AV Show

hi,

definitely agree with you. Inspite of my little experience with audiotioning great sounding setups, the Gamut room was the magical. strangely the dire strait song that they played still haunting me after two weeks.

Cadence setup looked great but was sonically not such a tour de force, at least to my ears... i mean there's a lot of critical praise online thus leading to great expectations from cadence... But this is as far as I have a right to comment as its the first time I heard anything from cadence...


- vikram.

audiojet schrieb:

hi, definitely agree with you. Inspite of my little experience with audiotioning great sounding setups, the Gamut room was the magical. strangely the dire strait song that they played still haunting me after two weeks. Cadence setup looked great but was sonically not such a tour de force, at least to my ears... i mean there's a lot of critical praise online thus leading to great expectations from cadence... But this is as far as I have a right to comment as its the first time I heard anything from cadence... - vikram.

Dear Audiojet
The show got over just 4 days ago. :).Lost track of time methinks.
Regards deaf

deaf schrieb:

audiojet schrieb: hi, definitely agree with you. Inspite of my little experience with audiotioning great sounding setups, the Gamut room was the magical. strangely the dire strait song that they played still haunting me after two weeks. Cadence setup looked great but was sonically not such a tour de force, at least to my ears... i mean there's a lot of critical praise online thus leading to great expectations from cadence... But this is as far as I have a right to comment as its the first time I heard anything from cadence... - vikram. Dear Audiojet The show got over just 4 days ago. :).Lost track of time methinks. Regards deaf

That's what we call true magic

guys.....

i hope it was in bangalore......how was the show guys?.......which equipment and makes were there?.....please throw some details on the show and ur experiences........where did this show happen?.....

edges

I was there for the show on Saturday and Sunday...The Gamut setup was extremly good but the speakers lacked sound stage and image...for me the best setup was Energy Reference speakers with Cambridge Audio.The sound was fantastic !The Avant Garde was as usual very loud and there was not a single person to demonstrate and to make it worst they also had the Jm labs home theater setup in the same hall which created a havoc !I'm still wondering why did they made this mistake.I can tell you this show was not for the audio holics !I found almost everyone interested in Multimedia and big screens ! What a pity........more to come...

True_sound schrieb:

I was there for the show on Saturday and Sunday...The Gamut setup was extremly good but the speakers lacked sound stage and image...

I went on Saturday. Though the GamuT setup blew me away, I too noticed a few inconsistencies in the image. Especially on LF stuff like double bass plucks and the like. I know bass isn't usually directional but the bassist can be pinpointed om many a decent system. Felt the soundstage ws good though.

Hi members, a question to both the above members,ever go to a live unmiked event?If not,do go to one,it will shed better light on the proceedings in the Gamut room.On Dave Mattew the drumkit was clearly 2 feet outside and infront of the left speaker while the guitarist was inside and behind the right speaker with the lead singer bang in the centre.If that is not imaging I don't know what is.All these images were life size, and not small concentrated pinpoints, as it truly happens in real life.
But imaging is a secondary target, tonal balance is first, and that room had great tone assisted with spectacular speed and timing.No hifi artifacts as SBFX earlier put it.Think about it.
Regards Deaf.

True_sound schrieb:

I was there for the show on Saturday and Sunday...The Gamut setup was extremly good but the speakers lacked sound stage and image...for me the best setup was Energy Reference speakers with Cambridge Audio.The sound was fantastic !The Avant Garde was as usual very loud and there was not a single person to demonstrate and to make it worst they also had the Jm labs home theater setup in the same hall which created a havoc !I'm still wondering why did they made this mistake.I can tell you this show was not for the audio holics !I found almost everyone interested in Multimedia and big screens ! What a pity........more to come...

Sir,

The Imaging was in spades without a doubt in my mind; I spent close to 4-5hrs in the room for the 3 days in the show and also was listening to it for very long after the show was over on Sunday night with very few people.

