New to Hi Fi, what should i get?

NAD C350 is a 2 channel stereo amplifier. You need a multichannel AV receiver for Home Theatre and minimum of 5 speakers to enjoy your movies.

HI myriad
Thanks for the info...

Was out shopping today, after walking around i heard both the system. Are these good choice or there are better system out there...


AMP NAD T763
Speakers REF Q7 Q9 and Q1

and

Pioneer VSX AX3
Speakers Mirage Ominsat Micro

Among Sattelite speakers, the Mirage Omni series might perhaps be one of the best due to a very good 360 degree dispersion.

The Omnisat & omnisat Micro are really good. you could also think of 3 omnisats from right/left/center and two micros for surrounds.

Pioneer/marantz/denon/OnkyO are all good choices. But I felt the Marantz7300 was a great match with them, the speakers could be a little bright with some receivers .

If you are on a budget and short of space then sat/sub combination is to go with. Otherwise i always prefer floorstanders for front channels.

Hi guys

I did notice a difference when the saleman switch from the micro to the floorstand. the sound seems to have more depth (not sure that was that the correct term to use)

When playing movie of a gun fight the Mirage seems to deliver more life, i could hear the bullet fly pass me and hit something at the back (Was wondering if it could be the work of the AMP or they did a great job on the sound recording for that movie) But than for the other shop it was playing another movie in which i did not experience that "3D effect"

Next time i should have brought my own favorite movie and sound tracks for the demo.

As for natural sound, both sound as good. By the way there was a typo error it is KEF and not REF speakers that i was refering to.


So far have shorlisted this amps (after reading some reviews)
DENON AVR 3805
YAHMAHA DSP AX7505E
NAD T763 (But some reviews says this is so~so only)

As for speakers I know HECO is out, it sounds dull again it could be the AMP,

As i said i very new to this field, It seems that it is a tough choice getting that amp and speakers.

So HELP!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Denon 3805 is a good choice. Another amp you can shortlist is Yamaha RXV1400. This Yamaha amp is THX certified and is good value for money.
Yamaha and Klipsch internationally have tied up their marketing . You can listen to some Klipsh speakers with Yamaha amps.

Check out this website and post your exact questions and you will be able to get a great feedback. There are few people such as Hawk, Frank Abela, John A., Johhny, Landroval who can give you great advice on the equipment along with the reviews.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/18.html

Hi guys
thanks for all the feedback, today heard

DENON 2805 and Marantz (forgot the model)
Speakers : Mordaunt mS906, 905c, 903s and 309W

With the same speakers I prefer the Marantz than the DENON, it sounds much more rich. They ask me to try out the new Marantz SR7500 the next time round.

Was not able to get hear a demo from the KLIPSCH, as salesperson from the shop that carry it was not that friendly, it could be that i am not there regular cust.

what the klipsch dealer dies not realise is that you could be their regular customer if they dealt properly with you. Bad customer service. If he does not do much to aquire a customer then believe you me he wont do much to retain one as well !

manek.

Hi Guys

Finally got my system last week
Marrantz SR5500
Morduant Short Speakers (906, 903S, 905C & 309)

Now am going to change the DVD players and cables to the speakers any recommendation?

Thanks....

for dvd, pioneer is always a value for money proposition.

dont know what your budget is but a marantz dvd player with a marantz recvr...would not be a bad idea if budgets permit.

Denon has some nice entry level dvd's and so do onkyo.

speaker cables....what cables are availble at your dealers ? There are quite a few good ones around.

manek.

Does an expensive DVD player make a difference in sound and picture quality? I am eyeing on DV6500 from Marantz thou…

Not sure what my dealers carries on the brand of cables and brands I can take note?,

Sorrie all this may be silly questions… but I no nuts about all these…

Thanks a million

just like cdp's , dvd player also vary in performance on sound and picture quality. ....the marantz would be nice a bet to pair with your marantz recvr.

Speaker cables choices (available in india) could be VDH, QED, monster, jamo, kimber, DAC, transparent, ecosse, etc....depends on how much you want to spend on cabling...do also take a look at your interconnects.

manek.

The MS-906 bi wire speaker (i think this how u called it), how can i use this function? Do i need to get another AMP to support this?

for an HT setup...single wire is fine..start with that first...

After listening to about more than a month now, will buying a more expense or better speaker cables improve the sound quality?

For the Mordaunt mS906 speakers which cables should i get

Thanks

I would say, forget the expensive brand name speaker cables. Just use any old wire with half decent insulation, as long as the gauge is 12 or lower (assuming 5-6 meters run-length). You wont hear any difference beyond that that is not coming from your own imagination.

For the DVD audio interconnects, go for a digital coaxial, or, failing that a good quality RCA with gold plating. For the video, use Component cables, if your TV/Monitor supports it.

