speakers for nad c320 bee

You are right Stevieboy. The tubes beat the SS anytime. I have a Nad C370 as well as Cayin TA30. After getting Cayin i don't like listening to Nad. Now, the Nad has been relegated to HT application only.

How much the Cayin-TA 30 retail,in India?
How's it's performance Vis-à-vis,Jolida 50W model?
Thanks.

The jolida to my mind would have a tube pre-amp section and a solid state power section...as they are known to make hybrid amps of such types...:-) If that is so then the cayin T-30 would have a tube pre and tube power section.

Manek.

Hey Stevieboy, did they have the Jolida cdp as well ?

If they did, and you know their selling price, could you share that as well ?

rgds

I did see a jolida CDP earlier there as well....but usually I also see the audionote cdp's.

manek.

Manek, is that the 2.1 cdp?
These days they have stopped making cdps and focus on transport/DACs.
but their CDP surely is a very good one..one of the smoothest I have heard and very simplistic

yeah myriad,

yups tubes rock! how much is the cayin? round 45 i guess?

yups manek tube pre and solid state power. they had the audionote dac signature 1. the other cd player was the roksan i noticed. did not notice the audionote cdp. was too fascinated by the sound

the jolida cdp was 54k arj. heavenly!

hifinovice to my mind i'm edging towards the jolida. the cayin would i guess sound better being all tube but the guys who are selling it have no clue what they're about so after you buy one you'd have no one to turn to. whereas the cadence guys seemed passionate and knew what they were talking about. plus the difference in sound would be marginal to you and me, the average non-critical listener.

Cayin cost me Rs.34,500/- in Kolkata.
I have changed the supplied EL34's with Philips, 12AX7 with BEL and 12AU7 with Brimars. I have also changed the power cable with a hevy duty 3x1.5 sqmm cable (not an audiophile grade but still better than supplied one).
To me, the sound right now is one of the best i have heard.

Arj, it was the 3.1. very simple, very smooth....:-)

Stevie, the cadence guys would know a thing or two about tube amps as they make tube amps themselves :-)
Their VA1.0HP tube integrated is really sweet but expensive(36 x 2 watts). Ofcourse their valve canasya monoblock tube amps are something else, 200 watts rms per monoblock.

About the sound difference being marginal, I dont think so. The VA 1.0HP sounds far better than the jolida I heard but the jolida with the SS power stage obviously had more power to deliver so if rock music or such stuff is your thing then the jolida would be a very nice bet for you.

The cayin-TA30 , myriad is the owner so he should know best about the amp and its characteristics.

Manek.

At Rs.34,500/- Cayin is a poor man's valve.
I haven't heard Cadence VA1 so cannot make any comparisons.
I thought of Cadence at first place but was wary to shell out Rs.80,000/- ( VA1 was costing 80k's in Kolkata after all the taxes, duties and way bill chrges). Moreover, Cadence don't have any dealers in Kolkata..so no audition either.
I bought Cayin because it sounded much better to Nad and was just right for the type of music i listen to... and i didn't have to shell out Rs.80,000 for a blind purchase

About the sound difference being marginal, I dont think so. The VA 1.0HP sounds far better than the jolida I heard but the jolida with the SS power stage obviously had more power to deliver so if rock music or such stuff is your thing then the jolida would be a very nice bet for you.

was referring to the jolida vs cayin manek! of course the cadence tubes would be better. judging by the speakers, cos i havent heard them, but am sure they'd be better.

Is it true that the Cayin needs bias voltage adjustments every few months while JoLida does not need this?
One should know, the basics to do it at home,if you do not have support/dealer in your city to do it.

myriad, 80k is a lot to put in for something you havent heard. never buy anything blind, good thinking....I wanted to bring in the Channel Islands DAC as my parents were on vacation in the US but chickened out at the last moment. I'm glad I did. I wouldn't have known what to do with it if it did not work for me.

Stevie, it all depends on the music you listen to and the speakers you drive. If the speakers are a tough drive like dynaudio...jolida it would be..otherwise cayin would do as well. Which one do you prefer ?

Manek.

didnt hear the cayin's for too long. the jolida's never. just heard the jolida cdp like i said. am just assuming and guessing that an all tube rig would be better though less powered like you put it. the jolida tube based 50 watter am sure would be almost as powerful as the roksan kandy 100 watter due to its being partly tube based, wot say?

i'd like to know too. does the jolida need manual biasing? am guessing not...

stevie,

the jolida preamp is tube based but power section is solid state. The tubes used for preamps dont get worn out very fast, they last years. Power tubes needs biasing on a regular basis as they wear out quicker and are changed often. Does it have an auto bias feature for preamp tubes ??? I dont know.

Now, watts are watts be it tube or solid state...a 50 watter tube cant be as powerfull as a 100 watter roksan. If the units or measurement for both are watts rms then the 100 watter roksan will be more powerfull.

Manek.

had this belief that tubes are more powerful and it was ratified by the jolida faqs on their site.

i dont think they'd fake something like that that could be checked on with measurements

[quote]JoLida amplifers are only rated at forty, fifty watts of power output, that doesn’t seem like much power.

