Japanese Pressings : Whats the magic ?

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Autor
Beitrag
abhi.pani
Inventar
#1 erstellt: 28. Feb 2010, 10:31
Folks,
I am pretty excited about this topic.
In the last few months I have been able to acquire some Japanese pressings of my favorite albums. Most of these albums I already have, and they are all good "import" pressings either from Holland, Germany, UK or other European countries. I also have some US pressings which were also pretty nice.
However, my visit to Spore couple of months back got me into buying a few Japanese pressings. In fact in Spore there are these CD shops which specialize in stocking high quality audiophile pressings. And there too, they had a section entirely dedicated to Japanese pressings. And when you ask for an album or an artist the very first thing they do is look for the Japanese section. Thats how I got my first two CDs pressed in Japan. Thereafter I got a few more from ebay.

So, whats so special about these pressings ? Well, I am extremely amazed at the way these CDs sound. To start with they almost make you forget you are listening to anything "digital"...that word which is also a taboo in our hobby is no more there. I have little experience with vinyls so I do not want to start a direct comparison of these CDs to Vinyls. However it would be easy for me to express myself if I bring Vinyls into picture. Almost every audio forum out there is littered with posts either comparing analog versus digital playback or trying to find out the most analog sounding CDP/DAC. While no one questions the superiority of Vinyls over CDs because of well known reasons but a majority of the hobbyists are worried why CDs have a sound of its own, why cant they just sound like a stripped down version of LP...basically retaining similar levels of truth, honesty and realism to music reproduction ?
But after listening to these basic vanilla flavor Japanese pressed CDs I am more than convinced that CD is a superb medium . It has every ability to convey the realism, impact, depth, weight and honesty of top quality music reproduction without sounding a wee bit artificial .
And they do not achieve this feat by coloring the sound at all. There is absolutely no rolling off of highs, no extra emphasis on mids or rounding off of bass...typically these are few shortcuts manufacturers (of equipments and CDs) use to give a feel of smoother more analog sound...but then they are easily caught in decent hi-rez system.
Instead the Japanese take a different route all together, every little thing is taken care off without compromising any other aspects. Tonally they are totally in a different planet compared to any other pressings I have heard.
The kind of weight each and every instrument carries has to be heard, bass has such variations and textures that even on a basic PC speaker it cannot sound "one note". You no longer wonder whether it is a stick or a brush hitting the Kettle drum, rather you start hearing the different textures of the skin used on two different drums !!!! Its almost like you are there...right there. Voices are so much more in flesh and blood, you suddenly know that this is a real human singing and the other guy whom you thought real was so electronic in comparison. High frequencies are just so fluid and correct now, they no more ring or shine all the time, they just blend in the music as if they are one. The same instruments now play for much longer with the trailing edges which decay for as long as one wants to hear them, all this within the same 5 mins of the song. Timing, Rhythm, Speed everything is just so correct.

Most interestingly these are just plain Vanilla flavored CDs of some popular not very well recorded music. To name a few:

Dire Straits
Tracy Chapman,
Pink Floyd,
Fleetwood Mac

Nothing audiophile about these albums or their recordings but its the mastering and pressing where the Japanese have created the magic .
Unfortunately many so called "audiophile" labels like MoFi, XRCD (which also incidentally is from Japan), Telarc etc have sounded rather ordinary and sometimes even highly cooked to me in comparison. Its clear that there is something they are not doing correctly at the very fundamental level.

I do not know who is the star here...is it the mastering studios in Japan which have such equipments that every CD coming out of it is in a class apart ? Or is that the mastering engineers get some special kind of training which other guys around the world miss. They just seem to know and do things which no one else in the world knows.
I would not mind rebuilding my favorite collection all from scratch from here even though its gonna be expensive and time consuming.

I would love to know what others think on this topic.


