Cdp Upgrade

i would suggest getting the best DAC u can buy for that cost (Can u get hold of a Benchmark DAC-1 ?)and continue with the NAD as transport. u get a bigger upgrade that way

Some options which are good are
MSB Link
Dack!ack
Benchmark
Lavry DA10
AudioNote 1.1


then there are a couple of MIC DACs but do not know much on them

[quote="myriad"]Hello folks,
I am looking to upgrade my Nad Cd542 .
The associated equipment is Cayin TA30 & Cadence Diva.
I listen mostly to jazz, old rock and some classical.
The budget is 50k max.
Thanks[/quote]

The new Opera Consonance CD Players have arrived.
Call Sound Smiths & they will offer one to you !!

I think they are good player - I heard them 2 months back in Taipei - High End Show.

They should be in your budget.

There is also a SACD Player from Cayin that I like very very much. It is very reasonably price.
This too is sold by Mr. Viru. His number is + 91 9323111889 [M].

The links for both the products is :-

http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=16536 [cayin sacd player]

http://www.operaudio.com/products/sources-cdplay.htm [OPERA CONSONANCE]

I am aware that both these are Chinese Players.

But they sure play better than most 'non chinese' players & are definately better than the Shangling.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

Also try the Musical Fidelity DAC and thier tube buffer. They make pretty good DAC that are good value for money.

I think Audio People in Chennai are the indian distributor for MF. Maybe some of our chennai forum members can check the price for the same..

Since quality of transport is also important to the overall result, you could also checkout hi-end CD players that are available in the market. For less than 50K you will get Marantz CD17 & SA8400. You could also hunt for Cyrus 8, Arcam CD192, Sony XA3000,MF XRAY V3, etc.,

Cheers
Siva.

I would opine that you go with Arj's suggestion..
tyr the Benchmark's Dac-1(995$) or even the MSB is supposed to be great..
best mods that you could make for ur CDP would be to improve the power supply by replacing the caps with Black Gate..see if u can replace the output Opamps with the OPA627/637...don't know about modding clock..

hi myriad,

there's a jolida tube based cdp. 51 k. with oceanic pune, the cadence guys. since u already have the diva i presume u know the guys there

Jolida's are not known for their reliability....good products but from what i read the reliability is low..
Instead try the Unico from Unison Research.
must cost around 80k in Dubai.

hmmmm no wonder there arent' too many jolida amps or players around. the sound was divine though

Benchmark Dac 1 is the best option, but then these are not available in India.
The second good option is Opera Consonance but before that i have to go through reviews and get in contact with Mr. Aditya Gupta regarding the prices and availability.
Thank you guys for your valuable suggestion.

If you have someone in the US who is travelling take that option.. it is really good. the Lavry DA10 which is just launched is also in the smame league and sam cost (has a 2 week waiting time)

Both offer digital volume control.

Consonance CDPs is good (I had heard the 2.2 version) and has a digital volume control its Very well built, but better not to use it for volume control as the resolution reduces at lower volumes. It has a tube output stage.

Jolidas are not what they were..hence suggest you leave the for the time being (the JD100H is a better option than the 100a)

The MSB is a very good option and is available 2nd Hand..again u need to have someone travelling from US/Singapore for this..but it is cheaper and very good.

benkenobi schrieb:

best mods that you could make for ur CDP would be to improve the power supply by replacing the caps with Black Gate..see if u can replace the output Opamps with the OPA627/637...don't know about modding clock..

