Bi-amp- power+ int. amp with a pre-amp

nietzsche schrieb:

hi, I would like to try bi-amp, an integrated amp + power amp with a pre-amp. Is it advisable? regards

Yup. use the Int amp as a power amp.with its normal inputs, this can be done By increasing the volume knob at MAximum.

some have a power amp in so there it is easu

I am assumoing that both are the same brand/power rating. different amps have different gains hence if not matched well you will have a problem !

Does your intergrated amp have a Pre amp out / Power amp Input jumper at the rear ?

You can then remove the jumper and use it as a Power Amp.

The KEY Issue to using 2 separate Power amops, is to ensure that they both Have EXACTLY the same internal gain.

Thanks Amp_nut and Arj, My pre is rotel, power amp and integrated amplifiers are of different make and power ratings also differ. The power amp rating is – 200 watts at 8 ohms. The integrated amp rating is – 100 watts at 8 ohms.

Yes, the int. amp is having a jumper. As suggested by Amp_nut, I will remove the jumper and then try. But the problem is power ratings are different, in that case gain will differ as rightly pointed out by Arj. What shall I do?

Shall I hook up the int. amp out to highs and power amp out to lows on both the speakers. Is it ok? Whether this type of bi-amping will give me night and day difference? Or Shall I wait to pick up a similar power amp and then try?

regards

Shall I hook up the int. amp out to highs and power amp out to lows on both the speakers. Is it ok? Whether this type of bi-amping will give me night and day difference? Or Shall I wait to pick up a similar power amp and then try?

Dude your understanding has shook me violently..

Let me know what make of speakers are you planning to connect with and which is the int and power amp???.. If you don't gicve us details it's tough to advice you.

Nietzsche

What do you intend to do with all this???

nietzsche said

Whether this type of bi-amping will give me night and day difference?

Bi Amping will generally improve the sound... more power, more resolution.... but dont look for a night & day difference ...

Bi Amping will generally improve the sound... more power, more resolution.... but dont look for a night & day difference

Day and night diffrence, I'm yet to see some tweak which can give that quantum of diffrence.. of course you stupidly do something you will end up in such situations where your SQ as good as day will turn into night

Here is an article which thoroughly discusses bi-amping with pictures. I respect this author, and has been subscribing to his school of thought since long. Subbu may go through it.

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

For this firstly, Subbu needs a pair of speakers that allow bi-amping (= bypassing of the internal passive crossover).

Secondly, he needs a good active crossover, which needs to be connected in the following manner to the drivers.

Source----> Preamp ----> active crossover (low pass)-----> Poweramp ----> Woofer


Active crossover (high pass) ------> Poweramp------------> Tweeter

In India, a good active crossover is very difficult to obtain. I experimented on these lines using a Behringer analog active crossover with variable crossover frequencies (basically meant for PA systems) for sometime, but was not very successful in obtaining good sound quality. However, some (including well respected members of www.diyaudio.com) swear by the product I had used. The digital crossovers of Behringer are supposed to be even better (I do not have any experience with them), which can instantly and flawlessly set the crossover orders, types (Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley), and points, for one to find out the best-sounding arrangement between woofer and tweeter. So, as Subbu can see, he has lot of experimentation to do if he decides to follow this route. Also, he has to ensure that he follows the same kind of arrangement for the left and right channels in a stereo to rule out the phase-related problems.

However, if he is still interested, there is a guy in Singapore, who will make an audiophile grade fixed active crossover according to your specifications, and send it across to India for a reasonable price (let me know in that case). F-Mods, which are passive, can also be used instead of an active crossover after the preamp and before the poweramp in the chain. Oulaw Audio manufactures an active crossover for home users, for bi-amping purposes. There is another company in the link given below, which manufactures a product specifically for biamping of speakers by audiophiles. It says all speakers with passive crossovers are going to be dinosaurs that will become extinct in few more years.

http://www.deqx.com/DEQX-Advertisement-Nov04.html

Sonodyne too has an active crossover in its product line, but it is again for PA systems. I do not know about its suitability for audiophile setups.

Thirdly, scientifically speaking, I do not think different brands of amplifiers would have any adverse bearing on the bi-amped sound, as long as these amplifiers are well measured, and belong to well-respected companies. The lower powered amplifiers should typically power the tweeters in a bi-amped setup. Gains of both amps need to be suitably calibrated and adjusted in any case (same brand /different brands), which would again be an arduous process.

The website of the guy from Singapore (Michael Chua) is here:

http://www.ampslab.com/crossover.htm

Though the above is more subwoofer specific, you can order for a crossover frequency between mids and tweeters as well.

John Pomann's active crossover kit based on Rod Elliott's design is here:

http://ldsg.snippets.org/FILTERS/Pomann/crossover.htm

Soundlabs' active crossover is here:

http://www.soundlabs...active_crossover.htm

Rod Elliott himself sells a kit based on his design. Refer to the Wethost website for this.

My sincere thanks to Trojan horse, Sub boss, Amp-nut and KSPV for your responses.

“Day and night difference, I'm yet to see some tweak which can give that quantum of difference. Of course you stupidly do something you will end up in such situations where your SQ as good as day will turn into night”
(Emphasis supplied)

Agreed sub-boss, I am unable to stop the belly laughter… Good punch!!!

“Dude your understanding has shook me violently.

Let me know what make of speakers are you planning to connect with and which is the integrated and power amp???.. If you don't give us details it's tough to advice you. – Trojan Horse.”

Hi, TJ, I am looking out for ultimate-bliss. In the process rule of law has to be breached & beaten path to be abandoned. Ok. It is a Marantz int. amp – 100 watts, bi-wiring FLRS ( 150 watts) and power amp (200 watts).



” Bi Amping will generally improve the sound... more power, more resolution.... but don’t look for a night & day difference ... ”

Roger, amp-nut.


Thanks, Pawan garu.

It is a Marantz int. amp – 100 watts, bi-wiring FLRS ( 150 watts)and power amp (200 watts).

Subbu, I am beginning to suspect that what you are aiming at, is passive biamping, for which you do not need an external active crossover. However, passive biamping (where two amplifiers are used in a bi-wiring connection) is thought to be a waste of money. Although there may be some moderate sonic benefits, they are not worth the expense of the extra amplifier.

True biamping can only be with a top-quality, external stereo active crossover!