspending. Even I am thinking of getting a HD-580 now !!!!!

Frankly I do not know about either cos I've not heard them but going by the reputation at head-fi, get the MisterX built Pimeta... its really good ;).

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Hi Abhji, The reason i am loking forward to the Senn is that i feel with an amp they would sound really awesome. Sachi

Sachi, do go for the Senn. It sounds much more balanced and 'audiophile-like'. I went for a Grado because:
1. It's real cheap
2. Sensitive enough to avoid the need of an amp

The 580 is a real steal at $125
Wish, I could get to try and buy such things in Chennai

Well,
i bit the bullet and placed an order for the Senn HD580s.
Can't wait!!

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Well, i bit the bullet and placed an order for the Senn HD580s. Can't wait!! :prost

Congrats Await your review of them. Time to get your classical collection out. Chopin's my current favourite.

Neutral schrieb:

Savyasaachi schrieb: Well, i bit the bullet and placed an order for the Senn HD580s. Can't wait!! :prost Congrats Await your review of them. Time to get your classical collection out. Chopin's my current favourite.

Hi Neutral,

Have had the Senns for the past coupleof days.

Been listening to them from my laptop and as well from the Archos.
I must say that i can only imagine how much better these guys can become when paired with a suitable amp.
Seriously. This is a real nice can.
And not just for classical as many folks believe.
Just can't wait to get my hands on an amp.

Next up on my acquisition list is a Grado SR-225, HD650 cable, HD600 grills.
Also a Halo C2 HT prosessor and probably a Tube Pre, a turntable for back home is in the works(trying to save as much as possible for them).


A more detailed review once they are properly broken in.

Besides, i guess reignofchaos can bettter articulate on how good these phones are as he has had them for quite a while now.

Sachi

Savyasaachi schrieb:

This is a real nice can. And not just for classical as many folks believe. Just can't wait to get my hands on an amp.

this "labelling" of sound is perhaps the bigest ills in audio. marking entire brands with the same brush as one of its models used to get me so confused in the beginning !!!

i think the earlier entry level senns did have a problem playing very fast music..but no way are they soft..same with the grados..the higher end models sound very different from their entry levels !..you will find very good sound from the higher level AKGs as well.

do post on teh diffferenecs with an amp..its very easy to do an A/B with that

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Hi Neutral, Have had the Senns for the past coupleof days. Been listening to them from my laptop and as well from the Archos. I must say that i can only imagine how much better these guys can become when paired with a suitable amp. Seriously. This is a real nice can. And not just for classical as many folks believe. Just can't wait to get my hands on an amp. Next up on my acquisition is a Grado SR-225, HD650 cable, HD600 grills. Also a Halo C2 HT prosessor and probably a Tube Pre, a turntable for back home is in the works(trying to save as much as possible for them). A more detailed review once they are properly broken in. Besides, i guess reignofchaos can give a more articulate imgage on how good these phones are as he has had them for quite a while now. Sachi

Glad to know that the Senn 580s are a success. They seem to merit the no. 1 place for high-quality inexpensive headphones. I take it that they cost you just $125 + shipping.
Are you planning to sell off some of your older headphones? You seem to be on a real acquisition binge BTW, what are the cable and grills for? Don't headphones come with these?

Well, not that i am going to buy them immediately.
These are what i have marked out for my next upgrade.
And if and when i come back to Banaglore gonna bring one of the items along.

Regarding the grill and the cable.
Fellow headfiers recomend chaning the cable to atleast that of the HD650s and the grill of the HD600 looks much better than the HD580.
Supposed to be a bit more open too giving a airyness to the sound quality.

The price i paid was 124.99 which includes shipping.

totally agree with you Arj. People can get sidetracked very easily by such comments.


Sachi

Its official folks.
The Sennheiser HD-580 has been discontinued.

It was removed from the European site many months ago but seems the US site has classified it as discontinued only last week.

They are still available online at many places still for 125$ in amazon.

Grab them while you can is all i say.. :Dimages/smilies/insane.gif

Saachi

p.s: might pick up a used Alessandro MS 1 this week for about 85$

Thanks for the info buddy...

Savyasaachi schrieb:

p.s: might pick up a used Alessandro MS 1 this week for about 85$ :.

Are you getting converted...... From hifi to headfi..

abhi.pani schrieb:

Thanks for the info buddy... Savyasaachi schrieb: p.s: might pick up a used Alessandro MS 1 this week for about 85$ :. Are you getting converted...... From hifi to headfi.. :D

you have no idea buddy...am hooked to this more than i was with hifi(mostly becasue i have no other choice).
The guys in head fi are some real serious dudes.
This is one real infectious hobby.
However, I still prefer listening to big ass speakers

Debating whether to go in for IEMs instead of anotehr open can(MS1).

Looking at Etymotic ER6i, V Moda vibe, Westone UM1 and Shure E2c/3c.

Saachi

I have never got an opportunity to hear a good IEM hence no comments/suggestions from my side on this..

Its a shame that we cannnot audition IEMs unlike headphones.
Rather gross come to think of it!

Planning on about 100$ for the IEMs.GIve or take 10$.
Guess i will wait a bit longer, do some more research and make a purchase and gift it to myself on my birthday.

Savyasaachi schrieb:

Its official folks. The Sennheiser HD-580 has been discontinued. It was removed from the European site many months ago but seems the US site has classified it as discontinued only last week. They are still available online at many places still for 125$ in amazon. Grab them while you can is all i say.. :Dimages/smilies/insane.gif Saachi p.s: might pick up a used Alessandro MS 1 this week for about 85$ :.

300 ohm impedance. [Philips and grados are 32]

97 db sens. [others are 98+ ATLEAST]



Difficult to drive is an understatement

Still a stellar deal for something that cost 450 bucks many years ago, and is the benchmark for comfort.

Just make sure that you budget for a good headphone amp if you pick up the HD 580. The Alessandro MS-1 is a safer bet if you like the sound.

i guess u did not read the previous posts.
I have had the Senns for about a week now.
Went with the Senns purely because i like the comfort and it is way above the MS1 in my books(with good amplification aof course).
Hoping to get my amp from Arasu as soon as possible.
Paying over 100$ for a headphone amp with a couple of opamps and a pot is a waste of money IMHO.
Going to be a very simple, small and pretty powerful amp(2 watts into 8 ohms).

Saachi

Sorry dude. Didn’t read the earlier posts……

Good to see Arasu coming to the rescue……….Have fun with the HD 580. I have heard them with a Headroom Total bit-head amp and it rocks.

I actually heard reignofchaos' HD580s along with his DIY solid state Class A headphone amp.

Was simply blown away.

i would challenge anyone who says that Senns are not suited for rock to listen to his system before uttering another word.

I am amazed at the soundstage that these phones project.
The MS1 was pretty darn good too but i didn't think they are that comforatable for long durations.

Arasu doesn't do headphone amps(AFAIK, at least).
Had to request Arasu to make one specially for me.

Saachi

Yup. That is a common misconception about senns. I think the issue is with proper amplification for the senns. Most people connect it to source without any amp which could result in bad dynamics. This is the case with lots of so-called “speakers for classical / jazz music only”. Connect them to a pair of muscular mono-blocks and they can blow you away.