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DACs - Are they a worthy upgrade ?+A -A |
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neono
Ist häufiger hier |
19:52
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#1
erstellt: 06. Mai 2010, |||
Can DACs,'instantly tranform' the sound quality of a system ? Adding a DAC is often touted as an easy and simple upgrade to an audio system .of course , it depends on how much ,one can perceive. Ive been researching a bit on cheap DACs like the Zhaolo , Maverick audio tube magic , Beresford etc.. Does anybody has any experience with these? The Maverick audio Tube magic interested me. There are some good userreviews in net. Also ,'Tube pre-out' through a SS amp - Any merits , sound wise..? ![]() |
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bhagwan69
Inventar |
09:59
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#2
erstellt: 07. Mai 2010, |||
I do not have any exposure to the DAC's that you have talked about, but since I have stopped the use of CD Players & play music off the HDD - for me DAC's are very very important. I have always had more than 1 DAC in use. None of my DACs are Tubed, but I have been satisfied with SS output stage. Currently, I have by-passed the pre too; I run my DAC straight to my Power Amplifier. I control the volume from the DAC itself. ![]() The web site quote :-
![]() [Beitrag von bhagwan69 am 07. Mai 2010, 10:05 bearbeitet] |
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sivat
Stammgast |
13:14
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#3
erstellt: 07. Mai 2010, |||
Whether the DAC is built inside the CD player, or used as a stand-alone kit....it is a very important part of the audio chain. Whether you can run the DAC directly into a power amp, depends on the DAC's output stage and also the power amp's input stage. A good preamp would always help...but then again there are power amps (like the one that Abhi has) that really would do well without a preamp. |
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bombaywalla
Stammgast |
14:35
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#4
erstellt: 07. Mai 2010, |||
Neono, whether it's the DAC or any other component in the music signal chain - they are all very important. Screw any one up & you can screw up the entire pleasure of listening to music. Now, some components have a more dramatic effect on the sound than others such as the source components - since they generate the music signal in the chain. If you generate a mediocre signal, you'll get mediocre end results at best. So, that website is simply making matters too simple & maybe even misguiding the newbie audiophile. If you have a mediocre CDP/transport & connect a world-class DAC to it, do you honestly think that you'll have a world-class CD playback system?? Unlikely, no? The DAC would be (severely) limited by the CDP. In a nutshell, if you read between the lines, what the website is telling you is that each component needs to be built correctly with attention to all details that matter for that component. The website claims that built-in DACs are compromised because the entire unit (in which the DAC is just 1 component) is manuf to a certain price point & suitable compromises are made. They want you to eliminate these compromises by buying a stand-alone DAC wherein, by having a 1 whole chassis onto itself, these compromises are eliminated. This philosophy transcends the DAC - it's applicable to all components in the audio chain. Re. the particular DAC flavours - pick your poison as each one has it's own sonic signature. Some you'll like, others you'll dislike. Also, your friends' opinions will differ from yours - that's audio for you! ![]() |
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neono
Ist häufiger hier |
18:22
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#5
erstellt: 07. Mai 2010, |||
i use a hard disk too..my laptop..What i wanted to know is about the tube pre-out in the above mention DAC. Tube amplifiers are supposed to have a signature sound right.. Now if we feed this tube pre-out to a solid-state amp, will it still sound tuby.. ![]() |
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bombaywalla
Stammgast |
19:30
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#6
erstellt: 07. Mai 2010, |||
not necessarily. There are plenty of tube preamps & power amps that sound wrong in many ways - too tubey, soft bass, rolled off highs, too syrupy, etc, etc.
