Sonic T amp

Autor

Beitrag

square_wave
Inventar

#1 erstellt: 28. Feb 2006, 16:49

This friend of mine bought one of those sonicT amps. 30 dollars. Somebody got it from the US for him.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sonicimpact/t.html

We checked it out with my Acoustic portraits and believe it or not, it sang pretty well at low volume levels. Dark background and clean sound. I was surprised. I couldn’t believe this was coming out of a 1500 bucks amp. You can’t push the volume though; it clips at around 11.30 pm position. So we took it to my friend’s place. He has klipsch RF3. 98 db speakers and this time the amp went pretty loud. More than you actually need in a medium room. But then we tried playing some well recorded dynamic music and the amp started clipping. Another thing we noticed was the lack of strength and control in the lower octaves……Asking the sonic T to control the dual 8 inchers was too much I guess. My conclusion is that it is a good value amp if you have fairly high sensitivity speakers and listen at moderate to low volume levels. Like a standby amp before you buy the real high-current amp you have been lusting after…… It will work very well in a computer setup or near-field listening in the bedroom.

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#2 erstellt: 28. Feb 2006, 17:10

Hi Square Wave,

What did you use as the power supply ?

It is STRONGLY recommended ( for good bass and overall sound quality ) to use a HEAVY duty Regulated power supply.

13.5 VDC and 5 Amperes.

Careful with the voltage, the amp will fry at 14 Volts !

You could play safe and run at 12 Volts but will loose 1 or 2 of those precious watts !

( Car Batteries are reported to be not so good.. )

All this Not my experience, but distilled from Internet Hi Fi Groups...

square_wave
Inventar

#3 erstellt: 28. Feb 2006, 17:52

We used a one ampere 12volt plug-into-wall type powersupply. This could be the culprit then……..hmmmmmmmm. Telling a guy to buy a 2k regulated 5amp power supply for a 1.5k amp is asking for trouble……

Arj
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 28. Feb 2006, 18:33

I use it with a regulated 13.8 V 3 A power source and power is not a problem .
An RF3 gives suffucient bass with even a 2 W tube amp (Been there done it

).

as pointed out by Amp_nut, the problem is not with the amp but with the power.(Or rather the current capability)

Alternatively you can even try out the adapter from an IBM (Lenovo) laptop.. that is rated 12 V 4 A and gives the amp enough juice..

viren
Stammgast

#5 erstellt: 28. Feb 2006, 18:49

Hi,

The power supply is the culprit. All the juice comes from there. Your power supply just collapsed when asked to drive hard. Probably the supply sank to something like 6V trying to source that current, saturating the power transformer.

And, do you need a regulated positive and negative voltage for this amp? Most audio ICs require a +/- supply.

Viren.

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 28. Feb 2006, 19:07

And, do you need a regulated positive and negative voltage for this amp? Most audio ICs require a +/- supply.

Viren.

Fotunately, the T-Amp needs just a single voltage ( 12 V nominal, 13.8 V Max ) power Supply.

The chip also needs a +5 V supply, which it generates internally, from the 12 V DC.

The T-Amp plastic Chasis also accomodate Dry Cells for 12 V DC.... but these dont allow it to Sing....

square_wave
Inventar

#7 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2006, 09:29

Okay guys, what’s the difference between a regulated and non-regulated power supply? I don’t know if the amp needs a regulated one. It just says 12V DC or something at the input. How can my friend source two effective power supplies (13.5v/3-5A) for two of his amps? He is planning to bi-amp a pair of speakers. He has not picked up his speakers yet. Is it possible to get one unit which can effectively power two amps?

[Beitrag von square_wave am 01. Mrz 2006, 09:44 bearbeitet]

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#8 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2006, 09:51

Okay guys, what’s the difference between a regulated and non-regulated power supply?

In an ordinary ( un-regulated) Power Supply Unit (PSU), the Voltage falls when current is drawn ( ie when the amp plays music )

In a regulated PSU, the voltage is held Rock Steady.

Fact: The T-Amp will BLOW at 14 Volts

Say you had a 13.5 V Unregulated PSU. And you are Hit by a Mains Voltage fluctuation... T-Amp becomes Burnt out Amp, Permanently.

