TUBES

Ampnut

Good point. One sometimes tends to forget that the chasis work costs quite a bit which in cases like the cdp also translates into better sonics if implemented right

Many advantages to a good strong well designed chasis for amps as well.

Many people do take the chasis for granted and may not put much weight when judging equipment prices

Manek

A question for u tube guru's again.....

What would your selection criteria be for a tube rectifier in the various types of tube amps ?

Manek

Hi

Sure, that's been the bane of high end audio - over engineering, especially the chassis. You can make it as heavy and flashy and expensive as you want. It makes for good photographs and marketing brochures and equipment prices. Beyond a point, it serves no purpose to the music.

I've seen enough high end gear where the circuitry, and components, were pathetic for the price. Outside, it looked gorgeous!

Manek,

The largest common valve rectifiers can put out 250mA DC. For less current, there are numerous valve rectifiers available. You can't run them at maximum, because you need some headroom for current swings. So, if your circuit demand is within that, do use them. They provide another level of warmth and detail to music.

Viren

Manek schrieb:

Another thing that people have been using with vacuum tubes are amorphous core transformers. Why and how are they better for audio than the standard ones ? Manek

high permiability of good core, enables you to achive good level of inductance with lower number of coil windings, hence giving a lot of advantages...like lower coil resistance and capacitance, etc.,

Manek schrieb:

Ampnut Good point. One sometimes tends to forget that the chasis work costs quite a bit which in cases like the cdp also translates into better sonics if implemented right Many advantages to a good strong well designed chasis for amps as well. Many people do take the chasis for granted and may not put much weight when judging equipment prices Manek

Chassis are expensive, not necessarily for the looks, but for the required mechanial isolation. This does affects the sound. Good well built chassis are significantly "more" expensive for DIY'ers, because of lower Qty !!. The DIY'er in India do have thier advantage with thier friendly neighbourhood workshop...but still more expensive than making 1000 pieces of the same chassis.

Chassis is not just important for CDP, but also for all electornics, expecically a power amp.

Manek schrieb:

A question for u tube guru's again..... What would your selection criteria be for a tube rectifier in the various types of tube amps ? Manek

I'm not tube guru and hence the Q is not for me...but i still thought i will share my experience.

I feel, tubes in a PSU (on B+) makes the sound...called famously "tubey". I 've tried different tubes.

For a more linear sound, the solid state diodes do hold thier advantages. There are many many choices available, but u need to buy them from abroad...or thru RS component. Schottky diodes are a must for filament PSU and if possible for B+ as well !!. These is expensive though !!

Viren...let me try and explain.....maybe I didn't explain better earlier...

Besides the current draw...why would you use one rectifier tube over another, given that both allow for the swings in a circuit ? Have you managed to attribute certain audio qualities to certain rectifier tubes ? Secondly would you use a certain tube rectifier with certain preamp tubes based on audio characteristics ? We have seen that tube rectifiers do make a difference in the sound quality and characteristics hence the question.

Siva, yes I know you prefer the ss diodes. My other pre has solid state rectification and upgraded fast diodes and both have 6sn7's. But I do love the option of tweaking virens amp given the choice that I can swap out the rectifier and make sets of output tube + rectifier that gels best with each other.

Manek

Viren

I found that when one
puts 4 solid aluminium pieces under/instead of the rubber feet of the lyrita preamp, the difference is very palpable in the reproduction of cymbals, chokes, brushes and the tom tom drums.

What I did was put 4 large circular volume control knobs made of aluminium under the rubber feet. You should try it if you haven't already that is :-). All of rs 160 only.

Looking to replace them with brass but that will take some searching.....no I won't go with the very expensive tip-toes just yet :-)

Manek

Hi Manek,

Damping vibrations to and from components is again a very subjective thing. It is so dependent on the setup, that there are almost no rules, and its all by trial. The nature of your rack, the shelf the component sits on, the sound intensity in that corner, all play a part. I'm sure you heard what you did - play around with what sounds best.

The same holds while changing rectifier valves. As long as they are somewhat equivalent (check pinout!), you can substitute them, and they definitely sound different. Play around with what sounds best to you. And, my experience is different from Siva's. I feel valve rectifiers, over ss diodes, take the valve amp to richer level of tonality.

Viren

Hi,

Amp Nut's comment:

"The expensive MOST 'component' in an integrated amp or a Pre amp or power amplifier is the ......

Nope ! Not the Transformer, or the tubes but the chasis !"

got me curious as to my 2A3 SET amp. No doubt my valve amps are very iron hungry, and here's the tally:

Lyrita 2A3 SET, iron to chassis ratio 2.8

Viren

viren schrieb:

I feel valve rectifiers, over ss diodes, take the valve amp to richer level of tonality. Viren

That's exactly why i avoid tubes in PSU

Viren said:

Amp_Nut said: Nope ! Not the Transformer, or the tubes but the chasis !" got me curious as to my 2A3 SET amp. No doubt my valve amps are very iron hungry, and here's the tally: Lyrita 2A3 SET, iron to chassis ratio 2.8

Congrats ! Viren. As an audiophile I salute you

I guess your focus away from the chasis would have cost you sales ?

