3 Hours with the Polk Audio RTI-12

Autor

Beitrag

abhi.pani
Inventar

#1 erstellt: 18. Jul 2005, 10:26

Guys,
This weekend was one of the more enjoyble ones during the last few months of my experiences with HiFi...

The credit goes to the Polk Audio RTI-12 along side the Kef Q7 and ofcourse the hospitality of Profx Bangalore.

I had been there on their call. I had been waiting to check out the RTI-10 but they are yet to arrive. But the Profx guys felt that looking at RTI-12 I can atleast make out my opinion about this series and It happened exactly that way...

RTI-12 are actually a pair of monstrous looking Floorstanders, those who dont know about them can check them out at

http://www.polkaudio.com/home/products.php?category=3&speaker=347
At 500 watts rms per channel, I didnt even have an idea about the kind of SPL it would generate.
Fortunately it was place along side the Kef Q7 for comparision. (Good for me because I already had couple of sessions with the Q7 before and had a feel about them quite clearly.) It was paired with a Denon PMA-1500 stereo amp.

Anyways I started off with a regular Hotel California number with RTI-12 and within a minute or two it was evident that it is a tad "bright" than most others I have auditioned. With multiple driver implementation, 3 for LF (7" ones) 2 for MF (5 1/4" ones) and one for HF (1" Silk dome), they were making a statement which I understood only after 2-3 tracks of audition....

, They were saying "Dont sit so close to me DAMN IT..."

Infact the listening distance being just around 8 feets was simply too too close for these giant-like speakers

. But there was no option since there was not enough space..

I could clearly feel that the SPL it is delivering has to be given some time to get used to....infact there was no other way to audition them...

Things that were immediately notable was depth in its Bass as well as its room-filling capability with the sound.
I mean you are bound to listen to it if you are around...that is the kind of fullness it has in its sound.
The highs were a tad bright (may be because we were sitting too close to it), I felt the highs should have been a bit more rounded off....but....I dont know, may be it was not done keeping in mind that it will be implemented only in extra large living room and this single HF driver has to fill the room equally well. I can be sure only if I listen to it in a appropriate living room or so...

Mids were ok, cant be called great, that is the reason the RTI-10 are known to be better than these RTI-12, the RTI-10 are said to be more balanced tonally. But have to wait for them....

. Currently I was on with these monsters.

After listening to a track or two I switched on to the Kef Q7, tried the same track. The speciality IMHO is its Bass reproduction, quite tactile and deep. They were up against the competition in this department quite well except for one dissapointing incident I noticed, When I pushed the volume beyond 10 O clock position, the LF drivers of the KEF gave out a PHAT sound !!!!! As if the drivers were unable to take it and that was confirmed to me by the Profx guy. He told me that the Amp being an ultra-high-current(UHC) ones was getting too heavy for the Kefs. The kefs are 175 wpc and the amp was 100 wpc but UHC. Now that gave me a setback as that means that the speakers cant be driven beyond that volume without reducing the Bass control. Mind you, during this whole audition the tone controls were set to flat. Also the "PHAT" sound occured only for a particular number ( Bass was quite slammy in that track especially). Did anyone of you come across such events ?? If yes then please suggest the remedy !!!!

. I dont know whether it happened because of the amp or the track or the speakers or the amp-speaker combination ?? I am unable to belive that the Kefs at 175 wpc were unable to handle even 10 O clock position of that particular amp.....

.
The same amp I have tried with Jamo speakers and pushed it beyond 12 O clock position, Everything was fine...then why couldnt the Kef handle it ??

BTW I also tried to push the Polk RTI to around 12 O clock position with the same slammy track but this time the Denon tripped.....

....

Anyway coming back to the topic, the Kefs were clearly better in mids and vocals, mid frequency instruments were more clearly audible and seemed emphasized.
But again in high frequency department they sounded quite TIN-Like, I mean it was sounding metallic, as if some Tin diaphragms were generating the HF. Now what is that ?? I didnt like it....

. Can anyone tell me why is it like that ? I felt awkward with that TIN-ny sound of its tweeters.

Overall the characteristic sound of the Polk RTI was much better IMO than the Kef Q7. But the RTI-12 is meant ONLY for huge living rooms, not even for the decently mid-sized one..