it could sound tubey in a good way OR it could sound tubey in a bad way (like some of the characteristics I wrote above). Only way to find out is to try it in your system OR start communicating with one or more of the owners (you said you read several user reviews) to get their honest opinions. The caveat is that you have to trust their word as they are basically unknown people to you. If you end up trying this inexpensive DAC, do let us know how it worked out in your system. Thanks. |
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neono
Ist häufiger hier |
20:53
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#7
erstellt: 07. Mai 2010, |||
Thanks for the reply. |
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Arj
Inventar |
04:48
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#8
erstellt: 08. Mai 2010, |||
Adding on nto what B'Walla, Siva and Bhagwan have written What you need is a Good Dac not a Tube DAC ![]() But if you do plan to use multiple digital sources then a DAC is the most practical. If you are using your Laptop a a source, I believe you are looking at an USB Dac ? |
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neono
Ist häufiger hier |
20:07
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#9
erstellt: 08. Mai 2010, |||
The above mentioned one is hybrid.The tube pre-out is in addition to the normal out. ill be using the optical out. |
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bhagwan69
Inventar |
07:06
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#10
erstellt: 09. Mai 2010, |||
Pardon my ignorance, but why would you not use an out from your laptop through usb into the DAC & then RCA - Analogue out to your pre / power or integrated amp ? Please do shed some light, why 'optical' ? Thanks, ![]() |
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neono
Ist häufiger hier |
08:14
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#11
erstellt: 09. Mai 2010, |||
Im using a net-top as source. I stream via wi-fi to an Airport express ,using Airtunes. the Airport express has a mini-toslink out., which i connect to an AVR. The advantage with net-top is that , its portable . its just like a large remote. i can control the music from where i am. its wireless. ![]() With USB , the net-top remains near the amp/dac . not very convenient ![]() |
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Arj
Inventar |
13:32
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#12
erstellt: 09. Mai 2010, |||
That info would have helped in the beginning ! ![]() I would believe you are taking a risk, in case you have not heard this DAC before. While the AE analogue output is not really great, it is not too bad either..not sure if the DAC above would really give your that much of a benefit unless it has a PLL circuit to re-clock (Jitter is pretty high in the AE). Maybe you can think of the Scott Nixon dacs which are double the cost but much more VFM when it comes to Quality. |
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bombaywalla
Stammgast |
15:22
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#13
erstellt: 09. Mai 2010, |||
Agree w/ Arj: since the AE jitter is very high, IMHO you need a DAC-subsystem that can re-clock the signal i.e. either get a standalong re-clocker + DAC of your choice OR buy a DAC w/ an in-built re-clocker (like the Benchmark). IMHO if you simply buy a standalone DAC & do not take care of reducing the jitter, your benefits are going to be modest at best. Just FYI: Scott Nixon DACs are very good sounding (I say this an owner of one of his DACs). 2 things to note: Scott Nixon DACs are non-oversampling DACs - probably a different philosophy from the Maverick Audio DAC & two, they do not re-clock the incoming digital data. |
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neono
Ist häufiger hier |
21:40
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#14
erstellt: 09. Mai 2010, |||
Auditioning DAC is impractical.. ![]() Need to depend on reviews , Its a risk , i know. ![]()
True ,Mav.audio cant handle jitter. But the Beresford DAC has got excellent reviews too.it oversamples & re-clocks. and is good VFM i think. ![]() ![]() [Beitrag von neono am 09. Mai 2010, 21:46 bearbeitet] |
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Arj
Inventar |
08:01
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#15
erstellt: 10. Mai 2010, |||
The Beresform might just be a better choice since it has been reviewed more widely and you might get some users in India too for some first hand knowledge. |
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sivat
Stammgast |
09:05
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#16
erstellt: 10. Mai 2010, |||
A reimyo DAC is on Sale. Possibly there will also be a Twistead pear Sabre DAC (I believe this is the second generation of the product)..might also shortly come on Sale. Just FYI..incase you are intrested. If intrested, please PM me and i will let you know the contact details of the respective owners. Regards Siva. |
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Amp_Nut
Inventar |
14:35
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#17
erstellt: 17. Mai 2010, |||
Siva Said :
Siva, have you heard this ??? I would love to hear your opinion, or from anyone else whio had heard the product. Incidentally, the Sabre DAC chip (probably? ) provides the best specs on the planet ! |
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sivat
Stammgast |
17:39
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#18