About the Avantgarde setup yes was very loud not for a audiophile who likes to listen at sane voloumes
Regards,

Satyam.

deaf schrieb:

Hi members, a question to both the above members,ever go to a live unmiked event?If not,do go to one,it will shed better light on the proceedings in the Gamut room.On Dave Mattew the drumkit was clearly 2 feet outside and infront of the left speaker while the guitarist was inside and behind the right speaker with the lead singer bang in the centre.If that is not imaging I don't know what is.All these images were life size, and not small concentrated pinpoints, as it truly happens in real life. But imaging is a secondary target, tonal balance is first, and that room had great tone assisted with spectacular speed and timing.No hifi artifacts as SBFX earlier put it.Think about it. Regards Deaf.

To answer your question, yes Deaf, I have been to an unmiked performance. I do not say that imaging wasn't accurate at all. Just on a few passages, I couldn't correctly place the double bass. The GamuT room otherwise was immaculate.

Shahrukh schrieb:

deaf schrieb: Hi members, a question to both the above members,ever go to a live unmiked event?If not,do go to one,it will shed better light on the proceedings in the Gamut room.On Dave Mattew the drumkit was clearly 2 feet outside and infront of the left speaker while the guitarist was inside and behind the right speaker with the lead singer bang in the centre.If that is not imaging I don't know what is.All these images were life size, and not small concentrated pinpoints, as it truly happens in real life. But imaging is a secondary target, tonal balance is first, and that room had great tone assisted with spectacular speed and timing.No hifi artifacts as SBFX earlier put it.Think about it. Regards Deaf. To answer your question, yes Deaf, I have been to an unmiked performance. I do not say that imaging wasn't accurate at all. Just on a few passages, I couldn't correctly place the double bass. The GamuT room otherwise was immaculate.

Dear Shahrukh,
Having been to live performances, it will immediately dawn upon you that a double bass does not image precisely unless the venue has the correct acoustics.
Secondly, considering less than idle hotel acoustcics the sound was pretty spectacular.
Timing my friend is the key to a well gelled music performance as earlier mentioned by you.I think you should have heard Fleetwood Mac whlst there, you may be familiar with that band, as regards timing.
Regards Deaf.

Dear Shahrukh, Having been to live performances, it will immediately dawn upon you that a double bass does not image precisely unless the venue has the correct acoustics. Secondly, considering less than idle hotel acoustcics the sound was pretty spectacular. Timing my friend is the key to a well gelled music performance as earlier mentioned by you.I think you should have heard Fleetwood Mac whlst there, you may be familiar with that band, as regards timing.

True. Very true. My post does talk about the non-directionality of lower frequencies if you notice. I haven't anywhere said I was dissapointed in the GamuT imaging. I'm just refering to something I noticed while listening. I even pointed it out. But it's only when Fram went and stood at the spot where the bassist was supposed to be did I pyschologically agree where the bassist was. BTW, we were listening to Diana Krall's Love Scenes

I did'nt say Gamut was poor in all aspects but guys who had a good listening should agree it does not worth the cost ! I have auditioned Karma,Eggleston,Thiel etc in Singapore which are far superior than this Gamut.When you evaluate few of these setup's will cost lesser than is Gamut setup ..... Does anyone disagrees with me.

True_sound schrieb:

I did'nt say Gamut was poor in all aspects but guys who had a good listening should agree it does not worth the cost ! I have auditioned Karma,Eggleston,Thiel etc in Singapore which are far superior than this Gamut.When you evaluate few of these setup's will cost lesser than is Gamut setup ..... Does anyone disagrees with me.

Dear True Sound,
You are absolutely right.I guess Shahrukh and SBFX and Bhagwan don't know what they are talking about.BTW it would be nice to know what you use as your setup, to understand your commercial angle better;know what I mean?
Regards Deaf.

Dear Deaf,

Does that matter ?

deaf schrieb:

I guess Shahrukh and SBFX and Bhagwan don't know what they are talking about.

Dear Deaf,

I feel it's you who doesn't know what I'm talking about. I'm expressing a personal opinion I had about my listening experience. You were not with me at the time and you don't understand the experience I went through. I don't think you have any right judge me. Or for that matter pass comments on what I know or not know.