. I am eagerly waiting to hear the RTI-10 and sincerely planning to pick it up...

Dont know what amps to pair it with because they require amps which can round off the high frequencies and also have enough current to drive the 2 Bass drivers well.
You guys have to help me out in that as well..

BTW the RTI-12 are priced at 69k and the RTI-10 are 46k,
Kef Q7 is around 68k as well but you get around 15% discount with the Kefs.....

[Beitrag von abhi.pani am 18. Jul 2005, 13:55 bearbeitet]

Manek
Inventar

#2 erstellt: 18. Jul 2005, 13:10

abhi, I cant believe that the denon was too high current for the kef

The sound you heard only in one track right ? maybe the you hit the resonance frequency of the driver which made it unload and bottom out.
Nowadays, a lot of speaker manufacturers tune their ports quite close to the resonance frequency of drivers to extract more bass which in turn bottoms out the driver at some point in time.....another reason could be faulty speakers....

abhi.pani
Inventar

#3 erstellt: 18. Jul 2005, 13:48

I really want to believe you on this Manek, because I hold the Kef Q7 with a lot of esteem and it getting bottomed out at 10 O clock position was dissapointing to me...

But still I have to say that the PMA 1500 delivers very current and can drive the most difficult load with ease. It is not the same as their PMA 655 or PMA 1055 amps, these amps are good but you wont find that extraordinary current driving your speakers. But 1500 drives the speakers like Aliens......and that made me believe that may be the Kefs gave up....I still have that doubt....

But if at all it was due to the resonant frequency stuff then I am relieved......

I am still looking at more inputs regarding this.....

Arj
Inventar

#4 erstellt: 18. Jul 2005, 16:44

abhi.pani schrieb:

He told me that the Amp being an ultra-high-current(UHC) ones was getting too heavy for the Kefs. The kefs are 175 wpc and the amp was 100 wpc but UHC. Now that gave me a setback as that means that the speakers cant be driven beyond that volume without reducing the Bass control. .
;)

That is a very very Odd statement to make by the salesguy ! high current has nothing to do with bottoming out and it is nothing to do with the amp (Unless the Amp is distorting ) I would tend to agree with manek on that.

If i remember basic network theory, speaker load is a passive load and that pulls current based on impedance. hence if more current was supplied, then the speaker literally asked for it ! (I could be very wrong here considering it is around 10 years that i touched that stuff)

BTW polk Speakers are very underrated, I personally rate them higher than the KEF Q series which has a pretty sad and dry sounding Bass anyway..

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#5 erstellt: 18. Jul 2005, 17:19

Arj schrieb:

abhi.pani schrieb:

Every amp has a point of distortion ...when driven beyond that point the intelligibility in the sound reproduced is lost...

I have to agree with Arj, the speaker load would have had to have changed for the amp to deliver more current...it is widely known that the speaker impedance changes due to temperature produced in the voice coil and the motor structure...hence this change in impedance will cause the load presented to the amp to fluctuate and hence the change in demand for current...

Arj schrieb:

the KEF Q series which has a pretty sad and dry sounding Bass anyway..

Finally!Someone who echoes my own thoughts.

Cheers,
Sachi

Arj
Inventar

#6 erstellt: 18. Jul 2005, 19:56

benkenobi schrieb:

I have to agree with Arj, the speaker load would have had to have changed for the amp to deliver more current...it is widely known that the speaker impedance changes due to temperature produced in the voice coil and the motor structure...hence this change in impedance will cause the load presented to the amp to fluctuate and hence the change in demand for current...

Finally!Someone who echoes my own thoughts.

Cheers,
Sachi

Also due to frequency ..It is at low freq that the impedance really drops and hence more current required. That is where instantaneous current comes in-When dynamic swings of High and freq are very high , as in western classical music, the current fluctuation is very high hence the need of an amp with a high slew rate. That is why only some amps able to produce authoritative bass while some are not.

If you try the same speakers with a better amp than the not-yet-there denon, you might get different results..But Of course the polk would still beat the KEF Q !