Ravi,

Right there.I too don't beleive in nonsense gold plated ref crap. just decent stuff to neutrally pass the current and signals.I feel that's more of a minds game than the actual diffrence.

Well cable differences do show up in resolving systems but then such systems itself cost $$$$$$. for our systems, any decent cable will do.

Sub / Ravi,

One point should be noted in this connection however. Ease of passage of current is one part of the issue.

Electrical gadgets like Refrigerators, ACs, Dimmers all emit RF. Speaker cables have a tendency to act like antenna and pick up this RF. In an entry to mid level system this would pretty much be unnoticeable, but in a SOTA highly sensitive system, this interference could manifest itself and spoil the clarity.

Cables with good shielding would be desirable in a high end setup.

Cheers

big ears wrote :

but in a SOTA highly sensitive system, this interference could manifest itself and spoil the clarity. Cables with good shielding would be desirable in a high end setup.

Yup thats beleivable...but I don't believe in the theory that cables would make an earth of diffrence..if it does it's adding something to your sound and stay away from em..

Sub,

It is the other way round. Bad cables would add something to the original sound, or detract from it. Good cables would try to give you exactly what the components produced.

But it is all very subjective. For an average guy with a 2-3K USD system, it wouldnt make any sense in buying a 2K cable. Somebody who has invested 50K in a system may think otherwise however, 2k is a small percentage of his investment, and he might well be tempted to tinker with different cables in search of improvement.

You would be right about there not being an earth of a difference. The law of diminishing returns rules....

Agree about shielding for signal cables (RCA), where there is low level signal and higher impedances of 47K etc and possibility of RF pickup.

The point is, good cables dont need to cost the earth or use solid silver core or OFC etc etc.. it is perfectly possible to make a perfectly good cable for a small fraction of the price of the so called high-end cables (and yeah, it would sound just as detailed, as resolving and as airy as any high end cable). Especially so for speaker cable.

As you once said big-ears, audiophiles need this stuff so that we can agonize over minute improvments and then feel happy about it all - expensive or not. Today I still dont get the same superlative pleasure listening to music on a good system, as I got when I listened to the first Rahman strains that came out of a homebrew amp and homebrew speaker that I built as a youngster.. using parts from the local "radio market". How inexpensive can pleasure get!

Hi

a bit late but atleast now.

Why not QED or DAC freinds. Both do a good job in thier catorory of pricing. Any comments ?

I tried the PCOCC speaker cable, sounds decent. In QED check on the silver anniversary. Its good and performs decent too.

Hi Ravi,

Totally agree with you on the cost issue.

I do feel saddened to see so many great designers putting their heart and soul into making better sounding electronics/transducers and not really get their due, whereas cable manufacturers get to laugh all the way to the bank conning people...

Litte one,

Some practical ideas...on speaker wires.

1) Budget : Buy original (avoid fakes) Finolex Electrical cable (4 or 6mm dia); Braid two wires (one red and another black) for each channel; Keep the length as short as possible, but the lenght must be the same for both channel; Finolex cables use good/reliable quality of copper, unlike many fake OFC cables (but good looking) available in the market.

2) If you are ready to make one time investment in a speaker cable....you shold look at the Jon Risch speaker cable at

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/cables.htm

This will cost you about Rs.8000 for a 3 meter pair, but my friends tell that - it is better than branded cables costing more than Rs. 30K. I have made one for myself....its fantastic and i have thrown (well..actually sold..i'm not that rich ;-)) out far more expensive branded cables.

DIY on cables and save yourself some money....ofcourse, if you have some time.

Cheers
Siva.

If the Finolex( This is Indian Cable manufacturer) copper cables(4 m or 6mm,can outdo a OFC cable,one more audio myth( about the cables) is biting the dust...
Way to go.

And what's the result of pairing the Finolex cables( two red wires in parallel and two Black in parallel),per speaker?

Dear hifinovice & Littlefeet,

You are absolutely right hifinovice1 !

For the more adventurous types, you might want to experiment with http://www.geocities.com/rjm003.geo/rjmaudio/spk.html .

The Endeavour-X3 has spectacular results and it made up of ordinary computer cables ! I feel the Endeavour series is the best value for money option.

In case anybody needs help in putting cables together or want a technical evaluation as to resistivty, conductance, capacitance etc... on the cables they made or want a technical comparison with a commercially sold cable, feel free to PM me.

Regards,

Junia.

In theory, if you increase the cross section...which would happen if a double strand (two strands each for a positive & negative side), is put you will decrease the resistance...which means better sound.

Unfortunately you also induce an increase in capacitance & inductance, so the cable would really have to be measured for all properties to come up with a final conclusion...off course an blind A/B test would also be required !

Hi Fi Novice,

Cables make a difference...but as i had said before..value for money is a different discussion.