[Beitrag von abhi.pani am 28. Feb 2010, 11:26 bearbeitet]
bhagwan69
Inventar
#2 erstellt: 28. Feb 2010, 15:09


focus
dedication
attention to detail
quality / quality @ all cost...

Manek
Inventar
#3 erstellt: 28. Feb 2010, 16:00
Abhi the secret of the magic is in two parts:

1) Written in your post "every detail is looked into"

2) Everything that bhagwan said.


Let me tell you this....in the good old cassette days, japanese cassetes were also top class.
Reproduction quality was awesome. I remember having a few like eagles, dobbie brothers, smokie, donna summer, diana ross, big band music etc....and they were gr8. What was special about them was that all of them came with lyric sheets.

I am sure vinyls must be as good.

Manek
abhi.pani
Inventar
#4 erstellt: 28. Feb 2010, 16:35
And its not done anywhere else in the world
No one even tries to learn
audio_engr
Ist häufiger hier
#5 erstellt: 28. Feb 2010, 18:56

bhagwan69 schrieb:
:hail

focus
dedication
attention to detail
quality / quality @ all cost...

:hail


agree 100% !!


--painstakingly practically handmade setup of the mastering chain.
--The meticulous attention from the start of the project till the end.
--finally, cost NOT being any issue.
bhagwan69
Inventar
#6 erstellt: 28. Feb 2010, 19:58

abhi.pani schrieb:
And its not done anywhere else in the world
No one even tries to learn :(


All record companies have the expertise;
All can do a job just like Japan can;
However, the main differance is that the purchasing public in Japan understands quality & appreciates it. They demand it, so the record company rises to the occasion.

In India we want Tips & the likes - cost is all that matters to us, hence the recording & the mastering is of that level and quality.

We need to change - ask for more - we will get it.

Simple...

bhagwan69
Inventar
#7 erstellt: 28. Feb 2010, 20:03
See :-
Ma Record
Tacet
Fone
Channel Classics
Stockfish Records
etc. etc.

These will all record superb;
Their clients 'demand' it - are ready to pay for it - the recording is 'kadak' [superb] !

In Japan the name of the game is 'quality' & that is the only parameter - no other will do - so all the companies work towards that & the result is for all of us to see...
Manek
Inventar
#8 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2010, 06:29
Bhagwan

This is what I see.....

We demand quality at times but don't want to pay a
commensurate/fair price for it.
Secondly good quality stuff is also many times
excruciatingly expensive, far more than what it should cost.
Hence people tend, to go for/make do with, the cheap stuff.

do you guys think its a fair price to pay for the ordinay japanese pressings ?
And what price are they available for ?

Manek
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#9 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2010, 08:28
Hi Abhi,

Interesting topic. I am hoping to learn more on this issue.

First of all let me confess that I know next to NOTHING about Jap Pressings / recordinds.

1. My ONLY exposure to Jap pressings are the XRCDs.

Initially I was VERY enthused by them, but as my system improved, I realised that XRCDs were probably Hyped up recordinds that present themselves VERY well in A- systems, but on true audiophile systems, they distinctly exhibit the hype.

2. Countries too have their preferred sound, and IMHO eher is a distinct difference in the way an American or UK system sounds.

Room sizes and construction material ( American homes are generally larger and made of wood ) influence the 'Country's Sound.'

I suspect that Jap houses, with their tiny dimensions, probably prefer bookshelf speakers, most of which present little info below 50 Hz. Could the Jap pressings be optimised for such playback.. with a focus on mid bass + Mid and Upper audio spectrum ?
Arj
Inventar
#10 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2010, 09:05
Hi AN, i share you opinion on XRCD's they appear cooked to the extent of artificiality..all in the name of "Resolution"

the regular jap recordings by Denon etc are different. they have a kind of Smoothness and sophistication. eg I have an Eagles recording which gives a better feeling of enjoyment of music compared to the resolution/extended frequency and black background that an XRCD may give you..if you get my drift.
abhi.pani
Inventar
#11 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2010, 10:21

All record companies have the expertise;
All can do a job just like Japan can;
However, the main differance is that the purchasing public in Japan understands quality & appreciates it. They demand it, so the record company rises to the occasion.

