Manek and Arj needed

how about dynaudio audience 62(2 way) or 72(3 way) ?

Totem also used dynaudio drivers....

manek.

gee cheraz....
that a long wait....very long wait....have you recvd your wadia and krell ?

manek.

Yep Manek. I have got my krell and wadia. The problem is my speakers. How would you compare the dynaudio to the totems. As far as price is consered they are half as that of the totems. Remember I have a large listening area. What do you say about Deifvitive 7000 series?

Actually I would rate the dynaudio higher as they are very good speakers and they know their drivers best. Definitive good for HT but from what I read on other forums they dont make very good stereo music speakers.

The dynaudio audience 72 and 82 are very good. They give a big sound but need lots of grunt and your krell will drive them well.
If you want something better in Dynaudio, the Dynaudio Contour S3.4 and S5.4 are really very very good. Ofcourse dynaudio also has speakers in the 10K and greater US dollar range after this.....

Do remember that all dynaudio speakers are single wired....they dont make bi-wired crossovers. This does not mean they are bad.....its just the design.

There is a dealer of dynaudio in bombay called soudsmiths. They also have a website. I am pretty sure they would have an outlet in Bangalore where you can hear them.

I also recommend the Jamo D870. Big speakers with big sound but smooth as silk. My first preference would still be cadence but you said the last time you would rather go in for boxed speakers hence the choices of Dynaudio and Jamo.

You should be able to hear both brands in bangalore and then choose.

Manek.

Manek,
I found out that soundsmith in Bombay are retailing the 82 for 1 lakh and the 72 for Rs.68,000 afer all discounts. What say? The contours are way above my budget ( 210,000).

Manek, I am going on your advise for the Dynaudio 82. He has agreed to a final price of 90K. Sounds good,na?

you gonna buy them from bombay ? does he not have an outlet in bangalore where you can listen to ?

I have heard the 72, 82's and they are good but I still feel you should listen to them. Ask him if there are any people in bangalore who sell them or own them.

I know how it is to have a cdp and an amp but no speakers....kinda like having a cigar with no matches.

Dont be in a hurry.....but they are good speakers...82's are bass heavy in a small to medium room but since you have a large listening area they would be apt. They are 3 way speakers with 4 drivers, 2 for bass, one mid-range and one tweeter.

manek.

Yep from bombay. Would love to hear them but it does not seem possible. And no he does not have any shop in bangalore and he has not sold it to anyone out hear. Amp&Cdp is not only like a cigar without matches but more like a lit one but can`t smoke. After you told me I did my homework and evryone seem to agree that the 82`s are quite exceptional. I think I`ll go my that. As I have told you I listen to a lot of rock (heavy and soft)and jazz.

Tell me does the real wood finsh or the vinyl finish affect the sound. As the 82`s come in both these. Also now that I already have the biwire cables,it can be used as single wires also, na?

real wood finish I always prefer becuase I like the looks of it. Nothing to do with the sound. The MDF they use is the the same. the top cover changes. Its like having ordinaty paint and metal paint on a car. Same car, same performance.

Your biwire cables can be used. Just use one pair per speaker...thats all. Some people try and push both pairs onto one speaker terminal both sides..dont do that you may end up shorting them.

What cables have you got ?

Manek.

I have the Transparent biwires. I was reading thru the other article about mains conditioners and that reminded me about my servo stabilizer. Can you give me the name of that chap you had suggested who was from Delhi. Also some people told me that these will give a hum in the sound. Is it true? And what is your opinion on these mains conditioners?

yes...that is true....Actually Mahendra dave(cadence) and I have been trying to find a good solution for power. Some of the stabilizers we tried did introduce hum....some just screwed up the sound.....I would choose only after a demo.

cadence werte trying to tie up with PS audio of USA for their products but nothing has come out of it so far as the products turn out to be hugely expensive.

The name is vinitec. Try good companies like APC, emerson also. Both APC and emerson asre both american and are big names in UPS systems and voltage correctors in the world.

Monster has power line conditioners now selling in India. They may be nice. Any monster dealer will have them.

manek.

