LYRITA AUDIO' S NEW SET AMPLIFIER

Kamal,

Do let me know when you plan the audition.

Kamal schrieb:

any points that members would like to be checked out?

The PO suggests 2A3 triodes.

1.Can you report if any hum is audible? Is the heating AC or DC?
2.What are the other tubes?
3.Tube or Solid State rectification?
4.What is the cost?

Hi aks07,

Yes, the set amp uses 2A3 valves, and that's what it will be called - the Lyrita Audio 2A3 SET.

A stereo integrated amp, with 5687 as input and driver valves, and the Shuguang 2A3C triode output valves. Power supply uses the GZ34 valve rectifier, with 3 chokes to smooth the supply. Custom built interstage transformers, and output transformers.

I'm using AC heater supplies, since they sound better to me. No problems with hum.

It's a very serious attempt at a good performing SET amp - I feel my best valve amp yet.

Viren.

Excellent news! We finally have a commercially available Indian SET amp.

6 irons suggest a serious build. I am glad that AC heating is being used.

Just one suggestion. Try 6Z32 instead of GZ34. Please let me know should you require a sample.

Finally, some pics pls !

Congrats Viren. Good Initiative.

I have not tried AC heating on my SET yet. I'm currently using a 35amps bridge on a heatsink with a 0.1ohm resistor...not bad, but might not be as good as AC. I'm planning to experiment with some schottky here...any idea if that will help ??

Recently, i got a mail from Andrea Ciffoli on his new 845 design...which also uses the same design as mine for HT. I know he was originally using AC heaters...not sure as to why he has changed. Could there be any reason apart from Hum for this ??

Regards
Siva.

Hi aks07,

One correction - 10 irons in the amp!
One power for HT, two filament transformers, three chokes, two interstage transformers, two output transformers!

I'll certainly look at the 6Z32 (should read GZ32!) rectifier.


Hi Siva,

For DHTs, people go for DC heater supplies to control hum, and for regulation. Still need a lot of filtration to control noise. Look at using high current, low inductance chokes for removing noise.

AC heater supplies work for 2A3s because of the low heater voltage of 2.5V. As the heater voltage goes up (10V for the 845), controlling residual hum becomes more of a problem.

Viren.

Viren, I LOVE the look of the 2A3 Triodes. They have a 'personality' !

A pic please ?

Maybe I will buy it Just to light it up on my mantle piece... :-)

Jest Kidding, but PLEASE do post the pic...

Kamal schrieb:

any points that members would like to be checked out?

1. comparison points with the current integre and the set. 2. loudness levels.
3. how it sounds with different tubes.


pics would be great!!!

thanks in advance!

Dear Folks
I went to his place on Friday.
I was in the last leg of my vacation. I had taken an afternoon off from my family. They were happy shopping around and watching movie while i called up Viren and landed at his place. There he had this SET Amp connected to Harmony One. The source were Marantz 5001 cdp and Linn Sondek Turntable. He was using his own designed Phonostage.
With the very first track i was immersed in the music. This combo of SET and Harmony One is very musical. More musical than my Cadence VA1 and Avita set up.I spent 3 hours at his place listening to various tracks of jazz, classical and few new age hindi film songs. For me, in every genre the combo passed with flying colours. The only thing is this system will not play at very loud volume due to it's limited power. IMO this system will give stiff competition to the system double it's price.
Now for the guy Viren: He is a gem of a person. Calm, humble and easygoing character. The best part is that you will feel at home at his place.
So guy's anybody jumping into tubes territory should at least listen to his set up. Im sure if you don't like his product (which i doubt) you will like the face behind that product.
Regards
Vasu

10 irons. Sorry I was thinking it was a Monoblock.

Despite its apparent simplicity, designing and building a SET amp remains the pinnacle of tube audio tech. All parts must be tuned to each other in perfect harmony. Its very difficult to do so if you are building just one example. Same goes with the prototype. This is the reason they are so hideously expensive.