Audiophilia is all about personal taste as far as I know. They say our ears are the most sophisticated pieces of equipment. Music for you may be noise to me. A wide soundstage for me may be "virtual headphones" to u. You have no right to tell me what is "wrong" or "right".

Nowhere in my postings have I maligned the GamuT system or disagreed to the praise it has received. I keep saying it's a splendid stereo system. Yes, I have stated an opinion which you did not experience. Hence, you sir, have no clue about what you are talking about.

But then, why am I trying to get a point accross to someone who calls himself "Deaf"?

PS: I respect and agree with you for a lot of posts you have made on this forum Deaf. But I think anyone who tells another that he doesn't know what he's talking about when he states an opinion is a snob. It's the reason audiophilia has earned the reputation of being a "snobby" rather than a hobby. No matter how experienced and learned an "audiophile" you claim you are, the minute you start maligning another, you lose your respect.

Deaf do you represent Gamut in India?

I agree with Shahrukh as taste dffers from person to person.......

deaf wrote: I guess Shahrukh and SBFX and Bhagwan don't know what they are talking about. Dear Deaf, I feel it's you who doesn't know what I'm talking about. I'm expressing a personal opinion I had about my listening experience. You were not with me at the time and you don't understand the experience I went through. I don't think you have any right judge me. Or for that matter pass comments on what I know or not know. Audiophilia is all about personal taste as far as I know. They say our ears are the most sophisticated pieces of equipment. Music for you may be noise to me. A wide soundstage for me may be "virtual headphones" to u. You have no right to tell me what is "wrong" or "right". Nowhere in my postings have I maligned the GamuT system or disagreed to the praise it has received. I keep saying it's a splendid stereo system. Yes, I have stated an opinion which you did not experience. Hence, you sir, have no clue about what you are talking about. But then, why am I trying to get a point accross to someone who calls himself "Deaf"? PS: I respect and agree with you for a lot of posts you have made on this forum Deaf. But I think anyone who tells another that he doesn't know what he's talking about when he states an opinion is a snob. It's the reason audiophilia has earned the reputation of being a "snobby" rather than a hobby. No matter how experienced and learned an "audiophile" you claim you are, the minute you start maligning another, you lose your respect.

Shahrukh,he means it in he irony, methinks.The man's not trying to disparage your observation, quite the opposite, he holds all your observations in great esteem

Irony? What irony Krish? He clearly states we don't kow what we are talking about.

Anyway, if dear Deaf can explain himself as to how "he holds all our observations in great esteem" it would put this matter to an end!

Shahrukh schrieb:

Irony? What irony Krish? He clearly states we don't kow what we are talking about. Anyway, if dear Deaf can explain himself as to how "he holds all our observations in great esteem" it would put this matter to an end!

Dear Shahrukh
Krish has understood my comment properly,I do hold your opinion in high esteem.We do know each other personally as Fram introduced us.I pointed out the timing issue to you between two bookshelf speakers,remember,so you will agree I can hear a bit.If I remember correctly you are musically trained, and instantly understood the difference in bassist and drummer timing issues.Rock on dude.
Regards Deaf.

True_sound schrieb:

Dear Deaf, Does that matter ?

Dear True Sound,
A smart guy like you understands a smart guy like me .It works the other way round too. .
Regards Deaf.

newtohifi schrieb:

Deaf do you represent Gamut in India?

Dear Newtohifi,
According to the visiting card ,Gamut contact is HERMIT AUDIO PVT LTD.Tel no 9321231772.
I wish I could have that system though.
Regards Deaf.

I do hold your opinion in high esteem.

Deaf,
Ok maybe I overreacted there. But you did sound like you were ridiculing me!
Anyway, now that I know who u are I guess we can have a looong listening session someday and debate what I mean on the spot! Now that you cleared that out... no offence taken.

PS: You know, I had a doubt. But then said naaaaah! I remember you saying "maybe u did meet someone there and didn't know".

Shahrukh schrieb:

I do hold your opinion in high esteem. Deaf, Ok maybe I overreacted there. But you did sound like you were ridiculing me! Anyway, now that I know who u are I guess we can have a looong listening session someday and debate what I mean on the spot! Now that you cleared that out... no offence taken. PS: You know, I had a doubt. But then said naaaaah! I remember you saying "maybe u did meet someone there and didn't know".