I have already checked out both APC and emerson. But they do not make servo type stabilizers. Will ordinary type do? Also the max power consumption on the krell is 2000W. While the standby is 35W and the idle is 80W. Does that mean I would need a stabilizer of 2KW. I ask because I already have a servo stabilizer from by earlier system, but it has a 1KW rating.

max 2000W would mean 2Kw of stabilizer for amp only...what about the cdp and other sources.

I ideally your stabilizer should have approx 25-30% more headroom than the sum of your peak power consumption of all items connected to it.

manek.

so when do you take delivery of the dyn's ?

manek.

My house UPS will take care of the voltage flucluations while I plan to buy the PS Audio Autimate Outlet (High Current) for protection against surges and spikes. What do you feel? I am waiting for my money from the earlier dealer for the Totems and then will go and buy the Dyno`s. That should be in the next few days.

House UPS ? If You mean an invertor then invertors are not very good for audio systems for continuous use. All invertors, offline UPS systems give a quasi-sine wave output _|~|_ and its not a smooth S shaped curve. This makes audio systems prone to problems like hum, component weakness, electrical noise etc.
So what out please. Nothing better than a servo stabilizer.

Have you found a place where you can source the PS audio power conditioner or iis it the same guy from dubai ? sounds good but make sure you get a 200-230V unit and not the US voltage.

manek.

My invertor at home is a Sucam 2KVA full sine wave invertor. And I have a 1KVA servo stabilizer which should work as I am not going to be driving the krell even close to max output as the speakers will blow before that. The krell have a max output of 500W at 4 ohms.
And yes there is this guy Merbin Colah having a shop called Innovative Technology in Bombay who is dealing with PS Audio stuff. He is also the dealer for transparent cables. He is giving basically a spike and surge protector to me for 19K. The power conditioners are frightfully expensive ( about 1.2). Let me know if you have anyone else who has these.
And he seem to be against taping the biwires. He said there will be a big loss as the end will be live. Makes sense and maybe not. Guess you can have something to say about that? Do let me know. He is telling me to return the biwires to him and he would give me the singles. I don`t know?

one point at a time.

Sucam....please dont believe all that crap about perfect sinewave. People struggle to bring about a perfect sine wave from an invertor and these devices cost a bomb. I know this is their marketing strategy and unless you connect an oscilloscpope to the output and check the sine wave one will never know. what they do is get a quasi sine wave and apply filters to try and modify the shape of the wave. One of my vendors got an oscilloscpoe and connected it and say it was not a clean sine wave.

secondly your amp will pull the max load mentioned when you start it and it will reach its peak during startup so you will end up blowing your stabilizer/invertor on startup if they are not of a higher rating expecially when other components are attached to it...not during amp running. To give you an example...my firends integra power amp pull so much load on start up that his house lights dim out whenever he puts it on. Nothing wrong with the amp...just that it pulls that load to start up.

Marbin...no use buying a Psaudio power conditioner for 19k. see if you can get it from abroad since you have a source.

You mentioned you have the transparent bi-wire. Transparent usually have a network box somewhere along the length. That box has a few passive components which may be commonly connected to all strands and that is what could make all four lengths live. I dont think it should make so much of a difference. You just have to make sure that the ends are taped really well. Try it out....why dont you write to transparent cable and ask them directly, marbin might be trying to get a pair of bi-wires cheap.

manek.

I have already written to Transparent and am waiting for a reply.
The PS audio abroad is for $300. Add the shipping and it does not make that much a difference pricewise. I did`nt get what you meant. Do you mean PS Audio is not worth it or that buying it hear is not worth it.

I did pay quite a bit more for the Sucam and it does not give a hum in the fans and EBABX, so I guess it is better but I am not sure whether it is OK for audio equipment. OR in that case I will disconnect the audio from the invertor line and put a servo stabilizer of 2.5kva,. There is not much other equipment right now connected as the cdp is drawing only 35W. This stabilizer is worring me as no branded company is making them. I will have to trust one of these local companies.

As far as the cables are conserned, I had no plans to go for Marbin`s suggestion. Only wanted your view. Have you heard about Marbin? He acts over friendly for the fact that I don`t know him at all.

about Ps audio...I thought no use buying it here from marbin of you can purchase it abroad....do check what marbin is selling, the model no and what it basically does... then check out the corresponding price in dubai.