In India we want Tips & the likes - cost is all that matters to us, hence the recording & the mastering is of that level and quality.

We need to change - ask for more - we will get it.



We demand quality at times but don't want to pay a
commensurate/fair price for it.
Secondly good quality stuff is also many times
excruciatingly expensive, far more than what it should cost.
Hence people tend, to go for/make do with, the cheap stuff.


First things first...Audio CDs never caught up in India . The transition was/is from Cassettes to mp3. Apart from the metros and some A-tier cities finding a CD Shop in any other part of the country can be very frustrating. Hence demand for high quality Audio CD is a joke .



Hi Abhi,

Interesting topic. I am hoping to learn more on this issue.

First of all let me confess that I know next to NOTHING about Jap Pressings / recordinds.

1. My ONLY exposure to Jap pressings are the XRCDs.

Initially I was VERY enthused by them, but as my system improved, I realised that XRCDs were probably Hyped up recordinds that present themselves VERY well in A- systems, but on true audiophile systems, they distinctly exhibit the hype.

2. Countries too have their preferred sound, and IMHO eher is a distinct difference in the way an American or UK system sounds.

Room sizes and construction material ( American homes are generally larger and made of wood ) influence the 'Country's Sound.'

I suspect that Jap houses, with their tiny dimensions, probably prefer bookshelf speakers, most of which present little info below 50 Hz. Could the Jap pressings be optimised for such playback.. with a focus on mid bass + Mid and Upper audio spectrum ?


Hi Amp_Nut,
In my first post I mentioned that some so called audiophile labels sound a bit too overcooked to me and I was hinting towards XRCD. You may find some good examples of XRCD as well but more or less they are highly overcooked and over-spiced versions which I think as you have pointed out is targetted to the American market.
If you listen to the Vanilla flavor of these Japs pressings you would be pleasantly surprised they are exactly the opposite of XRCD like stuff.

You might be right that every country has a preferred sound which is more or less based on their homes. But then, is it just a coincidence that Japanese pressings sound so much more real than same version pressed in other countries . At least I did not find a lift in the mid bass compared to the German pressing, instead I found a more defined mid bass which actually enables me to hear deeper into the low bass . The German pressing sounds one note in comparison.


[Beitrag von abhi.pani am 01. Mrz 2010, 11:12 bearbeitet]
bhagwan69
Inventar
#12 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2010, 14:47
Abhi - your listening has matured - I am happy.
You are 'listening' !
I am truly delighted....
Please do continue - there is so much to explore & learn.
You are on the right track. I am happy for you..

How I wush you come to Mumbai now. There is so much I can share with you & learn from you too.
Do take out the time - it would be great to host you here..
abhi.pani
Inventar
#13 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2010, 15:19
Thank you for the invite Bhagwan, this is the Nth time you are calling me over but I have not yet been able to make it . This year, I sure will make it to Mumbai .
Arj
Inventar
#14 erstellt: 01. Mrz 2010, 19:25

audio_engr schrieb:

bhagwan69 schrieb:
:hail

focus
dedication
attention to detail
quality / quality @ all cost...

:hail


agree 100% !!


--painstakingly practically handmade setup of the mastering chain.
--The meticulous attention from the start of the project till the end.
--finally, cost NOT being any issue.



agree with both of your summary..it is very cultural in Anything they do.
Although it is by pure accident that today my transport, DAC, Amp , digital cable, speaker cable are all japanese either by manufacturer or by designer


[Beitrag von Arj am 01. Mrz 2010, 19:27 bearbeitet]
ani
Stammgast
#15 erstellt: 02. Mrz 2010, 09:36
Hi
Very intersting topic. I have few doubts regarding the term "Japanese pressing".