erstellt: 17. Mai 2010, |||
Sabre DAC defintely has its strength. It sounds far more detailed and stage seems much more well defined. But overall I still prefer the wolfonson DAC. Many (BLR) Folks on this forum also have heard the Sabre DAC vs Wolfonson and preferred the Wolfonson by a large margin. |
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sivat
Stammgast |
17:42
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#19
erstellt: 17. Mai 2010, |||
Amp_Nut, I would assume...it depends on your taste and preferences. Nothing like listening to it....wish you were in BLR.... You could fly down here. We will take care of everything including accomodation (you can stay @ my place). Regards Siva. [Beitrag von sivat am 17. Mai 2010, 17:43 bearbeitet] |
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Amp_Nut
Inventar |
18:39
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#20
erstellt: 17. Mai 2010, |||
Hey ! That is DAMM generous and sweet an offer..... Sadly just back from a 10 day vacation, so LOADS of work to catch up on.. Thanks again ! |
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Savyasaachi
Inventar |
06:59
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#21
erstellt: 19. Mai 2010, |||
Wait a min..Siva sir, you told me that you felt that the Sabre DAC sounded superior to your CDP which uses the Wolfson DACs? ALso what is your opinion on buying a used Arcam CD192 or a used Shanling T100? |
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Manek
Inventar |
15:59
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#22
erstellt: 14. Aug 2010, |||
There is a lot of buzz on the net abou these 3 products, supposed to be giant killers. Arcam rdac Nuforce icon hdp Musical fidelity m1 arcam seems to have licensed tech from dcs. Most people who have bought them are raving bout them. Anyone on the forum heard any of the above ? I believe rdac has just begun to ship. The m1 has been around for a few months and the nuforce been around for a year or more. All three are rated better than the dac magic. hdd guys would surely be out to get their hands on these. Regards Manek |
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abhi.pani
Inventar |
18:47
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#23
erstellt: 14. Aug 2010, |||
Manek, DAC Magic is one of the worst implementation of DACs I have ever heard. I would any day prefer a Creative sound card to that DAC Magic. One of the most clinical and zippy digital is how I would describe its sound. Just an fyi. No point comparing other DACs to it. [Beitrag von abhi.pani am 14. Aug 2010, 18:47 bearbeitet] |
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Manek
Inventar |
14:35
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#24
erstellt: 15. Aug 2010, |||
Abhi you are not the only one with that sentiment, a lot of people out there share your view(maybe not as strong a view) and hence the question about the others. Acam I think will do a good job of it. Regards Manek |
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square_wave
Inventar |
06:19
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#25
erstellt: 17. Aug 2010, |||
Wait for a while. There is something on the anvil by someone I know. ![]() |
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SWITCH-IT-ON
Ist häufiger hier |
07:52
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#26
erstellt: 17. Aug 2010, |||
Hello all.... (borrowed from TAS) The 18 Greatest Bargains in High-End Audio (TAS 197) 7. Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC ($4995) The Golden Ear and Product of the Year Award-winning Alpha DAC is not only one of the best-sounding digital-to-analog converters, it’s also an amazing bargain. In addition to world-class decoding of CD sources, the Alpha DAC can handle any sampling rate to 192kHz and word lengths to 24 bit. Its robust analog output stage and variable output level allow it to drive a power amplifier directly. This feature is significant, because the Alpha DAC is capable of such resolution, timbral purity, and dynamics you’ll want to hear it without the limitations of a preamp in the signal path. When used at its best—fed by true high-res sources from a music server, and driving an amplifier directly—the Alpha DAC delivers stunning resolution of the finest musical detail, throws a spectacularly large and well-defined soundstage, and plays back music with gorgeous tone color and purity. A reference-quality product at a moderate price. (Reviewed in TAS 189) |
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bombaywalla
Stammgast |
14:29
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#27
erstellt: 19. Aug 2010, |||
I simply love the way TAS uses the word "bargains" re. audio equipment! ![]() |
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bhagwan69
Inventar |
08:01
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#28
erstellt: 20. Aug 2010, |||
Hi 'heard' the BAD [Berkley Audio Design] & did not care for it much. My DAD was miles ahead. DAD = Digital Audio Denmark. just my 2 cents... |
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Amp_Nut
Inventar |
08:23
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#29
erstellt: 20. Aug 2010, |||
The BAD DAC has received a lot of rave reviews on Audiophile forums, thoug I would not maske that as a valid Litmus Test for Sound Quality. So may other rave reviewed products have failed to impress me. Would have LOVED to hear the BAD myself.... |
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