MC Cart?

Typically MC's are expensive compared to MMs. However recently read about a very reasonable MC somewhere...can check if you like.
Another thing...do you have a MC phono pre?
Considering that you have old vinyl IMO stay with MM.

All MC's are not better than MM. I would request you to reason out why you want to try a MC. RPM 4 tone arm can handle lower end MC but you have to keep your ears open for hum pick up from the motor when playing inner tracks. (Note. I have used RPM 4)

I feel that a better MM ie one with better stylus profile and generator assembly will give you better overall improvment. RPM4 is a budget TT that is too well made for the price, an MC cartridge+MC preamp may work out to an overkill.

Regards

Anil

myriad schrieb:

I have a Shure 97xE fitted on my Project RPM4 table. I am thinking of trying a MC Cart. Which cart will go with my table and arm? I don't want to go for an expensive MC as the majority of my collection consist of old and used vinyl. Thanks.

It all depends on the arm you are using: light- medium- or heavy weight. If you are using the standard Pro-Ject arm on your deck I would go for the legendary Denon DL103. Extremely good value for money!! In Europe they cost around 130 -150 Euros. If you like a very dynamic performance but want more than the DL103 can offer, I would go for a cartridge that is based on the legendary Tubafon/EMT cart. These carts are made by Brinkmann, Einstein, Roksan, vanden Hul (in alpahbetical order without valuation). But they are quite a bit more expensive than the DL103 wich is quite similar to the EMTs.

Jochen

Goolimangala's suggestions for MC cartridges are very good indeed. Infact, they are TOO good for the RPM4 TT. Goolimangala has cited some legendary cartridges whose performances are ones to savour for many years BUT those cartridges must not be insulted (pardon me in advance! ) by putting them on a RPM4 TT.
I'm with Anil on this matter - get a better quality MM that will read the grooves well & give you great music from your LPs. From personal experience: Goldring 1022 or 1042. These MM cartridges are simply superb. When I used to own a Music Hall MMF5, I had the Goldring 1042 on it & it was a delight to listen each time.
If you insist on a MC then, once again, Goldring. They make a series of medium compliance MC cartridges that are also well-priced. Use you favourite search engine to obtain their web address.
If you want to splurge then Goolimangala's suggestion of the Denon DL103 is a very good one.
Another good suggestion (if you want to splurge) is a Dynavector 10X4 or even a 20X4.

Remember: it is FAR better to have a cheap cartridge on a kick-ass TT rather than an expensive cartridge on a cheap TT. The former condition ensures that the cartridge is giving you its best. The latter condition ensures that your TT has choked the cartridge's performance.

I have a Project Phono SE. It accepts MC Cart.
I have read good things about MC but never heard one. That's why curious to try one.
RPM4 can accept cartridges upto 7 grams. The counterweight needs to be replaced to accept any cart beyond 7 grams. (DL103 is 8.5 grams). It can accept DL110, but not sure whether it will be an upgrade over Shure M97xE.
IS it advisable to replace counterweight and go with DL103?

Considering that you have old vinyl IMO stay with MM

hi,

any particular reason mc and old vinyl dont go together? or its just the monetary consideration?

regards

Jeeves schrieb:

Considering that you have old vinyl IMO stay with MM.

i think that this statement is quite out-of-line & inaccurate by a long shot!

i buy most of my vinyl used from LP shows, 2nd-hand LP shops & even the Salvation Army shops & I have a MC cartridge! There NOTHING wrong with used/old vinyl if it has been taken care of well. Of course, when you have chance it when buying but taking a good look @ the grooves in sunlight can quickly reveal whether or not the LPs is likely to be damaged. Of the hundreds of LPs I have just 3 LPs so far have turned out of have groove damage - "Dark Side of the Moon" & Wes Montgomery's "Bumpin'" & Oscar Peterson's "Live from Chicago". That is quite damn good for buying "old vinyl"!