The 542 does have design flaws, but based on my experience the following changes will make them equivalent to the putput of an MSB (Have done a A/B on it)

The follwowing is a copy paste from a mail after my frien modded by CDP, . it does not make sense to me but you can speak to ben, who i am sure will understand it better

"changes to the following:

-two sets of rectifier diodes changed to International Rectifier schottky diodes (8 pcs)
- main caps for +/-12V regulator (the gold Nichicons), all post-regulator caps
- upgraded all caps around the dac
- upgraded all caps around the opamps
- 2 x opa2134; biased to class A by pulldown to V- via 3.9k resistor
- replaced dc blocker with Panasonic FC, bypassed by stacked film cap
- shorted (bypassed) 2nd dc blocker (after opamp) -- not needed at all
- connected o/p direct via 75R Holco resistor, cut the track from the muting circuit. Mute still works, but more gently; o/p impedance improved 4x, with less interference from muting transistors"

Arj schrieb:

The follwowing is a copy paste from a mail after my frien modded by CDP, . it does not make sense to me but you can speak to ben, who i am sure will understand it better "changes to the following: -two sets of rectifier diodes changed to International Rectifier schottky diodes (8 pcs) - main caps for +/-12V regulator (the gold Nichicons), all post-regulator caps - upgraded all caps around the dac - upgraded all caps around the opamps - 2 x opa2134; biased to class A by pulldown to V- via 3.9k resistor - replaced dc blocker with Panasonic FC, bypassed by stacked film cap - shorted (bypassed) 2nd dc blocker (after opamp) -- not needed at all - connected o/p direct via 75R Holco resistor, cut the track from the muting circuit. Mute still works, but more gently; o/p impedance improved 4x, with less interference from muting transistors"

whoa!...hang on Arj...am not an expert here..don't place me on a mantle that i cannot even see..am flattered though
am learning my way through all this too...and people have been generous enough to entertain me and my questions....
But yeah..i get the jist of what he has done to ur CDP.

BTW.. have just bought a Wadia 12 DAC (Old one with no Volume control ) of ebay..

Anyone has any comments on it ? could not get anythin from the web..

Thanks Arj
I am not a technical guy. I can tweak components but cannot mod it. Further, i am not sure all the components you have mentioned are available locally? I have a friend who is into repairing and servicing . I will take your specs and see if he can help .

Could you please let us know why you are unhappy with this player ? Most people who play with high-end sources/dac/transport etc.. are guys who have very high-end speakers and amps and a pretty good room too. They would have at least come to a stage where they know the player is the weakest link in the system. High-end players will definitely give you benefits but make sure the rest of your system is resolving enough to justify this. One good way to check this out is to borrow a reference grado or senheiser headphone and check what you hear from your player. If you feel you still need to change, go ahead. Otherwise experiment with better speakers or amps/pre amps etc….ok.I am assuming a lot here…you may perhaps have high-end equipment already and know for sure you need a source change. Just my two cents.

[quote="square_wave"]Could you please let us know why you are unhappy with this player ? Most people who play with high-end sources/dac/transport etc.. are guys who have very high-end speakers and amps and a pretty good room too. They would have at least come to a stage where they know the player is the weakest link in the system. High-end players will definitely give you benefits but make sure the rest of your system is resolving enough to justify this. One good way to check this out is to borrow a reference grado or senheiser headphone and check what you hear from your player. If you feel you still need to change, go ahead. Otherwise experiment with better speakers or amps/pre amps etc….ok.I am assuming a lot here…you may perhaps have high-end equipment already and know for sure you need a source change. Just my two cents.[/quote]

Hi !

I agree with the first part of your statement - just do not with the second part. The headphone aspect can never tell you how good or how bad a cd player is. Simply because in a headphone there cam never be any 'space' that is created. The entire sound stage is 'above' your head. Try to hear a symphony & you will never get the sence of 'dept' & instrumentation lay out. Neither will you get the 'layers' Everything plays from one 'flat' well defined stage. That is not the case in a high end system. You can very very clearly pin point the 1st violins, 2nd violins, violas, chellos, double bass [left to right] & then the following layer behind with the 'wind' section [flute + picolo] on the left & the Trombone + Oboe + French Horns + Trumpets on the right & the 3rd layer that is the Precussion Section [timpanie + military drum etc.] & the Trialgles + Harp etc.

This is not the lay out always, but most of the time. I have used both the head phones you mentioned [senhiser + grado] & currently use the Audio Technica [Top of the line - M40's] & also the Stax Lambda + Omega etc. But you can never re-create the system set up.