1. By Japanese pressing do you mean CD stamped in japan from european or USA Masters ?

2. If pressed from same master the difference we hear should be limited that quality of CD manufacturing. Just like what we get from our Indian CD makers.

3. LP's and CD's recorded and mastered by Japanese are very much different from EU and US.

4. XRCD's are remastered (cooked) from Original tape by Japanese or to Japanese flavour.

Japanese LP's even the regular ones are very quiet, very few tics and pops and worse will be US pressings from 70's.
abhi.pani
Inventar
#16 erstellt: 02. Mrz 2010, 11:31
Hi Ani,
I have come across two types of labels:
Made in Japan and Printed in Japan. I am not sure if they are the same or different. But they both sounded wonderful.
I do share your curiosity as well .
Arj
Inventar
#17 erstellt: 02. Mrz 2010, 13:50
From what I inderstand for CDs the pressing has 4 transfers in Data

1. CD Father which is a negative to the final disc and made from the master and usually made of Metal like Nickel (The Master is always Glass)

2. CD Mother made from the father and made of metal again (I think 4 mothers from a father).these are replicas of the final cd

3. CD Stampers or Sons whic are again -ves of the final cds (or identical to the father)

4. each Stamper is injected with polycarbonate to make the CDs.

so i guess if due diligence is not observed at each of the above stages in terms of time/material quality and quality of equipment, you can lose a little bit in each step !

i think mostly the Redbook master is very limited but each country pressing starts with the creation of the Father to the stamping. and that too makes a Huge difference in the quality


Abhi/Sq wave and I heard an American and German pressing of a CD and there was Palpable difference..just wish there was a japanese pressing as well..


[Beitrag von Arj am 02. Mrz 2010, 13:52 bearbeitet]
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#18 erstellt: 02. Mrz 2010, 14:30
Hi Arj,

Thanks for as very informative post.

can you post some more info on the CD process or provide a link ?

Thanks
Arj
Inventar
#19 erstellt: 02. Mrz 2010, 17:29
sivat
Stammgast
#20 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 06:47
There are lots of us who belive computer is good enough and a transport does not make a difference.

On the other hand we say pressing of a CD is important ...

Is'nt this contradictory
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#21 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 08:44
Count me out of those that equate CD & HDD playback, for Sound Quality

However, even though I am from the 'Other side' my argument to your question is that better mastering and pressing will improve the quality of embedded bits of data, and therefore there is certainly scope (IMHO ! ) for certain CD pressings to sound better than others..

On The Other hand, I fail to see how a CDR can actually sound better than the original CD ( assuming that the original CD is in good condition). The CDR is quite a different animal altogether. It has a dye who's reflectivity is changed by a recording laser. In sharp contrast, the original CD has a metalised layer with holes in it, to represent the data. The metalised layer has FAR better Contrast between the 1s and 0s and also the MUCH higher overall reflectivity.

I therefore am perplexed how some reviewers have in the past claimed ( I see less or none of those claims now ! 0 that their CDR copies sound better than the original pressing.

I have done comparisons between the Original and the CDR, and to me, the original is CLEARLY superior, with less than 1 minute's listening.

Guys would appreciate yr opinions and feedback on this (CD vs CDR ), but ONLY if you have ACTUALLY tried this experiment... which should cost you less than Rs 10.
sivat
Stammgast
#22 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 09:12
Amp_Nut,

Mastering alone would not be the problem...... in some cases yes, the CD might have been manufactured with a different master.

But - for a moment -leave the cases of "different master" out of scope.

Take the US print and Indian print of any CD...mastering is the same...only the print is different.

If you belive that the equipment used to manufacture CD is important, then i fail to understand how one can assume the instrument that actually "reads" cannot be that very important.

Regards
Siva.
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#23 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 10:26
Siva,

Each CD pressed is like a Rubber Stamp impression.

If the Rubber Stamp itself is not pristine, the stamped image will be blurred, and therefore sound poor.