BTW...I dont like the way he does business....and his pricing on the transparent and vdh cables is way off the international pricing. You are not the first person to say something not quite right about marbin.

yes, if you have the wrong stabilizer then you will hear a hum in your equipment, There will be extra noise in the electrical output which your amp and cdp could happily do without.


manek.

Hi cheraz & Manek.
tis been ages since i could login..

Interesting converstaion here. I agree with manek on the sine wave. very few companies (PS Audio, Equal power, ISO clean) have been able to create power regenerators...and the PS Audio PS300 range is perhaps the best as it generates a sinewave from scratch...and is frightfully expensive.
i was in bangalore for a month and the biggest culprit I found was the power...not only the fluctuation but the form factor as well...the frequency also varies from 50Hz. my setup which was very good in singapore, suddenly lost the sopundstage as well as the strogbase...tho the treble improved

Mumbai appears to be much better off on that.

UPS/Invertors are not a good alternative as it takes over only if the power fails...and does not condition the power...and its ouput is more of a square wave than a sine

also remember than a powerconditioner does good things only to the source. in case of amps..whose current requirements vary quickly, these things can actually affect the dynamics as they may limit the curent
The PS audio300 is around 1299 USD and should form a beter upgrade than a source/Amp upgrade in many cases...

just my .02

hi there pal.....
you now in bangalore ? Nice to hear from you again.

Cheraz, I saw another power conditioner from monster with equipment insurance. it costs 10,900 in india and the writing on the box says it cleans up all the A/C line noise.
Maybe you can find a place to try it out in bangalore. Please make sure you dont purchase a power conditioner without hearing a system on it since they are known to screw up the sound most of the time...arj is right.

manek.

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Manek I spoke to Monster Bangalore but they don`t keep the conditioners. I also spoke to La-Kosy Bombay. They had it and it was 11k. That seems OK but still the trial seems impossible. Bangalore is just blank as far as audio equipment is concerned. And as Arj says the power situation in bangalore is pathetic.
So that still leaves me with what kind of voltage stabilizer to use?

hey cheraz....dont use the monster......a friend of mine in US tried it out...no good...he ripped it open as well only to find no buffers...just hardwire from one socket to another......so monster is out of my books !!!

Why dont you conact Mr. Murthy and talk to him. I have already passed on the e-mail address to you murthytt@yahoo.com. He is recommended by the AV max reviewer kiranbir nag who had procured this stuff an using it and is extremely happy.

manek.

Manek,
thats true for most line conditioners in that range. most are passive and mostly clean up RFI

Cheraz, if you have anyone in Singapore, try to procure the ZINDAK FS1000 line conditioner...should cost only arpund 200-250 SGD and is the best in terms of performance in upto the 500 USD range.

try for a local Servo controlled Stabilizer (Need to use along with a good line conditioner for better results) that should definitely be better than the Raw power !!

Sorry guys,been out of town.
Arj do you have any details on the Zindak web site or singapore address. Maybe I could check it out.
Manek, I contacted Murthy. And he put me on to his bangalore guy for the servo stabilizer. He has this servo stabilizer of 3KVA with RFI/EMI filters. It also has a spike suppressor. I think I`ll go with that and put a power conditioner after that. Now Murty also has a power conditioner which he makes which is about 30K. I`ll hear it and see if it really makes a difference. Thanks any way.

Cheraz,

the singapore dealers website is http://www.xaudio.com.sg/xaudio/Product.htm

the manufacturer website is
http://www.xindakaudio.com/

if you can get it from china it may be around 30-40% cheaper.

Arj, I did check out the sites. Thanks. Have you seen the PS Audio High Current Ultimate Power conditioners. How would you rate them compared to the Xindak?

considering the fact that they are 10 time more expensive, they better be much better (Yes they are)

But in the Indian scenario it is going to be the Servo controlled stabiliser which is going to be your bottleneck..hence a PSAudio might not be able to work to potential as it does not produce a sine wave..only cleans the power.

The ideal ..if willing to pay the price would be the PSaudio 300/500 etc...

10 times ???
PS Audio UO (High Current) is for USD399. But this is not a power conditioner only a hum buster and spike controller.

cheraz....have your dyn's arrived ?

manek.