It is a rule of thumb that one tube watt is equivalent to two or three solid state watts.
[/quote]

so perhaps the 50 watter is actually in solid state rating a 100 watter. maybe they've got more energy to dissipate watt for watt and thats why the sound is so real and pressurised like there's air around the instruments and vocals. (thats my rough try at describing a tube sound )

From my understanding it has more to do with the current.
Thats why Arcam, tho rated lower give more apparent power. in the end your speaker thrives on current..Valver are able to give higher current than SS

hmm...thats similar to what the mazda RX-7 and rx-8 enthusiasts say.....one rotary engine horsepower is equivalent to 2 horsepower from a piston driven engine....All rubbish !

But if its stated on the jolida website, then I guess jolida are trying to make a mickey out of their customers....

Horsepower is horsepower !
watts rms are watts rms !

Manufacturers sometimes do rate their amps conservatively, like nad says they do. Others rate their amps rather optimistically. Thats what you have to be carefull of.
Then there is rating for continuous power and dynamic power which you should read. amplifier current ratings are to be glanced at and not just power ratings....

Manek.

am willing to bet that the cadence 36 watter would drive the aritas better than the 50 watt rated (conservatively) nad. how come they make it only 36 watts and its supposed to be compatible with their range of speakers? methinks there is indeed scope for investigation here manek.

energy or current or whatever. am not technical but i feel there's some property by which they do the job more powerfully.

Link to a Tube v/s Solid state debate.But I think this is endless.People will vouch for Tubes,though science(Fourier Series) says otherwise.
Nothing wrong in taking a look at.
http://www.trueaudio.com/at_eetjlm.htm

yeah hifinovice. that's what makes a hobby so much fun. you can go on debating stuff and actually derive pleasure out of it cos you're so involved in it not to mention how much you learn in the process from other people!

I contacted Mr.Paul Grzybek, an ex US distributor of Cayin amps, regarding the biasing of Cayin TA30 and replacement of tubes.

Here's his reply:

[Great hearing from you!

The fixed bias stock version does not require biasing. Just need to buy matched EL-34s and plug them in. Small tubes do not have adjustments. Your Brimar U's are excellent.
The X7 does function fine in the U posistion - but the sound is a bit brighter, less bass.

Hope you ampprovides years of enjoyment. I no longer sell Cayin products. I now have my own house brand built to my specification.

Paul]

My Cayin is also a fixed bias version. I have changed all the chinese tubes with Philips, BEL and Brimar. The sound is better with the replaced tubes.

stevie....

The cadence va1.0 drives the aritas well becuase they have relatively decent sensitivity and nominal impedance. They made sure that the cadence line of speakers from the smallest to the largest are driven well by their valve amp. Thats the reason why 36 watts seem enough for the cadence speakers but may not be so for others...beware ! Ofcourse current delivery also counts a lot.

BTW the NAD drives them equally well if not better but the sound purity/clarity with the Va1.0 is far superior and that is the diference....!

Manek.

bang on manek! been reading up here's a nice link decware.com. the guy who makes the zen tubes. rated just 5 watts. but drives big speakers comfortably. nice articles and lots of reading matter. i'm trippin on the site! whoooo hooooo

apparently there's stuff like low output impedence of the tubes and wot not.. and gentler clipping than solid state that makes it seem more capable than equivalent solid state. ur right when u say there's lots of factors involved. these factors perhaps make the tube watt go further!

yes, the tube sound is really something....warm, sweet, and seductive.

Manek.

Hi guys, I am in a similar dilemna about finding a good speaker / amp match. I kinda liked the Nad c320bee and c352 but I also liked the Wharfedale 9.1 and Quad 11Ls and I think I would like to buy the Quad 11Ls.

I found the Nads to emphasize the bass a bit more than I would like and am not sure whether they would match well with the quads. I get the feeling that something like Rotel RA-02 or CA Azur 650a which seem to be more neutral and slightly less colored in the lower mids may be better for the Quads. Any thoughts?

As a side note, I didn't like the build quality of the 640a and every dealer I have spoken to recommends Nad over Cambridge Audio amps. I couldn't check out the RA-02 since apparently there is no piece available for display at Shop1 or Supreme Electronics. Do you guys know any other Rotel dealers in Mumbai?

hi deora! from what i've read the rotels would be a better match with the quads which tend to be slightly laid back. they'd add that slight bite and punch that the nad's by its very nature would not deliver with the quads. i havent heard the combos, only the quads with cambridge audio once and audio analogue amp the other time, so take this as pure gut feel and intensive reading!

the reviews all seem to be uniform in their endorsement of the rotel. some endorse rotel with quad.

i was planning to settle for rotel with quad till i went on the last leg of my odyssey and discovered the best was indeed left for last. the jolida amp! cadence aritas would be my choice over quad. little more punch in bass. quad's lack that.

seriously consider making the journey to pune to oceanic address somewhere before in this thread and listen to the jolida amp arita bookshelf combo. you'd be missing out on a real lot if you dont.

Who sells CAYIN, in India?
Please give the dealer name/phone and the price of TA30 Amp.I saw on this thread,it cost 34,500,is it all inclusive?
Thanks.