Cable truth Part - 1

full dowload of this article here

http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Greenhill.pdf

Nice ABX comparison, BTW it is a 9 MB dowmoad

full dowload of this article here http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/Greenhill.pdf

oops sorry then I delete my posting....I just could manage to get these tidbits from roger russell papers..thanks

i actually thought your post gave the summary of it quite well... dont think u should have deleted it tho (I certainly do not have a copyright to it !!)

Arjun Here we go again....

(I certainly do not have a copyright to it !!)

Thanks for your understanding, so far as CP's are concerned you are still the undisputed contributor of this topic in a more comprehensive manner...keep them coming..

Stereo Review Dares to Tell the Truth (1983)

A 6-page article by Laurence Greenhill titled "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?" was published in Stereo Review magazine on August 1983. It compared Monster cable, 16-gauge wire and 24-gauge wire. The price at that time for a pair of 30-foot lengths of monster cables was $55.00. The cost for 16 gauge heavy lamp cord was $.30/foot or $18.00 and the 24 gauge "speaker wire" was $.03/foot or $1.80

"...So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24 gauge wire commonly sold or given away as 'speaker cable.' Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic--higher resistance per foot--that made 24 gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires"

Needless to say there was a strong letter to the editor in the October Stereo Review from Noel Lee, President of Monster Cable. "...was not the conclusion of nearly three thousand Monster Cable purchasers who participated in a warranty/response card survey in 1981-1982. Among those responding, 56 per cent indicated 'an overall significant improvement, '42 per cent attested to a 'noticeable improvement,' and only 2 per cent wrote back that they heard no difference in system performance."...

Yes, some of this claim is believable but for the wrong reasons. If the wire used previously had resistance that was too high, there would be an audible difference. If the wire connections at the amplifier or speaker were loose or corroded, installing the new cable tightly would make an audible difference.

Then we get into the more subjective evaluation. Suppose you're already using adequate size wire and have good connections at the speaker and amplifier. If you're then told the new wire will make an improvement, you will be looking for it and truly believe that you hear an improvement. Some people might go as far as saying "If I spent all that money for these cables, you can be sure I'm going to hear a difference." (rather than admit I wasted my money or have bad hearing).

There are other factors as well. If you listen to the system with the old wires and then replace them with the new ones, it could take 5 or 10 minutes to do this. By then you will have forgotten what the old sound was like. How many of the customers made an instant and more reliable comparison like what was done in Gordon Gow's demonstration or in the Stereo Review test? I wonder how these customers would fare in a test where they didn't know which wire was being used.

Stereo Review Gets More Conservative (1990)

A 5 page article by Rich Warren titled "Getting Wired" was published in Stereo Review in June 1990. It devotes 4 and a half pages to the creative claims and descriptions by the various wire manufacturers. Near the end of the article reference is made to an Audio Engineering Society paper by R. A. Greiner published in the JAES in May 1980 and titled "Amplifier-Loudspeaker Interfacing." The conclusion is that speaker cables do not behave as transmission lines despite the theory subscribed to by many, if not most, esoteric cable designers.

This time the conclusion in Stereo Review was extremely conservative. Perhaps this was due to the influence of speaker wire advertisers who pay for their magazine ads. As in Gordon Gow's wire demonstration, wire sales, advertising and dealer profits were hurt by the truth about speaker wire.

"Are there real sonic differences between audio cables? We leave that up to each individual to decide. What we can say is that there are some valid reasons, described in the box on the facing page (cable pictures and manufacturer descriptions), to use good cables in your hi-fi system. Which theory you choose to subscribe to and how high a price you're willing to pay for cable comfort is up to you."

An Honest Answer from Sound & Vision (2001)

Here's an answer by Ian Masters in the May 2001 issue of Sound & Vision, page 36 Q&A.
Note: I saw no speaker wire advertisements in this issue!

