Why a professional Installation Is Important...

Prithvi, thanks for the great write up.

Professional service teams are available at least in the US to help people setup their home audio that cater to audiophile needs.But is typically for people who spend more on their audio than on their car and spend upwards of $10000 on a pair for speakers.

In the absence of a dedicated entertainment room, is it safe to just go with room treatments as there is'nt even enough space to play around with speaker placement.

Hi All

Linn has appropriately put it ....."Competent Retailer"

The question we need to ask is who qualifies to be a competent retailer ?

My perceptions of a competent retailer is:

Someone who know the products he carries..... features & specifications inside out. Not like a case which Neutral shared with me the other day....a Retailer told him that the "Loudness" button was supposed to be switched on at high volumes to get better Bass & Treble !!!

Someone who can interpret the technical specifications appropriately & assist the customer in co-relating the technical specifications to his/her listening experience.

Someone who does not try to put down brands he is not carrying and make it seem that what he has got, is the best.

Somehow who does not try to con gullible customers by pressure selling, by making it seem that he (Retailer) know it all ....and the customer knows nothing.

Someone who does not try to extort additional monies for warranties that finally boil down to being non-existent and/or less than the actual warranty itself .

Someone who has a genuine love, for the products he carries & the customers he has...not a "mercenary for money" attitude.

Someone who knows all about setups & installations and carries a list of proper equipment (MLSSA, Test CD's, Frequency Generators, etc...) and know how to operate them adequately.

Someone who is focussed on a particular range of products...not a "You want it I have got it all" philosophy......imagine what happens to the customer if he wants support & the retailer tells him..."Well I was a dealer in X brand, now I am no longer a dealer so fend for yourself mate !!"

Someone who has a proper commercial establishment, where a customer could feel secure in finding the dealer as time passes on.

Someone who is not loud mouthed, exaggerative, aggressive, pushy & bossy but someone who is gentle & supportive to the requirements of the customer.

But hey I might be totally wrong and would welcome a healthy debate on the above...perhaps things have changed over the past few months......

Alternatively if there are some more attributes one would like to see in a Retailer...please add to this discussion !!

Regards,

Junia.

jsa,

The One point I would look in a dealer which was not mentioned is a person who charges a fair purchase price for goods themselves...additional warranties apart...

all other attributes you mentioned are ofcourse very important. Most of all the rapport a customer shares with the dealer. The rapport building is what is most important. I have seen in the past that most people who buy equipment, buy mostly from one dealer...when I ask them about the choices available, they always say its better to deal with a known devil than an unknown angel.....

So the situation is not very customer friendly....

manek.

Prithvi helped me a lot going over the models and options to setup electronics for my speakers over phone. Due to my stay outside India, Prithvi suggested contacts in Singapore to get better prices. I appreciated the time Prithivi spent giving me sound advise on the possible options to select for my electronics. (Thank you Prithvi )

Though I have not been able to give Prithvi any business yet, I have a lot of respect for AP and would have them in the top of my list for my next acquisition of LP and tape deck hopefully before the end of the year.

Can you please clarify the topic with some techical details e.g., power conditioners ,...

i agree with you Rajesh.
Prithvi did help me too when i started off....and till i met him i had not heard quality in the sound reproduction that i heard at his place..it was simply over the top...amazing and yet to be bettered...
Learnt quite a bit from him myself and also in optimizing the setup of my speakers...(would'nt have pulled the wharfies out of the corners if it were'nt for him )...
Cheers,
Sachi

p.s: Prithvi and i may not see eye to eye on some issues(like, transports,power cords, and a couple other) but he knows his stuff.

Dear Manek,

What you said seems to be the bone of contention to consumers !!

What is a fair purchase price ?? Unfortunately there is no fixed price for any high or decent end audio product, in India. I am yet to see a maximum retail price stuck on any audio components.

I guess, that is why there is such a lot of manipulation with the audio prices today.

