Are my ears deceiving me?

Congrats Shahrukh, you have good ears,which means you are right.
The CD layer in the hybrid disc is tampered with during mastering,to make the SACD layer sound better,which itself is crap anyways.As I said, good ears my friend, rock on.
Regards

Are you sure? That sounds like a rather stupid marketing gimmick in this day and age! And the difference is rather apparent too.

Dear Shahrukh you are a really perceptive guy,yes, marketing gimmick spot on.The patent holders Sony and Philips used to get royalty on every CD sold for 25 years as per Ptent agreement with them.When this period came toward its end, they were going to lose out a chunk of earnings, hence DSD technology with a hybrid CD layer to continue cashing in with a newer patent on all current music titles too.
But music companies have bigger issues than so called higher rez format, the issue is called piracy.Why should a music company pay for a higher rez when it can't stop piracy is their main arguement.Hence lack of support from major software(non audiophile) firms,is the reason why SACD and DVD-A are still struggling.Hope that answers your query.
Regards

I does answer my query. But it's sad

Shahrukh schrieb:

I does answer my query. But it's sad :(

Don't be sad dude ,just enjoy your music, and purchase your software carefully i.e, read the performance and recording points in a hifi magazine, and then buy the music.At least that way you minimise the risks.
Regards

And to think there's so much hype about "Hybrid SACD" discs "that ALSO play on regular CD players". Tell me deaf, is this a universal truth? Am I the last to know about this evil? Or is the world at large still unaware of this?
Man, people should be informed about this before they go wasting their money. I mean I almost bought an SACD (Ray Charles) thinking I'm gonna enjoy listening to this on my CDP and preserving it for better times when I have my own SACD player. Thank God I heard the Red Book version.

Shahrukh schrieb:

And to think there's so much hype about "Hybrid SACD" discs "that ALSO play on regular CD players". Tell me deaf, is this a universal truth? Am I the last to know about this evil? Or is the world at large still unaware of this? Man, people should be informed about this before they go wasting their money. I mean I almost bought an SACD (Ray Charles) thinking I'm gonna enjoy listening to this on my CDP and preserving it for better times when I have my own SACD player. Thank God I heard the Red Book version.

Dear Shahrukh,
Only industry people are aware of this, and few fully wired audio idiots.Glad you saved your money.The ray of hope is that, CD is a great 2 channel format that has been fully exploited by very few audiophile firms, e.g XRCD, Reference Records,OPUS 3
Pope Music to name some,which means, bigger labels can do the same and are beginning the trend too.
Regards

I agree completely with you deaf.
I have been listening to the Sheffield labs (Drum tracks) test XRCD for a week now. Man, how much info is there on the disc and it sounds pretty analogue too. Fantastic recording on RBCD. It is very true that very few labels fully exploit the RBCD even now. There is no point in running after the new formats……..

square_wave schrieb:

I agree completely with you deaf. I have been listening to the Sheffield labs (Drum tracks) test XRCD for a week now. Man, how much info is there on the disc and it sounds pretty analogue too. Fantastic recording on RBCD. It is very true that very few labels fully exploit the RBCD even now. There is no point in running after the new formats……..

Awesome disk dude. .
To show you a great commercial disk,listen to Joe Satriani's live album Time Machine,and listen to it softly.I know it sounds weird that you should hear stuff like that softly, but give it a shot and you will attain nirvana.
Regards

I had a different experience altogether. I have a few SACDs and it felt better than an audio cd. richer and more enveloping or something to that effect. But the bottomline is it felt better. I couldn't do an apples for apples comparison since i don't have an ACD for the same SACD. I played them through my latest "flea market" acquisition, the NAD 522. So maybe the cdp is the weak link? I don't know!

Does anyone know where to get XRCD CD's in India ?

Ah! Even I had this exprience with Mark Knopfler Shangri-La dual layer SACD. I always thought the bass was too much and could not believe that Chuck Ainley could mess up :hail. I thought must be my setup or may be my perception. Never got achance to verify with an acd. Now with this thread the picture seems to be clear, should head to buy an acd

observer schrieb:

Ah! Even I had this exprience with Mark Knopfler Shangri-La dual layer SACD. I always thought the bass was too much and could not believe that Chuck Ainley could mess up :hail. I thought must be my setup or may be my perception. Never got achance to verify with an acd. Now with this thread the picture seems to be clear, should head to buy an acd :)

Pity I never saw only a CD release of this album,you are correct the bass is fat and bloated.
Regards

deaf schrieb:

Pity I never saw only a CD release of this album,you are correct the bass is fat and bloated. Regards

Are, you sure there was never a cd release? I think I had seen one at shopper's stop when the album was released.

jsa_ind schrieb:

Does anyone know where to get XRCD CD's in India ? :D

Yeah I'd really like to know. Planet M pretty much sucks here in Mumbai. They have everything except for what I want . I had to go all the way to Kolkata to get Van Morisson's Magic Time CD.

Deaf, the CD version of Shangri La is available rather freely here in Mumbai. Planet M, Phoenix Mills has a few copies.

