How to find Matching BS Speakers in Delhi

Hi VJC,

I am sorry I dont experience with the speaker range that you have mentioned.

However, I have a couple of suggestions in general:

1. DONT settle for and buy ANY speakers just because its sounds different.

Buy ONLY if YOU feel the sound is better, and worth the money spent. Or else stay with what you have and save for a bigger upgrade.

2. Bookshelf speakers often do NOT save space. They often need to be placed away from walls... and on stands, taking up space and 'cluttering' the room, to sound their best.

However, bookshelf speakers will often sound better than floor standers in small rooms.

12 x10 is a decent room and you can put a floorstander in it..at the same time a bookshelf/standmount will not be overwhelmed.


the Music that you listen to has a very decent bass content which must be be reproduced well in order to get the best out of it..

considering that fact that oyur amp is 40W/ channel you may need min of a 8 ohms 88db Speaker.

keeping the above in mind i would suggest taking you amp with you for your next audition and playing the speakers with that
.

i presume the MS or tannoys may be easier to drive than the rest. (not sure as to what the actual current rating of your amp is hence even though it says 40 W, it needs to be tested with your speakers ..perhaps in more complex music where there is a lot of bass and variation)

Dear Friends,

Thans for your suggestions. I wonder if I could find a floor stander within my budget (Rs:20000). Diamond 8.3 costs Rs:15K. I plan to audition it. If you guys can suggest some other compatible models from other brands in FS category, it would widen the scope.

Thanks in advance.

vjc

Wharfedales are good. you culd also try Boston Acoustics at Sharda Proacoustics, Panchsheel Park; Jamo at Cinebels; KEF Cresta at Trinity Sound & Vision.

But the best option at this price range would be to try Lyrita Audio Harmony speakers - I think Harmony II should be around your budget or you could pursuade Viren. in fact you must go down to his place and audition them FIRST before you even think about anything else.

Yup.........You are in Delhi right ?
Catch the next taxi to Viren's place dude.
You can choose between the single driver harmony or multi driver floorstander. I don't think there is anything in the market which can touch these at their price points.

Dear Guys,
Thanks for the suggestions. While viewing the specs of certain speakers, I have come across some confusing comparison. The Diamond 8.3 is two way tower speaker (2 drivers) with sensitivity of 86db (6 ohms) whereas Sonodyne Sonus 2605 is a 3 way (4 drivers) speaker with 89db(8 ohms) Sensitivity. Which one will be easy to drive ? It is reminded that my amp is rated at 45 watts (8ohms)/ 60 watts (4ohms) per channel.My impression was that Amp only sees the impedance as load, where as the Shopwala says more no of drivers present heavier load.Pl give some technical funda.Your inputs are welcome.

vjc

Dear Audiophiles/Technophiles,

I keep my fingers crossed.

No replies till date.

Please enlighten me on my post dated 29/1/07

regarding the impedance load dilemma .


Thank you.

vjc

Dear Vjc,
I dont know how to react to this...but with a free hand, I would place a tight kick on the sales mans' butt . I dont know whether he was ignorant or was trying to act too smart...but all in all, its rather non-sense at this level. Broadly its the impedance and the sensitivity which gives a generic picture about how easy the speakers are on your amp. But then there are other more critical things like impedance curve (dips and peaks) etc which also decides the load factor, but as I said, at this level we can safely rely on the impedance and sensitivity figures. An impedance of 6ohms and above is a decent figure, similarly a sensitivity of 88db/watt (at one metre) and above generally implies easy load. The number of drivers normally wouldnt create an issue with the amp as far as entry level speakers and amps are concerned IMO.

Normally, these figures help you select an amp better. If you have a extremely sensitive speaker like the Klipsch (there is one for sale in the buy and sell section ), you are better off with a low powered (even 10 watts would do) but quality amplification (something like a class A or Valve would be great). Similarly with a speaker like Wharfdale Diamond 8.4 (86db and 6 ohms), you would need atleast 50 watts to true power per channel to get to a decent loudness with headroom and quality maintained. In both the cases number of drivers doesnt matter...