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#7 erstellt: 18. Jul 2005, 20:48

again u are right..
since impedance is related to frequency due to the presence of capaciticve and inductive reactance..
Xl=2(pi)fL.
therefore, with low freq(i.e 'f'), the inductive reactance decreases contributing to a reduction in the total impedance load being presented to the amplifier and hence the demand for more current.
total impedance being z=Xl+R+Xc

[Beitrag von benkenobi am 18. Jul 2005, 20:58 bearbeitet]

abhi.pani
Inventar

#8 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 06:23

Arj schrieb:

That is a very very Odd statement to make by the salesguy ! high current has nothing to do with bottoming out and it is nothing to do with the amp (Unless the Amp is distorting )

Now since someone has concurred with Manek's statement regarding bottoming out of drivers, I feel better.
But does that mean that the speakers can bottom out only in case of resonance otherwise not ?? If yes then in that case whats the solution ?? Does that mean that a different amp can do the trick for us ?

Arj schrieb:

the KEF Q series which has a pretty sad and dry sounding Bass anyway..

Are you talking about the Q7 as well ??

If yes, then what are the speakers in around 60k range that you rate better than Kefs and are available in India (Leaving apart Polk). BTW I am not thinking of Quad 22L as it is around 75k ?

benkenobi schrieb:

Finally!Someone who echoes my own thoughts.

Cheers,
Sachi

So you are relieved....

Man instead of making things easier for me, you are making it difficult

Still I say, you should go to Profx again and check them out and also it would be good if you go now because they have the Polk also for audition. You can directly compare them...

hsmraj
Ist häufiger hier

#9 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 07:00

Sachi, if you are going to Profx, is it possible for you to wait for me till July 25th. Will be able to join you any time next week.

Arj
Inventar

#10 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 07:53

abhi.pani schrieb:

Definitely..Personally I do not have a great opinion of entry level Denon stereo amps/CDPs. Try it with the usual budget kings ie Nad/Rotel/marantz and the results should be much better.

abhi.pani schrieb:

Are you talking about the Q7 as well ??

If yes, then what are the speakers in around 60k range that you rate better than Kefs and are available in India (Leaving apart Polk). BTW I am not thinking of Quad 22L as it is around 75k ?

Some of the speakers I have really liked and are entry level but not really spoke about much in India are (I am afraid I do not know about their availability)

Athena, Energy,Paradigm, Castle, Mission (Better than KEFs !) each is different sounding, but if you liked POlk, you would LOve the Athenas...Castle is very different and more polite sounding.

But you need to run them with good amps to get the benefit..

abhi.pani
Inventar

#11 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 08:12

Hmmmmm......

But I dont think Castle would be in 60k budget !!!!! Is it ??

Athenas and PSB are the ones I am still in hunt for but dont know whether I can find them in B'lore (even for a audition)

!!!!

I dont fancy the ideas of getting speakers from Mumbai or Delhi because its far and I am afraid about the after sale service. Yah but if the dealers in Mumbai have a counterpart in Blore or even in Chennai then I may think of it....

BTW the Denon amp in the audition was not all the way entry level, its a mid-end from Denon retailing at 48k.
Do you still maintain your statement ??

And are Rotels known for their entry level stuffs ??

I have auditioned Marantz PM-7200 with Acoustics Energy EVO3 speakers, the amp was good but I felt that it may not be able to drive difficult loads.....

If I pick up the Polks and try to pair it with Marantz PM-7200 then I FEEL that the Bass section may suffer as the Polks are rated at 300 wpc, 89db sensitivity and Marantz may not do adequate justice to the 2x7" Bass drivers..

Please comment.....
Rotel may do things better though. Dont know about NAD !!

Mission, Paradigm again are not available in B'lore.
There is a guy who gets Mission only on order..

I liked Jamo E855 but since budget permits, so I was looking at better options.

Arj
Inventar

#12 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 08:19

Rotel/NADMarantz are all very good and proven entry level. and each works well depending on the pair of ears and the speaker.

Marantz has the most OOMPh in terms of power (compared to the nad 320 /Rolte RA02).

regarding volume the most important is the room size and damping ..hence do check to see if the dealers room is representative of your room.