Also, 13.5 Volts unregulated, will probably fall by atleast 10% to 15% on load, so when playing music, the T-Amp will get only 12 Volts....

The T-Amp also Sings better, at 13.5 V Volts.

Hence if you want to extract every drop of performance from your T-Amp ( Quality and quantity) ... you need a Regulated Power Supply.

Cheers

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#9 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2006, 09:54

Is it possible to get one unit which can effectively power two amps?

Yes, get a 13.5 Volts, 5 Ampere Regulated PSU.

Are you SURE you want to go the T-Amp, flea-power-amp, Only-High-Efficiency-Route for your Stereo ?

[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 01. Mrz 2006, 09:54 bearbeitet]

Arj
Inventar

#10 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2006, 09:57

something like this

http://www.partsexpr...7&Partnumber=120-534
i feel even the 3A is OK for 2

you need 2 plugs for connection to the amp

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#11 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2006, 10:46

Yeah, that would be Great.... but its in US $, and will be HEAVY !

Can be made for less locally, and its not very elaborate to do.... find a friend who is OK with the soldering iron.

i feel even the 3A is OK for 2

Can do, but read my post on High Current delivery, in the stereo section... :-)

square_wave
Inventar

#12 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2006, 11:04

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Is it possible to get one unit which can effectively power two amps?

Yes, get a 13.5 Volts, 5 Ampere Regulated PSU.

Are you SURE you want to go the T-Amp, flea-power-amp, Only-High-Efficiency-Route for your Stereo ? :?

Hi Ampnut,
It's not for me. It is for a friend who do not want to spend much on an amp right now. He is spending 90 percent of his budget on the speakers. He has a source already. Just something which is pleasant to listen to at moderate volume levels for the time being....

I guess I 'll ask him to hunt for somebody who will assemble a 13.5v/5A regulated pwr supply for him.

Arj
Inventar

#13 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2006, 12:25

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Can do, but read my post on High Current delivery, in the stereo section... :-)

it has a dynamic capacity for 5A.. so should be OK.. but I agree that the importance of the PSU for sound quality is very often underated !

buzzer
Gesperrt

#14 erstellt: 02. Mrz 2006, 12:13

It is for a friend who do not want to spend much on an amp right now. He is spending 90 percent of his budget on the speakers. He has a source already. Just something which is pleasant to listen to at moderate volume levels for the time being....

Friend are you KIDDING? 90% on speakers and a small toy to drive it. Is he by chance lost his mind somewhere.

Arj
Inventar

#15 erstellt: 02. Mrz 2006, 12:17

To some extent I agree
well... the amp soundes much better than what it has the right to at that price point.. so it is not really a bad combination.
What i feel is wrong is the hesitation to spend enough on the powersupply when it is giving only around 50% of its sound !

if budget is a constraint it makes sense to downgrade the speaker budget a bit

buzzer
Gesperrt

#16 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2006, 12:37

hey with what speakers is your friend planning to use T-amp?? better to go in for some tiny bookshelves

Arj
Inventar

#17 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2006, 12:43

buzzer schrieb:

hey with what speakers is your friend planning to use T-amp?? better to go in for some tiny bookshelves

Is that so ??

check this out

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sonicimpact/hero4.jpg

Arj
Inventar

#18 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2006, 12:46

buzzer schrieb:

hey with what speakers is your friend planning to use T-amp?? better to go in for some tiny bookshelves

if you take a correlation of speaker driver size Vs sensitivity and current requirement from an amp you might be in for an interesting result8)

[Beitrag von Arj am 09. Mrz 2006, 12:59 bearbeitet]

buzzer
Gesperrt

#19 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2006, 13:15

if you take a correlation of speaker driver size Vs sensitivity

higher sensitivity does not mean easier load and lower sensitivity doesn't either mean tougher load. I agree it's awesome performance for a small price but does that imply you have to buy them and use them.

I feel they distort early and spoil your speakers.

So it's better to find a 3 watt speaker for 6 watt amp.

[Beitrag von buzzer am 09. Mrz 2006, 13:16 bearbeitet]

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#20 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2006, 13:58

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/sonicimpact/hero4.jpg

BTW those Avant garde horns are 104 db efficiency and quite easy to drive, but don't ever beleive it's pushing those massive twin 10" drivers too as they are driven by inbuilt 500 watt Class D amps....it has driven those horns but do you beleive it could've played good???