DC in heater is just half the story, You get rid of hum, but gain a lot of rectification noise unless using a lots of caps and chokes. The best chokes for this purpose can be had from an old UPS or computer SMPS. I have had reasonable success using AC on 300B and 845 filament. Separate filament transformer mounted close to the tube and nulled out with a balancing pot. The hum is still audible if I place my ear close the speaker but not from the listening position. So that's ok with me.

I too receive the info from Mr. Ciuffoli on his new amp. Earlier I was planing to follow his El34>845 amp. But now I am starting work on a VT76 (or 6SN7) > RC > 10Y > LL1660 > 845 amp. He doesn't like the 10Y though (he dislikes all “old” tubes !” )

Viren-ji, how is the availability of NOS 2A3 in Delhi?

aks07 schrieb:

DC in heater is just half the story, You get rid of hum, but gain a lot of rectification noise unless using a lots of caps and chokes. The best chokes for this purpose can be had from an old UPS or computer SMPS. I have had reasonable success using AC on 300B and 845 filament. Separate filament transformer mounted close to the tube and nulled out with a balancing pot. The hum is still audible if I place my ear close the speaker but not from the listening position. So that's ok with me.

AKS, how do u compare the sound of DC Vs AC for 845 filament....many say that AC sounds better. I'm just trying to avoid any extra work...unless it is really worth it.

Viren very happy to hear that Business India are featuring Lyrita. Hope this gives more exposure to you as well as to our hobby!
Jeeves
Pl do let us know when it is published so that we can pick up our copies.

Sivat-ji

On 845 I cant say if DC sounds better, but its definitely more cleaner because it get rids of the hum. But the implementation needs to be super class. A basic DC plan for 845 would be Sckotchy bridge > 10,000uf > 2.4mH CMV Choke > 10,000uf > 2.4mH CMV Choke > 10,000uf. The Elco will be bypassed with 1uf+.1uf film caps. Anything less would be compromising. Of-course you would use an independed filament transformer irrespective of AC or DC heating. The CMV chokes can be had from RS (part# 288-143 etc) or you can dig out an old UPS, Monitor or SMPS supply.

I would start with AC. Use an a separate filament transformer Center tapped. Locate this transformer as close to the 845 as possible. First try the with center tap connected to ground. If not happy then use a 200R/5watt pot. The CT of the winding will go to the wiper of the pot. Try .2 ohm /10 watt resistor on both legs.

I have never been able to get rid of the hum completely when using AC. I am happy when its inaudible from my listening position. With 300B its relatively easier, but not so with 845, 211 or 811A.

I will personally prefer AC because its easier and you can get reasonable hum attenuation with careful construction.

Care to share details of your 845 design and build? Perhaps in a new thread over at the DIY section..

Thanks AKS. Filament supply had been a pain for me...on this project. I finally arrived at CRC using 10k uF + 0.1ohm + 10k uF. Hum is very minimal...and audible only if i put my ears close to the woofer. I'm also using a 25 ohm pot across.

I'm very eager to try the AC...thanks for sharing the info.

I will shortly upload the schema....i'm yet to put them down on a paper. I started with the AN ankoru schema...and went around making the changes from there on. PSU were simple LCLC for both 845 and 300B/7044.

However it was not easy getting a choke done for this purpose (for 845 b+)...ringing was a big problem, even with a massive 20H, 300mA choke. I finally got over the problem by adding a 0.1 uF solen cap before the first inductor...so it is really CLCLC...

Regards
Siva.

Hi !

I auditioned the SET amp with Harmony 1 speakers (& Marantz CD-5001 CDP). I'm listing my impressions:

-Looks great with new tubes.
-Sound is very very crisp and well defined
-Pin-point imaging
-Well controlled and surprisingly powerful bass
-Very musical
-Easy on the ears.
-Great value for money

Looks like Viren has managed to finally put together a "killer" amp.

Some Images of Lyritas' SET Amp & the Fostex Driver "treated "by Viren

do fostex come with white markings now ?

Thanks for the photos Kamal. So much work for just 2 watts

Oooooh !

The Tubes look LOVELY !

All the best, Viren

Manek schrieb:

do fostex come with white markings now ?