If there is any myth that is exposed here...it is the myth that is generally associated with "Brands" and "Product Image"...as they always demand a premium. I do not think this "Myth" is restricted only to audio industry....i think its the same with most consumer products (from soaps to TVs to packaged food).

However, this "myth" helps people who do not have the time to visit this forums to learn the truth and nor do they have the time for DIY. They can simply buy the brand they trust...and this kind of crowd does not mind paying a premium....is'nt it.

There is a camp that needs value for money...and then there is the other camp that does not mind paying premium. You just have to decide which camp you are in ....i do not think it is fair to critize people who pay a premium and vice versa.

This was just to clarify the intention behind my post...

Cheers
Siva.

hi guys!
just wanted to know more about ferrite suppresors being used on interconnects/ speaker wires at the amp end does it make any difference?

We call something a "premium" if the markup is maybe 10% or 50% of the actual cost. Something that is 8000% of the actual "Value" is no longer a premium, it is daylight robbery by con artists. And please, do not compare premium soaps to Hi-fi myths - that like using a Rs. 2000 75g soap bar for everyday bath. The delaers are squarely to blame for even encouraging such thoughts.

10 feet of my Siltech Cables, Echo Bay Signature G6 cost $ 22,700 multiply it by 2 for each side you have $ 45,400 that is approximately 20 lakhs for a speaker cable.

The Endeavour-X3 cost me $ 52 or Rs. 2500 to make.

I prefer the Endeavour any day to the Siltech.

I leave it to each one to figure out the maths.

It can be proved that the difference is so minuscule....I must rather invest in property in Bangalore or Bombay rather then spend so much for a cable with such a negligible difference.

Dear Betelguese,

I have found that ferrite suppresors do help in preventing stray magnetic field from affecting one's music.

However it is not a neccisity by any stretch of imagination.

Regards,

Junia.

Betelguese schrieb:

hi guys! just wanted to know more about ferrite suppresors being used on interconnects/ speaker wires at the amp end does it make any difference?

adding on to junias comment, in case there are stray RFI waves in the" wire ( due to any strong fields) it helps..hence it may not have an impact.

some folks do feel it affects the dynamism at high frequencies, especially the time of decay of cymbals..although I do not have any personal experience with that

Hi guys

Thanks a million for the input, am following the 20% rule meaning the cables/interconnects should cost more than 20% of the total cost of the AMP and speakers.

my brother is using the bi-wire feature, did notice the difference compare to mine when i was using 2 wires and that jumper thing on the speaker. So i got myself the monster bi-wire cables and guess what there is a difference when i hook it up (Sorry i still no nuts about those cabling and speaker terms)

I think i might have bought the branded cable by impulse, after i brought it home i wondering is it an overkill, that cable is dam bloody thick and heavy. But at least it works, maybe a cheaper cable will also have the same result hmmmm.... There goes my hard earn money

Hi guys

Just to add, am wondering is it the cables or the biwiring made the two front speaker sound better or is it my third hearing sense that make it sound better (esp spending $$$ on that cable)


The other is that when watching movies i cant hear a word from the centre speakers, unless i turn up the volume, but if i did that when the action sound comes in i need to turn the down volume as it is too loud Is there some setting i need to do

Personally many who have responded have the best of the intentions. Frankly I believe the myth of speaker cables is more about uninformed buyers and dealers who are eager to have the very best sound possible.

There certainly are differences between cables from differenct companies, but there is enough scientific evidence to prove that these are not perceivable by human ear - at least not my most audiophiles.

At audio frequencies what matters is the gauge of copper. High purity, oxygen free in my opinion are more for esoteric purposes, felxibility of cable and other factors but should not produce (perceivable) sonic differences.

If a sales person tries to push expensive cables, try getting him to do a blind test with you holding the control of changing the speaker cables. If he can tell the sonic difference, then it is worth considering these cables for purchase.

The weekest link in the audio path is speaker. There is lot more cable inside your speaker box in speaker voice coila and cross over than the one used for interconnect between amp and speaker. Even the $20000 a pair speaker manufacturers themselves are not so concerned in the top end cables.

Additionally the cross over networks shift the phase of each frequency by different amounts that is perceivable by the listener. The relative phase difference between difference between different frequencies can cause more perceivable distortion than anything else. I can point you to a product in beta that corrects this resulting in dramatic improvement in sound reproduction. PM me if you need details.

Personally I am using 14" guage cable (not sure if I should have gone if for 12" for 4 ohm speakers). I spent about 2000 for 30 meter cable. I would not have minded going in for cheaper cables of the same guage but I could not wait to hook up my system. Monstors are lot more expensive with little or no benefits.

Unless you have lots of spare cash for the esoteric benefits that these super expensive cables provide, I would recommend you use your money for setting up your room acoustics and redo your interiors.