VJC,I would back what a couple of other forum members have recommended, viz, give Viren Bakshi a buzz( 9312266549/41401143), fix up a time & hop across with your amp & some fav CDs.
Listen to his speakers, bth single drivers as well as 2 way models.
Viren is a gentleman & he will answer all your qns re impedance etc and not pressurise you with sales talk, but will let you come and audition again & again till you can make up your mind yourself.
He makes excellent speakers and you will be able to use your auditioon of them as a benchmark to guide you in your selection.
Happy Hunting!
Kamal

vjc schrieb:

Dear Guys, Thanks for the suggestions. While viewing the specs of certain speakers, I have come across some confusing comparison. The Diamond 8.3 is two way tower speaker (2 drivers) with sensitivity of 86db (6 ohms) whereas Sonodyne Sonus 2605 is a 3 way (4 drivers) speaker with 89db(8 ohms) Sensitivity. Which one will be easy to drive ? It is reminded that my amp is rated at 45 watts (8ohms)/ 60 watts (4ohms) per channel.

well, the matter is a bit complicated here (but we can straighten it out) because 1 speaker is quote with 6 Ohms & the other with 8 Ohms. So, you just cannot compare them with the numbers provided. You have to EITHER convert the 6 Ohms sensitivity to 8 Ohms OR convert the 8 Ohms sensitivity to 6 Ohms. I decided to do the former.

Now, the other question is: how is the sensitivity spec quote EXACTLY? i.e. does it say "86dB/W/m, 6 Ohms" OR does it say "86dB/2.83V/m, 6 Ohms"?
There is a difference!

If the speaker is 8 Ohms, then 1W input gives 2.83Vrms input voltage & one can write EITHER "89dB/W/m, 8 Ohms" OR "89dB/2.83V/m, 8 Ohms". As my (grade) school Physics teacher (may his soul rest in peace) used to say "one and same"!

For the Wharfdale speaker which is 6 Ohms *if* the sensitivity is "86dB/W/m, 6 Ohms" then, the input signal is only 2.45Vrms. Less than what would be input into an 8 Ohms speaker - obviously, since it is a smaller load impedance, we expect a lower voltage.
This, I believe, is a truer method of measuring speaker SPL. Hence, this speaker would be more difficult to drive w/ your vintage Technics than the Sonodyne. The assumption is that the Sonodyne is spec'd "89dB/W/m, 8 ohms".

If, for the Wharfdale, the sensitivity is "86dB/2.83V/m, 6 Ohms", then, they actually fed into the speaker 1.33W. They actually cheated to artificially boost the speaker SPL.
I calculate an artificial SPL boost of 1.25dB. I.E. the actual sensitivity of the Wharfdale is 86 - 1.25 = 84.75dB/W/m. Thus, making it even harder to drive w/ your low wattage amp. The assumption is that the Sonodyne is spec'd "89dB/W/m, 8 ohms".

In either case, based on the numbers (which usually do not tell the whole story!) get the Sonodyne! FWIW.

vjc schrieb:

My impression was that Amp only sees the impedance as load, where as the Shopwala says more no of drivers present heavier load.Pl give some technical funda.Your inputs are welcome. vjc

I'm standing in line behind Abhi to give this shopwala a kick in his rear-end!

Hi vjc,

I see you are getting very confused with all this play on specifications and numbers.

Forget about them.

Go to your auditions with your favorite music, play that on the systems you select. If the sound is loud enough for you without any distortion, then the combination is fine. Your final selection should be based on how well the system draws you into the music, making you enjoy the music, and helping you forget the equipment!

Viren.

Viren Wrote:

and helping you forget the equipment!

Viren Jee,
Though its the ideal condition, but somehow I have never ever experienced a system which can allow you to forget itself and only leave you and music alone.
I mean for audiophiles (basically obsessed with high end music reproduction) its hard to forget an equipment (during the performance) which is doing such a wonderful job of drawing you into the music..
I have seen and heard speakers disappearing during performances but the appreciation for such a speaker always goes on in your mind...runtime. May be thats the difference between live instrument and a transducer..

Hello abhi.pani,

Of course, live music is an entity by itself. We will never get that duplicated in our homes.

The best we can hope to achieve with our music systems is a facsimile of that. The connection with music should always be there. There are many occasions at home, with the rest of the household asleep, the lights turned low, where I have got immersed in the music. At that time it doesn't matter what I'm playing the music through.

Through the equipment I make I hope others can experience that for themselves.

Viren.

Hmmmmm....nice..

viren schrieb:

There are many occasions at home, with the rest of the household asleep, the lights turned low, where I have got immersed in the music.

I can certainly relate to this.

viren schrieb:

At that time it doesn't matter what I'm playing the music through.