Rotels can very well drive these..I rate them as high as the NAds, depending on which speakers you drive with them

Dont know about Denons cost..but do check as to what it costs in the US to see if it is entry level or not... i havent heard it so cannot comment, but i prefer companies which are primarily stereo equipment mfg..to me denon is more into HT electronics.

decision is upto you

Krish
Stammgast

#13 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 08:44

abhipani,
I know the Castle dealer in B'bay and I also happen to have a friend who owns a pair of Castles (Pembroke) which he powers with a NAD 320BEE and a NAD 320 CDP.He is immensely happy with this set up.

However be warned that he mainly listens to Jazz and Accoustic stuff and is not a bass fiend.

The Castles have a warm and laid back tonality and are ideal if you are into Jazz,western classical music...

K

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#14 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 09:50

hsmraj schrieb:

Sachi, if you are going to Profx, is it possible for you to wait for me till July 25th. Will be able to join you any time next week.

Sure Rajesh...
Only just recovered from a bout of viral fever...so am not in a hurry to rush out...

All the brands Arjun mentioned are available in India....available in Bangalore.., i donot know.
Cheers,
Sachi

Inor
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#15 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 10:59

Arj,

The Denon PMA-1500 is not entry level.
Its certainly a mid-Level Stereo Amp. The PMA-600 Series are entry level.
You must listen to the Denon PMA-2000(PMA-2000MK IV, PMA2000AE) and your impression about Denon will change from Not-Yet-There to Not-Many-There

-Inor

[Beitrag von Inor am 19. Jul 2005, 11:00 bearbeitet]

Arj
Inventar

#16 erstellt: 19. Jul 2005, 11:39

I do not mean to contest that..Do not have much experience but for their HT amps. (I believe they have been taken over by marantz around 2 years back). denon used to make some good 2 ch stuff years back

Inor , is this the amp you are talking about ?

http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/archive/perl/515_printreview.htm

Inor
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#17 erstellt: 20. Jul 2005, 00:16

Hi Arj,

Yes. The Denon PMA-1500R is the one in the link that you have mentioned.
I was wanting you to listen to the Denon PMA-2000MKIV or Denon PMA-2000AE to see that they make good 2Ch Amps too.

-Regards
Inor

Manek
Inventar

#18 erstellt: 20. Jul 2005, 05:14

ARJ,

Marantz has not taken over denon....from the last report I read they have merged their capital and formed one big holding company called D&M holdings which hold stocks of Denon and Marantz...this was done to grow financially and bring other brands/companies into their fold as alone both were finding it difficult to grow. So now their portfolio includes denon, marantz, mcintosh, boston acoustics(about to aquire them)

http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/index.html

Manek.

Arj
Inventar

#19 erstellt: 20. Jul 2005, 09:06

Inor schrieb:

Hi Inor ,The review in hifi choice is not very generous towards it ! (Their reviews are better of the lot as they always have a panel for this, although still to be taken with a pinch of salt).

Havent had an occassion to hear it yet though yet..

cheers

Arj
Inventar

#20 erstellt: 20. Jul 2005, 09:07

Manek schrieb:

http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/index.html

Manek.

Thanks for correcting me Manek..I should have found that out myself

Manek
Inventar

#21 erstellt: 20. Jul 2005, 14:14

no problems arj......

in todays days of frantic M&A activity its difficult to keep track of things

manek.

abhi.pani
Inventar

#22 erstellt: 21. Jul 2005, 05:55

Guys,
What is the meaning of the damping factor of an amp??

What is its significance..........??

Should it be one of the parameters to be considered while evaluating an amp ???

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#23 erstellt: 21. Jul 2005, 06:44

damping factor is the amount of control the amp has over the speaker driver,or simply put driver control of the amp...
basically the damping factor of an amp in a passive setup does not matter beacsue of the interactions of the amp witht he crossover section.
U see the amp has to deal with the impedance of the xover section beofre it can start to assert control over the driver..
Impedance is the single most defining factor for the effective damping that can be achieved..
DF=Zspeaker/Zsource..

U get maximum damping in an active setup cause the amp is directly connected to the speaker since the xover will come ahead of the amplifier...thus, the entire damping capability of the amp can be realised..