That is to tame the brightness in the fostex driver. Some people use damar to coat the cone. Painstaking work these little tweaks. I am sure the cage of the driver is damped as well from the inside.

As usual excellent amp from Lyrita audio. I can see that DELTA folk have been kept busy !

Good to see more Indian experimenting with “non-audio” tubes like 5687. Even Sivat-ji is using 7044 which is somewhat similar to 5687 for his 845 amp.

That GZ34 look to be BEL India. Excellent quality.

Hi,

The modification to the Fostex drivers I have done recently - based on the research and encouragement of Bud Purvine in the U.S. This is Bud Purvine's EnABLE treatment, available to all on the diyaudio.com speaker forum. The result of some ingenious thinking by Bud.

In essence, the pattern breaks up the sound wave travelling along the cone, and releases the energy more efficiently to the air. It also prevents energy from being reflected back from the surround, and interfering with the outgoing wave. The result is an increase in clarity and dynamics of reproduced sound.

Here is another example of innovative work being done by individuals. Bud has been trying to promote this for over 30 years. Have any of the major speaker manufacturers cottoned on to this - no chance! They are intent on making speaker drivers of even less sensitivity, and from materials that go into breakup mode more vigorously! Rather regressive, I think!

Kamal,

Thanks for the pictures of the amp. The internals are of the prototype amp - the production version will be much neater.

Yes, Delta Transformers in Delhi have been very forthcoming in developing these transformers for my use. As you know, my production numbers are nothing much to speak of. It's rare to find a supplier that shows so much interest - and, yes, there is a valve (or tube) afficionado lurking in there!

And, please disregard the marking on the 5687 valve shown in the first photograph (Mullard, British Made). These valves were never manufactured on European shores - that's a good, old NOS U.S. valve, remarked by an "innovative" Indian trader, hoping to increase its value!

Viren.

Ref the pics of the SET Amp above; Sanjay, Viren & me got together yesterday to audition the prototype SET Amp tweaked to Virens' satisfaction,thru the Harmony One Single driver speakers.The Regular Lyrita Integre 15W RMS/PC based on the push-pull design was also warmed up for an A/B comparison.

After the statutory fresh, home brewed coffee & some slices of home baked banana bread(Yummy! we polished off the lot & only our cultured breeding prevented us from asking for more-culture can be a pest at times!), we settled down for the session.

We heard Kari Bremnes-Norwegian Mood-Coastal Ship, Nils Lofrgen-Keith Don't Go, Rebecca Pidgeon-Spanish Harlem, Dadawa-Canton Story, Louis Armstrong & Ella Fitzgerald-Summertime, Paul Simon-Mardi Gras, Eagles-Hotel California(XRCD)Brother Jack Mcduff-Hammond Organ, 2-3 Classical tracks incl one of a Cathedral Organ, a bass "Torture" track from an album by a musician with an unpronounceable name( fill in, plz,Viren, I liked it very much)& finally,the famous thumri "Jab se Shyam sidhare" by Kalpana Zokarkar(Album;Rasiya).
In most of the tracks, we switched back & forth between the SET & the PP Integre.

Sanjay has very nicely summarised what we experienced, so I'll just add a few words on what I think would be the hallmark of the SET- the musicality or ,the experience of the flow of the music. With a SET as compared to a push/pull Amp, you experience an effortlessness, a sort of inevitability while listening to music. The notes & the harmonics are more palpable, the attack & the decay is more prolonged-this is esp apparent with low intensity notes/harmonics/transients, and it is this capability which gives the SET its sense of musical flow, just as if you were listening to real instruments up close.

I did experience what all the brouhaha abt SET Amps is all about; to my mind it would be about the best way to listen to most genres of music except hard/metal rock and where one would want to physically feel the throb of the sound-only in one track viz, Hotel California did I feel that the PP Amp did a better job because of the 5 times greater power, otherwise most of the listening was done at abt 1.5 watts which was enough to generate enough spl's in Virens 10'x12' sized living room, & the SET shone in comparison.

Viren did say that he planned to look into a SET with the 845 tubes which would take care of the power aspect too.
I too think, like Sanjay, that Viren has a "killer" of an Amp here.

great pics kamal thanks! looks yummy! home made banana bread huh? lucky guys. good to hear the SET sounds killer. cant wait!