In most cases, behind that friendly dealer face, often one finds a wolf in sheep's clothing !! If you are smart you could brow beat the dealer into giving you a fair price & warranty, if you are not...well heaven help you !! In most cases Newbies get the short end of the stick !

The other day Mr. Mehra was mentioning to me how he was taken advantage off by some dealers.

I feel if pressure could be exerted by the consumers on the dealers, over their rights, over a period of time, things would change.

Regards,

Junia.

jsa_ind schrieb:

What is a fair purchase price ?? Unfortunately there is no fixed price for any high or decent end audio product, in India. I am yet to see a maximum retail price stuck on any audio components. I guess, that is why there is such a lot of manipulation with the audio prices today.

i totally agree with this..
i mean who knows what the maximum retail price is suposed to be in India..the dealer quotes the price and u have to take it at face value....u never know its real worth,and this can be manipulated very easily by the dealers..since there is no other dealer who carries the same product in India to get a second quote from...so what he says goes..This can be very unnerving for a newbie and hence he can very easily be manipulated by the dealer....there is a long way to go before the scence in India changes to the better.
Cheers,
Sachi

How about names and instances, so we know who the guy's are. We need to make people aware.

Just as an example, a couple of day's back I came to know that a voltage stabilizer had gone bust within 6 months of installation in my company. The maufacturer insisted that the warranty did not cover the transformer coil which had got damaged due to high line voltage!!

Duh..uh.... so what does a transformer manufacturer cover in his warranty? Perhap's the casing and paint work on the exterior!!!

Needless to say, after I had a few gentle words, he arranged for a replacement.

So don't take thing's lying down. FIght tooth and nail and let as many people know and expose these @#%&*##'s.

Roshan.

i had a problem with my phillips TV which was jsut 6 months old ..the chip had been fried and the TV wasn't able to boot....
The company guys promptly took it over and replaced it witha brand new chip, which they had to get from Pune..
There is absolutely no change in the quality of the Video..now that is whaty i call service...its hard to come by such competent service nowadays from the bigger companies..
Cheers,
Sachi

hsmraj schrieb:

Prithvi, thanks for the great write up. Professional service teams are available at least in the US to help people setup their home audio that cater to audiophile needs.But is typically for people who spend more on their audio than on their car and spend upwards of $10000 on a pair for speakers. In the absence of a dedicated entertainment room, is it safe to just go with room treatments as there is'nt even enough space to play around with speaker placement.

Hi! Sure will do the needful on power conditioners. If you ever want to hear one then you can come on over. Just give me a call before you do so, as I have been very busy with installs.

Rgds
Prithvi

benkenobi schrieb:

i agree with you Rajesh. Prithvi did help me too when i started off....and till i met him i had not heard quality in the sound reproduction that i heard at his place..it was simply over the top...amazing and yet to be bettered... Learnt quite a bit from him myself and also in optimizing the setup of my speakers...(would'nt have pulled the wharfies out of the corners if it were'nt for him )... Cheers, Sachi p.s: Prithvi and i may not see eye to eye on some issues(like, transports,power cords, and a couple other) but he knows his stuff.

Hey Ben,
I had mentioned earlier that you are most welcome to come by when I have new stuff on demo. Regarding seeing eye to eye man, come on it is not necessaryy that we agree on all things. To each his own. Period.

Rgds
Prithvi

roshan wrote :

How about names and instances, so we know who the guy's are. We need to make people aware.

So don't take thing's lying down. FIght tooth and nail and let as many people know and expose these

Good one... start another thread...I don't have real experiences as of now and after all commotion I have decided to get an amp from US, but will definetely contribute to how dealers behave the moment you refuse to pick up stuff from them...all smiling faces become shit smeared....

Hi prithvi,
I would like to audition some of the amps and what kind of amps and speakers do u have at present. Last time when i came to u. There were dynes 52s and proacs. But I was in love with vifas/scanspeak drivers. But when will u be free? But this time i just want to audition it but i do buy after some time.

cheers
sandeep

Dear Roshan,

I will gladly PM you names.

