What Are We Doing To Our Music?

I don't know exactly how to put it but when i listen to the present popular music I always feel as if there are empty areas on the stage in front of me... where music should have been..... there is no music.. just a beat....everything else is sort of incidental...

viren schrieb:

An essential read: http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm Viren.

i've been painfully aware of this (& I'm sure that many others on this forum have as well). It's the unfortunate truth esp. so for mass-fi music. The genres of Classical, Jazz & Blues have not been hit by this malaise as much & hopefully will continue not to be. (I can cite several examples where the music in these genres have been mauled/degraded).
IMHO it is a case of supply & demand: what the public demands & what the music industry provides.
The general public world-wide is not concerned much about dynamic range, compression, soundstage width & height, imaging, etc. They just want music.
Without meaning to be condescending towards the MP3 player crowd on this forum, if the public has "eaten" the iPod & similar devices w/ such a voracious appetite, can we expect any better from them in terms of the quality of the recorded sound.
Sure there are several people (many on this forum) who own iPods but can still distinguish between high(er) quality sound & compressed sound. However, their numbers are too small for the music industry to pay any attention to. it's the Joe-bloe on the street that they are largely catering to & he/she doesn't care a damn.

I also think that the average joe is not to be blamed completely. If he has never heard the dynamic music and has been brought up on a steady diet of the current stuff then how is he to know .... I mean how will he miss something he never had?
It is as if a whole generation is being conditioned to accept mediocrity ...and music is not the only field -- others are there as well.. food for one!

I think this malaise affects the whole audio industry - that of catering to the lowest common denominator.

It's a sad commentary on the music publishing industry that seems to be run by number crunchers who have no idea about the creative side of music making. I just wasn't aware of how bad current popular recordings have become.

The customer is not totally to blame though. You have to entice them with better products. And the high-end industry hasn't helped either - they've made their domain too exclusive. Ideally, there should be a midway meeting of minds!

Viren.

Hi all,

I too agree with you regarding compressed loud CD's and the limit came when I listened to the LP Best of DS & Mark Knopfler, how they compress that original recording and that too by some one like Bob Ludwig. Why cannt they leave LP's alone, most of the vinyl listeners sure will prefer to hear the minscule dynamic range capability of their loved media

This who's is louder game started right from the 70's may be in late 60's, when record companies wanted to make their singles louder on radio and thus started the doom of original disk buyers.

Any one of come across Indian BMG release of Western Classical Music ? They are charging you Rs. 325 for a CDR !! genuine Moser Baer screen printed (single colour) beats most of the pirated ones !!

As Viren pointed out hi end equip manufacturers are not helping in this regard. Unless one is exposed to the capabilities and limitations of recorded music reproduction one cannot say which is good or bad. We used to have many local bands and every fortnight at least one live show used to be there, but from 80's onwards even the restaurants have started having one man band with programmable dumb box and keyboard. So the probability of a 25 yrs old having been to a live music programme is very low, how can you expect him to judge a rim shot of a snare ? Is the kick drum sounding right or was it the electric Bass ? forget about the trumpet and sax

So we are in puddle without a reference standard taken for a ride by some, thank god not all, music companies and equipmanufacturers.

Hi Ani,

Nice avatar

Thank you Mohan, my other hobby

Photography..........oops thats another expensive hobby, but not atleast blurred like our audio

True ani, how true. The new generation just dont have a reference to acoustic music in today's day and age....why, most of the new stuff is all about generating "sounds" from an electronic "sound generator machine" as loudly as possible. Secondly kids may just be damaging their hearing capabilities listening to the thrash dished out at very high volumes.

And as rightly mentioned, how can there be a demand for better recorded stuff when they dont know better ?

Manek.

Have been painfully aware of this for a long time now It sucks the life out of the music. It is an incurable disease which is fast spreading. Hope they leave the good music out of this………

True ani, how true. The new generation just dont have a reference to acoustic music in today's day and age....why, most of the new stuff is all about generating "sounds" from an electronic "sound generator machine" as loudly as possible. Secondly kids may just be damaging their hearing capabilities listening to the thrash dished out at very high volumes. And as rightly mentioned, how can there be a demand for better recorded stuff when they dont know better ? Manek.

Sir, this is demand and supply chain phenomena.. BTW when in today's workd MP3's Cd's are available at 25 bucks with 150 songs who would want to spend 600 - 800 for a Cd with only 10 numbers..and the boom boxes sound same on a ref CD or a ripped crappy 25 bucks MP3..