"Cheap Wire
Q. Would it be okay for me to use single conductor wire as speaker cables running through the attic or under the house? Does stranded wire provide some sonic benefit? It would be far cheaper and easier for me to run 12-gauge wire to a plate with banana receptacles and then use specialty cable at each end to patch to the amplifier and speakers. Jon Schwendig, Santa Clara, CA

A. There are a lot of myths about speaker wires, but in the end it's thickness that counts, and 12 gauge should be heavy enough for any reasonable domestic application. I've taken several comparative listening sessions over the years, and the sort of wire you want to use involves no sonic degradation that I (or anybody else in the tests) could hear. You could even wire the whole distance from amp to speakers using 12-gauge, but it would probably be more convenient to use something more flexible for the actual connection to components. Specialty audiophile cables would serve that purpose nicely, although more modest cables would work just as well."

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A 6-page article by Laurence Greenhill titled "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?" was published in Stereo Review magazine on August 1983. It compared Monster cable, 16-gauge wire and 24-gauge wire.

Two points I would like to make :

1. Stereo Review: IMHO, that was a wishy washy mag, that said all equipment was goody good. I NEVER Recall reading a SINGLE critical review in that magazine.

Each manufacturer could just as well have written his own review.

Infact, I did not shed a tear when that magazine closed down.

At the same time that Stereo Review was writing its bit, another American Magazine, Audio published a 2 part article on the differences in Capacitor performance and sound. It was backed by Objective data, impedence curves etc. That series of articles was written by Walter Jung.

2. Being able to hear subtle differences, Needs not only an open & Critical, questioning attitude, but also sufficient resolution in the equipment, to show up the difference.

I believe that the average equipment 25 years ago ( when the review was written ) was not as revealing to the best available today.

Hence differences were less likely to show up 25 years ago.

There are other factors as well. If you listen to the system with the old wires and then replace them with the new ones, it could take 5 or 10 minutes to do this. By then you will have forgotten what the old sound was like.

Frankly, if I was happy going back to ANY cheaper hardware, after a 5 minute break.... I would not buy the new, more expensive hardware, for its sound.

Amp_Nut schrieb:

I believe that the average equipment 25 years ago ( when the review was written ) was not as revealing to the best available today. Hence differences were less likely to show up 25 years ago.

I would thoroughly agree with you sir ! ,thats what i feel too..
I believe that audiophiles were obsessed with musicality and the emotion of audio than measurements and neutrality that we all fall into these days

There are a lot of myths about speaker wires, but in the end it's thickness that counts, and 12 gauge should be heavy enough for any reasonable domestic application.

Personally, I believe that this is an Oft repeated falacy....

There are MANY different factors that affect the sound that an amplifier puts into a speaker, and the Resistance is just ONE of those factors.

Lower resistance does NOT necessarily mean better sound in practice.

NAIM used ( still uses ? ) a series resitor at its output of 0.22 Ohms. This is more resistance than even a 5 feet run of cheap, THIN wire...

And Naim amps were praised for their Taut and rhythemic sound.

( Reasons given to justify the resistor's presence include "isolation" of the Output stage from the speakers, reducing the speaker Back emf on the output stage and the feedback loop, to the skeptics saying that the Naim amp was simply unstable, and would blow witout the resistor ! )


Speaker Impedence ( ie its 'resitance' at different frequencies ) is atleast if not more important than wire resistance.

The Impedence will depend on whether single or multi strand cables are used, and whether the strands are insulated from each other.

'Skin Effect' begins to kick in at high frequencies, which causes current crowding at small radius of curvature due to thin cable strands, etc etc...

There ARE TONS of technical facts and justification, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating ....

If you DONT hear a difference, and dont care.... stay happy.

If you DO hear a difference and you want to follow the path of improvement, then you are DAMMED to be an audiophile. Suffer and Enjoy !

also ...stuff like capacitance/inductance of the cable may contribute to sound quality and the uniformity of dilectric used and sheilding.

A few manufacturers pride themselves in finding the right balance between capacitance/inductance for superior performance. Secondly high capacitance cables are said to make the output stage of the amp to oscillate and hence spell trouble. Thats one of the reasons some people do not advise the use of catV cables as speaker wire....


manek.