I recall my talk with (probably ? ) the most sucessful AV retailer in the country ( and an ACE Pair of Ears ) ... he said that though he loves interacting with Audiophiles, they ( we ! ) analyse the matters to death, and rarely buy.

I guess that Audiophiles are like Film critics. Its Great to have their approval, but it rarely puts food on the table....

Power to you, Viren for bringing GREAT audio quality at a Very Reasonable ( Throwaway by audio standards )

I recently heard your Rs 15,000 Pre Amp and I was Very Appreciative of what you offer for Rs 15K.

Viren

Hi. About damping vibrations and resonances....I observed the same behavior with my other setup. It tamed my bass boom by 70 percent ! So the same effect in two setups completely different and spread across two different cities !

So maybe I have stumbled upon some cheap yet effective dampers. Mind you it works best in combination with the stock rubber feet. Using them directly on the chasis works to about 80 percent of what it would with the rubber feet. So maybe I am thinking that just one material may not do the trick all the time but a combination of damping materials would be better to work with different types of resonances.

Anyone know of a more scientic way of guaging the various resonances in the equipment we use ? Rather than just trial and error ?

Manek

Manek schrieb:

... Rather than just trial and error ?

Trial and error is the most scientific way when tubes are involded.

Off track, but so much tubes discusssion makes me melancholy

How about starting another "last one" tube amp project? Anything to beat the recession blues.

Aks

What did ypu have in mind ?

Manek

Manek schrieb:

Aks What did ypu have in mind ? Manek

How about a SET amp?

Throw up some ideas.

How about a Solid State SET Transformer coupled amplifier ?

Can be made Very Cheap and quick.

Had made one in my college days... that was ofcourse a "romantic era" for my Audio days.

Sounded Great ( Then )

If I am not mistaken, the Rethym speakers were demoed at the Hyatt show in Mumbai ( approx 5 years ago ) with a 10 Watt Transformer coupled Solid State Amp.

Prithvi, is that correct ?

( SORRY ! I know .... this is a TUBE Thread! )

Any other brands doing that besides rethm ?


Aks how about the tubes you mentioned on this thread ? The ones you wanted to use ?

Manek

If it is a SET, then esteemed forum members like Shri Viren and Shri Sivat have explored the both the ends of the power range. Viren ji with 2A3 and Sivat-ji with 845 SET. Why not something mid power? Like a 300B SET in the 8~10 WPC range?

Hmmm.....

10 watts is pretty decent to begin with.

You have my vote.

Manek

About 9 WPC shoul be a good compromise keeping in view the harmonic distortion and conserving tube life.

Do you think this warrants a new thread out in the DIY section?

Hi aks,

Go for it! in DIY!

Viren

viren schrieb:

Hi aks, Go for it! in DIY! Viren

Thanks ! Thread at DIY section started

Viren

I did get my hands on 4 brass conical cabinet handles with flat bases :-)

What can I say, they do a shade better than the aluminum circular knobs :-)

Sasta, kifaayti, tikaaoo tweak.

Manek

Manek schrieb:

I did get my hands on 4 brass conical cabinet handles with flat bases :-)

Fantastic Sir ! this is the true spirit of tweaking. do try to put a dab of blutqac either at the component level or at the surface to rprevent any vibration !

Tks arj

Now to do the same with the source and hear the difference.

Once we finish the feet, then we shall do the blu tac thingie to the source first and then the pre.

Manek

Just replaced the stock Sovtek 6l6GCs in my amp with Svetlana SED 6L6GCs. what a change in sound ! the hardness and edge in the midrange/treble has just gone away..
.
My first experience with Tube rolling and its been fantastic !

Welcome to the club. Enjoy yr tubes. You have now been officially bitten by the bug !

Keep the sovteks as a spare set.

Yes good tubes do make a lot of difference. These are current production right ?

Arj, now you should go for a good set of matched NOS if you can after a few months. Those should take your amp a notch higher. Be careful about the source of the tubes.

Manek

Manek,

the advise on the Sovteksas a backup is practical and wise !
I have been trying to ask around about the 6L6/KT66 family. as per what i cold learn , this is one family where most of the good ones available are as good as NOS apparently . The leben does have the option of using EL34s as well..any favourites/ recomendations on those ?

think i have the source/amp/speaker thing sorted out by now and really need to focus on the room now..and the software as well

any innovative ways of storing CDs ? does anyone store them by removing them from the Jewel cases and using alternative storage ?

Arj sir....pardon my going on about this but if your amp has preamp tubes, those would now be up for the same switch if you haven't upgraded them yet :-)

On el34's, mullards, amperex, telefunken, ei(maybe)

Groove have good sounding el34's I am told out of the present lot. The svetlana and jj should have decent sounding ones too.