Dear Shahrukh
I can get a little humourously sarcastic, but I wasn't taking pot shots at you,I just used your shoulder along with SBFX's shoulder to fire the gun. .Hope you don't mind. .
Regards Deaf.

Dear Deaf,


I dont think I'm as smart as you.....

True_sound schrieb:

I did'nt say Gamut was poor in all aspects but guys who had a good listening should agree it does not worth the cost ! I have auditioned Karma,Eggleston,Thiel etc in Singapore which are far superior than this Gamut.When you evaluate few of these setup's will cost lesser than is Gamut setup ..... Does anyone disagrees with me.

Hi True_sound,

I just noticed your post therefore the late question that I'm going to ask; well where did you audition the Kharma? and which one? I too recently auditioned Kharma and Eggleston as for Thiel they are not my type of sound very american :D.

The Eggleston (ISABEL) I had auditioned in HK with a Avid TT dont really remember the amp, it was good but lacked body(colour)maybe it was the room or the electronics but I was surely nice I could relate to the sound because of the Esotar as I have the same tweeter in my speaker.

As for the Kharma I heard Exquisite Mini which has a ridiculious retail and to top it all it was O.K. seriously nothing to write home about but yes a friend who I was traveling with liked what it did in the bass section and fell in love with fit and finish.

I just want to understand how does a Karma at maybe 3 times is a better buy?

Please understand I'm not getting a cheque from the Gamut guys here but just out of curiosity want to understand your post better.


Regards,

Satyam.

I hadheard the egglestone works Andra and had been very impresed by it. i believe itis british..very neutral and should be very good with warm eletronics.

Very very Solid and heavy speakers !

[quote="True_sound"]I did'nt say Gamut was poor in all aspects but guys who had a good listening should agree it does not worth the cost ! I have auditioned Karma,Eggleston,Thiel etc in Singapore which are far superior than this Gamut.When you evaluate few of these setup's will cost lesser than is Gamut setup ..... Does anyone disagrees with me.[/quote]

Sir, cost is a different angle; The products that you mentioned are not cheap either. Except the Thiel, that is sold in Chennai by Audio People the other 2 brands you mentioned are not even sold in India. I am sorry, Eggleston was done by Sunny Chibber in New Delhi [Krell & Tannoy Dealer], but I am not so sure if he managed to sell a single pair.

The Kharma is Singapore is sold by High End Research [Mr. Anthony Goh] & the cable that he used to cnnect the Kharma to the Goldmund Power Amplifier cost more than the GamuT L5. The speaker on demo costs 45 K Euro.

The Eggies have changed ownership some time back & have been re-designed.
http://www.egglestonworks.com/index2.htm

Comming back to your comment about price, to the best of my humble understanding, the entire GamuT Set Up was priced @ Rs. 16/- lacs [give a take a bit]. This excludes the Speaker Cable & Power Conditioner & Power Cables. Now that is not cheap by a mile, I agree but, none of the Eggies nor the Kharma will come at that price point & None of them are available in India - as yet at least. Kharma might come in [so I have heard], but when ever that happens I will be very very happy. I like their speakers.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

p.s. I have nothing to do with Hermit Audio in any manner, but I liked what I heard @ Hyatt [there were a few flaws in the set up, but that was due to the room size & nothing to do with the speakers or electronics].
I would like to go to their showroom & listen to them [L5] again before I make any further comments.

the kharmas, Marten Monks etc of the world are speakers to hear and then see how well your humble setup matches up . I doubt if they are ever going to sound Bad unless there is a serious problem witrh the room.

And in all these $5000 and above speakers, I doubt if i would be able to point to any sonic problem other than the fact if the sound matches my taste or not.. Above $2000, from my limited experience, there is very little improvement in sound Per $...

makes more sense to spend them monies on Music and room treatment

Marten Monks ? What is that ? Never Heard of the Company ?

There is Martin Logan & Marten Design & Martion Audio. These are the 3 audio companies that I know off with the name Martin / Marten. Please do shed some light on Marten Monks !!! thanks.