Yup! Have requested Viren for the recipe( for the banana bread, not the SET!).
Will shoot it across if you have somebody to make it for you...

I spoke to Viren some time back and he did mention that he is working on a 845 based SET Int Amp. This will have a better power and the 845 sound.

Waiting eagerly for this one and plan to buy one along with Viren's Harmony 1 or 2 speakers. An 845 SET for me would be a long cherished dream come true.

Viren - I really hope and pray that you bring this beauty to us in record time. Patience is a virtue I sorely lack and have suffered many times for it.

Max

maxcoutinho schrieb:

Viren - I really hope and pray that you bring this beauty to us in record time. Patience is a virtue I sorely lack and have suffered many times for it. Max

max, order the banana bread in the meantime having a 2a3 and 845 set would be ultimate to switch between depending on the sound you want drool droooooooooool

Hmmmm...The banana Bread idea sounds tempting . Not too sure if it will taste the same without the 2a3 or 845 playing while eating.

Need to remember to tell Viren to pack a Banana Bread along with the Amp when I order

Having both Amps too seems to be a great idea. Of course then all I need to do is find a place to pitch a big tent to live in after wife kicks me and my equipment out of the house post buying both Amps.

Max

maxcoutinho schrieb:

Hmmmm...The banana Bread idea sounds tempting . Not too sure if it will taste the same without the 2a3 or 845 playing while eating. Need to remember to tell Viren to pack a Banana Bread along with the Amp when I order Having both Amps too seems to be a great idea. Of course then all I need to do is find a place to pitch a big tent to live in after wife kicks me and my equipment out of the house post buying both Amps. Max

Hi Vien, here's another line of business for you!
And Max, if the wifey indeed kicks you out along with the eqpt(BTW, which eqpt are we talking of? plz clarify),would'nt that be Nirvana? just you & the Stars & the music-
and in the night ,to hold the tent up, all you wld need to do is to lie on your back, dream of hi end eqpt & viola! the canvas would rise!

Yes Kamal, on second thoughts it would be Nirvava. But we guyz ( at least me )are such that then it may not be so much fun as no room to try placement with and acoustics management.

I bet if we ( again, at least me )were listening to a live concert with a curtain in between, we(I) would still want to get up and try to make some adjustment to the sound.

I meant my Audio Equipment :D. The rest comes and goes with me.

Max

Hi Viren
Just saw your Integre valve amp and Harmony one speakers in Business Today's More magazine supplement of Dec 2007 (comes free with Business Today) on pg 60.
A very favorable review.
Congrats!
Jeeves

Here's the article-
The Big Sound
By Bibek Bhattacharya
November 14, 2007

We took a Rolling Stones disc to check out these home-grown audio systems and came away impressed.
Lyrita Audio
What: Integre Valve Amp Harmony One Speakers. We tried out Lyrita’s stereo valve amplifier—the Integre. The beauty of a tube amp lies in its warm sound, and the listening experience is completely unlike that in power-mongering transistor amps. Like all valve amps, it took a little time to warm up. Listening to “She’s a Rainbow” by The Rolling Stones through this little beauty was all about nuance, and while the interplay between guitars, piano and the rhythm section was captured beautifully, the vocals came out loud and clear.
Price: On request
Available at: By order
Contact: www.lyrita-audio.in





________________________________________
URL for this article :
http://businesstoday.digitaltoday.in /content_mail.php?option=com_content&name=print&id= 2500

@ Copyright 2007 India Today Group.

Hi viren,
Nice to see a SET amp from you. What is the sensitivity of the fostex drivers you are using. What would be an optimal speaker for this 3 watt amplifer.
Purnendu

Hi Purnendu,

Good to hear from you! Where have you been hibernating?

Well, with SET amps you do need high sensitivity speakers - so it's important to look at systems. Somehow, single driver full-range speakers seem to work very well with SET amps. Maybe, it has something to do with the benign loading and the lack of crossover elements in these speakers. Not that SET amps won't work with multi-driver speakers - it has more to do with the impedance the amp sees - but we are talking of optimising performance for the music system as a whole.