However, Hi End CD Players are made, do exist & have a need. But your system should be up to the mark. The smallest of details need to be reproduced & the resolution matters a lot. The rhythem & pace too are essential. Not to mention the 'tone' !!!

This is a very complex thing, no one has a perfect answer. However, experiment, audition & then take a call. If you can hear the difference, it is worth it. If not, do not waste your money & your time !!

Happy Auditioning.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

Hello square_wave,
Basically nothing wrong with the system but one do always quest for better.
I think, my amp, speakers and cables are good enough to warrant a better cdp.

myriad, honestly, unless you feel there is something lacking in the setup it does not make sense upgrading..it would be a senseless upgrade for the sake of doing so ! (Coming from experience)

If you are enjoying the music.. the best and surprisingly the cheapest way to upgrade the sound as well as improve knowledge of acoustics is to start with your weakest link ie the room !

lots of knowledge in the web on how to make it audio friendly and would give you very very surprising results your existing setup.

Once you have done that right and you are still not satisfied , you can upgrade components !

Imagine the no of CDs you can buy with your budget

Accoustics is perhaps the most fun and less known part of audio ! not knowledge of electronics..that is just the beginners step

Hi Bhagwan,
I agree that headphones cannot recreate the magic of a true, well setup system in a good listening room. If a guy has something like this and is a good listener who can discern the aspects of music described by you and feels the source is lacking, it definitely warrants an upgrade. I have sometimes seen people walking up blind alleys by doing horizontal upgrades which does not give them any value whatsoever except a weaker bank balance. The NAD C542 is considered as a decent mid-level cd player and quite a few people have build a good system around it and are very happy with them.
As Arj and Bhagwan said, experiment and audition and take a wise decision.

Myriad,
How about moving to the next level of Cadence Speakers.
I think its the Hybrid Avitas.

Arj, you are right, enjoying music is foremost. But it's human nature to strive for the better if not best. Sometimes we are not so lucky upgarding a component. The worst case being, some 3 years back, i sold my Marantz PM80 int. amp and bought Nad C370. Nad , though being pricier by 12k and having more watts and garnering all hi fi awards in various magazines never gave me a sound pleasure. I am apprehensive, again, i could commit the same mistake . That's why love and audio are so similar .

I too had a similar experience with the NAD 370. I found the amp lifeless and actually lacking in power too. I found the C350 to be the best of their integrateds although some like the 320bee. Lesson learned – do not go by reviews – trust your ears only.

I have the NAD's C352 and it is simply amazing for the money. Compared it to the new MF A3.5 which is more than 3 times the NAD's price..but the sound is not 3 times better. The NAD is very neutral and transparent

As for the CDP, someone above suggested Marantz SA8400. This is a superb CDP for the money. Just remember that it requires a break in period of 200hrs to sound it's best. Once it is broken in, it can put to shame, CDPs costing 2 times it's price. The SACD is an added bonus. Creek's CD50 mk2 is another contender.

[quote="abhi.pani"]Myriad,
How about moving to the next level of Cadence Speakers. ;)
I think its the Hybrid Avitas. :hail[/quote]

They are being re-worked as we speak;

The new model - same name - version II - will be launched @ Times AV Revolution by Cadence on 11.11.2005.

However, the price is going up to 1,45 K for a pair.

I liked what I heard. Definately better than the older version.
If you are from Bombay - then you could go and listen to them. Then decide.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

Bhagwan..thats the arista for 1.45l I think you are talking about.

Avitas are the ones with the 7" driver which are less costly.

Manek.

You are right !

These names are such toungue twisters;
All their products have names with 'A' & sound rather
similar. Amaya - Arista, Avita etc.

My apologies.

BHAGWAN69

Sadly I am from Bangalore....so I can only twist my tongue with those names....no auditions for we poor guy sout here...atleast for now.

The arista according to me (MK II) is simply outstanding one of the few audio componets (if not the ONLY) on planet earth worth the FULL RETAIL PRICE.