Tell me, do XRCDs play on a regular CD player?

I have SACD and CD versions of Norah Jones...and definetly find the SACD sound to be far superior to the PCM version.

It's almost like the missing gaps in the sound are plugged (better resolution) and makes the sound more analogue...

Basically i do not agree SACD is bad...atleast technically. However, its commercial performance leaves a lot of questions..

My concluion is based on listening from Marantz SA 8400 SACD player. I also have a Pioneer 733 DVD/Universal player...and it definetely does not do justice to the SACD...as much as it does to DVD-A.

FYI...the MK shangrila CD version is available in Landmark, Blore...i had picked in up last month.

Cheers
Siva.

sivat schrieb:

I have SACD and CD versions of Norah Jones...and definetly find the SACD sound to be far superior to the PCM version. It's almost like the missing gaps in the sound are plugged (better resolution) and makes the sound more analogue... Basically i do not agree SACD is bad...atleast technically. However, its commercial performance leaves a lot of questions.. My concluion is based on listening from Marantz SA 8400 SACD player. I also have a Pioneer 733 DVD/Universal player...and it definetely does not do justice to the SACD...as much as it does to DVD-A. Siva.

OK, there seems to be some confusion here. My orginal thread spoke about the "normal CD" layer on Hybrid SACDs as compared to ACDs.
NOT SACDs/DVD-As in entirety.

My experience with Red Book layer of SACD has been more than satisfactory. I am having Audio CD and SACD of Dark side of moon, The PCM stereo of SACD is far better than the audio CD version, the SACD release is actually a new mix made from master tapes and is very different from the earlier CD release. To make the matter worse the LP's sound 100 times better than the digital ones.

Other SACD that I am having are the Police, Norah Jones and Pictures at Exhibition etc and they all sound better than ACD. I cannot comment on SACD layer because I dont have a SACD player and the ones I have listened to are universal players that cannot be compared to my stereo set up.

MK's Shangrila on ACD do have the bass guitar that booms a bit, the Indian version is slightly less bloating in bass compared to EU made ones but the EU version is more resolving and smoother over all.

[quote="Shahrukh"]
OK, there seems to be some confusion here. My orginal thread spoke about the "normal CD" layer on Hybrid SACDs as compared to ACDs.
NOT SACDs/DVD-As in entirety.

[/quote]

I was referring to an earlier comment that SACD is bad...so i was replying with my opinion. I was not actually referring to your statement. Sorry about the confusion.

Coming back to the "normal CD" layer of SACD, i do not share the same opinion as you. However, i'm not saying you've heard it wrong...but we have to be sure whether the problem is really the "format" or the DVD player. Remember, the transport plays an important role here...

I have the STING SACD (latest album) and the CD layer on it is on par or better than the CD version that i checked in the same system (using a SACD player).

I share Ani's feedback that - EU pressed CD's are better than Indian ones (I'm only talking about original CDs). If intrested people can drop by my place during weekends..and hear the difference themself. I think CD's like Dire Straight and Pink Floyd...are best bought pressed in US/EU...it makes a big difference. After all improvement in manufacturing process is the key principle behind the XRCD format. I'm sure this is going to kick a stormy discussion.... :-)


Cheers
Siva.

You know Siva, I agree with you on the US/EU pressed ACDs. Indian manufactured ones suck big time. I had a bad experience with PF's P.U.L.S.E!

I agree that transport plays an important role in the final output but, if the SACD PCM layer is better sounding (to you) than an ACD, shouldn't it sound better when played on the same player? As in "player remaining constant"??!!

My comparison is with Floyd's DSOTM and Ray Charles' Genius Loves Company. None of the Discs were Indian. Still, I prefered the sound of the ACDs. They were more dynamic. More involving.

Remember, I'm talking about the PCM layer on the SACD. NOT the hi-res stereo layer... that, my friend, was divine!

WHERE IN MUMBAI CAN I BUY XRCDs?

dude!..sharukh..please don't use caps as it is equivalent to shouting on Internet and is considered uncouth.

btw, why do u want XRCDs...there are hardly any titles availablein XRCDs and each costs over 1-1.5 k and u would need an XRCD player..
frankly, not worth the investment...at least not till i know for sure that i can get any album on XRCD and until the price drops to a reasonable amount.

Apologies to all for using Caps. I know what it means. I just didn't realise.

Benkenobi, as far as I know, you don't need a separate "XRCD player" to listen to them. Still, after reading your post I checked up on the JVC XRCD site and I quote:
"...unlike some other recent attempts to improve CD sound quality, no additional equipment or add on converter is necessary to fully realize the sonic benefits of the xrcd process." You can also check it out at http://www.xrcd.net/Shopping/about.asp

As for titles, you should take a look at some of these sites on the net. They have XRCD titles galore.