The Lyrita Harmony One speakers have a sensitivity of 93 dB/watt, which is just about adequate for low powered amps. The majority of us live in moderate sized homes - so there's been no problem of getting good sound levels to listen to.

And 2A3 SET amps really astonish with their control, delicacy, and power with music. An unbelievable 3 watts!

Viren.

Hi Viren,
Thanks for the info. Will get in touch next time I am in Delhi. Would be nice to audition the new baby, and spend some time together.
Affly
Purnendu

3 watts of the most heavenly sound i have heard so far. and the volume is more than enough! a few seconds of listening is enough to establish the dramatic difference. and this is straight out of the box so it will only get better when played for a while. there really is no going back to a push pull after this demonstration of SET magic. for me its game SET match!

more detail, superb involvement in the music, surprisingly solid bass that plumbs deep and tremendous nuances unveiled. if i had to summarize it in one line 'you hear more without the individual parts taking prominence over the whole'. individual instruments are so well delineated you can follow rhythms and melodic patterns even if you were doing a hundred other things. you get the very clear impression of a bunch of musicians jamming together to do their thing and each one of them comes out loud and clearly separate yet merging together fluidly.

and now i have to run home to spend a sleepless night hehe. viren its really great to have someone who makes stuff like this and more so at down to earth prices. heartfelt thanks!

tech details for volume guys: listening volume in an average size living room: 10 o clock position. starts distorting at around 1. the 10 o clock position is loud enough for normal listening and loud enough to make you feel the bass in your body. much better bass than my previous amp. cant post on the quality cos even my previous amp needed a good hour or so to warm up and this little bugger has brand new parts. but its good enough to approximate the final quality after a few weeks of play and the outlook's very promising indeed.

music listened to: hard rock, classic rock, soft rock

The set-tube magic…! Enjoy !
No wonder people who get into fullrange single driver – set amps never look back.
Planning to visit you soon.

Great job viren

Kamal schrieb:

to my mind it would be about the best way to listen to most genres of music except hard/metal rock and where one would want to physically feel the throb of the sound-only in one track viz, Hotel California did I feel that the PP Amp did a better job because of the 5 times greater power, otherwise most of the listening was done at abt 1.5 watts which was enough to generate enough spl's in Virens 10'x12' sized living room, & the SET shone in comparison.

hi kamal,

in my room the SET pretty much gets me in the gut. i can feel the chair and floor throb and thats a fair bit below full volume before distortion. in fact its a little too much for me and i'm going to experiment with speaker placement to reduce the intensity. the bass does not overwhelm other notes but it gets you right in the gut! never thought a little 3 watter could do this! deep purple, iron maiden, led zep, rainbow, and other classic seventies rock sounds as good as joan orborne, joan baez, neil diamond and lighter listening. myriad was right about the combo being better than his va1 and avitas? if i remember right. in my opinion too it quite blasts the va1 out of the water comfortably and when you take the price into consideration the 2A3 is also more delicate and nuanced than the two 845 i've heard though they were not the SET variety... the only real comparison would be with other SETs i think after listening to the sound quality.

regards

Thats great, Steve.
I think it may have something to do with room geometry-in caseyou have two corners for your speakers( in Virens case, on one side there is the entrance door & on the other, a passage into his dining area-maybe this dissipates some of the bass energy/prevents corner reinforcement) you can experiment till you get the bass just right.
And I'm happy you're enjoying the SET magic.
The 845's would also be used to make up a SET Amp, with a 15W RMS/P.C. output ,for those of us who want musicality AND power-lets see how they turn out in comparison.
Will keep you posted.

Hi Steve,

Glad you're enjoying your music!

As far as musical enjoyment is concerned, there's nothing to beat a SET amp! The heirarchy now goes as the valve SET being superior to the valve push-pull, and that superior to solid state amps - and this from a designer who has dabbled in all three.

Of course, with the reiteration that you have to look at systems performing optimally.