"I doubt if they are ever going to sound Bad unless there is a serious problem witrh the room".

You will be surprised !!! Some of the gear that is so well talked about & wonderfully reviewed does not sound as good !!!! It is not the room only, it is also syatem matching & set up. That to me is a very very important component. How well does the person that is setting up the gear know his gear & can he maximise the product to extract the best from it.

"And in all these $5000 and above speakers, I doubt if i
would be able to point to any sonic problem other than the fact if the sound matches my taste or not.. Above $2000, from my limited experience, there is very little improvement in sound Per $..."

Sir, here again you will be surprised. I am sure you have auditioned & listened to a lot of gear. However, @ 5K US $'s we are still in the mid-fi game. Once you cross the 15K price barrier, things will change drastically.
I will give you a simple example, all of us must have geard the 801N from B & W @ TAJ Landsend Audio Show 2 years back [it got the sound of the show award]. That was good by 'most' people that attended that show. That speaker has a retail price of US $'s 11/- K [if I am not wrong]. Now if you listen to the 800N which is @ 16/- K US $'s you will never believe that things can get so much better & that both the speakers are from the same stable.
The 800N will 'kill' the 801N and you will wonder what it was in the 801N that was so liked by you.

One aspect of what you mention, I do agree with, i.e. after a particular point, as one climbs up the ladder, for a very small improvement in sound, the price to be paid is exponentially higher. Hence, Hi-FI is said to have a deminishing return on price increase.

'makes more sense to spend them monies on Music and room treatment'

I agree with the 1st part, spend money on your room !! That is very very important, but on Music, I am not so sure, it is very very difficult to get good software [well recorded i.e.]. Trust me, I Know !! [3,250 CD's & counting].

You can buy music, but on a good set up, it cannot be listened to, the system just shreads the recording & there is no satisfaction is listening to it any more. A cheaper more forgiving set up is much metter for 'most' of the music that is available !! Sad but True !!!

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

P.S. I heard the Kharma Exquisite Reference MIDI [diamond] through Pass Labs XA 160 & Pass Labs X 0.1 pre amplifier & Metronome 4 box Reference CD Playback with cables from Kharma [System cost was in excess of 250 K US $'s] & it was average at best !!!!!!This was 2 months back !!! Great Gear that is not well matched & not appropriately set up will not yield the best results.

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Marten Monks ? What is that ? Never Heard of the Company ?

OOPs Meant the Marten design.. had heard their model Called the Monk
I think I can blame it on severe lack of sleep for this once.

But honestly.. would find it very hard to justify that kind of money even to myself.

This is the one I was talking about..

http://www.martendesign.com/english/index_eng.html

Nice to know that they named their speakers after Jazz Artists.. although they rock well tooo

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Trust me, I Know !! [3,250 CD's & counting].

I trust you buddy, but honestly still disagree (As we fence sitters say Gently disagree! ) But then I Am still only at around 350 CDs though still counting. and have self confessed tin ears.

To me I have been very rarely able to diffrentiate or rather find a problem with a Grand Slamm,or a 801 or a Avant garde Duo (this one had more emotion though) in terms of deficiencies. yes there are differences in the weight and body of music but I could never say if it is due to the speaker itself due to My music preferece or due to the Room itself or simply due to system matching

But then again I am really glad for my tin ear and the enjoyment of music it is giving me .. and sincerely would not want to upgrade to a golden ear and change the current state ! Having spent so much of Time/effort and money on system matching, would break my heart to change it for something else.. especially if i get to the cable difference thingie i would go mad! (Although now my speaker cable costs 6 times mt secondary amp )

But what What has amazed me is the sheer variety of Music and how little I have been exposed to. Have just discovered folk music of the "Music de Monde" variety and am enjoying the sound of Bamboo instruments and the Kodos drummers, the recording may not be really great but the music is powerful.. so honestly do not even think about gear these days.. and fervently hope it remains that way.

Maybe when I get to the magik 3K CD number Ill think about it but that is waay off for me as i still have more than enough in my current repetoire to really listen to !