Sincerely suggest every one to do some basic google search and post the links here. I will try to start a new post with the links to some scientific verifiable sources to throw more light on this topic.

Little_feet, I suggest you look at your receiver modes. For HT modes most of the speech should come from the centre channel. I have a feeling you have selected a music mode in the receiver that delivers mostly through the fronts and drives the centre weakly. Which receiver/preamp do you use?

I am able to make some difference at my speakers biwired. But from a distance, I cannot perceive whether it is an improvement or a step back. I am not fully convinced in biwiring providing a major improvement. What is the guage of the speaker cables and the speaker impedence?

hy little feet

it's a bit late now, as you've already bought the bi-wiring cable... but:
often it's just the bridge which is quite poor loads of times. with my jbl e80's I noticed a huge difference after replacing the standard-bridge by short wire-bridges.


greets dipak

This is the speakers specs

Frequency response (Hz) 45-22k
Sensitivity (dB) 90
Impedance (nominal) (Ohms) 4-8
Power rating (Watts RMS) 15-150
Drivers* (2) 130mm aluminium CPC mid/bass
(1) 25mm aluminium dome tweeter

Am still looking for the spec on that cable.

Have no idea what all those figure adds up to (although i hv studied Electrical Engineering, have gave back all my "electrical sense" since i passed my exams )

By the way what do u mean by "standard-bridge by short wire-bridges" and "a bit late now"

Have a great day
Little_Feet
Motto of the day..If dont know, ask .....

Little_feet, is this a DIY project or a commericial speaker. Have you auditioned the speaekers?

By the way what do u mean by "standard-bridge by short wire-bridges" and "a bit late now"

a bit late now: have I got it wrong and you haven't yet bought the monster bi-wiring cable?

standard bridges (provided when buying the speaker):
the two small plates of steel (or whatever, preferably gold) that (inter)connect the biwiring terminals

wire bridges:
just take away the "standard bridges" and replace them by a short bridge made out of your speaker-cable. if you can't get two cables into one terminal you may also just de-insulate (?) a part long enough to insert the cable coming from the amp through both binding posts.

I had connected my jbl northridge e80's only to the low-section and when I replaced the standard-bridges and tested with nigel kennedy I was simply astonished by how much difference this may make. with my father's kef q7 however, it made no big deal; but then the standard bridges on the kefs are much more solid. change them for a try, it surely won't get worse and if you hear an improvement it has helped..

Am still looking for the spec on that cable.

what were you looking for?

Have no idea what all those figure adds up to (although i hv studied Electrical Engineering

if you mean the speaker specs - you can't estimate the quality of a speaker by looking at his specs. or did you mean something else?


greets dipak

hey little_feet,

can u tell me how is the performance of the marantz 5500?how much did u get it for and from where?even i have zeroed down to buy a marantz receiver......pls help me out!

edges

heylittle ,,vm here ,,I would say a couple of inexpensive cables would make a noticeable difference,,,people refer to them as best value for the money ,,I am using them upstairs for my sisters system ,amazing..
,just called audioquest type 4
http://www.audiorevi..._116384_1584crx.aspx


about 3 dollars per foot,,combine that with audioquest digital cable vsd 1

http://www.audiorevi..._128698_5828crx.aspx
if you want a warmer sound try an intergrated tube amp say primaluna,,or cayin t30 ,,or even an old dynaco,,and use with the pre outs on reciever to drive your front 2 spks,for home theater
then for 2 channel listening.. ,,just use seperate rca's and only tube amp and realize why ..
once you go tubes,,
self explanatory..
later

vm8444, please check the site http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm for speaker cable. Cable gauge is perhaps the most important aspect of cable selection.

Not that any of the high end speaker cables are bad. Stores typically push branded cables as they get to make as much from cables as they make on the rest of the system they sell you.

In general great care is needed for the analog front end between your CD player and your amp. There is still no need to spend insanely high proportion of your money on cables. You money is better spent on better speakers, electronics and definitely on small room treatments.

There seems to be a lot of myth surroumnding digital coaxial cables. The digital coax is a 75 ohm cable that carries 5.1 sound for covering 20 kHz bandwidth. There is no way you need a high end cable for this or optical cable. Other audiophiles and retails would like to sell you $50+ cables to you. If you know a little more, you would try to use relatively cheaper cables and realize there is no difference.

For real improvement in sound, people run a good universal / CD player with good DACs and connect to the receiver though analog.

hey hsmraj,,,,too each his own ,,thats why forums like these are great,,but in a 5.1 set up,,the cables I mentioned above were each priced at less then 50 dollars,,and they will vastly improve sound quality over say lower end stuff,,such as monster or ultra link,,I know I tried ,,so some tweaks do make a difference,,and you are right about analog,,2 channel listening,,
much more information using a 2 channel setup then a digital set up,,,16 bit oppossed to higher definition with 20 bit..peace v