There is an article on this on sound.au.com..
check it out for more details..

abhi.pani
Inventar

#24 erstellt: 21. Jul 2005, 07:42

You mean to say, in a passive setup which most of us have, the damping factor of the amp is not relevant....

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#25 erstellt: 21. Jul 2005, 08:10

That's what the article says and the resoning seems accurate..

Check it out for urself..

http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

Manek
Inventar

#26 erstellt: 21. Jul 2005, 09:27

Abhi, damping factor should matter some if not a whole lot. Yes the crossover is the stumbling block.

Another spec people look for is the slew rate. Some swear by it.

What I do is not put too much emphasis on specs and listen to my ears. Yes specs are important but to a point. Actually engineers/designers are still squabling over interpreting the specs into particular sound characteristics.

Actually, the right people to answer this point would be the manufacturers like Viren, Siva, Junia and others. It would make for interesting reading.

Manek.

Neutral
Stammgast

#27 erstellt: 21. Jul 2005, 13:32

The specs for my Pulz power amp are:
Damping factor: 105
Slew rate: 60

Could anyone tell me how this compares to other amps?

Do these variables need to be high for floorstanders and lower value for bookshelves are acceptable?

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#28 erstellt: 21. Jul 2005, 14:06

Like the article says ,the damping factor does not matter..
it is highlighted in many websites to be a farce that the manufacturers put on to dupe the customer..
and the article vindicates this..
The slew rate is the rate of change of output voltage..
call it the ability of a device to change its output quick enough when there is a change in the input..
But, I have seen this term being used only in voltage controlled devices..
there may be a slew rate for transistors ,which are current controlled..though i have not come across this term when descrinig BJTs.
Maybe, Ravi can shed some light on this, else letme see if i can dig it up.

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#29 erstellt: 22. Jul 2005, 06:08

Dampin factor is a much more sensible term in automobile suspension as it makes a lot of diffrence in striking compromise in ride quality and affects compression rating and rising rate...but in amps I beleive it makes a diffrence too .Rotels with damping factor at >1000 handled drivers well..but sorry no A/B here. maybe a physco science here..but just can't disregard a spec like that..then whatever the manufacturer claims is BS. I want to know what Junia has to say about this..??

ravi
Ist häufiger hier

#30 erstellt: 25. Jul 2005, 15:11

Slew rate applies to BJT amps as well as their saturation current is directly proportional to available base current. However I would not worry about slew rate for bass frequency reproduction - it comes into picture only when reproducing higher frequencies - and theoretically even a 5V/us slew rate should be sufficient for delivering 100W into 8ohm at 20KHz.

So whatever abhi observed might be more to do with damping (I refer to speaker mechanical damping here) or overdriving. Speakers with higher sensitivities give inherently poorer mechanical damping. I myself have observed a very similar sound when overdriving KEFs with a Denon. The likely cause might be the driver cone has reached its limit of its dispacement and would clamp suddenly, causing distortion - this would definitely result in the kind of sound Abhi described.

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#31 erstellt: 26. Jul 2005, 09:39

Abhi I beleive the damping factor of an amp plays a significant role in delivering the LF's in a controlled manner...as amps with higher dampnig factor can grip the drivers better than the ones with lower dampnif factor....the better the damping the better controlled the drivers are, but no way does it help if drivers are overdriven and they start bottoming out.May be you witnessed the bottoming out phenomenon...As you mentioned they were bottoming at 10'0' clock position might be due to the fact that they were demo items and abused always by the dealer..

[Beitrag von SUB_BOSS am 26. Jul 2005, 09:44 bearbeitet]

abhi.pani
Inventar

#32 erstellt: 27. Jul 2005, 09:12

Hey Mohan,
That is indigestable to me, man would you believe that a Benz broke down because it was driven hard !!!!

Unless and until you physically damage the drivers or play it with an extremely high powered amp (with an intention to test its limits), this shouldnt happen.
Cmon man, as far as my observation goes, the Profx guys wont dare to do such extreme experimentation....