Siva Said:



If you belive that the equipment used to manufacture CD is important, then i fail to understand how one can assume the instrument that actually "reads" cannot be that very important.


I concur with you 100%, despite the the argument that EAC will do multiple reads for optimum recovery of the data.

Infact, recent reviews now seem to have stopped trumpeting that HDD playback is superior to the CD. They have shifted to saying that the Hi Res version ( usually 24bits / 96 KHz ) which can only be accessed from a HDD sounds superior to the CD (16 bits/ 44 KHz).

Are reviewers quietly backing off from their Over-The-Top initial Enthusiasm for HDD sound superiority, compared to CD playback ?
abhi.pani
Inventar
#24 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 11:52
I have spoken about this aspect with some of my software engineer friends who are also Audiophiles. One of them being ROC on our forum.

While there had been a lot of enthusiasm about EAC doing the exact bit perfect rip, slowly people have realized that its not the case.

When you rip through EAC, you are ultimately using a CD ROM drive to read the CD. The CD ROM drive is obviously not a very accurate tool but then there are error correction algorithms which fills in the missing/bad data that would have occurred due to the inaccuracies of the CD drive through approximation. It is this altered/approximated data that is finally fed to EAC to read and write to HDD "ACCURATELY".

Now, when people compare the EAC written data on the HDD to the data that was originally present on the CD, they again read the data from the CD using the same CD ROM drive which again does the exact same set of approximation as it did on the first pass while the data was getting ripped !!! So in the process all you are doing is comparing two inaccurate sets of data and if they match (which they obviously will), you are happy that you are hearing everything that was on the CD and there is no data loss or data corruption .
sivat
Stammgast
#25 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 12:01

Amp_Nut schrieb:


They have shifted to saying that the Hi Res version ( usually 24bits / 96 KHz ) which can only be accessed from a HDD sounds superior to the CD (16 bits/ 44 KHz).



Absolutely...WAV or FLAC or any other "Computer" formats derived directly from Masters will be far superior to any CD or SACD playback....Jitter is almost negligble.

This (HD's available for online download) is a totally different ball game though...which we will keep aside.
sivat
Stammgast
#26 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 12:05

abhi.pani schrieb:
I have spoken about this aspect with some of my software engineer friends who are also Audiophiles. One of them being ROC on our forum.

While there had been a lot of enthusiasm about EAC doing the exact bit perfect rip, slowly people have realized that its not the case.

When you rip through EAC, you are ultimately using a CD ROM drive to read the CD. The CD ROM drive is obviously not a very accurate tool but then there are error correction algorithms which fills in the missing/bad data that would have occurred due to the inaccuracies of the CD drive through approximation. It is this altered/approximated data that is finally fed to EAC to read and write to HDD "ACCURATELY".

Now, when people compare the EAC written data on the HDD to the data that was originally present on the CD, they again read the data from the CD using the same CD ROM drive which again does the exact same set of approximation as it did on the first pass while the data was getting ripped !!! So in the process all you are doing is comparing two inaccurate sets of data and if they match (which they obviously will), you are happy that you are hearing everything that was on the CD and there is no data loss or data corruption .



Abhi,

What is in the redbook is NOT "data". WAV and FLAC files are data.

PCM decoding is beyond the domain of a typial software engineers. So I will not take the advise of the software engineer in this matter ... sorry ... meant no offence :-)

What you are saying about inaccuracy is true...and yes CD-ROM drives are a problem. But the real problem is much larger....if you'll read one my earlier posts..

Regards
Siva.


[Beitrag von sivat am 08. Mrz 2010, 12:09 bearbeitet]
Manek
Inventar
#27 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 12:17
Ampnut

I have done original cd. vs cdr a few times. Gave a few originals away thinking I had an exact copy, I was wrong.


But I didn't find the original clearly superior to the cdr, just marginally so but enough for me to recognise it.


Interestingly I have found cdr quality to also makes a bit of differernce in the long run wherein good quality cdr's last longer. have had problems with the locally made consumer brand.