Arj
Inventar

#21 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2006, 14:04

buzzer schrieb:

if you take a correlation of speaker driver size Vs sensitivity

But higher sensitivity and Impedance curves give you the load (true.; there is phase to think of as well.)

I run the T amp with 89 db 4 Ohm speakers and they run at less than 25 percent volume mark and absolutely no distortion..

I also know of it running Epos and even (yes!) B&W DM series speakers !!

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#22 erstellt: 10. Mrz 2006, 08:51

I wrote :

....it has driven those horns but do you beleive it could've played good???

Arjun wrote :

run the T amp with 89 db 4 Ohm speakers and they run at less than 25 percent volume mark and absolutely no distortion..

Arj are you sure about this..it's unbeleivable..BTW how does it behave when heavy LF passages are summoned and impedance drops sharply..Have you clipped it at any point of time ???. If it's really what audio press claims I feel makes more sense to use em as monoblocks.

.heck even bridge two per channel.

..is bridging possible with them???.

Arj
Inventar

#23 erstellt: 10. Mrz 2006, 09:18

yeah... have been pretty surprised myself.

I have no problem with the bass. the double bass in most jazz recordings is very clear and can hear the strigs decay very well same to do with drums very clear and no "wooly" bass. since my speakers go down to only 45 hz or so at 3 db I have crossed over a sub below that

they cannot be bridged, but can be run in a biamped mode with one amp per speaker and each biwired.

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#24 erstellt: 10. Mrz 2006, 13:54

they cannot be bridged, but can be run in a biamped mode with one amp per speaker and each biwired.

Very true. Cant Bridge the T-Amp... it will fry.

If your speakers offer a Bi-wiring option, you can :

Horizontally Bi-Amp : One Stereo T-Amp used to feed the Woofers. A seperate Stereo T-Amp feeds the tweeters.

Vertically Bi-Amp: One Stereo T-Amp feeds the Woofers and Tweeters, of the same speaker enclosure.

The point has been discussed on other Audio forums recently...

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#25 erstellt: 10. Mrz 2006, 16:05

run the T amp with 89 db 4 Ohm speakers and they run at less than 25 percent volume mark and absolutely no distortion..

Dont corelate the position of the Volume control to the untapped capacity of an amplifier.

Thgis is a trick often used in low power amps. A high gain is provided in the pre-amp section, so that the power amplifier section is putting out its full capacity, well before the 12 o'clock position.

I suspect that another 30 degree rotation will make it splutter.

However, clearly you have a Good match with your T-amp & speakers, if it provides you adequate listning levels in your room.

Happy listning over the weekend !

Arj
Inventar

#26 erstellt: 10. Mrz 2006, 21:39

Amp_Nut schrieb:

Thgis is a trick often used in low power amps. A high gain is provided in the pre-amp section, so that the power amplifier section is putting out its full capacity, well before the 12 o'clock position.

I suspect that another 30 degree rotation will make it splutter.
:*

well i am sure thats a common trick and maybe even these folks do it. currently I use the T amp as a power amp (full volume) and have a much more expensive electrocompaniet pre amp which is at the 3rd notch (out of 11)>

This is when i use an XLR IC. with RCAs it goes even lower to slightly above the 2nd position.

But one reason could be that my DAC has a very high gain (hence i have no option but use Rothwell 10dB attenuators..

)

[Beitrag von Arj am 10. Mrz 2006, 21:40 bearbeitet]

Amp_Nut
Inventar

#27 erstellt: 11. Mrz 2006, 06:13

WOW !

Great equipment you have there, Arj !

Arj
Inventar

#28 erstellt: 11. Mrz 2006, 14:18

Amp_Nut schrieb:

WOW !

Great equipment you have there, Arj ! :)

not really there yet buddy

Anyone can recoment a relatively inxpensive Pre of a Passive type, but absolutely neutral type, more as a remote volume control with multi inputs ?

Have just come across the jolida 50 A.. any other ideas ? the EC 4.6 although a classic, is more than what i really need..