The questions to answer re. MC v. MM are:
(1) is the TT deck good enough to extract the best of the MC cartridge OR is one trying MC just to be on the MC-bandwagon?
(2) Is the tonearm of high quality to extract the best of the MC cart?
The Denon DL103 that Goolimangala suggested is a very low compliance MC cartridge w/ low output voltage. You need to ensure that your tonearm can take such a cartridge otherwise the self-resonance of the cart-tonearm will be inside the audible range. Plus, a light tonearm & a low compliance MC cartridge is a marriage made in Hell!
(3) does one have an appropriate MC phono stage?
The better MC cartridges are very low output (0.1 - 0.4mV). The sound from these types of cartridges is totally mind-blowing.
The high output (2.5mV) MC cartridges, IMHO, just don't get it. they simply do not have the presence of the low output MC cartridges because the generator is just too heavy. They sound better than the 6mV type MM cartridges (most MM cartridges are ~ 6mV output) but nowhere near what a "true" MC cartridge does.
Thus, you will need a really low noise, high gain (60dB) phono stage if you really want to try out one of these low output MC cartriges.
(4) do you really want the MC sound?
MM sound is quite different (in general) from MC sound - it is more rock & roll, bass heavy & more hi-fi-ish. MC sound (in general) is more refined. MC sound is more about getting the subtlties from the grooves, more about macro & micro dynamics, more about creating soundstage width & depth & in general, more about the purity of reproduced sound. MC cartridges, in general, do not wow like a MM cart does.
The question to ask also is whether your music is of the type that will benefit from a MC cartridge?
You could play Deff Lepard/Rolling Stones/Hindi film music, etc using a MC cartridge but that's not using the MC cart well IMHO. A MM cart is more appropriate.
Ever noticed that a number of vinyl-heads have a TT with multiple tonearms & cartidges? Usually they have 1 tonearm-cartridge for 78s & 45s, 1 tonearm-cartridge for classical/Jazz music & 1 tonearm-cartridge for rock & roll.
(5) can the tonearm VTA be adjusted?
it takes a fair amount of tweaking & time to get the MC cartridge to perform correct. MC cartridges are far more sensitive to VTA i.e. often one has to adjust the tonearm mounting location up or down for the particular MC cartridge. is this easy to do for your tonearm? OR, do you have loosen all the screws to do this?
If you have to loosen all the mounting screws, BEWARE! if you are not careful, you will lose the factory mounted location of the tonearm height & you will screw up the performance your MM cartridge as well. Tuning VTA takes a lot of care & some know-how.
One of the best tonearms for changing VTA on-the-fly is the VPI JMW 10 & 12 tonearms - you just turn a finely calibrated vernier while the record is playing! There are other tonearms like this too - I think the Graham Phantom & its predecessor, the Wheaton Tri-planar. All these tonearms, however, cost a mini-fortune.

Some points to consider, Myriad.
Go for the MC cartridge but let it be for the correct reason. Then your enjoyment will also be high.

What would be a decent turntable - tonearm – phonostage to go with the Denon DL 103 assuming one is on a tight budget? The TT should do justice to the cartridge.

square_wave schrieb:

What would be a decent turntable - tonearm – phonostage to go with the Denon DL 103 assuming one is on a tight budget? The TT should do justice to the cartridge.

turntables:
Rega P1/P2/P3
Sota Moonbeam/Comet
VPI Scout (on the expensive side)
Nottingham Horizon/Horizon SE

tonearms:
Rega 250/300
Origin Live OL1
Origin Live Silver (if you want to spend more)
Haddock 228 (maybe a bit expensive)
SMW 3009
VPI JMW9

phonostages:
Pro-ject Phono SE seems OK per the spec sheet. It seems to specify that 0.3mV is the smallest input it could accept. With 56.5dB of MC gain that does make some sense.
Creek OBH-15
Dynavector P-75
Musical Surroundings Phonomena
Hagerman Bugle Pro (order it for MC)

FWIW.

bombaywalla schrieb:

square_wave schrieb: What would be a decent turntable - tonearm – phonostage to go with the Denon DL 103 assuming one is on a tight budget? The TT should do justice to the cartridge. turntables: Rega P1/P2/P3 Sota Moonbeam/Comet VPI Scout (on the expensive side) Nottingham Horizon/Horizon SE tonearms: Rega 250/300 Origin Live OL1 Origin Live Silver (if you want to spend more) Haddock 228 (maybe a bit expensive) SMW 3009 VPI JMW9 phonostages: Pro-ject Phono SE seems OK per the spec sheet. It seems to specify that 0.3mV is the smallest input it could accept. With 56.5dB of MC gain that does make some sense. Creek OBH-15 Dynavector P-75 Musical Surroundings Phonomena Hagerman Bugle Pro (order it for MC) FWIW.

may I add two more phonostages which offer very good value for money?:

Trigon Vaguard II
Lehmann Black Cube

Thanks,
Jochen

Considering that you have old vinyl IMO stay with MM.

I have noticed that old records without major groove damage will play a thousand times better on a better turntable with a MC cartridge having newer stylus profiles, most MM dont make use of the newer profile stylus.

Slight groove damage at the top of the groove due to wear from thicker stylus are not tracked by the thinner modern stylus. This result in reduction of surface noise and lesser distortion.

Thanks guys……

ani schrieb:

I have noticed that old records without major groove damage will play a thousand times better on a better turntable with a MC cartridge having newer stylus profiles, most MM dont make use of the newer profile stylus.

that was 1 reason why I had initially suggested the Goldring 1022 & 1042 cartridges. they do, I believe, use newer profile stylii that sit lower in the groove.

Goldring 1042 MM cartridge

note the text next to "Stylus Type"

They have a high output MC:
Goldring EroicaH MC cartridge

that would do well w/ a MM phono stage + it needs a 47K loading just like a MM!

From my personal experience these are superb cartridges & not very expensive at all. They G1012 comes factory fitted on the MMF5. IMHO these Goldring cartridges are a perfect fit for Pro-ject tonearms (used on Music Hall & Pro-ject TTs).