HIFI-FORUM » Reparatur & Wartung » Elektronik (Stereo&Surround) » Lautsprecher und Subwoofer » Fischer Audio Anthaeus: grand repair | |
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Fischer Audio Anthaeus: grand repair+A -A |
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Autor |
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Machalik
Neuling |
#1 erstellt: 28. Sep 2015, 01:28 | |||
Dear high-end enthusiasts, First off, I would like to apologise for using English in this thread. I don't speak German well enough to be able to have a conversation, although I can certainly use Google Translate to read German if you use it. I don't want to insult you by using it for writing in German, so I will write in English. Please bear with me if you can. I would like to take use this opportunity to create a thread about the famous and rare speaker Fischer Audio Anthaeus. I first learned about the Anthaeus existence in 2006 when a pair was for sale on eBay. I couldn't afford them back then and they became my dream speaker. In the next 9 years, they almost never occured on the market: I register four (4) pairs advertised for sale between 2007 and today. I have purchased that fourth pair from Germany and brought them home to the Czech Republic. I believe they are the only pair in the Czech Republic and Slovakia (nobody knows them here) and I dare say that even about Poland and Hungary. As can be expected, there is a number of problems with them as they are ~25 years old. Mostly, it's the electronics that are faulty. I have the Anthaeus Aktiv Turbo version with 8 power amplifiers per channel (2 + 2 bridged for the woofers). There is a gentleman on this forum who has the Anthaeus Aktiv with 6 woofers per channel. He is also experiencing issues with his pair, although of different kind. My problems are purely sonical: they sound quite bad, to be honest. The sound is scattered, chaotic, non-balanced and aggressive with thundering, booming bass on a handful of frequencies only. Besides the bad sound in general, I also have issues with individual drivers turning off and on again randomly during music - there are numerous Wackelkontakten in the speakers. When I play piano, both bottom mid-bass planars and both midranges produce crackling noises on top of the music. The bottom planars are silent half the time. The right tweeter also turns off iregularly. Also, the woofers have new Basssicken installed by the previous owner. Rubber Sicken instead of polyurethane, from the top of the membrane instead of the bottom. It's a mess. I have decided to fully repair and restore this pair of Anthaeus to its proper functionality. In order to do that, during the past month, I have been communicating with various authorities such as Walter Fuchs, Axel Schäffer (SAC), Roland Gauder (Isophon) and more and they gave me bits of information that will hopefully help me in achieving my goal. Thank you gentlemen! Yet, a lot of information is still missing. I would like to call out all Anthaeus/Cantabile owners, ex-owners and fans to help me gather as much technical information as possible. To give you an example on what I still don't know: - What Basssicken should be used when the original ones disintegrate? Is it the ones for Isophon PSL 320/400? The woofers in the Anthaeus are based on that driver. - What is the proper amount of damping material in the speaker? My pair is pathologically overdampened, there are tons of wool stuffed in every crevice. That can't be right. - How should the little red trimmers be set by default? Are they only to compensate little variances between individual drivers or do they serve some more peculiar purpose, like creating a specific curve on the overall frequency characteristic? - Did anyone ever measure the Anthaeus? Could you share their measurements? To illustrate what I have already done, I have created a simple website about the repair project I am going to undertake. Whoever is interested, please read through it and feel free to comment on anything that catches your eye. I am going to be expanding that website on almost daily basis now. That said, I am going to do the repair here in the Czech Republic with local technicians and servicemen unless there is an obstacle that can't be overcome. I am not going to ship every faulty component (which is everything) to Germany for multi-thousand EUR repairs with zero visibility into the process, which is something I have been offered. Woofers reconing for 1k EUR. Electronics overhaul for 5k EUR. The list goes on. This is out of scope. I want to understand what is wrong with the speakers and how it gets fixed and pay the necessary costs, not ship something out and receive something back and know nothing about what changed. It would be awesome if we could have participation from various Anthaeus owners in this thread. The more I learn the better the chance I will get everything right. Besides, this (and my page) could become a great knowledge foundation for every future Anthaeus owner since there is not a single website on the internet that would have all the information on one place. This could benefit us all. Thank you very much everyone and, once again, sorry for the English. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Jiri Brno, Czech Republic |
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Pilotcutter
Administrator |
#2 erstellt: 28. Sep 2015, 09:33 | |||
Hello Jiri, we welcome you in our Forum. You might noticed, I shifted this thread into the sub-category "Repair & Maintenance". Hopefully you'll get the information still missing, but even if not, feel free to follow up this topic and keep us posted about your progess. It might be also of interest for some readers in later times. Good luck and success! Brgds. Olaf [Beitrag von Pilotcutter am 28. Sep 2015, 12:25 bearbeitet] |
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Nick11
Inventar |
#3 erstellt: 29. Sep 2015, 07:47 | |||
There is this Stereoplay review back in 1989 that comes to my mind. I guess you already have a copy of that?