Viren.

hi viren,

yup SET is something else. i would encourage anyone looking at buying or having an existing valve amp to really give an SET a listen. i strongly recommend it! the genre/class of amp is something else.

considering how my old 15 watter did with some other commercial speakers which were not single driver and comparing the performance of the 15 watter with the SET with my existing speaker, i'm sure the SET would do well even with commercial non-single driver speakers. high sensitivity of 90+ would be better. though even 89 would do. the 3 watt SET actually plays louder than the 15 watter!

the power and punch is quite astonishing and continues to surprise me. i keep throwing cd's at it and it keeps delivering. after i get over the surprise i'll probably be able to enjoy the music more

managed to reduce the bass by re-positioning speakers.

maxcoutinho, dont wait for the 845s. try this one out. he has a return policy anyways and an upgrade one for when the 845 version does come out next year.

regards

Hi Stevie,

Your feedback is indeed tempting me A little Financial Backlog right now after purchase of a Pair of Chord Signature Speaker Cables and Power Cords

However it looks like I may go the way you went and then think about the 845 later. My only worry is that I will be using this system in the hall which is rather large so not too sure if 3 watts will be adequate.

Do Post your feedback after the units have burnt in.

Max

Hey Stevie... mind giving me an audition over the weekend? Cheers!

hi reign!

sorry was out of town. back now. this weekend will be tough. need to do a lot of things. will pm you though. your welcome to drop in. pm me your mobile.

regards

Hehe this weekend will be tough for me too cos my parents are here :P. I'm waiting for viren's preamplifier. I think I'll pm you once I receive it. We can test it with both ur SET and my Viren's Pre + McCormack DNA Power amp combo :). Will get my DAC along as well.

Cheers!

Hi Guys,
Spent a very pleasant 2+ hrs yesterday chugging beer & listening to a variety of music thru the Lyrita SET & then thru the " Baby " SET, all of 1.5 Watts RMS, peak.
Sanjay had dropped in alongwith Anurag, a photography whiz-he's published a book on the Golden Temple with some great pics.Sanjay himself is quite a pro in photography & wields a wicked camera!It was a treat seeing the painstaking, perfectionist way in which they went abt taking some snaps of the eqpt-you can look forward to some great snaps soon as Sanjay uploads them.
We were joined by Ravi, an audiophile we met on HiFiVision Forum & his friend & later by Sanjeev,a guy steeped in music & an oldtime friend of Virens.
Since Anurag,Ravi & his pal had no exposure to Valve/Single driver systems, Viren first played his demo cd for them, and introduced them to the design philosophy behind his system & why it sounds so good inspite of the bare bones approach ,versus the more & more complex designs generally being adopted in the Audio world.
We then listened to music brought by each, from ghazals by Anurag, to jazz, rock, santoor music from Ravi, a track from Who's greatest hits, Miles Davis's Bitches brew,tracks from a World Music Album fathered by Zakir Hussain & the old tome fav-Take Five by Dave Brubeck ( rings a bell ? ).We then switched to the Baby SET & listened to Take Five again for comparative purposes.The rest of the session was with the baby SET.
Impressions?
The smaller SET Amp has 85-90 % of the tonality of the regular SET Amp at 50 % of the price & would be therefore a good entry point for Newbie Audiophile on a budget.
There was adequate power to fill Virens' 10 X 12 room and it generated enough of bass at those SPL levels,did'nt feel constricted ; an acceptable solution at that price point, I thought.
Sanjay & others will prob post their own impressions, but this is what I came away with.

Hi !

Hearing is believing, so I wont describe. However, I would certainly like to titillate your fancy by some glimpses from the meet:

The Star


The Co-star


The Maestro


The Jing-bang !

From Left to Right: Sanjay, Ravi's Friend, Ravi, Tikendra, Kamal and Viren !

Click here for more photos !

Thanks for the photos, it looks like you had a great time. I expect some of the folks in the last photo are from HiFiVision? I don't recognize some of the faces.

Lovely snaps - good job Doc !!
You guys had a blast - it seems. Nice.
Keep the +ve energy flowing !!

Nice Pics, doc.

Humanises these posts & posters...

I also liked your captions on the other pics..

Thanks