Even if I assume that they are using these speakers for the last one year as demo pieces even then I cant believe that it is enough to DAMAGE the speakers. Afterall it costs 68k...98% of the population in this whole world would call me insane if I invest that much of an amount on a pair of speakers.....still if it cant driven hard then there is a big confusion.
Where the confusion lies is what I have to find.

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#33 erstellt: 27. Jul 2005, 10:08

dear Abhi,

Yes i agree it costs 68k, but does it imply that it should sound real loud..it's the quality you pay for..if any speaker can kick up SPL's enough to enjoy music loud without distortion or bottoming then 68k is worth well spent...We commonly compare RMS figures to draw conclusions that it would take that amount of load, but it's false. In reality nowhere do speakers get to their specified max limit as specs on amps would too. It's all a moajor fart game there...so pal..have more auditions and find out whether all connections were in phase???.

Abhi pani wrote :

[QUOTE]That is indigestable to me, man would you believe that a Benz broke down because it was driven hard !!!!
[/QUOTE]
Yes it would break down if driven hard..whether it's a benz or maruti...benz will break down a little later..

[Beitrag von SUB_BOSS am 27. Jul 2005, 10:12 bearbeitet]

abhi.pani
Inventar

#34 erstellt: 27. Jul 2005, 10:28

How loud can a 80 wpc amp get at 10 o clock position ???
My comparision is limited to very sane limits.....
A speaker getting distorted at higher volumes is understood but bottoming out at a reasonable loudness is confusing.......

I do understand that speakers dont have to go real loud to prove themselves nor do we buy them just for SPL......just like an E class is not bought for its pickup and power but still a sane buyer would definitely look at these specifications and compare it to other cars in its class and even a class below........
To get a Benz to break down just by driving it hard.....you really need insane amount of patience and intentions to do so............if the Denon was that harsh on the kefs then how could the Jamo speakers hold its own even beyond 12 o clock position (tried with the same amp)...

I would admit that I have driven the wharfdale Diamond 8.4 to much higher levels with a Rotel power amp 200 wpc but it didnt bottom out.

Man there is something.....what can it be ?
I dont want to believe that the Kefs were driven to its last breath at 10 o clock position

BTW all the connections were in phase.

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#35 erstellt: 27. Jul 2005, 10:43

Abhi i suggest you question the guy at Profx with your theory and supported findings and may be he can answer your question...I still feel it was due to the fact that the speakers need a more powerful amp without pre clipping power bursts which happens when impedance drops and amp runs out of juice much faster and bursts of energy kick in...

benkenobi
Hat sich gelöscht

#36 erstellt: 27. Jul 2005, 10:49

could it be possible that my view of the q7 being correct..
that is, it has a plummy bass one might say almost anemic and without charecter..

hell i don't know..i did not like it and it was farting away when i heard it...

Sourav
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#37 erstellt: 27. Jul 2005, 11:12

Hi Abhi,

I play Q7 with Denon PMA 2000. Very often I play them at 10 o clock position (I assume by that you mean volume being at around 33% of the total volume).

So far no problem. The Q7 sounds as good as it is in other volumes (i've so far not gone beyond 45% of total volume due the small size of my listening room).

Regarding Q7's sound quality I believe either you love it or hate it, based on individual's choice. So far it has worked in a mind blowing way for my types of music. I assume may be some contribution from PMA 2000 also (which I found very natural and warm in nature after a breaking in period of around 100/120 hours) in creating the sound quality .

Sourav

abhi.pani
Inventar

#38 erstellt: 28. Jul 2005, 05:10

Sourav,
How much did you pay for PMA-2000 ?

Sourav
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#39 erstellt: 28. Jul 2005, 05:27

Around 70K.

It is bit higher than the price you get it in US - around USD 900 - 1200.
However compared to the price of it in Japan and Europe, it is ok.

Sourav

abhi.pani
Inventar

#40 erstellt: 28. Jul 2005, 05:30

What were the other options you looked at ??
Did you try Rotel pre-power combo.

Sourav
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei

#41 erstellt: 28. Jul 2005, 07:28

Actually I got a chance to get audition of -

Rotel Pre/Power,
Arcam Diva 95,
NAD Pre/Power and
Denon

All with JM Lab, Dali and B&W.