And Viren the title should've actually been

What have they done to our music

My only consolation is that there is hardly any new music or musicians (my taste);) They cannot compress the LP's and CD's that are on my shelf

ani, what are your tastes in music ?


manek.

ani schrieb:

My only consolation is that there is hardly any new music or musicians (my taste);) They cannot compress the LP's and CD's that are on my shelf :D

That was a good one…
I too am not too worried as most of what I listen to was done decades back. But there are a few artists I like out there. I wish they don’t screw that up.

Manek,

My desert Island Discs,

1. Cliff Richard Love songs (compromising would like to carry the whole bunch)
2. Shadows
3. Heifetz Mendelssohn Violin Concerto E minor
4. Bread Anthology
5. Dire Straits Bros In arm (sentimental value else would prefer their second album )
6. K.J.Jesudos. Malayalam Light music Vol 2
7. Beethovan Symphonies Karajan on DG

If allowed my whole collection that includes 60's pop, wester calssical and little bit of Jazz (not my fav) 70's Eagles, Bread, Toto kind and 80's DS, Simply Red, 90,s dont know :). Country music of Don williams, Willie Nelson, etc.

Hope that will give you a fair idea of my preference.

BTW whay dont we start a thread on desert isaland disc ?

Warm regards

Anil

K.J.Jesudos

Oops it's K.J.Yesudas is right, but Jesudos is a colloqial term

He is very near to "him"

whay dont we start a thread on desert isaland disc ?

I would probably take my iPod... it has ALL my music on it.... over 25 GB
But then again, I would probably prefer a few select CDs, played at a MUCH higher replay quality, from my stereo

Amp-Nut good idea, desert island disc concept is redundant. I''l also go get an ipod Long live ipod. What a nice way to hijack a thread

I'm afraid that I do not totally agree w/ some of the members who state that the present generation doesn't have a reference for what music should sound like.
Yes, they might have started out this way but these days there are ample opportunities to correct this "condition".
There are several concerts in India these days & several well reknowned artists have come over to play in various Indian cities. With a burgeoning middle-class in India, these concerts are very much accessible to those very people.
Also, there are several AV shows in India & if the Times AV Show in BOM in Nov 2005 was any guide for me, then, there are masses of people who attend these shows. There are several good enough examples of higher quality audio at these shows that would help in correcting these people's lack of sound quality reference.
Amongst the exploding middle-class, the separation between individuals who have decent stereo systems has also narrowed.
I was very pleasantly surprised to find just how savvy the new middle-class gentry is about name brands & which brand(s) is(are) perceived to be better than others. It was heartening to see this i.e. the ramp-up is/was/remains swift.
This text provides a case for making a change to the music quality for the better.

However, it is like SUB_BOSS & I wrote: it's a question of supply & demand. I would like to add another factor: convenience. With the population world-wide always on-the-go, people are having less & less time to spend at any one location. Japan is a case-in-point. Who would have thought, at the onset of cellular communications, that one day cellphones would have 1GB memory to store MP3 songs?
I also think that we are seeing a (major) case of what people are looking for - most people do not really care for the quality of the sonics. Hardly anyone cares for perceptible hearing, hearing nuances, etc. In fact, most people think that we are crazy when we describe what we are looking for in our music + what prices we pay for our electronics & speakers.
Thus, w/ the masses putting very little value in good sonics, the music industry is all too happy to provide a whole lot of sh** quality music to them! The hi-end audio industry will remain a cottage industry (in comparison).
This text provides a case for NOT making a change to the music quality for the better.
IMHO. FWIW.

Hi,

Maybe we are seeing a decline in values at work. It used to be that when companies put out a product, in addition to making money, they attempted to put out the best they could do. That attitude came from people who were genuinely interested in their work. For the music publishing industry in particular, there is absolutely no reason to regress, when they have so many excellent examples of recordings from the 60s and 70s in their vaults. Somebody there just has to have enough interest to carry the legacy on.

Viren.

Viren, there are very few, including the recording companies that care about the good recordings of the 70's. I know what you mean as I have some excellent ones. The remastered/re-issues of the same screw things up even more as the old masters are replaced with the new not so good ones in the vaults.

Really wonder if the audio engineers of today in general lack the skills and the ears of those of yester year ? This thought comes to my mind very often but dont know if it is true.

Manek.

Hi Guys,

Here is another interesting POV.It should us some cause for cheer.

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/story/0,,1803514,00.html

Thanks, Krish, it is heartening to read that, atleast, music is alive in the younger generation!

Viren.