I have bought them finally. They are still in Bombay. They should be arriving to Bangalore somewhere next week.

Ok...hook em up and let us know.

YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeH!!!!!!!

I finally got my dyno`s 82. I was so exited that I went home much earlier than normal unable to really concentrate on work, just wondering how they are going to sound.

As soon as I reached home I got to unpacking the speakers. First thought as I saw the package was that it was a factory sealed piece. Good. Then I wanted to unpack it correctly. Lovely packaging.

First Problem : The input terminal has connectors that can take only a bare wire or it has this plastic holder which has a small hole at the bottom and a plastic screw assembly in which only half of my spade ending go thru. What do I do????
Anyways I had to try them so, I screwed half of the spade and tightened the screw. Worked OK but not for too long I guess.

I have connected the krell to the servo stabalizer thru the PS Audio UO and the Wadia directly to the stabilizer. Sounds Good?

Ok now the main bit. I took out a few of my Cd`s which I had decided to play first. I saw to it that they comprised a wide selection of different types of music.
I started with Dave Koz. I had to raise my wadia vol control to 30/100 to even hear something. Sound at first was a bit muddled but started to clear up in some time. Sax was sounding nice,could be better. But I raised the volume to almost 60 to make it sound better afetr about 20 mins. Days of dreams was beautiful. After about 30 mins I decided to listen to U2 (the latest one). Now U2 has this quality that it either sounds super or downright crap on different systems. I got the latter. No boom on the bass, only a clang. Tried the second song, was much better. Manek how long will this breaking in take?
After about 2 hours of listening I got out the sting (Spanish version). WOW!!! They were sounding so sweet. Big sound on all.

But the volume is still troubling me. Will they sound louder as time passes and all the various components of the hole system break in?
All in all it was a eventful day yesterday. I am dying to start todays session in the night. Yesterday was a good 5-6 hrs of music.
Will tell you my thoughts of today`s tomorrow.

Chao.

Hi cheraz....your speakers will take about 100 hrs minimum to break in....so will your CDP, your amp and cables. Since everything is new..it will take time to settle down....

Placement of the speakers is critical. Want more bass move them closer to the back wall.....

Your highs, mids and bass will clear up a bit once you have a few hours on the clock, atleast 50.

About the volume....the volume pot on the wadia could be a passive unit. In my opinion your system will not sound louder after break-in, only clearer. Maybe your power amp would need more voltage/gain to drive it and speakers to louder levels than what the wadia can output.

But what stops you from turning the wadia volume upto 60 anyways ? As long as there is no distortion or clipping of amplifier...you are fine.

As far as your spades go if they dont seem to fit then the only way out is to have them terminated with the spades or banana's that fit. Wonder if there are adaptors available which will do the trick for you without you having to cut your factory terminated spades ?

Manek.

Hi Cheraz,

Manek said it right, do not pass any judgement till they are broken in...leave them running over this weekend in and empty room and then listen to them

regarding sound quality. Wadia are leaders at a technology dealing with Digital volume control. technically the problem with this has been that this means lower resolution at lower volumes in the past hence many folks advice having a passive preamp attached and using the digital sound control only for small volume changes.

But wadia have apparently evolved this technology to overcome the above..although there might still be an effect on this. hence perhaps your finding of better resolution at higher volumes.

suggest you find out from other forums about wadia`s volume control using a direct input to a power amp so that any doubts on that can be laid to rest..

otherwise good speaker positioning. Isolation of the cdp and a good solid support for your amp should do wonders to your sound as your setup as individual components is really a good one.

Enjoy your music..

Thanks guys,

Firstly Manek, what do you mean when you say that the amp requires more voltage/gain? I have a stabilizer that is giving 230V. How can that be changed?

And regarding the spades, the dealer told me that it is perfectly OK even if one spade goes thru and if it is screwed on tight. Is that right?

I was reading thru the Wadia site and they say that there is a switch which can be used to change the output vol for large or smaller rooms. I`ll check that out today.

And Arj,as far as the placement of speakers, I don`t have much choice. Any of you guys visiting Bangalore shortly? Do let me know. Maybe you can help out in that. Till then I`ll enjoy my everyday changes and recording them.