Manek
abhi.pani
Inventar
#28 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 12:39

sivat schrieb:

What you are saying about inaccuracy is true...and yes CD-ROM drives are a problem. But the real problem is much larger....if you'll read one my earlier posts..


The crux of my post was basically to point out the absolute over confidence people have on EAC ripped copies on their HDD and making bold claims that it is exactly the same as what is on the CD because it matches bit to bit (I suppose it should be word to word). But they forget to note that every time oyu read the CD through that CD rom, you incur the same set of data inaccuracies and thats why they are matching.

Amp_Nut,
Manek is right that the quality of CDR makes a huge difference at the end. I have some albums which I have copied on a Moser Baer CD (Rs.10) and on a Mitsui Gold Disc (Rs.120) and the difference is huge !!!
However I have not yet found the CDR to sound better than the original but then I use a very basic CD drive with Nero Software burning CDs at 4-8X speed. Some people do it more seriously with Plextor CD drives and using high quality Cd burning softwares which can burn at true 1X speeds. I suppose those softwares need to be bought. It takes about 2-3 hours to burn a 650 MB CD at true 1X speed. It is then that they claim it to be better than original.
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#29 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 12:55
Abhi,

I Had a Plextor CD ( NOT DVD ) writer, and I was less than thrilled with it.

1. I compared errors aon a Disk written by the Plextor, to that written with a Sony CD writer, and the sony was just Marginally better.

The Plextor died within 24 months. The Sony gave me good service for a further 2 years.

Writing a CD at 1x will take approx 72 minutes + 33 seconds ( + writing a 20 MB TOC - table Of Content) max.

iTunes gives me the option to write at 2x... though I have read that current writers are optimised for a 8x write speed.

I would not attribute that some unknown software / hardware will write a Super disc that is better than the original. Reviewers have stopped singing that tune, and that itself is damming evidence of Bull shit.

Regarding the much hyped Gold CDRs... I remain VERY Skeptical. Note that the dye used in CDRs, Gold or any other colour is the same. The Gold is MERELY a extra COSMETIC layer on the Polycarbonate substrate.

Gold was respected in PRESSED CDs ( NOT CDRs) because Gold does not tarnish, and less prone to laser Rot. Gold COLOURED CDRS are mere ...

Infact, IMHO, a better aspect to judge CDRs is to see that the CDR passes as little light THRU it as possible, so that the Laser light is reflected back to be read by the CD mech, or absorbed.

If you read the Liner notes included with every XRCD, you will observe that they discuss choosing the Aluminium layer rather than a Gold layer, because of the better reflectivity of the former.

Manek, when you come over, for a listen, do bring along yr fav CD and its CDR avaatar.

The CDR has all the notes, but lacks the air and ambience...

I stand by my 1 minute challange..


[Beitrag von Amp_Nut am 08. Mrz 2010, 14:15 bearbeitet]
Manek
Inventar
#30 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 13:29
Will do sir !
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#31 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 14:16
Hey, manek.

I just remembered Pink Martini (Sympathique)... one of yr Favs.

Its a GREAT demo for CD vs CDR. I have both ...

Should be FUN
Manek
Inventar
#32 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 16:15
Yeah ! Great !

Tracks "Bolero" and "Brazil"

Manek
abhi.pani
Inventar
#33 erstellt: 08. Mrz 2010, 18:59

Amp_Nut schrieb:
Abhi,

I Had a Plextor CD ( NOT DVD ) writer, and I was less than thrilled with it.

1. I compared errors aon a Disk written by the Plextor, to that written with a Sony CD writer, and the sony was just Marginally better.

The Plextor died within 24 months. The Sony gave me good service for a further 2 years.

Writing a CD at 1x will take approx 72 minutes + 33 seconds ( + writing a 20 MB TOC - table Of Content) max.

iTunes gives me the option to write at 2x... though I have read that current writers are optimised for a 8x write speed.