Here is something hot, which was PMed to me about some more tricks that are played on gullible audiophiles.

This one caught me unawares too.......!!!!

"An announcement is made that some really high end gear has just been purchased for private use by a Retailer...off course private auditions are always welcome...but with prior appointment ( Gosh you have to hype the aura behind the whole affair...don't you !!!)

When folks land up to audition the equipment, they are told that just a few minutes ago one of the retailer's big shot friends ( May be a Vice President of Philips or Schweiz bank) has force/coerced him into selling the gear and hence it would be unavailable for audition. Off course since you are there, you are always welcome to audition the lesser mortal stuff the likes of Puccini..Rega Mira..Cambridge, Acoustic Portraits, Proarc's, AE's....all loaned from another sub dealer or dealer to fill in the gaps. Then the pressure selling starts to dispose off gear that has difficulty in being sold directly...deals...counter deals...you name it, you are subject to it all.

And if you refuse to bow to those tactics you are scoffed at and told no worries..... all that gear before your eyes will be gobbled up before the end of the day...it is your loss after all......

However you can bet your bottom dollar the next time the above gimmick is pull...lo & behold the gear which you saw the last time is still there !!!! minus off course the really high end gear...after all that was purchased minutes ago by the President of our country.......or Indian customs were charging so much duties, it would be better just to abandon the gear & the entry point & write off the losses of several lakhs at one stroke.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

Junia.

Hey Junia you seem to have hit the NoS button on a V12...Thats sounds strange but it's the truth. When a customer is made aware that real nutty hifi stuff is bought down it's just outta curiosity one walks in to get a free audition( c'mon who doesn't want to see real good stuff what we yearn to own )to find that a big shot just left with it by paying up a fortune..this makes a customer feel the dealer is real big ,capable and has contacts to sell real hi-end stuff within matter of hours and he's not intersted in the piddly low end stuff costing a few thousands what the customer intends to buy...Then dealer goes pulling out names of people who buy hi-end gear on a regular basis from him and his customers are all not just owners of oil wells but own companies which own oil wells. By this the dealer's yard stick grows up several inches in the eyes of customer and ultimately he buys whats thrown at him by the dealer...Here before the sale, during the sale and after the sale it's the dealer who has the customers testicles in his vice and ultimately the customer is led to beleive that dealer has done him a favour by selling him low-end stuff which in first place is his bread and butter.

junia wrote :

.......or Indian customs were charging so much duties, it would be better just to abandon the gear & the entry point & write off the losses of several lakhs at one stroke.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats a new one in our books.....if it's for the VP then why bother about customs..first place why will customs bother you if you are frequent importer as you would have hand in gloves with the officials...

Hijo de una gran puta

Dear Sub_Boss,

Man the plot gets murkier & murkier !!! The levels people stoop to !!

You know I have found out, that historically people who indulge in over exaggeration, are normally individuals who indulge in such activities.

If I do see any Retailer:
Claiming to be a dealer for a whole host of products, (Most of which have got a conflict of interest with each other).
Willing to sell anything under the sun.
Having no proper establishment to talk about.
Pretending to be selling equipment worth lakhs of rupees every month, and being very busy installing audio gear for make believe celebrities & VIP's.
Pretending to buy a whole lost of ultra high end gear.

In general trying to hype any particular product while putting down the product he cannot retail and giving undue importance to himself, I do know in reality that person is living in a make believe world of fantasy, who may be selling one or two pieces per month, just about keep his body & soul together, while trying to con the general public !!

Regards,

Junia.

PS. About the Customs...that was the latest from the bag of tricks our "Retailer Friend" was supposed to have pulled out .....this is so ridiculous all you can do is to laugh at the patheticity of the our friend !!