Yesterday I tried playing some of the same stuff I played on the first day. God!! There was subtle changes. I was thrilled. Sounds came out of instuments that I did`nt know were there on my previous setup.

And Arj, I have a glass shelf supporting my cdp and amp which is kept one above the other within a wooden cabinet. Only that the heat of the amp which is below the cdp get the whole cabinet quite warm.

That all.

And regarding the spades, the dealer told me that it is perfectly OK even if one spade goes thru and if it is screwed on tight. Is that right? .

Thats not very true. you will be better off with the barewire as the cotact area will not be high this way and hence more contact resistance , which is not good.

And Arj, I have a glass shelf supporting my cdp and amp which is kept one above the other within a wooden cabinet. Only that the heat of the amp which is below the cdp get the whole cabinet quite warm.

WOuld seriously recommend maneks approach of a cork sheet or at least a good MDF wood block under each, especially under the CDP. Wadia cdp are otherwise quite well acoustically damped and have a good support hence you need not go for too many tweaks.
In case you have a door to the cabinet, keep it open while playing for good heat dissipation (I trust you have read the Krell Manual on how much , if any, space is to be left on all 4 sides..)

Regarding the gain, it is not related to the powersupply, but related to the component. usuall CDP output is around the 2V range but Wadia has an option of gain control. that would be the control you read about in the site. keep it minimumm possible so you can raise the volume to the maximum...

cheers
Am currently in switzerland..would love to hear your setup when i am in bangalore..

Arj,

I have read the krell manual regarding space on the sides, & top in which they reccomend atleast 2". But in my case I have more than 2"(almost 4")on top but 1/2" on the sides. This I am compansating by making holes on the side of the cabinet. That should be ok as there will be a cross ventilation created between the front which will be open.

Bare Wires??? You mean I cut the spades which are factory fitted?? That seems a crime. Instead I am trying to cut the plastic surrounding the shaft of the terminals to allow the spades to go thru. This plastic is only a protection for the spades in contact.

When are you visiting Bangalore next? Do let me know.
cheraz@vsnl.net

Hi ! Arj has answered the question you put to me on voltage/gain.

Its the output voltage/gain level of the cdp into the power amp which actually drives the power amp. Since Wadia has the option of choosing the output gain why dont you try out the settings and see which suits you. Make sure you change the gain settings only after you switch off your equipment. Start the equipment always with volume set to zero and turn the volume knob gently to hear the gain setting difference other wise you might land up with a sudden surge of loud misic which may damage your equipment.

manek.

Hi Cheraz, Manek and Arj,

I came across this forum recently and was following your thread. Cheraz you have an excellent source and amp, the Dynaudio 82 should complete the system.

For running in the speakers you can try placing them close together face to face with one speaker connected out of phase, a blanket can seal the sound from escaping, play music with good dynamic range at medium sound level and gradually increasing it to loud. Leave the set up playing overnight can get the speakers loosened. Check the sound inthe morning and if it improved continue this overnight running in til you hear no further improvement in sound quality. Since the speakers are wired out of phase if you play mono source you are not troubled much by the screeching of the new speakers.

Another point you can try is connecting the Wadia straight to Power amp of the Krell by passing krell amp and using Wadia volume control. It may sound better taht way since you have avoided one stage of amplification.

Wishing youhappy listening

Anil

Ani, welcome to the forum.

What you said might work, but as Manek had earlier said, which is very true, that there is a pleasure in noticing the subtle changes in your system as time passes. I as it keep my music playing if I am in the house so keeping it on the whole night would be pushing it a bit too much.

And I have connected the Wadia to the krell power amp as I don`t have a pre and am using the wadia vol control.

Yesterday I did increase the gain from the cdp and my word there was a huge increase in volume.
Thanks guys.

cheraz,

Set the gain to what you like to hear and what suits the room.
A step up from the orginal setting sounds ideal.

manek.

HI Cheraz,

Hope the sound is much better now !!

Try keeping the gain as low and volume as high. my guess is that you should have more resolution that way...

it may sound criminal..but either get it reterminated, or use bare wire. this way is not going to do the sound much good

will get in touch with you when i am back in a couple of months...would love to hear your setup