Have you already contacted Klangmeister in Lemgo regarding the woofers? I have just visited their "Experience days" last weekend. According to their Price list this should only be around 90 € per piece + shipping. They do also have a lot of experience with those 80's or 90's classics and do offer additional services. In order to try and test the electronics step by step you could go for a Mini DSP 4x10 and a (cheap or not) AVR or power amp with at least 8 channels. Much cheaper than 5k EUR and at the end of the day possibly even better.... [Beitrag von Nick11 am 29. Sep 2015, 07:53 bearbeitet] |
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Machalik
Neuling |
#4 erstellt: 29. Sep 2015, 14:39 | |||
Hello Nick, Thanks for your response! Indeed I have the Stereoplay review of old. Unfortunately, the measurement there is quite unusable, there is too little detail in it. I have plenty of various datasheets and links in the Schematics section. Let's talk about the woofers first: They are custom woofer based on the Isophon PSL 320/400 (not sure which version exactly). It was modified heavily to achieve the characteristics Walter Fuchs desired. - Here are the TSP values of the original Isophon woofer: datasheet - Here are the TSP values of the custom Anthaeus woofer: datasheet You will notice the impedance measurement is completely different between the custom woofer (~18 Hz) and my woofers (~28 Hz): That is perhaps because the rubber sicken are a lot stiffer hence moving the resonance frequency upwards. I hope to be able to retrieve the exact type of polyurethane Sicken so that I can buy them and install them. Currently, I am in contact with Dr. Haeder (LuP Berlin) who helped make the customisation to the original Isophon woofer. Ideally, I would like to buy four Sicken and have them installed locally without shipping to Germany. That alone will cost 500 EUR + potential 400 EUR for installing new Sicken = I am at the 1k EUR already. If that was necessary, I will ship directly to Mr. Haeder (LuP Berlin). Regarding the electronics, I'll first need to see how much messed up they are, that should become evident in the next few weeks. So far I don't plan on replacing them with anything else. If I did, SAC is offering the whole package at ~5k EUR. Externalising the electronics using a different crossover and an AVR is out of question, my goal is to restaurate these speakers :) Thanks! |
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Nick11
Inventar |
#5 erstellt: 29. Sep 2015, 14:43 | |||
Just around the Corner there is a dedicated thread for reconing services: http://www.hifi-foru...rum_id=225&thread=10 BTW, isn't that your pair of speakers? Ebay.de link August 2015 |
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Machalik
Neuling |
#6 erstellt: 29. Sep 2015, 15:06 | |||
That's them! :) I read that thread but there is only one instance when user Quadro-Action is talking about the Isophon PSL 320/400 and its repair at LuP Berlin in 2005. I suspect he had the Isophon Vertigo back then. But you are right that LuP Berlin is being asked about in the very last post, not a week old, so I will add in. Hope the guys won't hate me for speaking English. [Beitrag von Machalik am 29. Sep 2015, 15:15 bearbeitet] |
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Machalik
Neuling |
#7 erstellt: 06. Okt 2015, 22:45 | |||
Dear gentlemen, I see that the Anthaeus is not the most favourite speaker around here I have moved on with the repair since last post. First, I have found out that the band pass enclosures should not be dampened at all, or just minimally, because there is no standing wave to be dampened in them. Indeed, similar constructions have barely any damping in them: Isophon Vertigo ACR RP-400 (the wool is custom again, original only has foam triangles on walls) Compare with my Anthaeus: For the record, all driver enclosures were completely packed with wool, leaving literally no space behind them. The pressure of wool was such that it lifted the 8 kg heavy top woofers out of the enclosures when I loosened the screws. The wool is all out of the speakers now, as are all drivers and electronic modules. They are now in repair and the service man is undoing all custom modifications that the pre-previous owner had made to them (such as the disabled Level controller, inverted polarities of capacitors and more). |
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Machalik
Neuling |
#8 erstellt: 06. Okt 2015, 22:54 | |||
Also, we keep measuring the drivers. It appears that my Anthaeus contains two matched pairs of the large FS41RP planars, as can be seen on their impedance charts taken in free air (no crossover, no box): Pairing is also visible on the SPL charts, this time the planars are already put back in the box. Nearfield, 10 cm, no crossover: Farfield, 100 cm, no crossover: This is the FS21RP midranges in both nearfield and farfield in an enclosure: This is all these drivers' impedance when put back to the enclosures dampened with a moderate amount of BASF Basotect and Monacor MDM-2 wool in them. I have yet to perfect this. And, for those who are interested, on my page you can find even the measurements of each driver's distortion. I will keep you posted. Thanks anyone who is interested and willing to contribute with information. |
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Machalik
Neuling |
#9 erstellt: 06. Okt 2015, 22:56 | |||
PS: Last piece of info: Dr. Gert Haeder advised that the proper woofer surround for the Anthaeus custom woofer can be bought from Dr. Kurt Müller and has the part number of FR 274/2. |
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Nick11
Inventar |
#10 erstellt: 17. Okt 2015, 10:48 | |||
Thank you. Good luck and keep posting! |
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Soundofvoid
Schaut ab und zu mal vorbei |
#11 erstellt: 30. Okt 2015, 09:43 | |||
Hi Jiri! This is Ioannis from Greece. We had a talk some years ago about a Quadral Titan MKV that you bought from Switzerland...remember? Funny that years later i am in exactly the same situation...almost! A friend with home space problems decided to sell his beloved Infinity IRS BETAS and i advised him to get the Anthaeus as a more compact solution with roughly the same sound...plus all the internal amplification. He did it about a year ago, and now we are (actually i am doing it) in the proccess of restoring them to their former glory...including a respray in black piano gloss. I am doing a total capacitance renewal as one in the main reservoir blew when the speaker was turned on. Maybe we can work together in this and share findings! My mail is konjohn@hotmail.com and you can contact me anytime. |
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