I would not attribute that some unknown software / hardware will write a Super disc that is better than the original. Reviewers have stopped singing that tune, and that itself is damming evidence of Bull shit.

Regarding the much hyped Gold CDRs... I remain VERY Skeptical. Note that the dye used in CDRs, Gold or any other colour is the same. The Gold is MERELY a extra COSMETIC layer on the Polycarbonate substrate.

Gold was respected in PRESSED CDs ( NOT CDRs) because Gold does not tarnish, and less prone to laser Rot. Gold COLOURED CDRS are mere ...

Infact, IMHO, a better aspect to judge CDRs is to see that the CDR passes as little light THRU it as possible, so that the Laser light is reflected back to be read by the CD mech, or absorbed.

If you read the Liner notes included with every XRCD, you will observe that they discuss choosing the Aluminium layer rather than a Gold layer, because of the better reflectivity of the former.

Manek, when you come over, for a listen, do bring along yr fav CD and its CDR avaatar.

The CDR has all the notes, but lacks the air and ambience...

I stand by my 1 minute challange.. ;)


AN,
Interesting to know that you have already tried the Plextor.
And I can also see why CDRs cannot/should not beat the original CD. However the quality of the Mitsui discs are outstanding. I dont think it has anything to do with the Gold part but in general they totally stand out compared to other run of the mill CDR in terms of sound quality. Let me see if I can find one blank disc, I will send it to you for your trial.

It may still turn out to be inferior to the original but you may require more than a minute to come to a conclusion and moreover it will sound really close to the original for most part that makes it a decent enough media to store copied CDs.


[Beitrag von abhi.pani am 08. Mrz 2010, 19:01 bearbeitet]
Arj
Inventar
#34 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2010, 04:44
the difference is in the Dye..which gives it logitivity ..as many dyes "decompose" with time.

Mitsui uses some pthalocyanine dyes while most entry level uses a lower dye. some good CDRs usee azo dyes which have a slightly longer life.
the quality if reading is improved by the quality of the polycarbonate used for making the base.

the Mitsui is apparently made from thicker higher quality polycarbonates as they are used by media cos for archiving thei content ( last from 100-300 years) and have both Silver and Gold plated cdrs

BTW My brother inlaw is a scientist with a co with is involved in this and he had explainedd this to me some time back ..dont remember the details but some interesting facts Here
Amp_Nut
Inventar
#35 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2010, 07:06
GREAT link, Arj,

Thanks !
SNV
Stammgast
#36 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2010, 10:12

Arj schrieb:


Mitsui uses some pthalocyanine dyes



Just like the HHBs that I had mentioned to you in one of my earlier posts.
They make some really good cdrs that are optimised for audio.
I have used these discs many years ago and found them to be the best.

http://hhb.co.uk/hhb/uk/hhbproducts/media/detail.asp?ID=1464

Regards
SNV
Arj
Inventar
#37 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2010, 10:49
Very true SNV..i followed up on that lead and tried calling all their offices (Distributed in india by Modi) but no one even picks up. so gave up and went for this !
Arj
Inventar
#38 erstellt: 09. Mrz 2010, 14:54

Amp_Nut schrieb:
Siva,

Each CD pressed is like a Rubber Stamp impression.

If the Rubber Stamp itself is not pristine, the stamped image will be blurred, and therefore sound poor.



AN I do remember reading on the mastering process that each Mother is used only for 4 batches after which a new "mother" must b prepared.

also that after each batch, there is some softening of the edgess on the "mother" although it is limited to 4 batches am pretty sure ther would be some differences between the 1st and the 4th.

secondly the quality and thickness of the polycarbonate also matters. if the pits are not that clear there is going to be some error in reading. while something like an EAC may approximate the data much better due to multiple passes and hence give you a better copy than original.

Just my guess


[Beitrag von Arj am 09. Mrz 2010, 14:59 bearbeitet]
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