I liked the Arcam as best. Though the music being played are not of the type I generally listen to (it was Norah Jones). But for that, Arcam topped in sound quality.

Didn't like NAD at all. I found the sound of very very heavy in nature. I heard so much about NAD, but really started wondering after the audition what make people go so much gaga about NAD.

Rotel and Denon 2000 - I found almost equivanet in sound.

Now price wise I remember (it was in Europe) - Denon was the maximum, then Arcam, then Rotel and then NAD.

Finally I felt Denon as a good choice for me as this is the one also available in India with support/servicing.

So far I'm very happy with the Denon/KEF combo. It plays very well my type of music - mostly the Hindi movie songs (KK, Lata, Asha, Rafi types) from late 60s, 70s and mid 80s. I found the Denon2000/KEF combo very good in the vocals and all these songs are mainly vocal oriented.

But it is sure that the combo had some breaking in period. First 3/4 weeks of listening was bit harsh. But now it is very warm and perfect.

Regards,
Sourav

Harmon_Bro
Ist häufiger hier

#42 erstellt: 31. Jul 2005, 18:07

Guys,
How is the Rotel RA-03 with the Klipsch RF10? Does it match well?

- Harmon_Bro

SUB_BOSS
Gesperrt

#43 erstellt: 01. Aug 2005, 08:05

Klipsch RF 3's are doing good with Rotel RB991 power and pre 1070..so since both are from same family and carry same genes and you are not too much into jazz and classical it will do good to a rock, pop, trance listener's taste.

powersupply
Ist häufiger hier

#44 erstellt: 01. Aug 2005, 12:06

Rotels + Klipsch makes an excellent combination. One can go with that combo w/o any doubts.

Arj
Inventar

#45 erstellt: 01. Aug 2005, 14:54

well depends on your tastes and the room size..
IMHO This combi in a largish room with lots of furniture might sound good..but in a small room with reflective surfaces might be bright..but if you like bright then its good for you !

In the end this is too subjective a question to answer..so you need to hear it...and if you can listen to this for more than 30 min and enjoy the music..its for you !

powersupply
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#46 erstellt: 02. Aug 2005, 07:31

I had an opportunity to listen to Klipsch BS & ref series FS with diff ele. With Rotel combo it sounded very decent. IMO it was too good with Joida valve & Aragon SS. Of course as you said the music taste & listening styles are subjective.

Arj
Inventar

#47 erstellt: 02. Aug 2005, 07:46

I have heard lots of people raving over the Jolida/klipsh combo in the klipsch Forums..
you can try posting there.. Forums.klipsch.com

I think there are quite a few with Rotels in their setup.

Aragons are not really for klipsch speakers although they are owned by the same group (Via aquisition)

powersupply
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#48 erstellt: 02. Aug 2005, 09:06

I'm aware that Klipsch are of high sensitivity & it needs more resolving amps than more power. Anyway my experience with Klipsch is very less & I cannot share more.

Was it a mistake to post that review here? You had mentioned that I should try to post it in Klipsch forums!!

Arj
Inventar

#49 erstellt: 02. Aug 2005, 14:09

powersupply schrieb:

Was it a mistake to post that review here? You had mentioned that I should try to post it in Klipsch forums!!

No Way ! informative posts are always welcome . I was just commenting to Harmon_Bro to try the klipsch forum as well..

As a former Klipsch RF3 owner am only too aware of the needs for that speaker..with these it is that first watt you put in which matters the most..hence low power amps would be ideally suited.

powersupply
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#50 erstellt: 03. Aug 2005, 07:12

since you were the former owner of klipsch, you may 've better idea than me since I never owned them, just it happened me to listen to them with couple of ele. I may be wrong but my observation was it was well for rock, disco & techno type of music & for HT applns-due to its high dymanic range & dispersion pattern.

Arj
Inventar

#51 erstellt: 03. Aug 2005, 10:29

powersupply schrieb:

It playes Western classical also very well. it has a relatively weak midrange (Can be spitty with the wrong electronics) If you choose warm low power amps you will enjoy them.

I think the Reference Bookshelves, paricularly the RB 25 (Not sure) had the best midrange. hence should do very well for you.

But due to its sensitivity, the partnering amp is very important.