My turn to apologive....
Thanks for that..but still for me it doesn't warrant the premium that they demand..
and he goes on to say that theree is only one facility for manufacturing them...
if it were so good, wew would have seen many more record labels upgrading their procesess to accomodate the XRCD...
till then the XRCD is ruled out for me..
only when others get in will the price drop occur.
Cheers,
Sachi

and the fact thta they don't have a Neil Diamond XRCD is testament enough that there are not enough titles...unbelieveable ttaht they don't have even a single XRCD by Neil Diamond who is considered by most(and by me) to be the greatest solo artist ever.

guys...dont give up on XRCD's product before hearing them....I have a few xrcd's and they do sound superior to normal cd's...honestly. There is a lengthly procedure to make XRCD's and under very precise and controlled conditions, probably not easily standardised. Thats what makes them unique. The pricing is also high so you wont see very many labels on them. Do read the production diagram on the web site to get details. They usually use the original analogue master tapes, play them on emaculately restored original equipment on which the master was made and use that as the source to try and authentically capture the event as it was recorded.

good examples are "Charade", Andre Previn west side story, MJQ Concorde, Old classical recordings of Heifitz....quite delicious and worth my money.

Manek.

Dear Ben,

XRCD's are nothing but Red Book CD's produced to a higher standard compared to regular audio CD. The fact is that if you take enough care right from the studio master tape and all the equipments and process used downstream you will end up with better quality product, this is an universal truth !. JVC has come up with a system of standards and called it XRCD. If you notice, they are very choosy in releasing software on XRCD, reason may be commercial or lack of quality of original source. I am happy with their re-release of RCA Living Stereo series on XRCD, it is the nearest you can get to LP's and in many cases the only source of getting this late 50's stunning 3 track master taped classical music played by the great artists under the supervision of great conductors.

I too feel sad that 90% of music that I like to be available on XRCD are not there ! Regarding cost yes they are a bit stiff but it is comparable to international list price.

Manek, where did you get your copies from?
There's a Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms" XRCD available on the net. I'd give my right eye for it. Any idea where in Mumbai we can source good quality recordings from?

Prithvi of Absolute Sounds in Bangalore is the dealer for XRCD in India.

Dont know where in bombay one would be able to buy xrcd's. Some of mine were gifts from parents, brother, friends etc since they know I'm a bit crazy about audio and a few I bought from Mahendra Dave(Oceanic Sound) in Pune.

Manek.

Thatnks for that...maybe i'll ask my frind to get dwon a couple to try them out.
but will read a bit more about them before i decide.

Sharuk,

You can directly order the XRCD's from www.acousticsounds.com. Have a credit card you can buy any CD you want from the site. I have already got my hands on Dire Straits Brothers in Arms . Till now I havent had any bad experience with customs. I have bought around 4 -5 of them.

Best regards
Deepu

Tell me Deepug, how does the Brothers In Arms XRCD sound. Especially when the regular Red Book version is such an outstanding recording?

The XRCD of brothers in arms sounds more analogue with fantastic dynamic range and plenty of details unheard in the old cd. But mind you, this cd can sound very bright and loud in the wrong system. The old recording is very rolled off and warm in comparison.

Shahrukh

I dont have the normal CD to compare. But when compared to the other CD's I have the XRCD sounds fantastic

Best regards
Deepu

Shahrukh

Also dont know whether it's a coincidence or what my 3 1/2 year old kid almost always selects this particular CD and asks me to play that

Best Regards
Deepu

They say you've already got a hit if a kid starts singing the song you've just composed. There is something about "good music" that appeals to kids. They have better "ears" than some of the most highly regarded audiophiles out there. Guess your son can recognize an appealing rcording when he hears one.

deepug schrieb:

Sharuk, You can directly order the XRCD's from www.acousticsounds.com. Have a credit card you can buy any CD you want from the site. I have already got my hands on Dire Straits Brothers in Arms . Till now I havent had any bad experience with customs. I have bought around 4 -5 of them. Best regards Deepu

Hey Deepug,
Tell me, can get stuffs from this site to be shipped to India ? I am planning to get a Headphone from this site. Is it possible ? I am at Bangalore right now. What will be the shipping charges. The headphone is around $60.

Abhi,

I think so. I have got close to 6 CD's in a single shipment. Till now no problems with Customs or delivery. However when you order you will be taking a chance. Always have this in mind. Charge will be depending on the size of the package ,weight and shipping priority. But it should not be much. Once you checkout the order they will indicate the shipping charge.

Also if you want you can directly contact them with your email id . Navigate to Help-->Customer Service --> Shipping methods & Rates --> End of the Document you will find "Submit your questions or comments for us by using this form" . They will reply to you promptly.

Hope this helps

Best regards
Deepu

Deepug,
Normally how many days it takes for the goods to reach us ??
How much did you pay for the shipping ??
Is it risky to get the headphone via this route ?

Abhi

Depends on the shipping priority. I got by FEDEX in 6 days. You can track your shipment also. Dont remeber the shipping charge will PM you tomorrow. Always there will be a risk.

Best regards
Deepu

hi abhi,
if u are planning for a senheiser headphone,
yu can try calling or mailing the delhi importer-

he stocks the complete range-
r
anirvan