Junia wrote :

.....this is so ridiculous all you can do is to laugh at the patheticity of the our friend !!

I cannot laugh anymore as I'm tired of doing it..now all i can do is chuckle at the situation...but thanks to all I came out wiser..better to get wiser and be saved than trying to be over smart and get mounted from all angles...ya mounted by micro genitals but once mounted your ass aches for life time...

All this is so very enlightening guys !

I have also encountered dealers and retailers throwing names of people who are supposed to be their esteemed clients, but infact the dealer had not sold that person the said system, it was bought from some other source.

Not to forget the fact that good systems/brands are rubbished(especially the ones currently owned by the customer) for the sake of making a sale and ofcourse if one does not take that crap as gospel then you are looked down upon. In all this confusion the dealer who is quiet, loyal to a couple of brands, has indepth knowledge of his brands and one who makes a minimal of fuss wins. I have seen this happen in so many cases.

Moral of the story...Shooting crap may take you up there for a while but wont keep you there for long !

Manek.

manek wrote :

Shooting crap may take you up there for a while but wont keep you there for long !

Right sir..i remember reading up a moral on same too...but trying to shoot crap too high in the air by getting his angle close to vertical results in all the stuff landing back on him later..and by then the dealer wpuld be knee deep in shit not to forget the truck load on his head..

well this all proves one thing....the dealers who have gotten off their high horse and are adpating easily to the changing customer centric market environment and being humble with the client will be on the wining side. Others talented or not will perish eventually.

manek.

How about this one....

I once went to meet a dealer/owner after prior appointment. I reconfirmed before leaving for his place in the morning and yet the great man arrived 30 minutes after we reached his demo room.

Apparently, his regular customer, Sanjay Datt, was passing by and his( Sanjay Datts's) car broke down. Our man had to pick him up and drop him home, hence the delay.

While the Demo was going on another Big name from the Bombay page 3 crowd, called him up to follow up on the 1 crore audio order that had been placed.

Also, through out the demo he kept flicking his wrist under my nose, lest I miss the Omega time piece he was wearing.

I don't much remember the Audio on demo!!

Roshan.

I know absolutely nothing about the tricks played by dealers. But the service quality of many dealers / companies leaves a lot to be desired. Some examples:

1. Pulz company would not provide home delivery of their equipment. So I had to rope in a dealer to get the delivery service.

2. Hiro Music House in Bandra, which deals in Pulz, were unable to give me a demo of the Pulz equipment for more than a month. They simply told me that the demo piece's drivers were blown so no demo was possible. Never cared to arrange for a substitute piece. Instead they played for me Telome speakers using the Pulz amp. The speakers were placed 7 ft from the floor on top of a cabinet!

3. Vijay Sales demonstration of Mission M32 bookshelfs was conducted with the bookshelfs on the floor! How could I possibly judge the sound quality unless they expected me to sleep on the flor.

4. Dealers usually don't do proper A-B comparisons of equipment. They just push you into buying higher-priced components.

5. Dealers don't have proper test CDs on hand. If you are careless enough to not get your own music, you have to make do with some random stuff that they can find.

Roshan wrote :

Apparently, his regular customer, Sanjay Datt, was passing by and his( Sanjay Datts's) car broke down. Our man had to pick him up and drop him home, hence the delay. While the Demo was going on another Big name from the Bombay page 3 crowd, called him up to follow up on the 1 crore audio order that had been placed.

well well...well see that another big name pulled in to make dealer seem big to customers....and talking of omega thats another investment of his into business than a wrist watch for his personal use...to show people that he's big deals in big stuff...but hardly we can ever discover that the price he charges contains the overhead of his Omega too...

Neutral wrote :

Vijay Sales demonstration of Mission M32 bookshelfs was conducted with the bookshelfs on the floor! How could I possibly judge the sound quality unless they expected me to sleep on the flor.

you don't need to sleep on the floor..he will finish his business while you're standing....