However, I cannot relate to this!

bombaywalla schrieb:

well, the matter is a bit complicated here (but we can straighten it out) because 1 speaker is quote with 6 Ohms & the other with 8 Ohms. So, you just cannot compare them with the numbers provided. You have to EITHER convert the 6 Ohms sensitivity to 8 Ohms OR convert the 8 Ohms sensitivity to 6 Ohms. I decided to do the former. Now, the other question is: how is the sensitivity spec quote EXACTLY? i.e. does it say "86dB/W/m, 6 Ohms" OR does it say "86dB/2.83V/m, 6 Ohms"? There is a difference! If the speaker is 8 Ohms, then 1W input gives 2.83Vrms input voltage & one can write EITHER "89dB/W/m, 8 Ohms" OR "89dB/2.83V/m, 8 Ohms". As my (grade) school Physics teacher (may his soul rest in peace) used to say "one and same"! For the Wharfdale speaker which is 6 Ohms *if* the sensitivity is "86dB/W/m, 6 Ohms" then, the input signal is only 2.45Vrms. Less than what would be input into an 8 Ohms speaker - obviously, since it is a smaller load impedance, we expect a lower voltage. This, I believe, is a truer method of measuring speaker SPL. Hence, this speaker would be more difficult to drive w/ your vintage Technics than the Sonodyne. The assumption is that the Sonodyne is spec'd "89dB/W/m, 8 ohms". If, for the Wharfdale, the sensitivity is "86dB/2.83V/m, 6 Ohms", then, they actually fed into the speaker 1.33W. They actually cheated to artificially boost the speaker SPL. I calculate an artificial SPL boost of 1.25dB. I.E. the actual sensitivity of the Wharfdale is 86 - 1.25 = 84.75dB/W/m. Thus, making it even harder to drive w/ your low wattage amp. The assumption is that the Sonodyne is spec'd "89dB/W/m, 8 ohms".

Thanks Bombaywalla, It's Amchi Mumbai folks like you that make this forum worth reading. What I understood:
If the sensitivity is quoted at 1W/m, it is honest. Alternatively, if the speaker impedance is 8 ohms, then quoting at 2.83V/m is also honest.
For speakers having impedance less than 8 ohms, then only 1W/m quotes are acceptable. Otherwise, the actual sensitivity is less for 6 ohm speakers and much less for 4 ohm speakers that what the manufacturer is showing the public.

viren schrieb:

Hello abhi.pani, Of course, live music is an entity by itself. We will never get that duplicated in our homes. The best we can hope to achieve with our music systems is a facsimile of that. The connection with music should always be there. There are many occasions at home, with the rest of the household asleep, the lights turned low, where I have got immersed in the music. At that time it doesn't matter what I'm playing the music through. Through the equipment I make I hope others can experience that for themselves. Viren.

Viren,
You have given us the reason why we buy hifi in the first place - To get close to the artistes. Otherwise, any boombox can give us SPL. In my personal experience, when distractions are few, you can immerse yourself in the music of great artistes (Dido, Kenny G, Bruce Springsteen, etc).
However, hats off to guys like you who give us the equipment to enable this communion.

Hi Friends!

I had been seraching for speakers for my amp for the past few months. At last I have got it in my room .That too without auditioning it! You may call it suidal, but I had no options.
I had auditioned some of the speakers in Delhi. KEF IQ 7, Sonodyne, Wharfdale, Mordaunt short (MS 904) , Boston Accoustics etc. The KEF speakers sounded good(the trebles sounded sweet with Denon Amplifier) but beyond my budget. Audition of MS 904 sounded lacking in Bass. I found either my budget (which was already revised to 20K) too low for quality or the my options in Delhi limited. Then one of my friend suggested to stick to Tannoy F3 or Mission M33i. The I checked with the Tannoy dealer. I could not audition that model, as the dealer himself was on the run due to MCD sealing action against illegal constructions. Then blindly I ordered for a pair of Mission M33i speakers from Chennai , last month. (After I knew that the sensitivity of 90 db would drive my amp) The indicated price of Mission was Rs.5000/ less compared to Tannoy.

But to my surprise( and relief to my tensions !) I found the speakers quite musical and the amplifer driving the speakers with ease. The sound is well balanced( may be bright amp and laid back speaker matched), the depth reasonably good, dynamics very good and the bass tight with the amp in 'tone defeat' position.
The only drawback I noticed is that there is a 'Thump'(hump) in the mid bass, may be to suit the home theater needs, which sometimes irritating in certain songs. ( I may have to upgrade to home theater later!) However overall I found a good presentation of music when I listened to " Lee Ritenour", "Stanley Clarke", "Spyro Gyra", "Jean Luc Ponty" "Manhattean Jazz Quintet" etc . Rock and Jazz-rock(fusion) enjoyable.

I have a pioneer DVD player as my source, which I plan to replace with a pure cd player. Your valuable suggestions are welcome.

I thank you all for the various inputs I received either directly and indirectly.

( I had the third option of Virens single driver speakers in my back of mind. But as I understood later from the discussions in this site somewhere, I did not have an open mind to go for Tube amplifer to match the speakers for which, I suppose they are designed)

Regards to one and all,

vjc

I'd suggest you give the KEF iQ5 a listen.