On cd storage I am myself looking for alternative means but I doubt if I want to get rid of jewel cases. There are electro mechanical libraries available which store cds and bring them out once you click on the index like a jubebox. This one won't do for me.

Hey ! Hold on a minute ! How about an audiophile quality jukebox ? :-) hee hee, sorry arj but I'm just trying to humour myself, have a nasty cold and have been quite cranky since morning.

Manek

Manek schrieb:

Arj sir....pardon my going on about this but if your amp has preamp tubes, those would now be up for the same switch if you haven't upgraded them yet :-)

The amp comes with a Quad of NOS Sylvania 6CS7. what i was told was that the impact of changing this is very subtle, unlike the power tubes. might be on the lookout for a Tung Sol or a GE at some point

Manek schrieb:

On cd storage I am myself looking for alternative means but I doubt if I want to get rid of jewel cases. There are electro mechanical libraries available which store cds and bring them out once you click on the index like a jubebox. This one won't do for me. Hey ! Hold on a minute ! How about an audiophile quality jukebox ? :-) hee hee, sorry arj but I'm just trying to humour myself, have a nasty cold and have been quite cranky since morning. Manek

well the best audiophile Jukebox is a digital HDD source you just need to rip them !

i have bee thinking of looking for some sort of wall hanging storage that uses Sleeves in which the covers and Liners could also be included.

http://www.vacuumtube.com/faq1.htm

another of those tube info links.

Manek

Thanks manek, this is a nice link with lots of good info !

welcome to the gang arj! good to hear of another member enjoying tube rolling. yes you're right. changing the preamp tube would have a less discernable effect than the power tubes. changing the rectifier tube in my amp made a BIG difference. i wouldn't say better just different. so depending on my mood i can use the gz34 or the 5y4G. the 5y4g is more spaced out, relaxed. the gz34 is more compact punchier sounding. fav is the 5y4g though. do you have rectifier tubes in your amp?

Hey stevieboy.

I seriously dont want to get into tube rolling..it is scarier than cable swaps wince the changes are not as subtle ( )
From what I could understand, the Lebens rectification is via Diodes,not tube rectified. Apparently this was to avoid any Euphony in the sound .There is a 6CJ3 "Dumper tube" to avoid sudden loads on the Output tubes..not sure if changing that has any impact since it is not really rectifying , but only "loading" the main output in order to prolong the life.?

The tube vendor in SJP road called me last week ...and told me that he had some KT88 ...@ Rs.2k per piece.

His tubes are not very reliable...mostly military junk. Incase any of you might be intrested....walk along SJP road...u will find the shop with tubes displayed.

thanks for the tip siva! will take a walk on the tube side one free weekend!

arj, yeah experienced the same not so obvious changes in my input tubes. had two pairs in my previous amp but no noteworthy changes (at least changes i could notice and appreciate). viren did warn me there'd be hardly any change but being my first tube amp i just had to see and have fun. rectifier tube swap was a whole different ballgame. research 'the' power tube to have and start saving hehe. havent yet tried a 2A3 change since the better single plate alternatives will cost as much as my amp itself!!!

stevieboy schrieb:

research 'the' power tube to have and start saving hehe.

I did just that..got in touch wih multiple folks using the amp before zeroing down on this one:) the best next upgrade is a Western Electric 350Bs..think that costs $1000+

have another option of using Golden Lion KT77s as well. but let me wait for the itch to try it get real bad !

Good thinking arj

Time like these are not too conducive to large scale experimentation.

Manek

on the contrary manek, times like these are perfect for those grand dreams keeps you going you know what i mean?

arj ah that's the ultimate biggie i wanted to know. all tube amps have one utterly unaffordble or out of reach or save-up-for-many-years tube will check out the we 350Bs. maybe i'll invite myself over one day to listen to your amp and speakers?

Anytime Dude ! please bring some music also over.

YOu can also help me in evaluating my HDD based sound

HDD??? you've moved beyond the reimyo? ok maybe we can discuss this when i do drop in or it'll go off topic.

no no..have a PC connected to the reimyo

guys

jj the tube manufacturer has started to make valve amps too under its name.....anyone heard them ?

manek.

Would be grateful if someone could point me to any specific shop selling tubes at SP road ?
looking specifically for a nice Quad of KT66/KT77/KT88 OR some nice 6CJ3 or 6CM3.

No mention of the 6CG7/6FQ7 family? isn't anyone running these tubes?

Arj

Be3 amplifiers in vashi near mumbai could help you. I remember him telling me he was going to sell current prod sets. Plus he also has a tube tester on which he can test them.

Manek

Sachi

I doubt anyone is running these.

Just two possibilities though, viren or aks may have played around with them.

Manek

Manek schrieb:

Arj Be3 amplifiers in vashi near mumbai could help you. I remember him telling me he was going to sell current prod sets. Plus he also has a tube tester on which he can test them. Manek

Hey manek, i havce sourced some from Mohammad of Be3, wanted some cheap local tubes to try out..thats all