Regards,


Satyam.

that makes me want to hear it even more

Called up Cadence today and came to know they have jacked up the prices of all their speakers.
The new prices of Divas and Avitas is 63k and 110k respectively (exclusive of taxes).

So will this upgrade in technology refelct in the Avita's as well ?

Satyam what's your take on the Avitas - old/new

BTW have you installed your ref monoblocks as yet ?

K

Hi Krish,

The most significant change in the new speaker is that the port is placed on the top just like the Arcas from its org position, which was close to the ground.

The difference in SQ is that the Bass is very tight and shocking for a 8-Inch driver esp when it is playing in a room that size, the speed of the Kevlar is A-L-M-O-S-T on par with the electro panel.

All in all it sounds like a small brother of the Arca truly, if you like the cadence sound this is the speaker to have according to me.

As for the Mono's no I haven’t installed it yet I will let you know how it’s playing very soon, give me a week and I will write a detailed report about it.


Regards,

Satyam.

sbfx schrieb:

The difference in SQ is that the Bass is very tight and shocking for a 8-Inch driver esp when it is playing in a room that size, the speed of the Kevlar is A-L-M-O-S-T on par with the electro panel.

Man....I cant wait till the Nov launch. I think I'm going to plan a pune trip and barge into the cadence factory and demand a hearing

It would be nice if forum members from B'bai could co-ordinate and meet up at the Times A/V do.

What say chaps ?

K

Most of the Bombay Audio Community will surely be there !!!

Some of the Dealers from other cities & towns should also be participating. It should be an interesting show;

B & W 800D is on Demo [sure] however, I want the Maggies to be there [20.1 this time around] !!!!!

Gamut - Full Rack should be on demo.
CD + Pre + Power + Speaker etc.

Avant Garde + JM Labs + Nagra will be there

Cadence will be there in a demo room up stairs [analogue]

'Play' is there - Prima Luna + Monitor Audio + Audio Analogue + Project

Mirage + Energy

JBL

All the 'big' boys are there.I should be there on all 4 days of the show. We could surely meet up.
Make the plan & we will meet. Time + Place etc.

Regards,

BHAGWAN69

Dynaudio may be missing - so I hear....... but I cannot confirm.

Will write about the Cadence new Avita's tom. I may not completely agree with what SBFX has to say [seamless] !!!

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Avant Garde + JM Labs + Nagra will be there

Vocal Music from Avant garde Duos has perhaps been the most haunting melody i have ever heard from any speaker..

Do remember to post your impressions of the setup ! they are my dream speakers

bhagwan69 schrieb:

Will write about the Cadence new Avita's tom. I may not completely agree with what SBFX has to say [seamless] !!!

Hi Bhagwan,

I know that one can hear the speakers cross but that’s always going to happen, one can even point that on the ARCA's but this guy at 1,45,000RS is great and for anyone who’s a fan of the cadence sound this is the speaker to have.


Though I'm looking forward to your comments as to what you heard when you auditioned the aristas.


Regards,

Satyam.

I plan on attending the Times show myself. Cadence and Avant Garde are worth listening to. I have already heard the Maggies and they are great for vocals.

Bhagwan, which is your stall?

Who's getting the reference monoblocks? Nowadays all audiophile speakers are auditioned with AVRs

[quote="Neutral"]I plan on attending the Times show myself. Cadence and Avant Garde are worth listening to. I have already heard the Maggies and they are great for vocals.

Bhagwan, which is your stall?

Who's getting the reference monoblocks? Nowadays all audiophile speakers are auditioned with AVRs :([/quote]

25.10.2005.

Hi !

I do not have any stall; I will just be attending the show as every one else.

The Maggies that you [we] have heard are the 3.6's.
However, I am most anxious to listen to the 20.1's. I do hope that AVI puts those up. Actually they may not, because it is the best VFM speaker & no other gear of theirs will get sold if one hears the 20.1 well set up.
I am not a lover of Planners, but the 20.1 is somthing else, specially in a very very big room.

The AG's will be there, Duo for sure with Nagra, but the TRIO + AG's own amplifiers too might just come. Fingers crossed.

Even I have been told that Dynaudio Temptation + Chord Electronics are to grace the show. Clearaudio + Whest too will be there [analogue front end]. If that happens, it will be a riot !!!!

To be truthful, I am looking forward to this show most anxiously. Should make for interesting Auditioning.

Regards,

BHAGWAN 69


I am actually looking forward to listening to the Canton's.
If THE SHOP does get the new ones in - not in a HT set up and definately without the Rotel Electronics !!! [Sorry !!]

[quote]Though I'm looking forward to your comments as to what you heard when you auditioned the aristas.[/quote]

I would love to comment on what I heard.
But that would not be right.
The speaker is not completed & it was in its final round of being 'voiced'.
There were certain suggestion that I made, but that was for Cadence. That I cannot discuss on this forum. I am sorry. It would be ethically wrong.

However, I shall definately audition the final version @ the Show & will give my detailed report [point of view - rather] on the same within a week of the show finishing on the Forum.

Sorry Satyam !

All the Best !

Regards,

BHAGWAN 69

Good ethics in todays day and age are few and far between my friend.....glad to know a man who has 'em.

Manek.

Thank you Sir !

I appreciate the recognition;

Best Regards,

BHAGWAN 69

some things just cannot be discussed in public domain - I am sure you understand & respect my judgement.

When's the Times Show in Blr? Which hotel?

Thanks

Hyatt Hotel [Grand] - Bombay.
Santacruz - Kalina actually.

Starts 11.11.2005
Finishes 14.11.2005.

Times AV Show - BOMBAY [Mumbai]

I do not know when the show is scheduled for Bangalore.
Hyderabad is having one in Jan, 2006 [AV Max]

Bhagwan 69

Hi bhagwan69:
Thanks for the info

Cheers!

shame that there is no decent show in Bangalore

Hello folks,
I have dropped the idea of upgrading my cdp for the time being. Instead i am going vinyl route. I have ordered Project RPM4 with Sumiko Pearl Cartridge (company fitted)and Project Phono SE. It will take a week to be delivered.
Meanwhile i have hunted down few old jazz albums viz. Mingus with Eric Dolphy, Billy Cobham-Crosswinds, Ramsey Lewis -Greatest Hits and PaulDesmond.
I am eagerly waiting for the table to be delivered. The last taste of vinyl was when i had Philips GA 242 and Cosmic amplifier and speakers.
Hope i am going the right route
Further i will be needing u vinyl guys help to setup my tt.
Thanks.

Gone over to the dark side have we

good that you found what you wanted..better be in touch with Sbfx so you can share experiences !

Welcome back to good old sound of vinyl. You will be surprised to hear how good some of your old LP's are !!! I strongly belive that vinyl playback equipments have now become affordable, just imagine getting a player of RPM4 caliber some 35 yrs back at the present price point. The technology has made cheaper manufacturing, phono cartridges and preamps have taken giant leaps in quality.

Happy listening

myriad schrieb:

Hello folks, I have dropped the idea of upgrading my cdp for the time being. Instead i am going vinyl route. I have ordered Project RPM4 with Sumiko Pearl Cartridge (company fitted)and Project Phono SE. It will take a week to be delivered. Meanwhile i have hunted down few old jazz albums viz. Mingus with Eric Dolphy, Billy Cobham-Crosswinds, Ramsey Lewis -Greatest Hits and PaulDesmond. I am eagerly waiting for the table to be delivered. The last taste of vinyl was when i had Philips GA 242 and Cosmic amplifier and speakers. Hope i am going the right route Further i will be needing u vinyl guys help to setup my tt. Thanks.

Hey Myriad,

Congratulations on your new vinyl rig, I hope you enjoy the "experience" as much as I do.

Do let us know how it sounds after you set it up.

Regards,

Satyam.

PS: I'm have a feeling you wont be playing your CD-Player much from now on.